Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (LarryMcFarland)
2. 07:17 AM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
3. 09:35 AM - Bing Carb Type 64 adjustments INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 (LarryMcFarland)
4. 09:52 AM - Re: Bing Carb Type 64 adjustments INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 12:34 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 12:59 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Bryan Martin)
7. 01:02 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (John Karnes)
8. 01:04 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 01:11 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Bryan Martin)
10. 01:18 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 07:12 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (John Karnes)
12. 09:50 PM - Re: Forced landing in Ohio (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Bryan,
Sorry to read of your engine problems. I've attached a record of the
jetting and setup for my Stratus with Ram
Performance heads, larger valves, springs etc. Definitely worth the
effort to have Ram do your heads.
I would disagree with Frank on the valves, because the larger valves
Ram uses are better material and the jet
sizes are known and proven for this setup. I have a 2.76 mid-range jet,
a 176 main jet, the circlip on my
jet needle (with 2 identity rings) on the third notch from the top, and
are using the original foam filters to maintain
a restricted flow of air for proper mixture and exhaust gas
temperatures. These are from 1350 to 1450 degrees.
I'm going to try a 178 main jet to reduce the full throttle EGTs by 25
to 50-degrees F. Cruise at 4600 rpm has
EGTs in level flight at about 1375-deg F.
The Ram performance heads sound a little better and needs these jets to
compensate for more airflow. The
larger valves and heavier springs, with better porting increases
performance a bit and is very worth while.
If I can be of any further assist, please just ask.
Larry McFarland
Bryan Martin wrote:
>--> Stratus-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
>I was planning to fly down to Sun 'N' Fun on the first of April in my
>Zodiac. The weather that morning in the Detroit area was crappy so I waited
>around until noon. At that time there was a 2000 foot overcast with 3000
>foot tops and it had quit raining. The weather south of Ohio was reported as
>clear so I decided to take off and see. I flew under the Detroit class B at
>about 1500 feet and started to see some breaks in the overcast.
>
>An hour into the flight I was just southeast of the Toledo class C when the
>engine suddenly started shaking and lost about 600 RPM. I was about 5 miles
>north of Wood County Airport (1G0) so I pulled the throttle and started
>gliding towards the airport. All my guages were in the green and the engine
>stayed running but very rough. When I got down to about 200 feet above the
>ground with nothing but plowed fields and a crowded freeway below me I
>realized I wasn't going to be able to glide to the airport. The engine was
>still making power so I shoved the throttle back in and managed to get about
>200 feet per minute climb rate out of it. It was enough to get me lined up
>on runway 18 with a 15 knot crosswind directly from the west. I called up
>the unicom and anounced my intentions and then made a safe landing.
>
>After I taxied up to the terminal, I shut it down and got out and started
>looking for the trouble. Everything looked OK from the outside of the
>engine. No oil or coolant leaks and no appearant damage. I didn't have
>enough tools with me to do muc troubleshooting so I barrowed the courtesy
>car to go down to the store to buy a spark plug wrench. I finally determined
>that I had no compression on the number 1 cylinder and when I pulled that
>plug, there was impact damage to the electrode. My preliminary determination
>was some sort of valve train failure. Since I couldn't do much to fix the
>problem right then and it wasn't fit to fly home, I tied it down for the
>night and called to reserve a rental car.
>
>The folks at Wood County treated me very well they even offered to put the
>plane in a hangar for the night. One of the instructors was giving a lesson
>that day and gave me a ride up to Toledo Express Airport so I could pick up
>my rental, saving me the expense of a taxi ride.
>
>I drove the rental home that night and the next day drove up to Midland to
>get my trailer and my dad and brother to help me recover the airplane. We
>then drove down to Bowling Green to tear down the plane for the haul back
>home. The people at the airport let me use put the plane in a hangar to
>dissasemble it for the trip back. It's a good thing they did, it was pouring
>down rain by the time we got done loading in the trailer. We got the plane
>back to my hangar at Ray and got the rental returned to the local depot and
>got back to Midland at about 2 AM. Monday evening, I decided to use some of
>my frequent flyer miles to complete the trip to Lakeland and let the
>airplane wait until I got back.
>
>Today I finally got to my hangar to start tearing down the engine to see
>what went wrong. I heard stories about valve guide failures in some of the
>EA81 engines so I thought I might find the same thing with mine. It turns
>out that the problem wasn't the valve guides. A big chunk of the intake
>valve in the number 1 cylinder broke off and did mayhem inside the engine.
>The piston had a bunch of holes in it and had several cracks clear across
>the face of the piston. The piston skirt must also be all broken up because
>you can rock the piston back and forth in the cylinder. There also seems to
>be some collateral damage to the intake valve in the number 3 cylinder,
>probably by bits of metal getting blown back into the intake manifold. Our
>resident engine expert took a look at the valve and decided that it was a
>fatigue failure possibly caused by a slight misalignment of the valve. There
>is some evidence that the valve was hitting harder on one side of the port
>than the other. I've put 145 hours on the engiine since I bought from
>Stratus.
