Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:55 PM - Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem (ron hansen)
2. 06:31 PM - Re: Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem ()
3. 06:44 PM - Re: [Probable Spam] Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem (Larry McFarland)
4. 09:53 PM - Fw: Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem (ron hansen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem |
Hi listers,
I've been quiet a long time due to life interfering with my plans, but I
need some help. I had about 60 hours on my 601HDS with a Stratus on it. I
was fighting temp. issues from the start, adjusting the carb jets and such.
I had Ram modify the heads before it flew. Anyway, I never went past the
Stratus 230 deg. "water temp" redline, but often approached it. Taxiing in
after 60 flight hours I broke a valve seat and later learned broke a
piston. I have not been pleased with Stratus support for years so I had Ram
Performance rebuild the engine. He also made some other changes and it now
runs stronger and cooler, but still not cool enough. I moved the "water
temp" probe from the Stratus setup in the cylinder head dry-hole to actual
water as it comes out of the engine. Ram says water temp redline should be
220 deg. and the engine should run at the thermostat setting of 190 deg.
Research I've done would indicate the same for long engine life.
Anyway, I still get water temp climbing to 220 a few minutes after takeoff
on a warm day and I suspect it would go higher. My radiator is the stock
Zenair radiator installed per plans. Gaps are sealed. Coolant is 50/50 per
instructions. I'm beginning to think the Zenith setup is not suitable for a
100HP engine that is water cooled. The Rotax they designed it for only uses
water to cool the heads.
I don't want to ruin my new Ram-rebuilt engine. It is running really well:
stronger, cooler, lower fuel burn......but it's not running at the temps it
should do to a weak cooling system. If anyone has data or ideas that would
help I would appreciate hearing from you. I recall all sorts of discussion
from years past (this plane took me many years to build from plans), but I
can't remember where all those ideas ended up. I know some were abandoned,
but others probably solved some or all of the problem. I've gone through
the archives, but you never know if you're missing something important that
came later.
Thanks,
Ron Hansen
Los Angeles
601HDS, Ram-Rebuilt (formerly Stratus) Subaru EA81
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem |
My system has been pretty good since Al sold me his old radiator - 3" thick, 16"
wide core (21" total with a small tank on each side) and about 5" tall. I reworked
the exhaust to move the muffler out of the cowling and under the belly,
and air flows over the oil pan as well as through the radiator.
In TX, it stays around 95 - 100 degrees F in the summer and I can't sustain full-power
climbs without banging against the redlines so I step climb. I'm reworking
things again and I'm hoping it will be much better. I had the radiator
and oil pan sharing the same inlet duct and I will be separating them, and trying
an exhaust-augmented outlet duct. I hope to be done within a few weeks of
fiddling and will post results and pictures.
Gary Krysztopik
Pelican w/Stratus EA-81
San Antonio, TX
---- ron hansen <ronhansen123@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi listers,
>
> I've been quiet a long time due to life interfering with my plans, but I
> need some help. I had about 60 hours on my 601HDS with a Stratus on it. I
> was fighting temp. issues from the start, adjusting the carb jets and such.
> I had Ram modify the heads before it flew. Anyway, I never went past the
> Stratus 230 deg. "water temp" redline, but often approached it. Taxiing in
> after 60 flight hours I broke a valve seat and later learned broke a
> piston. I have not been pleased with Stratus support for years so I had Ram
> Performance rebuild the engine. He also made some other changes and it now
> runs stronger and cooler, but still not cool enough. I moved the "water
> temp" probe from the Stratus setup in the cylinder head dry-hole to actual
> water as it comes out of the engine. Ram says water temp redline should be
> 220 deg. and the engine should run at the thermostat setting of 190 deg.
> Research I've done would indicate the same for long engine life.
>
> Anyway, I still get water temp climbing to 220 a few minutes after takeoff
> on a warm day and I suspect it would go higher. My radiator is the stock
> Zenair radiator installed per plans. Gaps are sealed. Coolant is 50/50 per
> instructions. I'm beginning to think the Zenith setup is not suitable for a
> 100HP engine that is water cooled. The Rotax they designed it for only uses
> water to cool the heads.
