Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Ron Schreck)
2. 02:54 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Dale Ensing)
3. 03:33 AM - RV profile (Dale Ensing)
4. 04:35 AM - Re: RV profile (Ron Schreck)
5. 04:55 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Ron Schreck)
6. 04:55 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Bret Smith)
7. 05:05 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Steve Crimm)
8. 05:30 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Ron Schreck)
9. 05:43 AM - Re: Lots of Questions (Bret Smith)
10. 05:53 AM - MoGas Use was RV profile (Ed Anderson)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: Insurance for First Flight (Rick Gray)
12. 09:05 AM - Re: RV profile (dougpflyrv@aol.com)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: Insurance for First Flight (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
14. 02:18 PM - Re: Insurance for First Flight (Dale Ensing)
15. 02:43 PM - Re: Insurance for First Flight (Ed Anderson)
16. 03:43 PM - Re: Lots of Questions (Tad Sargent)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lots of Questions |
MessageSteve,
Comments imbedded below. I think it is great that you are putting so
much thought into it. Just one caution: Don't underbuild the airplane.
If you EVER think you MAY want to do formation or aerobatics, DO NOT get
a -9 and DO get a constant speed prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Crimm
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Nothing like a good challenge...
Wants and wishes
1. IFR capable for x-country
*** Any RV will do.
2. 180 HP
*** Plenty of HP for what you want to do. 160 HP would also be fine.
They all burn almost the same amount of fuel at normal cruise speeds.
3. Want to be able to burn car gas
***Must be carbureted. A few use car gas with fuel injection but it
is not recommended. Mogas is difficult to find at most airfields but if
you are into carrying your own you can save some $$$. Lost of people
use Mogas in one tank for cruise flight only.
4. Want slider with tip up option
*** Good choice. The tip ups are a pain in the neck in wet weather.
5. Between the wife and I we weigh 420 lbs ( fat asses...my wife just
read this and says she has a mature ass, mine is fat)
*** Tandem RV's (4 & 8) will have CG issues with two mature asses and
baggage. Think you are headed to an RV-7 or -9.
6. Want to carry a reasonable amount of baggage.
***Build it light and you will have enough room for everything. Most
run out of space before hitting max gross weight.
7. Tri Gear
***Not socially acceptable in some crouds, but if you are secure in
your manliness and stay away from the high testosterone formation crowd
you may slide by. (Just kidding. But don't think that this is
necessarily a safer option. It seems that more nose draggers end up on
thier backs than tail draggers.)
8. No acrobatics
***Not with the -9, but any other 2-place RV will do it when you get
the urge and momma aint looking.
9. No formation (been there done that in helicopters in the Army)
***Wow! Didn't know there was an age limit on fun! But hey, this is
your airplane. ;-)
10. Wing leveler coupled to GPS (Alt hold would be really nice)
***Wing leveler is a MUST for IFR and alt hold is so nice that it is
almost a MUST as well.
11. $80,000 budget ( now everyone laughs, he wants what for 80K)
***I'm not laughing. You can really do it for $80K.
12. Elec Flaps and trim
***Agree
13. All the RV mods and stuff I need, that I don't know I should have
or look for to be a happy RV'er.
*** At least one electronic ignition. EFIS
14. Constant speed prop
***Not necessary for what you plan to do with the airplane and the
first thing you should forget if you are approaching the $80K ceiling.
A fixed pitch with 180 HP will easily get you off any strip with a full
load. It will climb a bit slower but cruise speed will not suffer and
you will save a few pounds that you can use for more baggage.
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 20:08
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
There is an RV for you. Just decide what you want to do with it...
cross country, IFR, acro, formation.. all of the above! Seriously, do
an honest evalution of what you want from an airplane then let us bend
your ear. the ball is in your court; what do you want/need to do?
Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Repucci
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
If you are not into acro, you might want to look at a -9A. They
make a great X-C plane, haul a ton, are just about as fast as the 6's
and 7's and cost more than a 6 but typically less than a 7.
As for bending our ears, everything you read about them is true.
That's why there are so many of the things flying.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Crimm
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:29 PM
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Gentlemen and Ladies,
And I will use the gentlemen term loosely.
I finalizing the sale of my Europa today and have been looking at
lots of ads on Barnstormers and Trade A Plane for an RV-6A or RV-7A to
fill that soon to be vacant spot in my hangar. Needless to say I have
lots of questions and don't think it would be fair to the group to ask
all my "want to be" questions on the forum.
My final goal is an aircraft that will be easy for my wife and grand
daughter to learn to fly in and that will let me do light IFR here in
the southeast. Besides all the normal go fast and looks great aspects
of these aircraft.
