Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:04 AM - Re: Fuel Question and vibration (Don Walker)
2. 08:11 AM - Re: Fuel, mixture, vibration (Gary K)
3. 08:29 AM - vibrations (The Meiste's)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Fuel Question (Bill Morelli)
5. 08:48 AM - 100 LL (The Meiste's)
6. 12:47 PM - Re: 100 LL (Bill Morelli)
7. 05:43 PM - Re: 100 LL (Gary K)
8. 06:44 PM - Re: 100 LL (Don Walker)
9. 07:20 PM - Re: Fuel Question and vibration (RLucka@aol.com)
10. 07:58 PM - Vibration (The Meiste's)
11. 08:45 PM - Re: Vibration (RLucka@aol.com)
12. 08:54 PM - Re: Vibration (Bill Morelli)
13. 08:57 PM - Re: Vibration (RLucka@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Question and vibration |
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:04:45 -0600
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <D3DW@msn.com>
Hi Richard
I think most of us have reported that at various rpm ranges. Mine had two ranges
from around 3400 to 36oo and one lower arouund 2800 I think. Belt tension
has has a lot to do with that. It took me a while to find the best tension on
my belt. Smoother running now than ever.
I have been working with an engineer/pilot friend for a few years now. He is
well familiar with Subaru and reduction units, having designed his own and still
flying behind it on a gyro. Joe pointed out to me that on the Stratus the
belt cogs are smaller than the grooves they go into. There is room to move the
prop by hand and slide it in the groove even when the belt is fairly tight.
Stratus said they designed it this way to allow air to exit the groove easily.
Joe says it is a design flaw which sets up a vibration even when you can't feel
it. He speculates that this may contribute to the repeated cracking of parts
like the engine mounts and alternator bracket, too. (I'm not sure I would go
that far, but my engine mount cracked a number of hours ago, and I just found
a crack in my alternator mount last week after over three hundred hours.
Anyway, yes, we on this list have had similar experience with the vibration.
However, I took off my Stratus and replaced it with a Subaru we rebuilt. We
used the Stratus reduction, intake, and ignition, but our own cam and heads, taking
care to balance things well. This engine has run MUCH smoother than the
Stratus engine I had, but it is a little less powerful, with cylinders only
.010 over and heads not shaved as much. don walker, HDS TD 321 hours.----
Original Message -----
From: RLucka@aol.com
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Fuel Question
--> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
I have been using 87 octane auto fuel now for all of the 160-plus hours on my
Stratus engine with no problems. I have never used 100LL yet but will have
to when I go on some cross country trips I have planned for this coming summer.
As far as I know, gasohol is not available here in Ohio, so I really don't
have much to say about that.
I did a compression check on my engine just a couple weeks ago. My engine is
showing more harmonic vibration between 1400-2000 rpm and seems to be getting
worse very slowly. Hence my compression check, but all cylinders show good
compression. I am going to look into adjusting the carbs and see if maybe both
carbs are not adjusted equally as far as mixture, etc. The spark plugs on
cylinders 2 and 4 are fine, but the plug on cylinder 1 is very dry and white
(hot) and the plug on cylinder 3 is wet (black). I thought that was odd as I
have never seen that before. I may have to pull the prop off as I don't cherish
making the adjustment with the prop rotating. Anybody made adjustments with
their carbs? Also, do anybody have harmonic vibration within certain rpm
ranges?
Thanks!
Richard (601-HDS, Stratus, 160+ hours)
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel, mixture, vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
Kelly - no comments on fuel, I've been using 87-92 octane from the pumps and
checking gascolator and sumps, no problems so far.
Richard - just a comment that someone else here told me when I found both
front plugs black and both rear plugs white - it sounds like it's the intake
design where the fuel has a harder time making the bend to the rear
cylinders. As far as vibration, I synced both carbs with the shank of a
1/16" drill bit under each carb slide and matching the throttles that way.
