Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:12 AM - Service Ceilings (John Karnes)
2. 09:34 AM - Re: Service Ceilings (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
3. 12:56 PM - Re: Service Ceilings (John Karnes)
4. 12:58 PM - Re: Service Ceilings (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
5. 02:18 PM - Re: Service Ceilings (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
6. 03:01 PM - Re: Service Ceilings (The Meiste's)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Service Ceilings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
After putting weight in the passenger seat and getting the gross weight up
to 1200# in my Zenith 601HDS, I established a service ceiling of around
8,000 ft. With me alone, the service ceiling was 12,000 ft. +. The Warp
Drive prop is pitched at 11.5 deg. The static max RPM is about 5000. I
was a little disappointed with this performance. What are other people
getting? Should I flatten out the pitch and would this give me a little
more climb at the higher altitudes? Thanks.
John Karnes
N601JK
Port Orchard, WA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Service Ceilings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I'm sorry John but you have discovered what I also discovered that this
airplane/engine combo does not do well at altitude....I think the plane runs
out of wing...I know the HD model gets up to 14k fairly easily.
I wonder what the true density altitude was during your test as 8000ft
sounds a bit low. I can get to about 9500 density altitude reasonably
comfortably but that is not enough for the mountains around here.
My prop is set coarser than yours...about 13.5 I think.
Also did you have the throttle wide open?...Personally I don't drive it like
this in cruise as it sounds like a hand grenade waiting to go off.
I also don't think the automatic leaning of the Bing carbs works to well
either...I have a fuel flow device and although the flow slows down a little
at altitude not enough...I think for example an normally aspirated engine
makes 75% power at 8000ft....I'm burning 8.2 GPH at take off so if the
leaning works as it should I would be burning 75% of that number at 8k with
WOT....I know I'm burning quite a bit more than that.
Eventually you will get used to the fact that this airplane is slower and
much lower than advertised, its just a fact of life that I grieved over for
quite a while. Its still a good little plane though, you can get lots of
gear in it and its climb off the ground is spectacular
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Karnes
Subject: Stratus-List: Service Ceilings
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
--> <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
After putting weight in the passenger seat and getting the gross weight up
to 1200# in my Zenith 601HDS, I established a service ceiling of around
8,000 ft. With me alone, the service ceiling was 12,000 ft. +. The Warp
Drive prop is pitched at 11.5 deg. The static max RPM is about 5000. I was
a little disappointed with this performance. What are other people getting?
Should I flatten out the pitch and would this give me a little more climb at
the higher altitudes? Thanks.
John Karnes
N601JK
Port Orchard, WA
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Service Ceilings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> I'm sorry John but you have discovered what I also discovered that this
> airplane/engine combo does not do well at altitude....I think the plane
runs
> out of wing...I know the HD model gets up to 14k fairly easily.
>
> I wonder what the true density altitude was during your test as 8000ft
> sounds a bit low. I can get to about 9500 density altitude reasonably
> comfortably but that is not enough for the mountains around here.
>
> My prop is set coarser than yours...about 13.5 I think.
>
> Also did you have the throttle wide open?...Personally I don't drive it
like
> this in cruise as it sounds like a hand grenade waiting to go off.
>
> I also don't think the automatic leaning of the Bing carbs works to well
> either...I have a fuel flow device and although the flow slows down a
little
> at altitude not enough...I think for example an normally aspirated engine
> makes 75% power at 8000ft....I'm burning 8.2 GPH at take off so if the
> leaning works as it should I would be burning 75% of that number at 8k
with
> WOT....I know I'm burning quite a bit more than that.
>
> Eventually you will get used to the fact that this airplane is slower and
> much lower than advertised, its just a fact of life that I grieved over
for
> quite a while. Its still a good little plane though, you can get lots of
> gear in it and its climb off the ground is spectacular
>
> Frank
Thanks, Frank.
Yeah, I really scratch my head over the "140 mph @ 80 hp cruise" claims.
Maybe in a steep dive...
I know that the throttle was wide open. I kept pushing the rod to try to
wring a few more HP out of the engine.
I agree with you though, the plane is a little of fun. I wonder how the XL
folks are doing with their cruise speeds, service altitudes, etc.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
p.s. I'm looking for a local cross country destination. Maybe I'll fly
down to Corvallis and visit with you, Frank.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Service Ceilings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
More than welcome anytime,
Give me a call at home on 541-745-6386 or at work on 541-715-7568
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Karnes
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: Service Ceilings
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
--> <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> I'm sorry John but you have discovered what I also discovered that
> this airplane/engine combo does not do well at altitude....I think the
> plane
runs
> out of wing...I know the HD model gets up to 14k fairly easily.
>
> I wonder what the true density altitude was during your test as 8000ft
> sounds a bit low. I can get to about 9500 density altitude reasonably
> comfortably but that is not enough for the mountains around here.