So with that said, who or whom would like to step up to the plate
and let me bend their ear about these wonderful aircraft you all
operate.
Thanks,
Steve Crimm
Roswell, GA
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lots of Questions |
MessageSteve,
Need to make a comment about Ron's input on the constant speed prop and
baggage. In my 6A the constant speed prop. actually allows me to carry
more baggage because without it the CG would be out of range with
100lbs. in the baggage area.
BTW my 6A matches your list except for IFR. And here I agree with Ron's
statement about 'if you ever thing you might' . Have been frustrated
more than once when long planned trips were cancelled when light IFR
would have made it possible.
Dale Ensing
Ron Schreck said:
Constant speed prop
***Not necessary for what you plan to do with the airplane and the
first thing you should forget if you are approaching the $80K ceiling.
A fixed pitch with 180 HP will easily get you off any strip with a full
load. It will climb a bit slower but cruise speed will not suffer and
you will save a few pounds that you can use for more baggage.
Message 3
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Ron Schreck
Could you please enlighten me on the reason not to use mogas in fuel
injection? Is the problem with compatibility of the mogas and the
injection system? Or the vapor pressure issue of mogas leading to hard
hot re-starts with fuel injection?
Dale
"3. Want to be able to burn car gas
***Must be carbureted. A few use car gas with fuel injection but it is
not recommended. Mogas is difficult to find at most airfields but if
you are into carrying your own you can save some $$$. Lost of people
use Mogas in one tank for cruise flight only."
Message 4
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Dale, Steve and others,
Dale brings up some valid questions about mogas. I have not even
thought about useing it in my IO-360 but others have with varying
success. Here are a few clips from the RV List which are of interest.
If you want to see more just put "mogas" in the
Matronic's search enging and read on.
To Ed Anderson: Sorry if this brings back bad memories!
Ron Schreck
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Auto fuel
Date: Jan 28, 1998
I announced to a friend today that I intended to use auto fuel in one
tank
of my RV. He said that he intended to do the same thing until he found
that
one of our RV group had run a test wherein he put a couple of pieces
of
aluminum with Proseal sandwiched between them into a container of
mogas and
left it there for 2 years. At the end of this time, he took the test
piece
out and found they came apart easily and the Proseal could be scraped
off
with your fingernail almost like chewing gum. He believes that Proseal
is
degraded by mogas. Damn, avgas costs double what mogas does bringing
to
$3.40 per gallon locally.
Sloshing compound was not used.
Any comments or experiences out there ?.............Austin.
----- OFrom: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: mogas (in injected motors)
<< If you run mogas in IO or TIO Lycomings, what
happens? >>
I can't say what will happen in a turbo motor (there could be an
octane
deficiency), but I run mogas in my Rocket (IO-540) all the time. No
problems
in the air, but the injector sure doesn't like that mogas while on
the ground-
lots of vapor lock. I keep 100LL in the left tank for ground ops and
climb.
Check six!
Mark
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Gas Fires - They Happen!
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Not hearsay, it Happened!
Speaking from REAL WORLD experience, you can! and I did! ignite a
gasoline
fire while filling my RV from "Approved" plastic containers. I
won't go
into the details again as they are in the archieves. However, I
ended up
with 5 fire locations going at once. One out the wing tank
refilling hole,
one on the wing where the fuel had spilt as I - started by the
"Whomp!" of
igniting gas vapors had pulled back from the aircraft, one on the
asphalt
under the wing, one flaming grandly from the "Approved" race
funnel with
soaked paper filter cartage in its center and of course those
flames from
the mouth of the 5 gallon "Approved" plastic gasoline container.
Fortunately, I managed to get them all out without damage to
aircraft or
self although I was quite busy there for about 90 seconds. The
plastic
funnel and fuel tank will never be the same thought.
In short, I had used plastic containers for years for lawnmowers,
weed
wackers, etc., etc and never had one problem with static
electricity
igniting the vapors from the pouring gasoline. In all honesty, in
reflecting
back on the incident, I believe I may have momentarily broken
contact
between the 5 gallon container and the large plastic funnel as I
was
pouring - which may have been factor which led to the spark which
ignitied
the fuel vapors. However, seeing your beauty on fire and with
images of
this fireball with my RV (and possibly me) at the center was
enough to make
me swear off of refueling from plastic containers. I admit I did
it once
more when no other alternative was available, after making as
certain as
possible that all static charges were grounded, but I no longer do
it as a
routine practice.
After relating my incident to the list, one individual related an
incident
about a friend who was refueling a high wing aircraft from a
plastic
container and had the fuel ignite. He, unfortunately, was dosed
with flaming
fuel causing serious burns. So, while the incidents may be rare,
they do
happen.