Seemed very smooth without prop but I picked up vibrations with the prop.
Just got a dynamic balance (two-blade prop) and got rid of most of it but
still some vibration at some rpm's. that 1400-2000 rpm seems to be a rough
spot for me too.
gary
----- Original Message -----
From: <RLucka@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Fuel Question
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
>
> I have been using 87 octane auto fuel now for all of the 160-plus hours on
my
> Stratus engine with no problems. I have never used 100LL yet but will
have
> to when I go on some cross country trips I have planned for this coming
summer.
>
> As far as I know, gasohol is not available here in Ohio, so I really don't
> have much to say about that.
>
> I did a compression check on my engine just a couple weeks ago. My engine
is
> showing more harmonic vibration between 1400-2000 rpm and seems to be
getting
> worse very slowly. Hence my compression check, but all cylinders show
good
> compression. I am going to look into adjusting the carbs and see if maybe
both
> carbs are not adjusted equally as far as mixture, etc. The spark plugs on
> cylinders 2 and 4 are fine, but the plug on cylinder 1 is very dry and
white
> (hot) and the plug on cylinder 3 is wet (black). I thought that was odd
as I
> have never seen that before. I may have to pull the prop off as I don't
cherish
> making the adjustment with the prop rotating. Anybody made adjustments
with
> their carbs? Also, do anybody have harmonic vibration within certain rpm
> ranges?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Richard (601-HDS, Stratus, 160+ hours)
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Mine has a vib at 3,500 RPM so I try avoiding that location on the throttle.
And also the usual ruff idle when cold at low RPM's (1,500 & below).
Kelly
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Question |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Guys,
I was using 87 octane for along time then switched to mid grade a few
months ago. Once in a while my engine would run on and turn backwards
after shutdown and I thought it may have been the 87 but the mid grade did
not change anything. I ran 100LL to Sun N Fun and back last year (29
flight hours) and everything was fine. I did change the oil when I got
back. I read somewhere that the oil should be changed every 25 hours if
using 100LL!!
I too have a harmonic vibration at about the 3400 to 3600 range. I don't
pay too much attention to it because I rarely end up in that rpm range. On
downwind I pull back to 4000 and base and final at 3000 rpm.
I did notice that the belt teeth are smaller than the groves they fit into.
When my engine is cold, I can move the prop a very slight amount due to
this slop. When the engine is warm, all of the play is gone. I am working
on making a spring scale so I can adjust my belt tension to what Stratus
says it should be. I don't have the book in front of me but I think they
spec the belt for 1/8" deflection with 20 lbs of force when everything is
warm.
The only adjustment I have made to my carbs is that I adjusted the needle
on the right side carb by moving the "C" one notch to lean that side. I
have blacker plugs on both right cylinders. I really have not seen any
change though after doing that.
Finally, as for the cracked alternator mount. Do you have the new thicker
mount?? Mine had cracked but then Stratus sent me a much beefier mount and
so far that has been fine.
Regards,
Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 299.6 flight
hrs. - 412 landings, (1 ON ICE!!)
web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/
>
> I have been using 87 octane auto fuel now for all of the 160-plus hours
on my
> Stratus engine with no problems. I have never used 100LL yet but will
have
> to when I go on some cross country trips I have planned for this coming
summer.
>
> As far as I know, gasohol is not available here in Ohio, so I really
don't
> have much to say about that.
>
> I did a compression check on my engine just a couple weeks ago. My
engine is
> showing more harmonic vibration between 1400-2000 rpm and seems to be
getting
> worse very slowly. Hence my compression check, but all cylinders show
good
> compression. I am going to look into adjusting the carbs and see if
maybe both
> carbs are not adjusted equally as far as mixture, etc. The spark plugs
on
> cylinders 2 and 4 are fine, but the plug on cylinder 1 is very dry and
white
> (hot) and the plug on cylinder 3 is wet (black). I thought that was odd
as I
> have never seen that before. I may have to pull the prop off as I don't
cherish
> making the adjustment with the prop rotating. Anybody made adjustments
with
> their carbs? Also, do anybody have harmonic vibration within certain rpm
> ranges?
