Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:36 AM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
2. 09:00 AM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (Bill Morelli)
3. 09:25 AM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
4. 11:11 AM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (Bill Morelli)
5. 11:21 AM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
6. 04:15 PM - carb sync (gary)
7. 04:21 PM - Re: carb sync (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
8. 05:50 PM - Re: carb sync (Bill Morelli)
9. 07:18 PM - Vac Gauge (The Meiste's)
10. 08:07 PM - Re: Prop/belt vibration (RLucka@aol.com)
11. 08:07 PM - Re: Vac Gauge (Bill Morelli)
12. 08:16 PM - Re: Starter problem (RLucka@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi guys,
I readjusted the belt tighter and found the vibration to reduced
considerably. A new belt definatly does loosen during the first few hours of
running.
I still have some vibration but it is acceptable now. I will check my Warp
Drive blade angles (I'm 99% sure they are all the same but for the sake of a
5 min check its worth it)
Beyond that I will probably get my prop balanced as soon as I can find a
shop that can do it.
Thanks for your thoughts
Frank
HDS Stratus w Ram heads 322 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of The Meiste's
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> Twice after adjusting tension and doing a run-up, it loosened. I had
> the bolts torqued to spec. The tracking is a pain. Right now it's
> right at .003" but toward the front sprocket. The belt squeaks when I
> pull the
Message 2
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Frank,
I was getting ready to have my prop balanced as well but I decided to hold
off and try a couple of things first.
- Pull the prop and check the status of vibration at various RPMs
- Check and tighten belt tension as needed.
- Did you check the belt tension HOT? Mine is gets quite a bit tighter
when warmed up.
- I also just received the premier issue of Sport Pilot magazine from the
EAA - In it is an article about synchronizing the Bing 64 dual carbs.
This month is mechanical synchronization which just amounts to making sure
both throttle valves open at the same time. They consider this the coarse
adjust.
Next month is pneumatic synchronization (Fine adjust) which is something I
want to do.
The article says that it is important to pneumatically sync the carbs
because "The two carbs must be adjusted as closely as possible to each
other so the power pulses from each side are equal. If not, the unequal
power strokes can create excessive torsional vibration, which is the rapid
slowing down and speeding up of the crankshaft rotational speed."
You probably knew all of this but it's new to me.
So it seems to me that the dynamic prop balance should probably be the last
thing I do after getting the belt tension correct and synching the carbs.
Any comments would be appreciated. I just wish I knew how to do the
pneumatic carb adjust now instead of waiting for the next article???
Regards,
Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 316.9 flight
hrs. - 436 landings, (1 ON ICE!!)
web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/
|
---=( )=---
0 0
> [Original Message]
> From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: stratus-list@matronics.com <stratus-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 5/3/2004 11:36:40 AM
> Subject: RE: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I readjusted the belt tighter and found the vibration to reduced
> considerably. A new belt definatly does loosen during the first few hours
of
> running.
>
> I still have some vibration but it is acceptable now. I will check my Warp
> Drive blade angles (I'm 99% sure they are all the same but for the sake
of a
> 5 min check its worth it)
>
> Beyond that I will probably get my prop balanced as soon as I can find a
> shop that can do it.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts
>
> Frank
>
> HDS Stratus w Ram heads 322 hours
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of The Meiste's
> To: stratus-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
>
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
>
> > Twice after adjusting tension and doing a run-up, it loosened. I had
> > the bolts torqued to spec. The tracking is a pain. Right now it's
> > right at .003" but toward the front sprocket. The belt squeaks when I
> > pull the
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks Bill,
I did not pull the prop because when I adjusted the tension (too loose) the
vibration levels reduced significantly.
I can now feel the "run-rum" vibration which is more about belt than
anything else. My guess is that the prop is imbalanced some way and is
exascerbating the vibration from the belt.
Right now the vibration is acceptable but smoother would be nicer...I can
still feel it in my toes.
The new belt now has 4 hours and it needs to be tightened one more time just
by reaching through the huge cowl opening and pressing the belt checking
method....Checked hot.
As to the carb balance, yes this will indeed cause a vibration...For a while
I lived with an imbalance (on the EGT'S) just above idle that settled out
even in cruise. One day I was coming back from a X country and the vibration
started picking up (as did the production of my sweat glands...Gee was the
engine going to drop another guide?...:)..).
It was time to change the belt/bearings anyway.
