Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:35 AM - EIS configuration settings (Larry McFarland)
2. 07:51 AM - Re: EIS configuration settings (RO)
3. 08:53 AM - Prop/belt vibration (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
4. 01:13 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (Larry McFarland)
5. 01:23 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
6. 01:27 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
7. 05:44 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (gary)
8. 07:08 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (The Meiste's)
9. 07:52 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (Don Walker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | EIS configuration settings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi guys,
Does anyone have the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS
and know what the configuration setting is for the Stratus
engine? I'm getting readings, but don't know if the configuration set number
is good. EIS people didn't recollect what the correct number was either,
but suggested I try a 2. Rotax uses a 1, HKS uses 6, Jabaru uses 5 and all
others Hirth, Zenoah are supposed to be a 2. Hmmmmmmm.
The regular tach is still wobbly above 2000 as well.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EIS configuration settings |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "RO" <ozambela@hotmail.com>
Please remove me from your lists
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Stratus-List: EIS configuration settings
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Does anyone have the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS
> and know what the configuration setting is for the Stratus
> engine? I'm getting readings, but don't know if the configuration set
number
> is good. EIS people didn't recollect what the correct number was either,
> but suggested I try a 2. Rotax uses a 1, HKS uses 6, Jabaru uses 5 and
all
> others Hirth, Zenoah are supposed to be a 2. Hmmmmmmm.
> The regular tach is still wobbly above 2000 as well.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi guys,
I just replaced my prop shaft bearings and belt. Took it flying and it has
picked up significant vibration. I note from the manual that a too loose
belt will cause vibration. I also know that 1/8th" deflection at 20lbs is
very tight. I probably got more deflection than that because it feels better
and did note signs of the rear bearing getting hot when I dismantled the
drive and up till then I had been running tighter.
I have never had the prop balanced and was thinking this might help, but of
course if it is coming from the belt it might be a waste.
Any thoughts?
The vibration is bad enough to make my toes tingle on the rudder pedals, not
pleasant and it worries me that it might mask another problem showing up.
Thanks
Frank 320 hours
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I just replaced my prop shaft bearings and belt. Took it flying and it
has
> picked up significant vibration. I note from the manual that a too loose
> belt will cause vibration. I also know that 1/8th" deflection at 20lbs is
> very tight. I probably got more deflection than that because it feels
better
> and did note signs of the rear bearing getting hot when I dismantled the
> drive and up till then I had been running tighter.
>
> I have never had the prop balanced and was thinking this might help, but
of
> course if it is coming from the belt it might be a waste.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> The vibration is bad enough to make my toes tingle on the rudder pedals,
not
> pleasant and it worries me that it might mask another problem showing up.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank 320 hours
You probably didn't miss the article in the latest Sport Pilot Magazine
about having
carbs synchronized or arriving at vibrations there. Applied to 912s, but
the carbs look
a lot like Stratus types.
I'd take the prop off first and run the RPMs you find the vibrations on.
Then reattach prop
if nothing changes and work from a loose belt to a tighter belt to measure
the difference.
I didn't know the bearings got hot. Is that normal?
Larry McFarland
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The redrive is a less than ideal design, as is any belt drive. The rear
bearing is heated and the front one cooled which leads to different rates of
expansion between front and rear, hence the tracking you set up on the
ground is going to vaver a little.
Yes there was a dark ring on the rear bearing which looked like cooked oil.
That's why I was not over anxious to tighten the belt right up.
I did run the engine without the prop and it felt smooth.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I just replaced my prop shaft bearings and belt. Took it flying and
> it
has
> picked up significant vibration. I note from the manual that a too
> loose belt will cause vibration. I also know that 1/8th" deflection at
> 20lbs is very tight. I probably got more deflection than that because
> it feels
better
> and did note signs of the rear bearing getting hot when I dismantled
> the drive and up till then I had been running tighter.