>
> Thanks!
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> I was using 87 octane for along time then switched to mid grade a few
> months ago. Once in a while my engine would run on and turn backwards
> after shutdown and I thought it may have been the 87 but the mid grade did
> not change anything. I ran 100LL to Sun N Fun and back last year (29
> flight hours) and everything was fine. I did change the oil when I got
> back. I read somewhere that the oil should be changed every 25 hours if
> using 100LL!!
Bill,
My engine will also do the reverse spin if I try shutting down the engine
with the RPM's still to high. But if I get her idled down below 1,400 or so
it shuts down just fine.
FWIW the following message was recently posted on the airsoob list.
Kelly
Hey guys:
I may have missed this thread, as I have not had time to read everything on
the 100LL issue, but anyone that is concerned about the lead build up can
almost totally eliminate this problem with the use of "Marvel Mystery Oil".
This is a fuel additive, available only in the US, is available in quart
cans, and 5 gal containers as well. It is added to the fuel at fuel up, or
put it into your bulk storage.
The use of this additive will eliminate 99% or more, of the lead buildup.
From my personal experience, I have done AME maintenance for 3 years, on my
past employers C-185, with the Continental IO-550, 300 hp engine with
Millenium cylinders. After 100 hours of flying, we check and service his
plugs, and there is not enough lead build up in all the plugs combined to
make up anymore than probably what would fill up a contact lense! Actually,
there is really no need to have to clean the plugs, although we do it as a
regular maintenance feature to check the general condition of the plugs
anyway, and for the point of accomplishing proper maintenance procedures.
This stuff is absolutely fabulous, it works, and there is nothing better on
the market. If you regularily burn automotive unleaded fuel, just carry
some with you in the aircraft in the event you need to fill up with 100LL at
some airport along the way. You will also need to have a small measuring
device, (plastic container) to be able to measure out the correct amount for
the quantity of fuel you are taking on. I am not sure of the mixture ratio,
it is on the can, but it is in the order of 1 quart to 1000 gallons or
something like that, I am probably wrong on the ratio, but it is quite cost
effective to use, and there are NO more lead issues to deal with, just
regular checks on your plugs. You might want to set up some regular
intervals such as every 10 hours for a while and then every 20 hours for a
while etc, until you are confident with the performance such that you can
leave the plugs in for at least 50 hours or more without worrying about
them.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Kelly,
That's some good info on the Marvel Mystery Oil. I had used this stuff many
years ago on a couple of old auto engines. You can pour it in the gas, in
the oil, down the carb while engine is running and it seems to do good
things. Sure is a mystery on what it does!!!
If it was not for the high price of 100LL, I would not mind using it all
the time. When I did use it on my Florida trip, it was very pleasant not
having that auto gas smell woffing around all of the time. 100LL has a much
more tolerable smell.
Bill
>
> Bill,
> My engine will also do the reverse spin if I try shutting down the engine
> with the RPM's still to high. But if I get her idled down below 1,400 or
so
> it shuts down just fine.
>
> FWIW the following message was recently posted on the airsoob list.
>
> Kelly
>
>
> Hey guys:
>
> I may have missed this thread, as I have not had time to read everything
on
> the 100LL issue, but anyone that is concerned about the lead build up can
> almost totally eliminate this problem with the use of "Marvel Mystery
Oil".
> This is a fuel additive, available only in the US, is available in quart
> cans, and 5 gal containers as well. It is added to the fuel at fuel up,
or
> put it into your bulk storage.
>
> The use of this additive will eliminate 99% or more, of the lead buildup.
