Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - Re: Insurance Advice [was Re: Boeing Crosswind Movie] (Dwight Frye)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: Insurance Advice [was Re: Boeing Crosswind Movie] (Dale Ensing)
3. 08:24 AM - Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 09/12/07 (lee.logan@gulfstream.com)
4. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 09/12/07 (bill crothers)
5. 09:03 AM - Re: Insurance Advice [was Re: Boeing Crosswind Movie] (bill crothers)
6. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 09/12/07 (Randy Pinkston)
7. 11:58 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Discussion (again) (Robin Marks)
8. 06:39 PM - Re: Boeing Crosswind Testing Movie (text in Portuguese?) (Bill Repucci)
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Subject: | Re: Insurance Advice [was re: Boeing Crosswind Movie] |
On Wed Sep 12 18:38:57 2007, Larry Bowen wrote :
>Getting 5 hours of TW instruction will help you decide either way. I have
>no regrets with my TW.
Then again .. you can do the crazy thing I did. I partnered with a
couple of friends on a 1967 Citabria 7ECA. That ends up being a pretty
cheap way to own an airplane (if you have -good- partners, which I do
so far). I'm now at the 30-hour mark on tailwheel time, and am having
a ball. Yes, it has slowed my building while I did transition training
and got some of the various insurance requirements behind me. But boy
it sure feels good. :)
Regarding insurance (this is NOT an RV, so is not intended to be any
sort of direct comparision) we were shocked. Between the three of us
only one had any significant TW time. One of my partners had only just
over 100 hours total time, and had not flown in 18 years. SkySmith got
us a quote for just under $1100/year. Split three ways, that ends up
being pretty darned cheap. In airplane-dollars, at least.
I hope to have a non-trivial amount of TW time when I have to finally
get insurance on the RV-7. I _hope_ it'll reduce my insurance costs,
but the best "insurance" will be the experience itself (or so I firmly
believe).
BTW, the guy who had not flown in 18 years is now close to 30 hours of
tailwheel time too ... and is doing great. Having a blast. :)
-- Dwight
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Insurance Advice [was re: Boeing Crosswind Movie] |
Had similar experience to Dwight's with three way partnership in a Cessna
170A while building the RV-6A. My total time in TW is still more than I have
in tricycle gear. However, one of the influencing factors in deciding on an
RV 'A' model.was, when flying cross country with the 170A, I found myself
picking airports based on wind direction . Have landed in cross wind
conditions with the 6A that I would never have tried with the TW 170A. Maybe
the TW RV's are more mangeable in cross winds than the 170?
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dwight Frye" <dwight@openweave.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance Advice [was re: Boeing Crosswind
Movie]
>
> On Wed Sep 12 18:38:57 2007, Larry Bowen wrote :
>>Getting 5 hours of TW instruction will help you decide either way. I have
>>no regrets with my TW.
>
> Then again .. you can do the crazy thing I did. I partnered with a
> couple of friends on a 1967 Citabria 7ECA.
> so far). I'm now at the 30-hour mark on tailwheel time, and am having
> a ball. >
>> -- Dwight
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 09/12/07 |
Seems to me the best data to help someone with this decision is not who
backs tail wheels (mostly that would be guys who already decided in favor
of them) or who backs nose wheels (ditto) but to ask who would change if
they had it to do all over again. My take is that guys who haven't flown
tail wheeled aircraft have a somewhat unfounded concern about how difficult
they are to fly. Personally, I see them as different, not difficult (are
nose gear airplanes marginally easier to take off and land----probably, but
not enough to make much of a difference at this size and speed aircraft).
If there are those out there who are now flying tailwheeled RV's who would
go with a nose wheel next time, that could be useful data (and vice versa,
of course). Off the top of my head, I would guess that there are more
nose gear guys who, having flown RV's for awhile now, are sorry they didn't
go ahead with a tail wheel after all than there are tail wheel guys rueing
their decision.
