---------------------------------------------------------- Seaplane-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/16/07: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! (Paul Seehafer) 2. 05:09 AM - Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! (Paul Seehafer) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! (Peter C) 4. 09:19 AM - Re: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! (Noel Loveys) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:21 AM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Re: Seaplane-List: Re: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! Thanks for the information Michel. You sailing enthusiasts apparently know a lot more about nicopress failures than the rest of us (Guy Buchanan pretty much said the same thing, and has a background in boats as well). So I am looking into alternatives for my cables. Sharing information is a great thing! Thanks again for sharing what you know. Paul Seehafer Kitfox IV-1200 912ul Aerocet Amphibs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:14 PM Subject: Seaplane-List: Re: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! > > On Aug 15, 2007, at 6:03 PM, Paul Seehafer wrote: >> You will need a nicopress go/no-go gauge to be able to tell if they are >> good or not (a $6 tool). > > I don't want to sound arrogant or patronising but ... as a sailor I would > never trust Nicopress to support anything aboard. All sailing rigs use a > conical terminal device to end the stays. The more you pull on the stay, > the more it tightens. Of course, those are a tad more expensive than > Nicopress but ... safety first, isn't it? > Yes, I know, I have Nicopress on the wires of my rudder but the force it > must sustain is minimal compare to floats. > > In any case, I am glad it went well for you, Paul. And thank you for > letting the word out. While I don't have floats, it's nice to know that we > have this list to report our problem because learning from others' > experience is the best way to safe flying. > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > do not archive > > PS: An alternative to Nicopress is simply the good old wire spicing. Not > easy if you haven't done it before but maybe a sailmaker can help you > there. A nice splicing dressed with e.g. self-bounding rubber tape. But > the best is the conical terminal because you avoid to make a bend in the > cable around the eyelet. Here is an example: > > http://www.bosunsupplies.com/QuickAttachInstruction.cfm > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:44 AM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Seaplane-List: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! Guy, I never knew anything about what you are saying here. So thank you for informing me. I also had a friend tell me he converted to threaded rod like is used on larger floats. I think that will be the route I will take. I'm currently checking availability. For what it's worth, I did test the new cables I made up and they passed the 1200 pound pull test listed for 1/8" wire. But as you say, if I shouldn't be using this setup, I will convert either to the threaded rod or swage on different ends. It's simply amazing what one can learn by sharing information... Thanks again for the info. Paul Seehafer Kitfox IV-1200 912ul Aerocet Amphibs > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Guy Buchanan" >> Paul, >> Thanks for the pictures, without them your diagnosis would have >> been wrong and you would have had more failures. Your nico sleeve failed >> because it was on 1x19 wire. Nico sleeves are intended solely for 7x19 >> wire and should NEVER be used on 1x19! (Yes, that's CAPITAL N - NEVER! >> Some people try two sleeves on 1x19, thinking that will work. DON'T DO >> IT! You can also use them on 7x7, but you shouldn't be using 7x7 for >> structural applications anyway.) ANY STRUCTURAL 1X19 WIRE TERMINATED WITH >> NICO SLEEVES SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY REPLACED BY 1X19 WITH SWAGED AIRCRAFT >> FITTINGS. >> If you require references I'll dig them up, but I know this well, >> having worked in yacht rigging and design for 20 years. I also can't tell >> you, off the top of my head, what fraction of the wire's capability a >> 1x19 nico will carry, since we never did it; but I saw many failures, >> mostly Hobie cat rigs. >> Now I know this is going to require some work on your part, since >> your tabs may not provide enough clearance for the air-fork clevis, but >> please take the time to do it right. And please spread the word. If your >> hardware came from Aerocet, you might let them know that they have taken >> on excess liability in this regard. >> >> >> Guy Buchanan > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:05 AM PST US From: "Peter C" Subject: Re: Seaplane-List: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! " For what it's worth, I did test the new cables I made up and they passed > the > 1200 pound pull test listed for 1/8" wire. But as you say, if I shouldn't > be using this setup, I will convert either to the threaded rod or swage on > different ends." Paul, I think the message was to not use 1x19; not that nicopress on all cable is bad. This is good news in that 1x19 is terrible to work with compared to 7x19 of even a larger size. I am testing a stainless 3/16 rod system that is effectively one long turnbuckle. Peter ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:47 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Seaplane-List: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! I have the same cables on my floats. The NICO press looks perfect. My plane is still low time and I don't fly in much wind so I'm going to wait till the winter to replace the cables. I'll put that job in my journey log so I won't forget. I'm also going to put a close inspection of the NICO press fittings in my pre flight check list. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-seaplane-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-seaplane-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of Paul Seehafer > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:37 AM > To: seaplane-list@matronics.com > Subject: Seaplane-List: Kitfox-List: ALERT! ANYONE FLYING > AEROCET 1100 FLOATS!! > > > > > > > > > Guy, > > I never knew anything about what you are saying here. So > thank you for > informing me. I also had a friend tell me he converted to > threaded rod > like > is used on larger floats. I think that will be the route I > will take. I'm > currently checking availability. > > For what it's worth, I did test the new cables I made up and > they passed > the > 1200 pound pull test listed for 1/8" wire. But as you say, > if I shouldn't > be using this setup, I will convert either to the threaded > rod or swage on > different ends. > > It's simply amazing what one can learn by sharing information... > > Thanks again for the info. > > Paul Seehafer > Kitfox IV-1200 912ul Aerocet Amphibs > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Guy Buchanan" > >> Paul, > >> Thanks for the pictures, without them your > diagnosis would have > >> been wrong and you would have had more failures. Your nico > sleeve failed > >> because it was on 1x19 wire. Nico sleeves are intended > solely for 7x19 > >> wire and should NEVER be used on 1x19! (Yes, that's > CAPITAL N - NEVER! > >> Some people try two sleeves on 1x19, thinking that will > work. DON'T DO > >> IT! You can also use them on 7x7, but you shouldn't be > using 7x7 for > >> structural applications anyway.) ANY STRUCTURAL 1X19 WIRE > TERMINATED WITH > >> NICO SLEEVES SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY REPLACED BY 1X19 WITH > SWAGED AIRCRAFT > >> FITTINGS. > >> If you require references I'll dig them up, but I > know this well, > >> having worked in yacht rigging and design for 20 years. I > also can't tell > >> you, off the top of my head, what fraction of the wire's > capability a > >> 1x19 nico will carry, since we never did it; but I saw > many failures, > >> mostly Hobie cat rigs. > >> Now I know this is going to require some work on > your part, since > >> your tabs may not provide enough clearance for the > air-fork clevis, but > >> please take the time to do it right. And please spread the > word. If your > >> hardware came from Aerocet, you might let them know that > they have taken > >> on excess liability in this regard. > >> > >> > >> Guy Buchanan > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message seaplane-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Seaplane-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/seaplane-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/seaplane-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.