> From my personal experience, I have done AME maintenance for 3 years, on
my
> past employers C-185, with the Continental IO-550, 300 hp engine with
> Millenium cylinders. After 100 hours of flying, we check and service his
> plugs, and there is not enough lead build up in all the plugs combined to
> make up anymore than probably what would fill up a contact lense!
Actually,
> there is really no need to have to clean the plugs, although we do it as a
> regular maintenance feature to check the general condition of the plugs
> anyway, and for the point of accomplishing proper maintenance procedures.
> This stuff is absolutely fabulous, it works, and there is nothing better
on
> the market. If you regularily burn automotive unleaded fuel, just carry
> some with you in the aircraft in the event you need to fill up with 100LL
at
> some airport along the way. You will also need to have a small measuring
> device, (plastic container) to be able to measure out the correct amount
for
> the quantity of fuel you are taking on. I am not sure of the mixture
ratio,
> it is on the can, but it is in the order of 1 quart to 1000 gallons or
> something like that, I am probably wrong on the ratio, but it is quite
cost
> effective to use, and there are NO more lead issues to deal with, just
> regular checks on your plugs. You might want to set up some regular
> intervals such as every 10 hours for a while and then every 20 hours for a
> while etc, until you are confident with the performance such that you can
> leave the plugs in for at least 50 hours or more without worrying about
> them.
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
> Bill,
> My engine will also do the reverse spin if I try shutting down the engine
> with the RPM's still to high. But if I get her idled down below 1,400 or
so
> it shuts down just fine.
>
yup, same with mine. i had to adjust my idle to 1000 rpm so that it would
shutdown without kicking back.
gary
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:43:46 -0600
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <D3DW@msn.com>
Mine did the reverse, kick back unless I pulled back under 800. I switched to 89
instead of 87 and that took care of that. don
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary K
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: 100 LL
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Gary K" <flyink@efortress.com>
> Bill,
> My engine will also do the reverse spin if I try shutting down the engine
> with the RPM's still to high. But if I get her idled down below 1,400 or
so
> it shuts down just fine.
>
yup, same with mine. i had to adjust my idle to 1000 rpm so that it would
shutdown without kicking back.
gary
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Question and vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
Thank you all for your replies and good information about your experiences
with engine vibration and condition of spark plugs. My engine runs smooth
without the prop, but vibrates with the prop. One reason why I cruise at 3800
RPM
is because the engine runs very smoothly and sips a very little bit of fuel
(average speed 95 mph). Vibration returns a little when I increase the rpm and
is quite noticeable at 4800 rpm. Maybe that will go away if I tightened the
belt a little more (belt deflection is about than 1/4" when engine is warm).
It is true, I am also able to slightly move the prop just a tad while the
cogs in the belt slips.
I have not had any failure yet on the alternator brackets - they seem quite
beefy. But, I did have two engine mount failures on the upper-right mount (as
seen from the cockpit). The mount has been beefed up and I always do a
post-flight check on the mount.
Richard
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> One reason why I cruise at 3800 RPM
> is because the engine runs very smoothly and sips a very little bit of
fuel
> (average speed 95 mph).
Same here Richard, I really don't see the point of pushing for another 700 +
RPM just to gain another 5 MPH, and suck another GPH of fuel.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vibration returns a little when I increase the rpm and
> is quite noticeable at 4800 rpm. Maybe that will go away if I tightened
the
> belt a little more (belt deflection is about than 1/4" when engine is
warm).
I'm running my belt tension 1/4" cold (before starting),and 1/8" hot
(measured after flight).
Also you may need to verify your prop tracking as having the blades slightly
off could be causing you some vibs.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As far as carb adjustments I also moved both carb clips on the needles down
from the 2nd groove from the top to 3rd groove from the top.
My plugs on pass side looked to be light gray in color, & plugs on pilots
side looked to be light brown in color. At last check the plugs were almost
too black now (maybe I need to cruise at 4,800 RPM?)