>
> I have never had the prop balanced and was thinking this might help,
> but
of
> course if it is coming from the belt it might be a waste.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> The vibration is bad enough to make my toes tingle on the rudder
> pedals,
not
> pleasant and it worries me that it might mask another problem showing
> up.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank 320 hours
You probably didn't miss the article in the latest Sport Pilot Magazine
about having carbs synchronized or arriving at vibrations there. Applied to
912s, but the carbs look a lot like Stratus types. I'd take the prop off
first and run the RPMs you find the vibrations on. Then reattach prop if
nothing changes and work from a loose belt to a tighter belt to measure the
difference. I didn't know the bearings got hot. Is that normal?
Larry McFarland
Do not archive
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
But Larry your right I could just drop the prop and run with the belt and
see if it vibrates. Of course it's a little different on the ground than in
the air...So I might tie it down and do a run with the prop first to
calibrate the vibration feel on the ground..then drop the prop and do it
again.
That should tell me if I need a prop balance
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
McFarland
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I just replaced my prop shaft bearings and belt. Took it flying and
> it
has
> picked up significant vibration. I note from the manual that a too
> loose belt will cause vibration. I also know that 1/8th" deflection at
> 20lbs is very tight. I probably got more deflection than that because
> it feels
better
> and did note signs of the rear bearing getting hot when I dismantled
> the drive and up till then I had been running tighter.
>
> I have never had the prop balanced and was thinking this might help,
> but
of
> course if it is coming from the belt it might be a waste.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> The vibration is bad enough to make my toes tingle on the rudder
> pedals,
not
> pleasant and it worries me that it might mask another problem showing
> up.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank 320 hours
You probably didn't miss the article in the latest Sport Pilot Magazine
about having carbs synchronized or arriving at vibrations there. Applied to
912s, but the carbs look a lot like Stratus types. I'd take the prop off
first and run the RPMs you find the vibrations on. Then reattach prop if
nothing changes and work from a loose belt to a tighter belt to measure the
difference. I didn't know the bearings got hot. Is that normal?
Larry McFarland
Do not archive
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
(I got carried away as usual typing, get a beer or cup of coffee)
I'm not all that thrilled with the belt drive. I think it's very reliable,
bullet-proof even, but it sounds like the bearings need much attention,
tough to adjust, and has a bit of vibration. I love the soob, it was as
smooth as glass w/o the prop (and the belt was too so I don't think it's a
good test but will weed out the carb out-of-sync vibration). Once I put my
two-blade prop on it felt pretty bad. The dynamic balance helped a ton, but
we picked one rpm (4800) and took a reading there. It's pretty smooth at
4800-5000 but I get a pretty good "rum-rum" noise at other rpm's. Not sure
if it's more the prop or belt tension-tracking but I don't like it.
Before I re-balance it, I'm debating about getting a ground adjustable or
in-flight adjustable prop. 3-blade ground adjustable should get me
smoother, but maybe not better performance (better climb or cruise but not
both overall). I'm concerned about putting a 20-25 lb in-flight adjustable
on the Stratus drive - does anyone have any thoughts? Mykal said "should be
ok" (translates to "I'm a test pilot"). The drive is good for 150 HP? so
maybe it'll be fine. But, I'm kicking around the idea of getting a gear
drive. I really don't like the rum-rum noise and the adjustments.
Twice after adjusting tension and doing a run-up, it loosened. I had the
bolts torqued to spec. The tracking is a pain. Right now it's right at
.003" but toward the front sprocket. The belt squeaks when I pull the prop
around, never did that before but I think it's because it's towards the
front. So, I'll re-adjust it so it's biased towards the rear. Good point
Frank about the rear expanding more but I don't think so, aluminum spreads
heat very quick.
I wish there was some kind of screw adjusters for tension and tracking.
Larry - get on it! Speaking of tension, I still have no idea of proper
tension. Like Frank said, what is 1/8" at 20lbs? I caught Mykal at SNF one
year and asked about that, whether I should try to make some sort of jig.
He pushed the belt on the display engine and said "that's about right".
