Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:12 AM - Some Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: It Finally Happened to ME! Update (Larry McFarland)
2. 08:54 AM - Re: It Finally Happened to ME! (Tim)
3. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: It Finally Happened to ME! Update (ron hansen)
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| Subject: | Some Nice Comments... |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some very nice comments from Listers along with their List Support
Contributions. I've shared a number of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
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You may use a credit card or your PayPal account here:
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Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update |
Hi Andy,
I failed to mention that Ron at Ram Performance, in the course of fixing the
guides also put in a new, more robust set of exhaust valves and polished the
ports.
and a better set of springs. In reflection, it was a bargain. Sounds like
the valve slid into the piston which is possible if the upper retainer let
go.
Thanks for the update.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:00 PM
Subject: Stratus-List: RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update
Well guys here's what I have found after pulling the head on the affected
side this afternoon. The number 2 cyl exhaust valve stem broke just below
the valve head. There is absolutely no sign of any problem with the guides.
Once that valve was loose in the cylinder much damage followed. The
cylinder wall has an extra hole in it and I suspect that sent metal into the
water pump impellor causing damage there. The connecting rod on the number 2
cylinder is bent 90 degrees just aft of the wrist pin connection and that's
when she stopped turning. Inside the cylinder were two golf ball size
pieces of the piston and the wrist pin which looks good as new. Amazing what
did and did not get chewed up. Now I wish I had an answer to the big
question. What caused the valve to break? May never know, but I'd like to
hear what yall may think might have caused a valve to break.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Tim,
My 601HDS Ram modified Subaru is still running at Minneapolis MN, Crystal
Airport. I flew it for 200 hours over 7 years and expect it will for a long
time.
Ron has the best fix and solution to valve guides in an EA81. Very
reliable. When the heads get overly warm, the standard valve guides slip
right into the piston and
really can make a mess of things. The EGTs are a best last ditch solution
to monitoring engine health, i.e., mixture.
You should be able to easily tell if the valve guides were out of position
during examination of the heads. They won't go back in place once they touch
pistons.
Would like to know what you find out though.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Hey Larry,
It was just a stock STRATUS conversion. I knew of a few instances of
valve guide problems, but did not realize that there were so many till mine
failed and I started really looking. I spoke with Ron Carr today and was
very impressed with what he had to say. I am headed to the airport now to
take the head off and have a look inside, but from what I could see with a
scope looking through the spark plug hole, there's not enough of the piston
left tell what happened. Is your RAM modified engine still in use? How
many hours?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Hi Andy,
Sorry to hear of your engine problems, but it would be very useful to other
Subaru users to know if you had the valve guides redone, or were they
dependent upon just circlips to secure the valve guides.
Ron at Ram Performance redid my valve guides and I've not heard of anyone
with his modification having trouble. Lots of failures with just circlips
though. Check your pistons to determine if the tops
were broken or fractured markedly. This is a most likely scenario for that
engine.
If you return to using the Subaru, I'd recommend you get the valve guide
work done, before flying it and add EGTs for each side. It's a good
barometer of your engine performance.
Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus EA81
flying a Piper Cherokee now.
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
In my haste to hit the send button I failed to tell you guys that the engine
is a STRAUTS EA-81 with 287 hours on it.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:12 PM
Subject: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
NOT excited to report a catastrophic engine failure on take off. This past
Saturday I was departing my home field from rwy 36 and at about 450 AGL my
engine started to vibrate violently and then the prop came to an abrupt halt
just after I pushed the nose over and pulled the power (MAYBE two seconds
from first indication of a problem till the prop stopped). I felt that I
had enough altitude to execute a 180 (more like a quick wing-over) and
landed safely on 18. Lots of ground up metal in the oil pan ,but no blood
or anything in cockpit. My guardian angel was riding with me. Really got
my attention. This was the first flight after a Thursday, 1.3 hr Xcountry
at night. The engine was a Stratus EA-81 and there were no warning signs
that I was aware of. The engine was running fine, with all temps and oil
pressure normal, then it wasn't running at all.
I have removed the engine from the airframe and pulled the oil pan which
is holding a double handful of ground up metal bits and there's a hole in
the top of the case. Also found about a half of a handful of bits in the
muffler. Not sure at this time what caused it to come apart, but I'll
continue to try to find out what happened. May never know for sure as many
pieces as it seems to be in. Yall be careful and know what you and you bird
are capable of.