On the other hand, I know others who have refueled for years from
plastic
containers and had no problems and from that perspective, I would
not condem
the idea out of hand. But, if I were to do it as routine, I
would use
metal containers and ensure they were grounded to the aircraft.
But, for
me, once was enough and I use approved aircraft methods of
transfer of fuel
(i.e pump or truck). FWIW
Nearly singed, but not burnt
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews, NC
Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 7:33 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: RV profile
Ron Schreck
Could you please enlighten me on the reason not to use mogas in fuel
injection? Is the problem with compatibility of the mogas and the
injection system? Or the vapor pressure issue of mogas leading to hard
hot re-starts with fuel injection?
Dale
"3. Want to be able to burn car gas
***Must be carbureted. A few use car gas with fuel injection but it
is not recommended. Mogas is difficult to find at most airfields but if
you are into carrying your own you can save some $$$. Lost of people
use Mogas in one tank for cruise flight only."
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lots of Questions |
MessageDale, Steve,
Good point, Dale. Dan Checkoway has a great data base
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
If you click on the N-number of any airplane listed it will take you to
a page where you can enter weights for a custom loading scenario.
Steve, this is a great place to start. Very informative. Actually, Dan
Checkoway's entire web site is one of the most informative on the web.
If you end up building a RV-7 you should buy his CD.
Ron Schreck
PS: Steve, where do you live? You should find some RVers near you and
sit and chat for awhile.
--- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
Need to make a comment about Ron's input on the constant speed prop
and baggage. In my 6A the constant speed prop. actually allows me to
carry more baggage because without it the CG would be out of range with
100lbs. in the baggage area.
BTW my 6A matches your list except for IFR. And here I agree with
Ron's statement about 'if you ever thing you might' . Have been
frustrated more than once when long planned trips were cancelled when
light IFR would have made it possible.
Dale Ensing
Ron Schreck said:
Constant speed prop
***Not necessary for what you plan to do with the airplane and the
first thing you should forget if you are approaching the $80K ceiling.
A fixed pitch with 180 HP will easily get you off any strip with a full
load. It will climb a bit slower but cruise speed will not suffer and
you will save a few pounds that you can use for more baggage.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lots of Questions |
MessageSteve,
You have perfectly described my RV-9...all except the cost. Check out
http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html
Bret Smith
RV-9A "Fuselage"
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Crimm
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Nothing like a good challenge...
Wants and wishes
1. IFR capable for x-country
2. 180 HP
3. Want to be able to burn car gas
4. Want slider with tip up option
5. Between the wife and I we weigh 420 lbs ( fat asses...my wife just
read this and says she has a mature ass, mine is fat)
6. Want to carry a reasonable amount of baggage
7. Tri Gear
8. No acrobatics
9. No formation (been there done that in helicopters in the Army)
10. Wing leveler coupled to GPS (Alt hold would be really nice)
11. $80,000 budget ( now everyone laughs, he wants what for 80K)
12. Elec Flaps and trim
13. All the RV mods and stuff I need, that I don't know I should have
or look for to be a happy RV'er
14. Constant speed prop
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 20:08
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
There is an RV for you. Just decide what you want to do with it...
cross country, IFR, acro, formation.. all of the above! Seriously, do
an honest evalution of what you want from an airplane then let us bend
your ear. the ball is in your court; what do you want/need to do?
Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Repucci
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
If you are not into acro, you might want to look at a -9A. They
make a great X-C plane, haul a ton, are just about as fast as the 6's
and 7's and cost more than a 6 but typically less than a 7.
As for bending our ears, everything you read about them is true.
That's why there are so many of the things flying.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Crimm
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:29 PM
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Gentlemen and Ladies,
And I will use the gentlemen term loosely.
I finalizing the sale of my Europa today and have been looking at
lots of ads on Barnstormers and Trade A Plane for an RV-6A or RV-7A to
fill that soon to be vacant spot in my hangar. Needless to say I have
lots of questions and don't think it would be fair to the group to ask
all my "want to be" questions on the forum.
My final goal is an aircraft that will be easy for my wife and grand
daughter to learn to fly in and that will let me do light IFR here in
the southeast. Besides all the normal go fast and looks great aspects
of these aircraft.
So with that said, who or whom would like to step up to the plate
and let me bend their ear about these wonderful aircraft you all
operate.
Thanks,
Steve Crimm
Roswell, GA
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Lots of Questions |
I am located in Roswell, GA, just north of Atlanta.
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 06:56
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Dale, Steve,
Good point, Dale. Dan Checkoway has a great data base
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
If you click on the N-number of any airplane listed it will take you to a
page where you can enter weights for a custom loading scenario. Steve, this
is a great place to start. Very informative. Actually, Dan Checkoway's
entire web site is one of the most informative on the web. If you end up
building a RV-7 you should buy his CD.