>
> My prop is set coarser than yours...about 13.5 I think.
>
> Also did you have the throttle wide open?...Personally I don't drive
> it
like
> this in cruise as it sounds like a hand grenade waiting to go off.
>
> I also don't think the automatic leaning of the Bing carbs works to
> well either...I have a fuel flow device and although the flow slows
> down a
little
> at altitude not enough...I think for example an normally aspirated
> engine makes 75% power at 8000ft....I'm burning 8.2 GPH at take off so
> if the leaning works as it should I would be burning 75% of that
> number at 8k
with
> WOT....I know I'm burning quite a bit more than that.
>
> Eventually you will get used to the fact that this airplane is slower
> and much lower than advertised, its just a fact of life that I grieved
> over
for
> quite a while. Its still a good little plane though, you can get lots
> of gear in it and its climb off the ground is spectacular
>
> Frank
Thanks, Frank.
Yeah, I really scratch my head over the "140 mph @ 80 hp cruise" claims.
Maybe in a steep dive...
I know that the throttle was wide open. I kept pushing the rod to try to
wring a few more HP out of the engine.
I agree with you though, the plane is a little of fun. I wonder how the XL
folks are doing with their cruise speeds, service altitudes, etc.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
p.s. I'm looking for a local cross country destination. Maybe I'll fly down
to Corvallis and visit with you, Frank.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Service Ceilings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
140mph cruise?....Check this out, I did a fly by at a local fly in...Sorry,
I mean an aborted landing due to an aardvark crossing the runway..:).....I
was in a 45 degree dive with full power and managed to not quite hit
150mph....
But don't get me going...I won't be building another ZAC product despite my
beloved bride pointing excitedly at the CH640 saying, "but honey,
look!...Its got 4 seats we can take our friends with us and it goes
160mph...this will be much better than an RV-7"
Riiiight.....take off 40 mph (and 6000 feet off the ceiling, from previous
experience) and all our friends can buy their own bloody airplane while we
will be scorching along at a genuine 200mph and 20,000ft...As adverised!.
But please don't get me going...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Karnes
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: Service Ceilings
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
--> <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> I'm sorry John but you have discovered what I also discovered that
> this airplane/engine combo does not do well at altitude....I think the
> plane
runs
> out of wing...I know the HD model gets up to 14k fairly easily.
>
> I wonder what the true density altitude was during your test as 8000ft
> sounds a bit low. I can get to about 9500 density altitude reasonably
> comfortably but that is not enough for the mountains around here.
>
> My prop is set coarser than yours...about 13.5 I think.
>
> Also did you have the throttle wide open?...Personally I don't drive
> it
like
> this in cruise as it sounds like a hand grenade waiting to go off.
>
> I also don't think the automatic leaning of the Bing carbs works to
> well either...I have a fuel flow device and although the flow slows
> down a
little
> at altitude not enough...I think for example an normally aspirated
> engine makes 75% power at 8000ft....I'm burning 8.2 GPH at take off so
> if the leaning works as it should I would be burning 75% of that
> number at 8k
with
> WOT....I know I'm burning quite a bit more than that.
>
> Eventually you will get used to the fact that this airplane is slower
> and much lower than advertised, its just a fact of life that I grieved
> over
for
> quite a while. Its still a good little plane though, you can get lots
> of gear in it and its climb off the ground is spectacular
>
> Frank
Thanks, Frank.
Yeah, I really scratch my head over the "140 mph @ 80 hp cruise" claims.
Maybe in a steep dive...
I know that the throttle was wide open. I kept pushing the rod to try to
wring a few more HP out of the engine.
I agree with you though, the plane is a little of fun. I wonder how the XL
folks are doing with their cruise speeds, service altitudes, etc.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
p.s. I'm looking for a local cross country destination. Maybe I'll fly down
to Corvallis and visit with you, Frank.
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Service Ceilings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
The Warp
> Drive prop is pitched at 11.5 deg. The static max RPM is about 5000. I
> was a little disappointed with this performance. What are other people
> getting? Should I flatten out the pitch and would this give me a little
> more climb at the higher altitudes? Thanks.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John,
I can't answer your service ceiling question as I rarely fly above 3,000 ft
MSL (or approx 2,300 AGL). There's really no reason for me to do so in my
geographical location, as the ground around here is flat as my first girl
friend.
But as for pitch, I started out with my 3 blade Warp set at 12.5 deg and
found my climb at my low alt to be around 1,200 FPM when loaded to approx
1,000 lb. (my plane is an HD).
Then I went to 15.5 deg to get more cruising speed and found I gained approx
10 MPH (cruise now at 100 MPH @ 4,000 RPM), but I found my climb dropped to
about 800 FPM.
Hope this will help,
Kelly
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