>
>I plan on pulling off the other head to check it and will probably send both
>of them off to RAM for rebuild.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ya I would have to agree with this posistion Larry, as you wrote down
your jet sizes (which I should have done too save folks a bunch of work)
then the better material and proven longevity of the Ram setup makes the
larger valves worthwile...Why change a good thing even if I did not
detect any performance increase.
Incidently, even though I did not write down my jet sizes I am almost
sure I ended up with a 180 main jet so you might order two sizes while
your in the ordering mood. I found that Bing would accept returns minus
a 10% restocking fee.
Incidently....with the single valve spring it sure is nice to be able to
see all those shiny Phospher bronze guides sitting in the correct place
when one ajusts the valve clearance...:)
Cheers
Frank
I would disagree with Frank on the valves, because the larger valves
Ram uses are better material and the jet sizes are known and proven for
this setup. I have a 2.76 mid-range jet, a 176 main jet, the circlip on
my jet needle (with 2 identity rings) on the third notch from the top,
and are using the original foam filters to maintain a restricted flow of
air for proper mixture and exhaust gas temperatures. These are from
1350 to 1450 degrees.
I'm going to try a 178 main jet to reduce the full throttle EGTs by 25
to 50-degrees F. Cruise at 4600 rpm has EGTs in level flight at about
1375-deg F.
The Ram performance heads sound a little better and needs these jets to
compensate for more airflow. The larger valves and heavier springs,
with better porting increases performance a bit and is very worth while.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Bing Carb Type 64 adjustments INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 |
-2.0210
--> Stratus-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
The necessity of changing jets can be a stress raiser if you've not done
it before, but I've made most of the mistakes and can finally comment
that theres little to worry about, but there are a few things that make
the job safer and easier for Bing Type 64 carburetors.
Disassembly can be done right on the engine and should not be a problem
with the Stratus Subaru setup. Fuel valves should be shut off. You do
need a Bing Manual the first time or so as it offers very specific
guidance on everything.
Air filters are removed and the intake tube opening covered with a shop
rag to prevent dropping anything into the intake. Then the throttle
cables and enrichment (choke) cable lugs need to be disconnected.
Rotating the enrichment lever against the spring allows removing the lug
and cable. The throttle cable bracket is disconnected at one end to
allow it to be pivoted from over the enrichment return spring. The
spring is disconnected and set aside. Two large Phillips top cover
screws are removed. Anything that would prevent lifting the cover
vertically a couple of inches should be removed.
The throttle is closed to prevent anything from dropping into the
intake. The cap, jet needle housing, diaphragm and large spring are
lifted off and rotated out of the way. The large spring and jet needle
housing is set aside. Note the jet protruding inside the bottom of the
carburetor body.
The jet needle is accessible only after a large blade screwdriver is
used to unscrew the threaded retainer from within the topside of the
tube. Using too small a screwdriver can easily damage the retainer slot
and make it non removable, so grind a large one down to fit inside the
tube if necessary. Remove the needle and adjust the circlip as
necessary. Note the jet needle identity size by counting the rings, not
the notches for the circlip.
The lower fuel float reservoir spring is pivoted to the rear and up
enough to allow the reservoir and floats to be lowered, removed and set
aside.
Before removing the main jet and mid-range jets, take a 6-inch piece of
.020 stainless safety wire and insert it down thru the opening of the
jets allowing 2-inches to protrude out the bottom. Bend the wire to
prevent loosing the small jets as they are removed. The main jet is
removed first. Take note of the size of the main jet and set it aside.
The mid-range jet is removed second and all successive parts are removed
on the wire to keep them from dropping out of sight. Sizes are only
found stamped on the main and mid-range jets. Make changes as needed and
take note of the arrangement of the jets shown on the Bing exploded view
to be sure that the jets are reassembled in proper order.
For reverse assembly, be careful to not stub the jet body end going back
into the carburetor body. Be careful to not damage the reservoir gasket
on reassembly. Be careful about alignment of the diaphragm key,
alignment of the jet needle, the enrichment lug, and final throttle
cable position etc.
Small wrenches used to remove the jets and throttle nuts are 8mm, 9mm
and 10mm combination open and closed end. These are easily purchased as
a set of small ignition wrenches in a plastic envelope from Sears. If
you do drop a 10mm nut into the intake as I did once, you can remove it
with a high-powered vacuum sweeper by opening the intake valves one side
at a time with the spark plug removed while rotating the engine slowly
by hand. Just dont make that mistake!
Have a good day.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Bing Carb Type 64 adjustments INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 |
1.0000 -2.0210
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks Larry...I was told since my earliest days (and maybe it is an old
wives tale) to never poke wire through the middle of a jet...So I didn't
and it was still pretty simple to do.