After that I figured it's just a ballpark thing, no need to call rocket
scientists to adjust it. But, I really think it's tricky - too loose and
you get the rum-rum, too tight and you're smoking bearings. Dunno. I'm
playing with mine all day tomorrow, sposed to be nice out.
I talked with Lance at NSI and other NSI flyers and was almost convinced
about his drive and CAP but I've heard way too much bad about NSI to buy
anything from him. I'm thinking really hard about buying an AutoFlight gear
drive, then an in-flight adjustable.
Any thoughts and comments appreciated.
Frank - if you are keeping your setup, get a dynamic balance, it was worth
every penny and I heard the same from everyone else who has done it
(Eggenfelner list among others). Mine got really sweet at the rpm that we
balanced it at, and I think it could get a lot better - we only did one
itteration and he usually does three. If I keep my prop and drive, then I'm
going back for more.
Bill, I'm looking for some places to travel and you're not that far away.
Tomorrow would have been good but too late now. Maybe sometime soon I'd
like to visit if you don't mind.
Gary
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> Twice after adjusting tension and doing a run-up, it loosened. I had the
> bolts torqued to spec. The tracking is a pain. Right now it's right at
> .003" but toward the front sprocket. The belt squeaks when I pull the
prop
> around, never did that before but I think it's because it's towards the
> front. So, I'll re-adjust it so it's biased towards the rear. Good point
> Frank about the rear expanding more but I don't think so, aluminum spreads
> heat very quick.
>
> I wish there was some kind of screw adjusters for tension and tracking.
> Larry - get on it! Speaking of tension, I still have no idea of proper
> tension. Like Frank said, what is 1/8" at 20lbs? I caught Mykal at SNF
one
> year and asked about that, whether I should try to make some sort of jig.
> He pushed the belt on the display engine and said "that's about right".
> After that I figured it's just a ballpark thing, no need to call rocket
> scientists to adjust it. But, I really think it's tricky - too loose and
> you get the rum-rum, too tight and you're smoking bearings. Dunno. I'm
> playing with mine all day tomorrow, sposed to be nice out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Gary,
Your correct this belt issue isn't rocket science, as it's designed to be
pretty crude and can tolerate LOTS of out of wack adjustments. I flew a Quad
City Challenger for a half dozen years before switching over to my 601. But
the two have very similar belt drives & spec's. When I flew the Challenger I
new I had my belt adjustment was about right when I could just barely move
the belt on the top sprocket fore & aft by hand, I knew that equaled my X #
of lbs while pushing in the center of the belt on a cold engine. In the
Challenger flying club I was in it was a common practice to walk over to a
buddies plane and push & pull on his belt to see how tight he was running
his belt. After years of doing that I've seen it all, from belts almost
ready to fall of the sprocket, to belts that were fiddle tight ..... and
NONE ever had a single problem with a belt, or drive (not even a wrecked
bearing). So I really can't believe the +/- .003 tol on the Stratus drive
sprockets. In my opinion they could be +/- .030 and the belts wouldn't know
the difference. FWIW my Stratus sprockets are now adjusted to +/- .000 and
my belt will still squeak as yours is doing when I turn the prop over by
hand. Now days to check my belt tension I simply place a straight edge
across the belt from top to bottom sprocket, then in the mid point between
the sprockets push with a tape measure that is only sticking out of the tape
a few inches. With the tape up against the straight edge push slowly until
the tape feels as its about to bend (buckle) and that should give you 20
lbs. I run my belt 1/4 to 5/16 inch deflection when the engine is cold. Once
you got this set to your liking just rotate the prop tips by hand and get a
feel for the movement at the tips and during the preflight just a brief
wiggle of the prop will give you a pretty accurate indication that your belt
adjustment is were you originally set it.
Sorry for rambling on, but I hope it is of some help.
