Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:20 PM - Re: malcolm (Paul Seehafer)
2. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Speedster on floats (Paul Seehafer)
3. 02:27 PM - Re: Sea/Float Plane empty vs. gross weight considerations (Paul Seehafer)
4. 07:22 PM - Re: Sea/Float Plane empty vs. gross weight considerations (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
Message 1
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Hi Malcolm
Here's my e-mail
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
To: seaplane-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Seaplane-List: malcolm
any body got a better idea for this guy wanting heavy float
plans? Also can paul S send me an Email off list. malcolm Michigan
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AOL.com.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Speedster on floats |
Larry,
Don't let the naysayers comments sway you from your plans.
My Kitfox IV-1200 loaded with stuff has a 776 pound empty weight on Aerocet
Amphibs. So even maintaining an original 1200 pound gross weight you have
424 pounds of useful load (which is equivelent to about 70% of the Kitfoxes
empty weight on wheels, which is not shabby whatsoever). That allows me to
take a 190 pound passenger, 10 gallons of fuel (almost 3 hours range for my
912ul airplane), while weighing 175 pounds myself. When you consider you
are flying an amphibious seaplane on a whole 80 hp, that is pretty amazing.
But it really does work well. 13-14 second takeoffs at that weight.
Granted, I am running an IVO inflight adjustable prop, but even at that my
Kitfox IV makes a pretty nice, excellent performing amphibious seaplane.
The comment about it being a one seat airplane would only relate if you are
a pilot of 364 pounds. If one is that weight, it might be best to consider
something larger, or limit your Kitfox IV flying to solo. But think about
it...that is the equivelent of two 182 pound people. For an 80 hp 1200
pound gross weight amphibious airplane to be able to haul two 182 pound
people with almost 3 hours of fuel onboard is nothing shabby. My numbers
are factual statistics...not opinion. So don't opinions get you down.
Speedster wings are 29 feet as I recall. That makes the Kitfox Speedster
and the Avid Flyer having the same wing area. And the Avid makes an
excellent seaplane. So there is no doubt it will work. But the longer
Kitfox 32ft wing will work just that much better. They always do when it
comes to Seaplanes. So do larger engines (like the 100 hp 912 vs the 80 hp
912). Everything is a tradeoff. But aircraft like the Kitfox will do the
job and still stay within the gross weight limits as long as you have the
right engine. Stay away from regular aircraft engines, auto conversions,
and VW's and you will do ok as an amphib (they do not develop enough thrust
per pound).
If you can hold out on an airplane....find a IV-1200 with a 912uls (100 hp)
with a long wing. That would make a very nice seaplane with a reasonable
carrying capacity if built light.
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV-1200 amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <lpfrank18@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: Seaplane-List: Re: Kitfox Speedster on floats
>
> Ok....you're loud and clear now!!!!
>
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> No flight is too short!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=125227#125227
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sea/Float Plane empty vs. gross weight considerations |
Chris,
It was nice meeting you at Oshkosh. I enjoyed the short time we had to
talk. I like any Super Cub as they make nice seaplanes generally.
In reference to my comment about the airplane being able to carry it's own
weight, I was just using that example to say airplanes with that capability
will most likely make the best choices as seaplanes. Particularly as an
amphibious seaplane because the additional weight of the landing gear in the
floats makes such a difference in performance and payload.
So to clarify my comment further, any airplane that can lift it's own EMPTY
WEIGHT (measured while it is on wheels) will most likely make a good
seaplane. Of course this is assuming the designer has tested the gross
weight limits, not just pulled a number out of a hat (which does happen,
believe it or not).
So using my model IV Kitfox with a 912 as an example; It weighs 627 pounds
on wheels, and has a tested gross weight of 1200 pounds. That means my 627
pound airplane can lift 573 pounds of weight off the ground, or 91% of it's
empty weight.
Using another example; If a new Kitox Super Sport with a 912uls (100 hp)
has an average 775 pound empty weight (again on wheels), and a tested 1550
pound gross weight, it has a 775 pound useful load, or the capacity to carry
aloft 100% of it's own empty weight. Once again, the new Kitfox would make
an excellent choice for a seaplane.
As a last example; An early Avid Flyer that has a 396 pound empty weight,
but a 911 pound tested gross weight, it has a 515 pound useful load, or is
carrying 130% of its empty weight. So early Avid Flyers make excellent
seaplanes for sure (see attached brochure specs for an early Avid. BTW -
the airplane in the picture on floats weighed 360 pounds on wheels, and flew
two adults off the water just great....on 40 hp! I know this factually as I
still have the airplane....)
Obviously one has to look hard at the mission you want your seaplane to do.
But these numbers should help the group here to understand better what
exactly I was trying to say with that statement I made to you.
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: Seaplane-List: Sea/Float Plane empty vs. gross weight
considerations
>
> Afternoon all,
>
> While at Oshkosh, I spoke with Paul Seehafer regarding the suitability of
> the LMA Super Cub replica as a sea/float plane. We briefly discussed the
> empty weight versus the gross weight rating of the aircraft and whether or
> not the useful load would be grossly affected while on floats. One of the
> phrases Paul used was the ability of the airplane to "lift its own weight"
> being a reasonable criteria for an aircraft's suitability for life on
> floats.
>
> The LMA Super Cub replica is specified by the manufacturer as about 690
> lbs. empty with an 1100 lb. gross weight when using a Rotax 582, and the
> use of a larger engine will obviously make the airplane weigh more.
> Builders using larger Continental engines and the like are using stronger
> landing gear and some other updates to bring the gross weight up a bit,
> but the typical GW is about 1200 lbs. for the ones I'm familiar with,
> which seems to be along similar lines as a stock J-3. But I'm not sure
> what the empty weight of a stock J-3 is. I did see at least three J-3s on
> floats while at OSH, but I didn't see how many people climbed out of them.
>
> What are some of the criteria I should be considering when determining
> whether or not an airplane will work well on floats or not? Any
> experiences to share or online resources to reference?
>
> Thanks and best regards,
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris Owens
> Waunakee, WI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=126447#126447
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sea/Float Plane empty vs. gross weight considerations |
has anybody herd fromm the guy wanting to build his own 1,900 grose flots?
mal
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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