The other point was the one I think you made (and is called out in the
Bing Carb manual) is to use a color tune to set the idle jet...Marvelous
device. If your brave like me (or stupid depending on your perspective)
and don't remove the prop be very careful as you use the color tune,
both from the rotating blade hitting you in the head and the fact the
engine is now under some load which increases the cylinder
pressure...ypu could if you revved up the engine have the color tune
window explode into your eye!
But don't let any of this worry you....:)
Frank
Before removing the main jet and mid-range jets, take a 6-inch piece of
.020 stainless safety wire and insert it down thru the opening of the
jets allowing 2-inches to protrude out the bottom. Bend the wire to
prevent loosing the small jets as they are removed. The main jet is
removed first. Take note of the size of the main jet and set it aside.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hey Bryan,
Out of interest, were the guides still in position and not broken...Just
wondering if the guide slipped and caused the valve to fail, maybe by
catching a chunk under the seat or between piston and valve head?
Just a thought...
Frank
Do not archive
I was planning to fly down to Sun 'N' Fun on the first of April in my
Zodiac. The weather that morning in the Detroit area was crappy so I
waited around until noon. At that time there was a 2000
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The valve guides all seem to be intact and in their proper position. The
valve doesn't have any play in the guide.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
on 4/10/06 3:34 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hey Bryan,
>
> Out of interest, were the guides still in position and not broken...Just
> wondering if the guide slipped and caused the valve to fail, maybe by
> catching a chunk under the seat or between piston and valve head?
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Frank
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes2000@msn.com>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I wonder if Mykal replaced the guides or if they are the original from
Subaru...What are they made of?...Bronze or cast iron?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Martin
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Forced landing in Ohio
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The valve guides all seem to be intact and in their proper position. The
valve doesn't have any play in the guide.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
on 4/10/06 3:34 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at
frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Hey Bryan,
>
> Out of interest, were the guides still in position and not
broken...Just
> wondering if the guide slipped and caused the valve to fail, maybe by
> catching a chunk under the seat or between piston and valve head?
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Frank
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
They appear to be bronze, they are gold colored.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
on 4/10/06 4:03 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I wonder if Mykal replaced the guides or if they are the original from
> Subaru...What are they made of?...Bronze or cast iron?
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
> Martin
> Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:59 PM
> To: Stratus List
> Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Forced landing in Ohio
>
> --> Stratus-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> --> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> The valve guides all seem to be intact and in their proper position. The
> valve doesn't have any play in the guide.
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
>
>
>
> on 4/10/06 3:34 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at
> frank.hinde@hp.com
> wrote:
>
>> --> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>> Hey Bryan,
>>
>> Out of interest, were the guides still in position and not
> broken...Just
>> wondering if the guide slipped and caused the valve to fail, maybe by
>> catching a chunk under the seat or between piston and valve head?
>>
>> Just a thought...
>>
>> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Then they have definatly been replaced by Stratus. When you send them to
Ram, just ask him to have a quick look and tell you why he thinks the
valve might have failed, before he pops the guides out of course.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan
Martin
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Forced landing in Ohio
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
--> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
They appear to be bronze, they are gold colored.
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes2000@msn.com>
After an overheating incident in 2002 and resulting blown head gaskets, I had the
engine rebuilt by Mykal. I have been flying since then with the belief that
the valve guides were trustworthy since they were redone during the rebuild.
After the current discussion, I have decided to not fly until the valve guides
are installed by RAM. Thanks, guys, for the advice and support!=0D=0A=0D=0AJohn
Karnes=0D=0AZenith 601 HDS=0D=0ASuquamish, WA
Message 12
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| Subject: | Forced landing in Ohio |
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Good for you John!
One of my so called improved circlipped phospher bronze guides failed
just like the other two failures that Stratus did!
Its amazing the excuses I got as to why that happened...."You over
heated it!"...no I didn't and even if I did so what?...Guides should
still NEVER come out....You ran both ignitions at the same time and the
two ignitions interferred with each other!....Oh really?....fuzzy logic
if ever I herd it..Yeah and so what?....The Moon is made of green cheese
too but ...OH ok that was my addition.
I kid you not the first two reasons were bonafide excuses I got from
Mykal as to why it was my fault the guides fell out.
If anyone else is reading this and is still driving around the sky
without RAM heads...well you're a braver man than I am!
All of this is just my humble (not) opinion having researched and made
my own valve guides and seats for my old air cooled Norton...guides
never fell out of that motor for sure and they won't out of a RAM head
either!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Karnes
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Forced landing in Ohio
--> Stratus-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes2000@msn.com>
After an overheating incident in 2002 and resulting blown head gaskets,
I had the engine rebuilt by Mykal. I have been flying since then with
the belief that the valve guides were trustworthy since they were redone
during the rebuild. After the current discussion, I have decided to not
fly until the valve guides are installed by RAM. Thanks, guys, for the
advice and support!=0D=0A=0D=0AJohn Karnes=0D=0AZenith 601
HDS=0D=0ASuquamish, WA
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