Ron Schreck
PS: Steve, where do you live? You should find some RVers near you and sit
and chat for awhile.
--- Original Message -----
From: Dale <mailto:densing@carolina.rr.com> Ensing
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
Need to make a comment about Ron's input on the constant speed prop and
baggage. In my 6A the constant speed prop. actually allows me to carry more
baggage because without it the CG would be out of range with 100lbs. in the
baggage area.
BTW my 6A matches your list except for IFR. And here I agree with Ron's
statement about 'if you ever thing you might' . Have been frustrated more
than once when long planned trips were cancelled when light IFR would have
made it possible.
Dale Ensing
Ron Schreck said:
Constant speed prop
***Not necessary for what you plan to do with the airplane and the first
thing you should forget if you are approaching the $80K ceiling. A fixed
pitch with 180 HP will easily get you off any strip with a full load. It
will climb a bit slower but cruise speed will not suffer and you will save a
few pounds that you can use for more baggage.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lots of Questions |
MessageSteve,
There are 25 RV owner withing 25 miles of you. Go here to find them:
http://www.rvproject.com/registry/rvfinder.jsp
Ron Schreck
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Crimm
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
I am located in Roswell, GA, just north of Atlanta.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 06:56
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Dale, Steve,
Good point, Dale. Dan Checkoway has a great data base
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
If you click on the N-number of any airplane listed it will take you
to a page where you can enter weights for a custom loading scenario.
Steve, this is a great place to start. Very informative. Actually, Dan
Checkoway's entire web site is one of the most informative on the web.
If you end up building a RV-7 you should buy his CD.
Ron Schreck
PS: Steve, where do you live? You should find some RVers near you
and sit and chat for awhile.
--- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
Need to make a comment about Ron's input on the constant speed prop
and baggage. In my 6A the constant speed prop. actually allows me to
carry more baggage because without it the CG would be out of range with
100lbs. in the baggage area.
BTW my 6A matches your list except for IFR. And here I agree with
Ron's statement about 'if you ever thing you might' . Have been
frustrated more than once when long planned trips were cancelled when
light IFR would have made it possible.
Dale Ensing
Ron Schreck said:
Constant speed prop
***Not necessary for what you plan to do with the airplane and
the first thing you should forget if you are approaching the $80K
ceiling. A fixed pitch with 180 HP will easily get you off any strip
with a full load. It will climb a bit slower but cruise speed will not
suffer and you will save a few pounds that you can use for more baggage.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lots of Questions |
MessageSteve, I work in Sandy Springs as does Mike Stewart. Perhaps we
can meet for lunch one day and visit.
Bret Smith
RV-9A "Fuselage"
Blue Ridge, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Schreck
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
There are 25 RV owner withing 25 miles of you. Go here to find them:
http://www.rvproject.com/registry/rvfinder.jsp
Ron Schreck
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Crimm
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
I am located in Roswell, GA, just north of Atlanta.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 06:56
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Dale, Steve,
Good point, Dale. Dan Checkoway has a great data base
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/
If you click on the N-number of any airplane listed it will take you
to a page where you can enter weights for a custom loading scenario.
Steve, this is a great place to start. Very informative. Actually, Dan
Checkoway's entire web site is one of the most informative on the web.
If you end up building a RV-7 you should buy his CD.
Ron Schreck
PS: Steve, where do you live? You should find some RVers near you
and sit and chat for awhile.
--- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
Need to make a comment about Ron's input on the constant speed
prop and baggage. In my 6A the constant speed prop. actually allows me
to carry more baggage because without it the CG would be out of range
with 100lbs. in the baggage area.
BTW my 6A matches your list except for IFR. And here I agree with
Ron's statement about 'if you ever thing you might' . Have been
frustrated more than once when long planned trips were cancelled when
light IFR would have made it possible.
Dale Ensing
Ron Schreck said:
Constant speed prop
***Not necessary for what you plan to do with the airplane and
the first thing you should forget if you are approaching the $80K
ceiling. A fixed pitch with 180 HP will easily get you off any strip
with a full load. It will climb a bit slower but cruise speed will not
suffer and you will save a few pounds that you can use for more baggage.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 10
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I normally use 100LL even though my rotary's spark plugs would prefer
87 No-lead. Some of the concerns regarding use of Mogas are:
1. Availability - seldom available at airports
2. Different Mixtures in different parts of the country to comply with
state decrees.