>
> I don't want to ruin my new Ram-rebuilt engine. It is running really well:
> stronger, cooler, lower fuel burn......but it's not running at the temps it
> should do to a weak cooling system. If anyone has data or ideas that would
> help I would appreciate hearing from you. I recall all sorts of discussion
> from years past (this plane took me many years to build from plans), but I
> can't remember where all those ideas ended up. I know some were abandoned,
> but others probably solved some or all of the problem. I've gone through
> the archives, but you never know if you're missing something important that
> came later.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Hansen
> Los Angeles
> 601HDS, Ram-Rebuilt (formerly Stratus) Subaru EA81
Message 3
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| Subject: | Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem |
HI Ron,
The cooling issue is very common, but coolant temps should never see more
than 200 on a hot day in a perpetual climb. My cowl opening just ahead of
the oil pan for some reason cools better in a climb than going fast flat and
level. As you've done the jetting, you might consider the propeller pitch.
My Warp Drive 70-inch 3 blade set for 17-1/2 degrees per their instrument
does a much better job of cooling flat out at or near
120 mph. The pitch allows lower rpms, better speed. I trim nose down
carefully to get best speed by setting rpms to 4300 for best fuel burn until
the rate of climb gage indicates level flight. You feel the center of lift
move slightly back on the wing and get optimum cooling this way too. Odd, I
flew for a year or more before realizing that trimming in the last bit of
down elevator at a cruise rpm would increase performance and cooling so
much. Used to also worry that the nose was always slightly up before
discovering this.
I seldom fly flat out as there's no way to justify the fuel burn and engine
wear at 5000 rpm.
Note the links show the hole in front of the oil pan and heat from the
exhaust pipes is fed cool air either side of the cowl looking straight in
at aluminum sleeve clearance aluminum. They made a significant difference.
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowelfrtlower.gif
Hope this helps,
Fly safe
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron hansen
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 5:53 PM
Subject: [Probable Spam] Stratus-List: Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling
problem
Hi listers,
I've been quiet a long time due to life interfering with my plans, but I
need some help. I had about 60 hours on my 601HDS with a Stratus on it. I
was fighting temp. issues from the start, adjusting the carb jets and such.
I had Ram modify the heads before it flew. Anyway, I never went past the
Stratus 230 deg. "water temp" redline, but often approached it. Taxiing in
after 60 flight hours I broke a valve seat and later learned broke a piston.
I have not been pleased with Stratus support for years so I had Ram
Performance rebuild the engine. He also made some other changes and it now
runs stronger and cooler, but still not cool enough. I moved the "water
temp" probe from the Stratus setup in the cylinder head dry-hole to actual
water as it comes out of the engine. Ram says water temp redline should be
220 deg. and the engine should run at the thermostat setting of 190 deg.
Research I've done would indicate the same for long engine life.
Anyway, I still get water temp climbing to 220 a few minutes after takeoff
on a warm day and I suspect it would go higher. My radiator is the stock
Zenair radiator installed per plans. Gaps are sealed. Coolant is 50/50 per
instructions. I'm beginning to think the Zenith setup is not suitable for a
100HP engine that is water cooled. The Rotax they designed it for only uses
water to cool the heads.
I don't want to ruin my new Ram-rebuilt engine. It is running really well:
stronger, cooler, lower fuel burn......but it's not running at the temps it
should do to a weak cooling system. If anyone has data or ideas that would
help I would appreciate hearing from you. I recall all sorts of discussion
from years past (this plane took me many years to build from plans), but I
can't remember where all those ideas ended up. I know some were abandoned,
but others probably solved some or all of the problem. I've gone through
the archives, but you never know if you're missing something important that
came later.
Thanks,
Ron Hansen
Los Angeles
601HDS, Ram-Rebuilt (formerly Stratus) Subaru EA81
Message 4
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| Subject: | Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling problem |
Thanks, Larry.
I think I have the mixture problem solved. Ram did a dyno test and measure
d
exhaust components and said they were good. 101 measured HP was also nice.
After repairing the broken valve seat and other damage that caused, Ron Car
r
at Ram dynoed the engine first with the timing per Stratus specs and only
got 83HP. Then he changed (advanced) the timing to his specs and it came u
p
to 101HP. Now it runs stronger, cooler, and burns less gas.
I haven't thought about prop setting. I have the same Warp 3 blade set to
12.5 degrees relative to the prop hub, not the horizon. Is that how your
pitch is measured? I get 4875 RPM on early takeoff roll. I can't hold
brakes at full throttle. What takeoff RPM are you getting at 17.5 degrees?