I'll vote first. Tail wheel all the way and would not change. My first
was a tail wheel and now I'm building another. Hope that helps!
Great fun to think about again, regardless of your final decision. I would
personally not let a concern for the challenge of flying a tail wheeled RV
(there isn't much of one to begin with) deny me the aesthetics of a tail
wheeled aircraft (if that in fact appeals to you), its (modest) performance
benefits, nor for that matter the just plain fun of a wheel landing and
carrying the tail up half way down the runway!
Sorry for the rant---sometimes you just feel like chiming in, you know??
Lee...
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 09/12/07 |
Ditto Lee, wouldn't go back to nosewheel from TW
--- lee.logan@gulfstream.com wrote:
> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>
> Seems to me the best data to help someone with this
> decision is not who
> backs tail wheels (mostly that would be guys who
> already decided in favor
> of them) or who backs nose wheels (ditto) but to ask
> who would change if
> they had it to do all over again. My take is that
> guys who haven't flown
> tail wheeled aircraft have a somewhat unfounded
> concern about how difficult
> they are to fly. Personally, I see them as
> different, not difficult (are
> nose gear airplanes marginally easier to take off
> and land----probably, but
> not enough to make much of a difference at this size
> and speed aircraft).
>
> If there are those out there who are now flying
> tailwheeled RV's who would
> go with a nose wheel next time, that could be useful
> data (and vice versa,
> of course). Off the top of my head, I would guess
> that there are more
> nose gear guys who, having flown RV's for awhile
> now, are sorry they didn't
> go ahead with a tail wheel after all than there are
> tail wheel guys rueing
> their decision.
>
> I'll vote first. Tail wheel all the way and would
> not change. My first
> was a tail wheel and now I'm building another. Hope
> that helps!
>
> Great fun to think about again, regardless of your
> final decision. I would
> personally not let a concern for the challenge of
> flying a tail wheeled RV
> (there isn't much of one to begin with) deny me the
> aesthetics of a tail
> wheeled aircraft (if that in fact appeals to you),
> its (modest) performance
> benefits, nor for that matter the just plain fun of
> a wheel landing and
> carrying the tail up half way down the runway!
>
> Sorry for the rant---sometimes you just feel like
> chiming in, you know??
>
> Lee...
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Insurance Advice [was re: Boeing Crosswind Movie] |
I find crosswind in TWs no big deal due to short wing.
Don't let that sway you. Reno
--- Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Had similar experience to Dwight's with three way
> partnership in a Cessna
> 170A while building the RV-6A. My total time in TW
> is still more than I have
> in tricycle gear. However, one of the influencing
> factors in deciding on an
> RV 'A' model.was, when flying cross country with the
> 170A, I found myself
> picking airports based on wind direction . Have
> landed in cross wind
> conditions with the 6A that I would never have tried
> with the TW 170A. Maybe
> the TW RV's are more mangeable in cross winds than
> the 170?
> Dale Ensing
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dwight Frye" <dwight@openweave.org>
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:11 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance Advice [was
> re: Boeing Crosswind
> Movie]
>
>
> Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
> >
> > On Wed Sep 12 18:38:57 2007, Larry Bowen wrote :
> >>Getting 5 hours of TW instruction will help you
> decide either way. I have
> >>no regrets with my TW.
> >
> > Then again .. you can do the crazy thing I did. I
> partnered with a
> > couple of friends on a 1967 Citabria 7ECA.
> > so far). I'm now at the 30-hour mark on tailwheel
> time, and am having
> > a ball. >
> >> -- Dwight
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 09/12/07 |
Flown both ,,,have the A & as for flying & looks tw all the way, but on the
ground, not counting looks there is no better way to go than an A!!!!!!!!
resale,,ins. Short field,,being able to see [taxi],cleaning underside ect.