While I had the belt drive apart I fired the engine up and ran it to
cruise...Yep there was the vibration....Pulled on one throttle cable and not
the other...it smoothed right out.
So I now set the cables even that's as far as I got.
I would like to get it spot on but I have had little success with carb
balancers in the past...but that was on large twins...A four might be
better.
Anyone know of a carb balancer that will work well?
FRank
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Frank,
I was getting ready to have my prop balanced as well but I decided to hold
off and try a couple of things first.
- Pull the prop and check the status of vibration at various RPMs
- Check and tighten belt tension as needed.
- Did you check the belt tension HOT? Mine is gets quite a bit tighter
when warmed up.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Frank,
I think I'm going to buy a carb balancing setup, I'm sure my carbs are not
setup properly. Seems like this would be a good thing to check on the
annual to make sure it is right. The two I have come accross are:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/912carbsync.htm
They sell the vacuum gauge type. Lockwood Aviation sells the same gauge set
for the same price $79.95
There is also on from the UK called carbtune. It works like a mercury
monometer setup but uses stainless rods in tubes in lieu of mercury so the
is no danger in flipping it around. Cost is about $70.00 plus shipping.
You can see this one at http://www.carbtune.com/carbdtls.html
Bill
> While I had the belt drive apart I fired the engine up and ran it to
> cruise...Yep there was the vibration....Pulled on one throttle cable and
not
> the other...it smoothed right out.
>
> So I now set the cables even that's as far as I got.
>
> I would like to get it spot on but I have had little success with carb
> balancers in the past...but that was on large twins...A four might be
> better.
>
> Anyone know of a carb balancer that will work well?
>
> FRank
>
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
>
> Frank,
>
> I was getting ready to have my prop balanced as well but I decided to hold
> off and try a couple of things first.
>
> - Pull the prop and check the status of vibration at various RPMs
> - Check and tighten belt tension as needed.
> - Did you check the belt tension HOT? Mine is gets quite a bit tighter
> when warmed up.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
You will probably find the same thing at your local motorcycle store and
thus save shipping.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Morelli
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: Prop/belt vibration
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Frank,
I think I'm going to buy a carb balancing setup, I'm sure my carbs are not
setup properly. Seems like this would be a good thing to check on the annual
to make sure it is right. The two I have come accross are:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/912carbsync.htm
They sell the vacuum gauge type. Lockwood Aviation sells the same gauge set
for the same price $79.95
There is also on from the UK called carbtune. It works like a mercury
monometer setup but uses stainless rods in tubes in lieu of mercury so the
is no danger in flipping it around. Cost is about $70.00 plus shipping.
You can see this one at http://www.carbtune.com/carbdtls.html
Bill
> While I had the belt drive apart I fired the engine up and ran it to
> cruise...Yep there was the vibration....Pulled on one throttle cable
> and
not
> the other...it smoothed right out.
>
> So I now set the cables even that's as far as I got.
>
> I would like to get it spot on but I have had little success with carb
> balancers in the past...but that was on large twins...A four might be
> better.
>
> Anyone know of a carb balancer that will work well?
>
> FRank
>
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli"
> --> <billvt@together.net>
>
> Frank,
>
> I was getting ready to have my prop balanced as well but I decided to
> hold off and try a couple of things first.
>
> - Pull the prop and check the status of vibration at various RPMs
> - Check and tighten belt tension as needed.
> - Did you check the belt tension HOT? Mine is gets quite a bit
> tighter when warmed up.
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 6
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--> Stratus-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
My friend owns a motorcycle shop and I asked him to do the carb balance when
I first got it. He said take a small drill bit (I used 1/16") and put the
shank under the slide to make sure they are mechanically synced. I did that
when I hooked up the cables and the engine w/o prop was perfect so I never
did the vacuum sync. I'd like to do that now. Do you guys want to split
one? I can get one for cost and mail it to the next guy after I use it.
Just a thought, if not I'll just borrow his.
Gary
Message 7
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--> Stratus-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I borrowed a differential pressure meter...an industrial one.
I set the carbs using the eyeball mthod so I will see how much better I can
dial it it...That should tell us if its worth doing the guage method.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
Subject: Stratus-List: carb sync
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
My friend owns a motorcycle shop and I asked him to do the carb balance when
I first got it. He said take a small drill bit (I used 1/16") and put the
shank under the slide to make sure they are mechanically synced. I did that
when I hooked up the cables and the engine w/o prop was perfect so I never
did the vacuum sync. I'd like to do that now. Do you guys want to split
one? I can get one for cost and mail it to the next guy after I use it.