Kelly
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
In a message dated 1/11/2004 11:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
meiste@essex1.com writes:
Also you may need to verify your prop tracking as having the blades slightly
off could be causing you some vibs.
Here's an interesting part. The tracking on my 3-blade Warp drive do not
track perfectly. Two blades track perfectly, but the 3rd blade is off by 3mm.
I
called Warp Drive and they said that because the blades are composite, they
can be out of track by as much as 1/4 inches because the composite material is
a little more flexible.
I have not found a way to track that 3rd blade true to the other two. I
tried using aluminum tape inside the hub to "move" the blade and while I had
initial success at tracking, the tape eventually moved and the blade returned to
it's original position. Before the blade returned to it's original position, I
did not notice any improvement in vibration.
A real mystery here...
Richard
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
It's interesting how there are vibrations at different rpm's with different
installations.
I'm sure it has to do with the redrive and maybe prop or spinner imbalance.
I want to get the belt at the proper tension to see if that helps. I also
would not mind getting the prop / spinner balanced sometime if I could get
it done for a reasonable price!! Does anyone know how that is done?
I cruise at 4600 to 4800 and I have no vibration there. My vibration
indicator is my vertical card compass. It is mounted on top of the glare
shield on a piece of foam for shock mounting. I moves very freely so when
things start to vibrate, the compass picks it up right away.
Regards,
Bill
> [Original Message]
> From: The Meiste's <meiste@essex1.com>
> To: <stratus-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/11/2004 11:00:52 PM
> Subject: Stratus-List: Vibration
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
>
> > One reason why I cruise at 3800 RPM
> > is because the engine runs very smoothly and sips a very little bit of
> fuel
> > (average speed 95 mph).
>
> Same here Richard, I really don't see the point of pushing for another
700 +
> RPM just to gain another 5 MPH, and suck another GPH of fuel.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Vibration returns a little when I increase the rpm and
> > is quite noticeable at 4800 rpm. Maybe that will go away if I tightened
> the
> > belt a little more (belt deflection is about than 1/4" when engine is
> warm).
>
>
> I'm running my belt tension 1/4" cold (before starting),and 1/8" hot
> (measured after flight).
> Also you may need to verify your prop tracking as having the blades
slightly
> off could be causing you some vibs.
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> As far as carb adjustments I also moved both carb clips on the needles
down
> from the 2nd groove from the top to 3rd groove from the top.
> My plugs on pass side looked to be light gray in color, & plugs on pilots
> side looked to be light brown in color. At last check the plugs were
almost
> too black now (maybe I need to cruise at 4,800 RPM?)
>
> Kelly
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
In a message dated 1/11/2004 11:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
meiste@essex1.com writes:
As far as carb adjustments I also moved both carb clips on the needles down
from the 2nd groove from the top to 3rd groove from the top.
My plugs on pass side looked to be light gray in color, & plugs on pilots
side looked to be light brown in color. At last check the plugs were almost
too black now (maybe I need to cruise at 4,800 RPM?)
Kelly,
Last Spring, I moved the clips from the 2nd position (lean) to the 3rd
position (richer). I found the engine ran cooler and kept the clips in the 3rd
position all summer. In October, I noticed all the plugs, especially from
cylinder #3, to be black. So, I returned the clips back to the 2nd position and
the
plugs improved. Running richer helps keep the engine running cooler, but may
eventually foul the plugs.
Kelly, did you have your heads rebuilt by RAM? I was going to have mine
rebuilt, but since, like you, I cruise at about 3800 RPM, my engine runs cooler
and I have not had any troubles with the valve guides for the last 130 hours.
This is not to say I won't have any valve guide troubles, but the likelihood of
having the problems, I think, is greatly reduced because of my flying habits
(full-power climb to 1000 feet, then climbing cruise at 4200 rpm/90 mph and
then level off at 3800 rpm). I don't see any point in being able to rev the
engine higher just to go a little faster and burn more fuel.
Thanks
Richard
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|