Ect. An A is like landing a 150 cessna,,can't get any better! Just look out
for the rabbits! Ha..ha Randy Pinkston 705rp 390 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill
crothers
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Re: RVSouthEast-List Digest: 11 Msgs -
09/12/07
Ditto Lee, wouldn't go back to nosewheel from TW
--- lee.logan@gulfstream.com wrote:
> lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>
> Seems to me the best data to help someone with this
> decision is not who
> backs tail wheels (mostly that would be guys who
> already decided in favor
> of them) or who backs nose wheels (ditto) but to ask
> who would change if
> they had it to do all over again. My take is that
> guys who haven't flown
> tail wheeled aircraft have a somewhat unfounded
> concern about how difficult
> they are to fly. Personally, I see them as
> different, not difficult (are
> nose gear airplanes marginally easier to take off
> and land----probably, but
> not enough to make much of a difference at this size
> and speed aircraft).
>
> If there are those out there who are now flying
> tailwheeled RV's who would
> go with a nose wheel next time, that could be useful
> data (and vice versa,
> of course). Off the top of my head, I would guess
> that there are more
> nose gear guys who, having flown RV's for awhile
> now, are sorry they didn't
> go ahead with a tail wheel after all than there are
> tail wheel guys rueing
> their decision.
>
> I'll vote first. Tail wheel all the way and would
> not change. My first
> was a tail wheel and now I'm building another. Hope
> that helps!
>
> Great fun to think about again, regardless of your
> final decision. I would
> personally not let a concern for the challenge of
> flying a tail wheeled RV
> (there isn't much of one to begin with) deny me the
> aesthetics of a tail
> wheeled aircraft (if that in fact appeals to you),
> its (modest) performance
> benefits, nor for that matter the just plain fun of
> a wheel landing and
> carrying the tail up half way down the runway!
>
> Sorry for the rant---sometimes you just feel like
> chiming in, you know??
>
> Lee...
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,
news, photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
Message 7
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Subject: | Tail Wheel Discussion (again) |
Ok, I am going give a shout out for the Sissy Wheel pilots like
me that may be discouraged from saying they PREFER the A models for
whatever reason. My first RV was a -4. I had zero time in a TW so I
received instruction in a Citabria for the requisite number of hours to
get proficient in both three point & wheel landing for both regular &
X-wind situations. I then went on to add 200+ landings in my -4 which
should be enough to get a few of them right. The issue with my -4 was
W&B as I was not able to take any of my fat ass golf buddies with me for
trips or local tours so I decided to get a side by side plane. I took a
flight in a friend's 6A and was sold on the performance Vans built into
that great design. I chose to buy a 6A and specifically selected the A
for its overall ground and landing characteristics. While I became
proficient at landing the -4 in most conditions I look like a genius
landing the 6A because of the nose wheel. I basically never land with a
bounce, hop or generally even a chirp. Often I can set the mains down so
gently that I feel the wheels start spinning as they make contact with
the runway. Now I did not instantly become a better pilot when I started
flying the A model? No the A's were just a lot easier for ME to land.
And personally it's just as fun holding the nose wheel off the ground as
long as I can as it was flying the tail until I ran out of lift.
I tend to give a lot of "never been in a small plane" people
local tours and I take pride in making their first landing something
other than the controlled crash that they expect and for me that is best
accomplished in an A design.
All that being said I am considering an RV-8A with a military
paint scheme and It just does not look right in a A configuration. The
things guys will do for good looks!
Robin Marks
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 375 hours
RV-10"A" First Flight Q1/Q2 2008
Message 8
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Subject: | Boeing Crosswind Testing Movie (text in Portuguese?) |
Robbie,
Build the airplane you want, not the one others want for themselves.
I'm a low time pilot, about 350 hours, when I first flew my -9. (For
the record, this is a -9, not a -9A.) 150 of those hours were in
various tail wheel aircraft. The insurance requirement was all of three
hours in any side-by-side RV before my first flight.
There was no $800 insurance premium for me. Heck, as near as I can
there was no tail wheel premium attached to this plane.