Andy F.
AVID C/Mark IV Extended Speedwing
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
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<http://www.matronics.com/chref=%22http:/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus
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avigator?Stratus-List
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: It Finally Happened to ME! |
Don,
I did not like the under the fuselage placement in that both engine heat
and exaust flow through the radiator. I mounted two heater cores to the
sides of the engine and a third smaller core on the firewall to be used
for cabin heat. When the cabin heat is not in use heat from this one
flows overboard contributing the the cooling. In the attached picture
you can clearly see the left side and part of the right. Air entering
the hole under the prop is directed by partitions in the cowling to flow
across the oil pan. There are two more cooling holes on either side of
the prop, part of one has a duct to the cabin heater and part of the
other a ram tube that directs air over the oil filter.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Walker
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Tim, my temps are running close to what yours are, and sometimes up to
about 210. I have my egt limit set at 1450, and I usually run around
1350 to 1380 in cruise on egt. However, I feel very confident in the
heads Ram built for me, with the new guides, larger ss valves, etc. What
mods did you make to your cooling?
I used to take off with full power, but have decided that is just a
waste and unnecessary unless on a very short strip...so I am more gentle
now. My guide failures were on cold days taking off at full power. It
seems to me the temp differential between the steel and aluminum was a
problem. but that is no problem with the Ram valve job. don
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Tim <tshankland@sbcglobal.net>
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, November 20, 2012 6:09:50 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
I have a question for Stratus users, what is your water temperature. I
am concerned that several people have had one or more instances of valve
guide failure while most do not. I too have a Stratus EA81 with over 200
hours on it and my water runs at 190 degrees F, on long summer climb
outs it can get to 200 degrees. I did not like the cooling system design
supplied by Zenith and spent a year designing my own. Since this failure
is not endemic in cars my question is are many running at higher water
temperature contributiong to this problem.
Tim Shankland
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Fultz
To: stratus-list@matronics.com ; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:11 PM
Subject: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
NOT excited to report a catastrophic engine failure on take off.
This past Saturday I was departing my home field from rwy 36 and at
about 450 AGL my engine started to vibrate violently and then the prop
came to an abrupt halt just after I pushed the nose over and pulled the
power (MAYBE two seconds from first indication of a problem till the
prop stopped). I felt that I had enough altitude to execute a 180 (more
like a quick wing-over) and landed safely on 18. Lots of ground up
metal in the oil pan ,but no blood or anything in cockpit. My guardian
angel was riding with me. Really got my attention. This was the first
flight after a Thursday, 1.3 hr Xcountry at night. The engine was a
Stratus EA-81 and there were no warning signs that I was aware of. The
engine was running fine, with all temps and oil pressure normal, then it
wasn't running at all.
I have removed the engine from the airframe and pulled the oil
pan which is holding a double handful of ground up metal bits and
there's a hole in the top of the case. Also found about a half of a
handful of bits in the muffler. Not sure at this time what caused it to
come apart, but I'll continue to try to find out what happened. May
never know for sure as many pieces as it seems to be in. Yall be
careful and know what you and you bird are capable of.
Andy F.
AVID C/Mark IV Extended Speedwing
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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nics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List
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www.aeroe.buildersbooks.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.comhttp://www.matroniics.com/Navigator?
Stratus-List" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.mf="http://forums.matronics.com/"
rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://fo================
=====
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update |
I have a Zenair 601HDS with a Stratus EA81 w/ Ram modified valves and
re-jetted carbs. I had water cooling problems from the start. Never
over-temped, but had to pull it back to keep from doing so many times as I
tried different fixes to lower water temp.
At about 50 hours just after landing and exiting the runway, a valve seat
broke on #2 cylinder. It broke the piston badly, but did not scratch the
cylinder somehow and head damage was shallow and fixable. Sort of
embarrassing, but when it happened I thought I just had a fouled plug and
ran it up trying to clear it as I taxied in. I could get 3000 RPM and it
was pretty smooth.