Just a thought, if not I'll just borrow his.
Gary
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 8
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--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Frank,
Seems to me the eyeball method would be fine assuming that both sides of
the engine are pulling the same vacuum. If they are not for whatever
reason, then having the throttles mechanically matched would be incorrect
and the pneumatic method would be needed to get the carbs moving the same
amount of fuel / air.
Does that make any sense?
Bill
> I borrowed a differential pressure meter...an industrial one.
>
> I set the carbs using the eyeball mthod so I will see how much better I
can
> dial it it...That should tell us if its worth doing the guage method.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
> To: stratus-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Stratus-List: carb sync
>
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "gary" <FlyinK@Efortress.com>
>
> My friend owns a motorcycle shop and I asked him to do the carb balance
when
> I first got it. He said take a small drill bit (I used 1/16") and put the
> shank under the slide to make sure they are mechanically synced. I did
that
> when I hooked up the cables and the engine w/o prop was perfect so I never
> did the vacuum sync. I'd like to do that now. Do you guys want to split
> one? I can get one for cost and mail it to the next guy after I use it.
> Just a thought, if not I'll just borrow his.
>
> Gary
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 9
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--> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Do you guys want to split
> one? I can get one for cost and mail it to the next guy after I use it.
> Just a thought, if not I'll just borrow his.
>
> Gary
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gary, Bill, Frank, ?,
I purchased one of these vacuum gauges about a half dozen years ago to use
on my Ultralight with dual Bing carbs, but the darn thing ran so good I
never used it. If one of you would like to try using it please let me know
(can't guarantee how well it will work as I never tried it) I'd be glad to
send it out ASAP.
Kelly
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Prop/belt vibration |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
In a message dated 5/1/2004 11:41:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
FlyinK@efortress.com writes:
the adjustment method I use is what Folis recommended - when cold, about
1/4" play at the tip. this goes to 0" when warm. I'll try your method too
Kelly. i'd like to try different tensions to see how it affects noise. I
actually "saw" the infamous rum-rum noise (as described years ago on
airsoob) on my plane. I saw the prop flexing forward and back (coning out)
and kindof wobbling in a 1 second or so interval. the sound matched the
prop wobble. not sure how 2-blade vs 3-blade, cowling shape, belt tension,
etc add up together.
This is the harmonic vibration I talked about in my previous posts. The
engine and prop rotates at different speeds and hence any balance issues would
show up as what you call "rum-rum". I have noted that my props would flutter
(flex back and forth) at certain rpms where the harmonic vibration would be
greatest.
My solution to that problem was to have my props balances and *voila!* the
rum-rum went away and I celebrated with a shot of rum!
So, if you have rum-rum, you need to balance the props after properly setting
up your belt tension and making sure all three blades are pitched equally.
Dick
Message 11
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--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Kelly,
I would like to try it. Maybe you could send it USPS priority mail so I
could try it this coming weekend. I would of course reimburse you for the
shipping.
If that's OK, my address is 105 brick Church Rd., Fairfax, VT 05454
Thanks,
Bill
> [Original Message]
> From: The Meiste's <meiste@essex1.com>
> To: <stratus-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 5/3/2004 10:18:19 PM
> Subject: Stratus-List: Vac Gauge
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
> Do you guys want to split
> > one? I can get one for cost and mail it to the next guy after I use it.
> > Just a thought, if not I'll just borrow his.
> >
> > Gary
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Gary, Bill, Frank, ?,
> I purchased one of these vacuum gauges about a half dozen years ago to use
> on my Ultralight with dual Bing carbs, but the darn thing ran so good I
> never used it. If one of you would like to try using it please let me know
> (can't guarantee how well it will work as I never tried it) I'd be glad to
> send it out ASAP.
>
> Kelly
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Starter problem |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com
In a message dated 5/2/2004 3:41:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
larrymc@qconline.com writes:
I found the 7.5 amp fuse protecting the ignition start blown
on the battery bus. On further inspection, the #4 cable from the battery
was loose under the starter stud/nut, probably hadn't been tightened since
the engine
was reinstalled.
Is the 7.5 amp fuse protecting the #4 cable? When you start your engine, the
battery may be supplying up to 100 amps to the starter. That would blow the
fuse.
I have no fuse protecting the starter.
Please clarify and I might be able to help...
Dick
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