Climb is great even at max GW of 1320#. I still don't quite get to 5300 RP
M
in any flight regime other than a descent so I figured I was about right.
I've tested lower and higher pitches, but not since the rebuild that added
so much HP. I can certainly play with prop pitch again and see what
happens. Although I think I will probably need a major rebuild of the
radiator, before I do that I may do things like prop pitch, lower the
antifreeze component from 50% to 25%, and try "Water Wetter" which seems to
have sound followers that say it works and few downsides that I've seen.
I see your radiator is moved well back vs. the Zenith plans. Do you know
how much that helped the cooling and are you still making the glass intake
to sell? The rest seems fairly straight forward. I built from scratch so
although I was hoping to avoid another major change and just fly, I can do
the work if needed.
Thanks again for the help,
Ron
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Larry McFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Stratus-List: Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling
problem
HI Ron,****
The cooling issue is very common, but coolant temps should never see more
than 200 on a hot day in a perpetual climb. My cowl opening just ahead of
the oil pan for some reason cools better in a climb than going fast flat an
d
level. As you=92ve done the jetting, you might consider the propeller
pitch. My Warp Drive 70-inch 3 blade set for 17-1/2 degrees per their
instrument does a much better job of cooling flat out at or near****
120 mph. The pitch allows lower rpms, better speed. I trim nose down
carefully to get best speed by setting rpms to 4300 for best fuel burn unti
l
the rate of climb gage indicates level flight. You feel the center of lift
move slightly back on the wing and get optimum cooling this way too. Odd,
I
flew for a year or more before realizing that trimming in the last bit of
down elevator at a cruise rpm would increase performance and cooling so
much. Used to also worry that the nose was always slightly up before
discovering this.****
I seldom fly flat out as there=92s no way to justify the fuel burn and engi
ne
wear at 5000 rpm.****
Note the links show the hole in front of the oil pan and heat from the
exhaust pipes is fed cool air either side of the cowl looking straight in**
*
*
at aluminum sleeve clearance aluminum. They made a significant difference.
****
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601ezclosefrtrt.gif****
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/cowelfrtlower.gif****
Hope this helps,****
Fly safe****
** **
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com****
****
** **
** **
*From:* owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *ron hansen
*Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2011 5:53 PM
*To:* stratus-list@matronics.com
*Subject:* [Probable Spam] Stratus-List: Zenair601HDS Stratus/Ram cooling
problem****
** **
Hi listers,
I've been quiet a long time due to life interfering with my plans, but I
need some help. I had about 60 hours on my 601HDS with a Stratus on it. I
was fighting temp. issues from the start, adjusting the carb jets and such.
I had Ram modify the heads before it flew. Anyway, I never went past the
Stratus 230 deg. "water temp" redline, but often approached it. Taxiing in
after 60 flight hours I broke a valve seat and later learned broke a
piston. I have not been pleased with Stratus support for years so I had Ra
m
Performance rebuild the engine. He also made some other changes and it now
runs stronger and cooler, but still not cool enough. I moved the "water
temp" probe from the Stratus setup in the cylinder head dry-hole to actual
water as it comes out of the engine. Ram says water temp redline should be
220 deg. and the engine should run at the thermostat setting of 190 deg.
Research I've done would indicate the same for long engine life.
Anyway, I still get water temp climbing to 220 a few minutes after takeoff
on a warm day and I suspect it would go higher. My radiator is the stock
Zenair radiator installed per plans. Gaps are sealed. Coolant is 50/50 pe
r
instructions. I'm beginning to think the Zenith setup is not suitable for
a
100HP engine that is water cooled. The Rotax they designed it for only use
s
water to cool the heads.
I don't want to ruin my new Ram-rebuilt engine. It is running really well:
stronger, cooler, lower fuel burn......but it's not running at the temps it
should do to a weak cooling system. If anyone has data or ideas that would
help I would appreciate hearing from you. I recall all sorts of discussion
from years past (this plane took me many years to build from plans), but I
can't remember where all those ideas ended up. I know some were abandoned,
but others probably solved some or all of the problem. I've gone through
the archives, but you never know if you're missing something important that
came later.
Thanks,
Ron Hansen
Los Angeles
601HDS, Ram-Rebuilt (formerly Stratus) Subaru EA81****
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