As for learning how to fly a tail wheel, I'll let you in on a little
secrete, it isn't any harder than learning to land an airplane. 10
hours and you will be ready to solo. Does the endorsement make you a
better pilot? Not in my opinion. What makes someone a good pilot is
their judgment, not how good they are with their feet.
Just remember, when landing a tail wheel airplane the main thing is to
keep it straight, no matter what else happens, just keep it straight and
all will work out.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Walter
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Boeing Crosswind Testing Movie (text in
Portuguese?)
--> <dale1rv6@comcast.net>
Insurance can be $800 or more higher for the tailwheel. Get a quote
before you build. Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robbie
Walker
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Boeing Crosswind Testing Movie (text in
Portuguese?)
<robbie@atlanticpkg.com>
Ed,
Thanks for both the excellent advice and the relevant anecdotes. Now
I have a headache! <grin>
But seriously, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm struggling with.
On one hand, I like the looks of the conventional gear and it's my
understanding (having NEVER flown in or landed one...) that they are
better on grass, worse on pavement. I've also been told that if you
really know what you are doing, they are no harder to land. But I've
also seen incident reports where many much more experienced pilots
than myself ground-looping them or worse. Not that the tricycle are
immune to landing issues... what plane is?
Also, for everyone else, I'm NOT trying to get this debate started up
again, I'm just thinking out loud.
Do Not Archive
Robbie Walker
On Sep 12, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Robbie, like most decisions, there are pros and cons. I have flown
> both taildraggers and nose gear in and out of grass and paved
> strips. In my advancing years, I find a nose wheel lessens
> apprehension in coping with adverse wind conditions on landing.
> I found on one emergency aborted takeoff (got airborne and put it
> back down on a 2200 foot strip) that the nose wheel enabled me to
> apply maximum braking (left rubber for 300 ft - no lock up, just a
> good grip) which in a tail dragger would have end up on its nose
> (or back). On the other hand, as several recent incidents have
> shown landing an Rv- on its nose gear can result on your back as
> well. The bottom line is neither is going to save you from a
> really screwed up landing - so don't make one {:>).
>
> Getting viewpoints on each is good approach, but ultimately you
> need to go with what You want and feel comfortable with -
> regardless of other viewpoints on your choice. If you have not
> yet, try to get a ride in an RV both with and without nose gear and
> see if one appeals to you more than the other - because when its
> said and done, appeal is going to be a large driver in your decision.
>
> Good luck
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbie Walker"
> <robbie@atlanticpkg.com>
> To: <rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Boeing Crosswind Testing Movie (text
> in Portuguese?)
>
>
>> <robbie@atlanticpkg.com>
>>
>> Sweet... love the Boston at the beginning.
>> I'm still at the "mental" stage of things, so my decisions seem to
>> vacillate.
>> I was leaning towards a 7 for my wife... but she really doesn't
>> like to fly at all so I'm back to leaning towards the 8.
>> I was leaning towards tricycle but now I'm at conventional.
>>
>> I guess I need to finish getting my garage cleaned out now that
>> we moved in last week and get the empennage ordered.
>>
>> Robbie Walker
>>
>> On Sep 12, 2007, at 10:41 AM, Dale Walter wrote:
>>
>>> <dale1rv6@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Nice video Robbie, thanks for sharing. Here is one from
>>> yesterday in our
>>> RV6a with a 2 turn spin, instrument panel is included:
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0ujjspDGXM
>>>
>>>
>>> This is dedicated to Bert M in Orlando, who inspired me. Do not
>>> archive
>>>
>>> Happy landings,
>>> Dale
>>> RV6a 920 hrs, large rudder
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <robbie@atlanticpkg.com>
>>>
>>> This may be old hat to some of y'all, but I found it quite
>>> interesting. Definitely making me re-open the conventional vs.
>>> tricycle debate with myself.
>>>
>>> http://www.motionbox.com/video/player/a09addb11a1e28#1
>>>
>>> Robbie Walker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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