Kelly
601 HD
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Prop/belt vibration |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:45:13 -0500
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Don Walker" <D3DW@msn.com>
Twice after adjusting tension and doing a run-up, it loosened. I had the
bolts torqued to spec. The tracking is a pain. Right now it's right at
003" but toward the front sprocket. The belt squeaks when I pull the prop
around, never did that before but I think it's because it's towards the
front. So, I'll re-adjust it so it's biased towards the rear. Good point
Frank about the rear expanding more but I don't think so, aluminum spreads
heat very quick.
While running, the belt will creep forward on the sprocket with increasing
rpm, if set up to track at the back. You may observe this by running with the
cowl off. this appears to have more to do with load and mechanical factors than
heat. My belt squeaks because there is space between the cogs of the belt and
the sprocket teeth. This design choice was rationalized to allow room for
air to escape, which is probably unnecessary. they work fine and quieter it seems
when fitting closer and won't squeak when rocking the prop. The squeak is
from the metal tooth rubbing against the rubber as the prop moves the first 1/4
inch at the tip at tight belt tension. Don Walker HDS 330 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: gary
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
(I got carried away as usual typing, get a beer or cup of coffee)
I'm not all that thrilled with the belt drive. I think it's very reliable,
bullet-proof even, but it sounds like the bearings need much attention,
tough to adjust, and has a bit of vibration. I love the soob, it was as
smooth as glass w/o the prop (and the belt was too so I don't think it's a
good test but will weed out the carb out-of-sync vibration). Once I put my
two-blade prop on it felt pretty bad. The dynamic balance helped a ton, but
we picked one rpm (4800) and took a reading there. It's pretty smooth at
4800-5000 but I get a pretty good "rum-rum" noise at other rpm's. Not sure
if it's more the prop or belt tension-tracking but I don't like it.
Before I re-balance it, I'm debating about getting a ground adjustable or
in-flight adjustable prop. 3-blade ground adjustable should get me
smoother, but maybe not better performance (better climb or cruise but not
both overall). I'm concerned about putting a 20-25 lb in-flight adjustable
on the Stratus drive - does anyone have any thoughts? Mykal said "should be
ok" (translates to "I'm a test pilot"). The drive is good for 150 HP? so
maybe it'll be fine. But, I'm kicking around the idea of getting a gear
drive. I really don't like the rum-rum noise and the adjustments.
Twice after adjusting tension and doing a run-up, it loosened. I had the
bolts torqued to spec. The tracking is a pain. Right now it's right at
.003" but toward the front sprocket. The belt squeaks when I pull the prop
around, never did that before but I think it's because it's towards the
front. So, I'll re-adjust it so it's biased towards the rear. Good point
Frank about the rear expanding more but I don't think so, aluminum spreads
heat very quick.
I wish there was some kind of screw adjusters for tension and tracking.
Larry - get on it! Speaking of tension, I still have no idea of proper
tension. Like Frank said, what is 1/8" at 20lbs? I caught Mykal at SNF one
year and asked about that, whether I should try to make some sort of jig.
He pushed the belt on the display engine and said "that's about right".
After that I figured it's just a ballpark thing, no need to call rocket
scientists to adjust it. But, I really think it's tricky - too loose and
you get the rum-rum, too tight and you're smoking bearings. Dunno. I'm
playing with mine all day tomorrow, sposed to be nice out.
I talked with Lance at NSI and other NSI flyers and was almost convinced
about his drive and CAP but I've heard way too much bad about NSI to buy
anything from him. I'm thinking really hard about buying an AutoFlight gear
drive, then an in-flight adjustable.
Any thoughts and comments appreciated.
Frank - if you are keeping your setup, get a dynamic balance, it was worth
every penny and I heard the same from everyone else who has done it
(Eggenfelner list among others). Mine got really sweet at the rpm that we
balanced it at, and I think it could get a lot better - we only did one
itteration and he usually does three. If I keep my prop and drive, then I'm
going back for more.
Bill, I'm looking for some places to travel and you're not that far away.
Tomorrow would have been good but too late now. Maybe sometime soon I'd
like to visit if you don't mind.
Gary
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