3. Use of ethanol in various amounts in some areas and its potential
effect on fuel system
4. A number of additives in auto fuel that might cause deposits in the
fuel system
5. Lower vapor pressure making it more conducive to vapor lock
6. The not insignificant hazard of carting around and pouring in
gasoline into your tanks (see archives or below for my hair raising fire
incident)
The only reasons I can think of to use mogas is
1. Lower price (probably the prime motivation)
2. No lead deposits on spark plugs (or elsewhere)
3. More environmentally friendly.
Now if it were readily available, I would probably fill one tank with
Mogas and the other (for take off and landing) with 100LL.
FWIW
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Schreck
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: RV profile
Dale, Steve and others,
Dale brings up some valid questions about mogas. I have not
even thought about useing it in my IO-360 but others have with varying
success. Here are a few clips from the RV List which are of interest.
If you want to see more just put "mogas" in the
Matronic's search enging and read on.
To Ed Anderson: Sorry if this brings back bad memories!
Ron Schreck
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Auto fuel
Date: Jan 28, 1998
I announced to a friend today that I intended to use auto fuel in
one tank
of my RV. He said that he intended to do the same thing until he
found that
one of our RV group had run a test wherein he put a couple of pieces
of
aluminum with Proseal sandwiched between them into a container of
mogas and
left it there for 2 years. At the end of this time, he took the test
piece
out and found they came apart easily and the Proseal could be
scraped off
with your fingernail almost like chewing gum. He believes that
Proseal is
degraded by mogas. Damn, avgas costs double what mogas does bringing
to
$3.40 per gallon locally.
Sloshing compound was not used.
Any comments or experiences out there
?.............Austin.
----- O From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: mogas (in injected motors)
<< If you run mogas in IO or TIO Lycomings, what
happens? >>
I can't say what will happen in a turbo motor (there could be an
octane
deficiency), but I run mogas in my Rocket (IO-540) all the time.
No problems
in the air, but the injector sure doesn't like that mogas while on
the ground-
lots of vapor lock. I keep 100LL in the left tank for ground ops
and climb.
Check six!
Mark
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Gas Fires - They Happen!
Date: Mar 25, 2002
Not hearsay, it Happened!
Speaking from REAL WORLD experience, you can! and I did! ignite
a gasoline
fire while filling my RV from "Approved" plastic containers. I
won't go
into the details again as they are in the archieves. However,
I ended up
with 5 fire locations going at once. One out the wing tank
refilling hole,
one on the wing where the fuel had spilt as I - started by the
"Whomp!" of
igniting gas vapors had pulled back from the aircraft, one on
the asphalt
under the wing, one flaming grandly from the "Approved" race
funnel with
soaked paper filter cartage in its center and of course those
flames from
the mouth of the 5 gallon "Approved" plastic gasoline container.
Fortunately, I managed to get them all out without damage to
aircraft or
self although I was quite busy there for about 90 seconds. The
plastic
funnel and fuel tank will never be the same thought.
In short, I had used plastic containers for years for
lawnmowers, weed
wackers, etc., etc and never had one problem with static
electricity
igniting the vapors from the pouring gasoline. In all honesty,
in reflecting
back on the incident, I believe I may have momentarily broken
contact
between the 5 gallon container and the large plastic funnel as I
was
pouring - which may have been factor which led to the spark
which ignitied
the fuel vapors. However, seeing your beauty on fire and with
images of
this fireball with my RV (and possibly me) at the center was
enough to make
me swear off of refueling from plastic containers. I admit I
did it once
more when no other alternative was available, after making as
certain as
possible that all static charges were grounded, but I no longer
do it as a
routine practice.
After relating my incident to the list, one individual related
an incident
about a friend who was refueling a high wing aircraft from a
plastic
container and had the fuel ignite. He, unfortunately, was dosed
with flaming
fuel causing serious burns. So, while the incidents may be
rare, they do
happen.
On the other hand, I know others who have refueled for years
from plastic
containers and had no problems and from that perspective, I
would not condem
the idea out of hand. But, if I were to do it as routine, I
would use
metal containers and ensure they were grounded to the aircraft.
But, for
me, once was enough and I use approved aircraft methods of
transfer of fuel
(i.e pump or truck). FWIW
Nearly singed, but not burnt
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Matthews, NC
Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 7:33 AM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: RV profile
Ron Schreck
Could you please enlighten me on the reason not to use mogas in fuel
injection? Is the problem with compatibility of the mogas and the
injection system? Or the vapor pressure issue of mogas leading to hard
hot re-starts with fuel injection?
Dale
"3. Want to be able to burn car gas
***Must be carbureted. A few use car gas with fuel injection but it
is not recommended. Mogas is difficult to find at most airfields but if
you are into carrying your own you can save some $$$. Lost of people
use Mogas in one tank for cruise flight only."