Ron at Ram did the autopsy and rebuild. His best guess was long-term minor
head overtemp. The valve seat had an old crack and a new one that was the
last straw. He said that since my EGT probe on the right side picked up
sort of the average of the two cylinders, I could have one cylinder
overheating and the other not. Same story with water temp since it sort of
averages all 4 cylinders. His best guess was that due to the sharp bend in
the intake right before the cylinders, the Stratus setup was putting more
gas in the front cylinder (the bigger droplets don't make the corner well)
and less in the rear, hence the rear was leaner and hotter, out of limits,
but I didn't know it from my gauges. He had discovered that issue years
ago and made an adapter that evened out the fuel distribution. He now is
fuel injection only, but still had the parts and put the flow equalizers in
during the rebuild.
On the dyno before he returned the engine, it was 103HP with good exhaust
gas chemistry. It has run fine since, though initially still warmer than
Ron thought good for long term. I finally got the water temp to a good
place by fashioning sheet metal to go from the bottom cowl to the top of
the radiator. That keeps most of the hot air going by the muffler from
entering the radiator. Five dzus fasteners hold it on so it's a bit more
work to remove the bottom cowl. I didn't want to go thru the work to move
the radiator back and use a scoop, etc.
Regarding my cooling fix experience on my 601/Stratus:
- Data is difficult to interpret because no two flights are alike.
- I did extensive testing of my water temp system to make sure it was
accurate.
- Larry's louvers helped by several degrees.
- Putting small sheet metal "ears" on the sides of the rad inlet to
funnel in more air did nothing to help cooling.
- Wrapping the muffler with heat tape helped by several degrees.
- Water Wetter I thought helped a tiny amount in temp, but really in the
noise. Hopefully there are greater benefits happening per their claims
that don't show on the gauge.
- Changing coolant from 50/50 to 75 water/25 coolant helped a bit.
- Turning the heater on helped a bit when needed. (Small heater core
with coolant through it.)
- Left and right EGTs helped sort out things such as carb balance and
helped monitor things overall, though don't sweat small differences betw
een
sides.
- I tested the Stratus gauge and probe in hot water and oil and they are
not accurate. I never used them in my plane, but got into testing this
as
I searched for solutions.
- Stratus gauge limit of 230 deg. seems very high to Ron, but it may be
that Stratus was accounting for the crap gauge. Ron said the engine sho
uld
run at the thermostat setting of 190 deg. Period. His red-line would be
220 deg. and would mean something isn't working right.
- None of the things above got me to where I was comfortable.
- Adding the sheet metal described above finally got me to a comfortable
situation. On most days even on long climbs water temp does not go abov
e
205 deg. Though when I climbed into a large inversion with 90 deg. OAT
at
3000' it went to 215 and I thought still climbing so I pulled it back a
bit. Still plenty of power to climb. On cooler days, say less than 75
degrees OAT, the water temp never goes past thermostat setting in full
power climb and cycles around 190 deg. by a few degrees as the thermosta
t
cycles. In cruise, water temp is usually 189 deg.
- Ron at Ram is responsive, knows these engines, and does good work.
Stratus is not responsive, doesn't seem to have much interest in these
engines, and I will only go there for parts that are harder to get
elsewhere.
- I have about 50 hours since the Ram rebuild and so far so good.
I think I posted most of this in the past in multiple posts, but thought
I'd put it together since there is current interest. If there are other
cooling ideas out there, I am still interested.
Thanks,
Ron Hansen
Los Angeles
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Andy Fultz <andynfultz@bellsouth.net>wrote
:
> **
> Well guys here's what I have found after pulling the head on the affected
> side this afternoon. The number 2 cyl exhaust valve stem broke just belo
w
> the valve head. There is absolutely no sign of any problem with the
> guides. Once that valve was loose in the cylinder much damage followed.
> The cylinder wall has an extra hole in it and I suspect that sent
> metal into the water pump impellor causing damage there. The connecting r
od
> on the number 2 cylinder is bent 90 degrees just aft of the wrist pin
> connection and that's when she stopped turning. Inside the cylinder were
> two golf ball size pieces of the piston and the wrist pin which looks goo
d
> as new. Amazing what did and did not get chewed up. Now I wish I had an
> answer to the big question. What caused the valve to break? May never
> know, but I'd like to hear what yall may think might have caused a valve
to
> break.