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance for First Flight |
Hey Guys,
Another data point on Nation Air. I 'had' my insurance with them for
quite a few RV's over the past 5 or 6 years. Yup....they were great as
long as they received my premium. They mailed me out a new bill for each
RV....I sent them a check and all was well. No problem....right up until
the engine quit on the HR that I 'owned' for about 5 minutes. I had a
LOT of trouble getting them to pay out....then they tried to DOUBLE my
premium and NOT provide any hull on the next plane. I spoke with them at
great length about it and they had no explanation other than 'oh
well...sorry....maybe it will get better after a few years'.
I went to 'Mac' over at AUA and told him everything that happened with
the engine out and Nation Air and he covered me full hull with a good
'normal' rate right out of the box with the next airplane with ZERO hrs
time in type (RV10). Oh yea....it was still with AIG who Nation Air was
'blaming' for my 'new rates'.
Let it be known that I am NOT 'putting down' Nation Air....just passing
on a few facts so others can make up their own mind.
Rick at the Buffalo Farm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Greg,
I too have been pleased with NationAir. Contact is Jenny Estes
877.475.5860. Like you, I had construction insurance with Avemco but
they would not insure the first flight.
When I made my first flight, NationAir wrote the insurance with AIG.
Something I never could understand was that AIG would not insure the
"test pilot" I had arranged for the first flight who had a lot more time
in RVs then I did and was a CFI. They would only insure me and no
passengers until the Phase 1 was flown off.
Last year NationAir switched me to Global Aerospace because of price.
Thankfully I've never had to make a claim so can't comment on that end
of the service.
One other important point, are you aware of the implications of under
insuring the hull? Also, once you contact one of the insurance agents
and get a quote, the competions for your business ends. All other agents
will be blocked by the insurance companies to quote on your needs.
The RVlist archive has some good info on insurance if you want more.
http://www.matronics.com/search/
Dale Ensing
We have had very good service from NationAir.
Multiple planes and first flights.
James
It looks like I have 4 companies to call, AIG, AUA, Falcon, and
Ace Aviation.
Greg
RV-7A
Finishing wiring
Message 12
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I MAY BE WRONG, BUT CHECK WITH SUPERIOR. I THINK I READ THAT THEY HAD AN INJECTED
360 THAT USES MOGAS.
DOUG PRESTON
N372RV
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Ensing <densing@carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 5:33 am
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: RV profile
Ron Schreck
?
Could you please enlighten me on the reason not to use mogas in fuel injection?
Is the problem with compatibility of the mogas and the injection system? Or the
vapor pressure issue of mogas leading to hard hot re-starts with fuel injection?
Dale
?
"3. Want to be able to burn?car gas
***Must be carbureted.? A few use car gas with fuel injection but it is not recommended.?
Mogas is difficult to find at most airfields but if you are into carrying
your own you can save some $$$.? Lost of people use Mogas in one tank for
cruise flight only."
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance for First Flight |
Rick, I am due for a renewal with Nation Air next month and this is
certainly not what a policy holder wants to here. I paid $1775 last year
for 70K hull coverage on my RV6-A through Global.
Nation Air had me through AIG previously but Global beat them in
coverage and price last renewal. Having the "Big Fan" up front quit is
bad enough......you certainly don't want your agent to compound the
pain.
Tom in Ohio (10G)
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Gray
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Hey Guys,
Another data point on Nation Air. I 'had' my insurance with them for
quite a few RV's over the past 5 or 6 years. Yup....they were great as
long as they received my premium. They mailed me out a new bill for each
RV....I sent them a check and all was well. No problem....right up until
the engine quit on the HR that I 'owned' for about 5 minutes. I had a
LOT of trouble getting them to pay out....then they tried to DOUBLE my
premium and NOT provide any hull on the next plane. I spoke with them at
great length about it and they had no explanation other than 'oh
well...sorry....maybe it will get better after a few years'.
I went to 'Mac' over at AUA and told him everything that happened with
the engine out and Nation Air and he covered me full hull with a good
'normal' rate right out of the box with the next airplane with ZERO hrs
time in type (RV10). Oh yea....it was still with AIG who Nation Air was
'blaming' for my 'new rates'.
Let it be known that I am NOT 'putting down' Nation Air....just
passing on a few facts so others can make up their own mind.
Rick at the Buffalo Farm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Greg,
I too have been pleased with NationAir. Contact is Jenny Estes
877.475.5860. Like you, I had construction insurance with Avemco but
they would not insure the first flight.
When I made my first flight, NationAir wrote the insurance with AIG.
Something I never could understand was that AIG would not insure the
"test pilot" I had arranged for the first flight who had a lot more time
in RVs then I did and was a CFI. They would only insure me and no
passengers until the Phase 1 was flown off.
Last year NationAir switched me to Global Aerospace because of
price. Thankfully I've never had to make a claim so can't comment on
that end of the service.
One other important point, are you aware of the implications of
under insuring the hull? Also, once you contact one of the insurance
agents and get a quote, the competions for your business ends. All other
agents will be blocked by the insurance companies to quote on your
needs.
The RVlist archive has some good info on insurance if you want more.
http://www.matronics.com/search/
Dale Ensing
We have had very good service from NationAir.
Multiple planes and first flights.
James
It looks like I have 4 companies to call, AIG, AUA, Falcon, and
Ace Aviation.
Greg
RV-7A
Finishing wiring
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance for First Flight |
Rick,
Would you mind telling us the reason AIG gave you for not wanting to pay
the claim on the HR you 'owned for about 5 minutes'?
Also, since insurance rates and payment of claims are determined by the
underwriters at the insurance company and not the agents such as Nation
Air and AUA, I am interested in why you had the problem with Nation Air
while AUA wrote your new insurance with the same insurance company with
no problem.
Thanks
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Gray
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Hey Guys,
Another data point on Nation Air. I 'had' my insurance with them for
quite a few RV's over the past 5 or 6 years. Yup....they were great as
long as they received my premium. They mailed me out a new bill for each
RV....I sent them a check and all was well. No problem....right up until
the engine quit on the HR that I 'owned' for about 5 minutes. I had a
LOT of trouble getting them to pay out....then they tried to DOUBLE my
premium and NOT provide any hull on the next plane. I spoke with them at
great length about it and they had no explanation other than 'oh
well...sorry....maybe it will get better after a few years'.
I went to 'Mac' over at AUA and told him everything that happened with
the engine out and Nation Air and he covered me full hull with a good
'normal' rate right out of the box with the next airplane with ZERO hrs
time in type (RV10). Oh yea....it was still with AIG who Nation Air was
'blaming' for my 'new rates'.
Let it be known that I am NOT 'putting down' Nation Air....just
passing on a few facts so others can make up their own mind.
Rick at the Buffalo Farm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Greg,
I too have been pleased with NationAir. Contact is Jenny Estes
877.475.5860. Like you, I had construction insurance with Avemco but
they would not insure the first flight.
When I made my first flight, NationAir wrote the insurance with AIG.
Something I never could understand was that AIG would not insure the
"test pilot" I had arranged for the first flight who had a lot more time
in RVs then I did and was a CFI. They would only insure me and no
passengers until the Phase 1 was flown off.
Last year NationAir switched me to Global Aerospace because of
price. Thankfully I've never had to make a claim so can't comment on
that end of the service.
One other important point, are you aware of the implications of
under insuring the hull? Also, once you contact one of the insurance
agents and get a quote, the competions for your business ends. All other
agents will be blocked by the insurance companies to quote on your
needs.
The RVlist archive has some good info on insurance if you want more.
http://www.matronics.com/search/
Dale Ensing
We have had very good service from NationAir.
Multiple planes and first flights.
James
It looks like I have 4 companies to call, AIG, AUA, Falcon, and
Ace Aviation.
Greg
RV-7A
Finishing wiring
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance for First Flight |
Dale, don't know if this really bears on your question or not. But,
when I decided to switch from AMEVCO, I first tried through the EAA
Falcon program - not luck whatsoever getting insurance for my rotary
powered RV-6A.
I next tried SkySmith and initially thought I was going to have the same
problem. However, once He found out I had publish over a dozen articles
on the rotary engine in aircraft and was using proven components (there
is one vendor who is well recognized as haven proven rotary conversion
products), he ask me to send him a list of the published articles. I am
not certain but I believe he gained a comfort level about my knowledge
level (and the 300+ flying hours with it) with the rotary to get me
standard RV rates. In any case, the results was coverage with a $1000
reduction in premium over AMEVCO.
The latter is conjecture on my part, but I believe if you broker
personally believes you are a low or acceptable risk, then he can exert
some influence on the underwriter in getting you coverage.
I don't know, but I'll also bet the underwriters pay attention to which
brokers they get good or bad risk polices - which one's end up costing
them more in claims, etc. and that might have some bearing on why one
brokerage might get you coverage and another may not.
But, again just conjecture on my part.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Rick,
Would you mind telling us the reason AIG gave you for not wanting to
pay the claim on the HR you 'owned for about 5 minutes'?
Also, since insurance rates and payment of claims are determined by
the underwriters at the insurance company and not the agents such as
Nation Air and AUA, I am interested in why you had the problem with
Nation Air while AUA wrote your new insurance with the same insurance
company with no problem.