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Larry McFarland
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:46 PM
> *To:* stratus-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
>
> Tim,****
>
> My 601HDS Ram modified Subaru is still running at Minneapolis MN, Crystal
> Airport. I flew it for 200 hours over 7 years and expect it will for a
> long time.****
>
> Ron has the best fix and solution to valve guides in an EA81. Very
> reliable. When the heads get overly warm, the standard valve guides slip
> right into the piston and ****
>
> really can make a mess of things. The EGTs are a best last ditch solutio
n
> to monitoring engine health, i.e., mixture.****
>
> You should be able to easily tell if the valve guides were out of positio
n
> during examination of the heads. They won=92t go back in place once they
> touch pistons.****
>
> Would like to know what you find out though.****
>
> ** **
>
> Larry McFarland****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Fultz
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:04 PM
> *To:* stratus-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!****
>
> ** **
>
> Hey Larry,****
>
> ****
>
> It was just a stock STRATUS conversion. I knew of a few instances of
> valve guide problems, but did not realize that there were so many till mi
ne
> failed and I started really looking. I spoke with Ron Carr today and was
> very impressed with what he had to say. I am headed to the airport now t
o
> take the head off and have a look inside, but from what I could see with
a
> scope looking through the spark plug hole, there's not enough of the pist
on
> left tell what happened. Is your RAM modified engine still in use? How
> many hours?****
>
> ****
>
> Andy F.****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com<owner-stratus-list-server@
matronics.com>
> ]*On Behalf Of *Larry McFarland
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:13 AM
> *To:* stratus-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!****
>
> Hi Andy,****
>
> Sorry to hear of your engine problems, but it would be very useful to
> other Subaru users to know if you had the valve guides redone, or were th
ey
> dependent upon just circlips to secure the valve guides. ****
>
> Ron at Ram Performance redid my valve guides and I=92ve not heard of anyo
ne
> with his modification having trouble. Lots of failures with just circlip
s
> though. Check your pistons to determine if the tops****
>
> were broken or fractured markedly. This is a most likely scenario for
> that engine.****
>
> If you return to using the Subaru, I=92d recommend you get the valve gui
de
> work done, before flying it and add EGTs for each side. It=92s a good
> barometer of your engine performance.****
>
> ** **
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus EA81 ****
>
> flying a Piper Cherokee now.****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com<owner-stratus-list-server@
matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Andy Fultz
> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 9:23 PM
> *To:* stratus-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!****
>
> ** **
>
> In my haste to hit the send button I failed to tell you guys that the
> engine is a STRAUTS EA-81 with 287 hours on it.****
>
> ****
>
> Andy F.****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com<owner-stratus-list-server@
matronics.com>
> ]*On Behalf Of *Andy Fultz
> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2012 9:12 PM
> *To:* stratus-list@matronics.com; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!****
>
> ****
>
> NOT excited to report a catastrophic engine failure on take off. This
> past Saturday I was departing my home field from rwy 36 and at about 450
> AGL my engine started to vibrate violently and then the prop came to an
> abrupt halt just after I pushed the nose over and pulled the power (MAYBE
> two seconds from first indication of a problem till the prop stopped). I
> felt that I had enough altitude to execute a 180 (more like a quick
> wing-over) and landed safely on 18. Lots of ground up metal in the oil p
an
> ,but no blood or anything in cockpit. My guardian angel was riding with
> me. Really got my attention. This was the first flight after a Thursday
,
> 1.3 hr Xcountry at night. The engine was a Stratus EA-81 and there were
> no warning signs that I was aware of. The engine was running fine, with
> all temps and oil pressure normal, then it wasn't running at all. ****
>
> ****
>
> I have removed the engine from the airframe and pulled the oil pan whic
h
> is holding a double handful of ground up metal bits and there's a hole in
> the top of the case. Also found about a half of a handful of bits in
> the muffler. Not sure at this time what caused it to come apart, but I'l
l
> continue to try to find out what happened. May never know for sure as ma
ny
> pieces as it seems to be in. Yall be careful and know what you and you
> bird are capable of.****
>
> ****
>
> Andy F.****
>
> AVID C/Mark IV Extended Speedwing****
>
> * *
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