Thanks
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Gray
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Hey Guys,
Another data point on Nation Air. I 'had' my insurance with them for
quite a few RV's over the past 5 or 6 years. Yup....they were great as
long as they received my premium. They mailed me out a new bill for each
RV....I sent them a check and all was well. No problem....right up until
the engine quit on the HR that I 'owned' for about 5 minutes. I had a
LOT of trouble getting them to pay out....then they tried to DOUBLE my
premium and NOT provide any hull on the next plane. I spoke with them at
great length about it and they had no explanation other than 'oh
well...sorry....maybe it will get better after a few years'.
I went to 'Mac' over at AUA and told him everything that happened
with the engine out and Nation Air and he covered me full hull with a
good 'normal' rate right out of the box with the next airplane with ZERO
hrs time in type (RV10). Oh yea....it was still with AIG who Nation Air
was 'blaming' for my 'new rates'.
Let it be known that I am NOT 'putting down' Nation Air....just
passing on a few facts so others can make up their own mind.
Rick at the Buffalo Farm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Ensing
To: rvsoutheast-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Insurance for First Flight
Greg,
I too have been pleased with NationAir. Contact is Jenny Estes
877.475.5860. Like you, I had construction insurance with Avemco but
they would not insure the first flight.
When I made my first flight, NationAir wrote the insurance with
AIG. Something I never could understand was that AIG would not insure
the "test pilot" I had arranged for the first flight who had a lot more
time in RVs then I did and was a CFI. They would only insure me and no
passengers until the Phase 1 was flown off.
Last year NationAir switched me to Global Aerospace because of
price. Thankfully I've never had to make a claim so can't comment on
that end of the service.
One other important point, are you aware of the implications of
under insuring the hull? Also, once you contact one of the insurance
agents and get a quote, the competions for your business ends. All other
agents will be blocked by the insurance companies to quote on your
needs.
The RVlist archive has some good info on insurance if you want
more. http://www.matronics.com/search/
Dale Ensing
We have had very good service from NationAir.
Multiple planes and first flights.
James
It looks like I have 4 companies to call, AIG, AUA, Falcon,
and Ace Aviation.
Greg
RV-7A
Finishing wiring
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?RVSouthEast-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Lots of Questions |
Steve your options are limited to the 7A, it exceeds your needs in every
category. I would choose the CS hartzell prop for the lifting capability.
Tad Sargent
7A
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Crimm
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Nothing like a good challenge...
Wants and wishes
1. IFR capable for x-country
2. 180 HP
3. Want to be able to burn car gas
4. Want slider with tip up option
5. Between the wife and I we weigh 420 lbs ( fat asses...my wife just read
this and says she has a mature ass, mine is fat)
6. Want to carry a reasonable amount of baggage
7. Tri Gear
8. No acrobatics
9. No formation (been there done that in helicopters in the Army)
10. Wing leveler coupled to GPS (Alt hold would be really nice)
11. $80,000 budget ( now everyone laughs, he wants what for 80K)
12. Elec Flaps and trim
13. All the RV mods and stuff I need, that I don't know I should have or
look for to be a happy RV'er
14. Constant speed prop
Steve
_____
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Schreck
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 20:08
Subject: Re: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
There is an RV for you. Just decide what you want to do with it... cross
country, IFR, acro, formation.. all of the above! Seriously, do an honest
evalution of what you want from an airplane then let us bend your ear. the
ball is in your court; what do you want/need to do?
Ron Schreck
RV-8, "Miss Izzy"
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Repucci <mailto:bill@repucci.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Steve,
If you are not into acro, you might want to look at a -9A. They make a
great X-C plane, haul a ton, are just about as fast as the 6's and 7's and
cost more than a 6 but typically less than a 7.
As for bending our ears, everything you read about them is true. That's why
there are so many of the things flying.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Crimm
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: RVSouthEast-List: Lots of Questions
Gentlemen and Ladies,
And I will use the gentlemen term loosely.
I finalizing the sale of my Europa today and have been looking at lots of
ads on Barnstormers and Trade A Plane for an RV-6A or RV-7A to fill that
soon to be vacant spot in my hangar. Needless to say I have lots of
questions and don't think it would be fair to the group to ask all my "want
to be" questions on the forum.
My final goal is an aircraft that will be easy for my wife and grand
daughter to learn to fly in and that will let me do light IFR here in the
southeast. Besides all the normal go fast and looks great aspects of these
aircraft.
So with that said, who or whom would like to step up to the plate and let me
bend their ear about these wonderful aircraft you all operate.
Thanks,
Steve Crimm
Roswell, GA
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