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1. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: It Finally Happened to ME! Update (Andy Fultz)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: It Finally Happened to ME! Update (Andy Fultz)
3. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: It Finally Happened to ME! Update (jpkarnes@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update |
No Larry, the stem is still in place. Just the valve head broke off the
stem. The stem is still secure in the guide, retainers and springs still in
place.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:50 AM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update
Hi Andy,
I failed to mention that Ron at Ram Performance, in the course of fixing
the guides also put in a new, more robust set of exhaust valves and polished
the ports.
and a better set of springs. In reflection, it was a bargain. Sounds
like the valve slid into the piston which is possible if the upper retainer
let go.
Thanks for the update.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:00 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: Stratus-List: RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update
Well guys here's what I have found after pulling the head on the affected
side this afternoon. The number 2 cyl exhaust valve stem broke just below
the valve head. There is absolutely no sign of any problem with the guides.
Once that valve was loose in the cylinder much damage followed. The
cylinder wall has an extra hole in it and I suspect that sent metal into the
water pump impellor causing damage there. The connecting rod on the number 2
cylinder is bent 90 degrees just aft of the wrist pin connection and that's
when she stopped turning. Inside the cylinder were two golf ball size
pieces of the piston and the wrist pin which looks good as new. Amazing what
did and did not get chewed up. Now I wish I had an answer to the big
question. What caused the valve to break? May never know, but I'd like to
hear what yall may think might have caused a valve to break.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:46 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Tim,
My 601HDS Ram modified Subaru is still running at Minneapolis MN,
Crystal Airport. I flew it for 200 hours over 7 years and expect it will
for a long time.
Ron has the best fix and solution to valve guides in an EA81. Very
reliable. When the heads get overly warm, the standard valve guides slip
right into the piston and
really can make a mess of things. The EGTs are a best last ditch
solution to monitoring engine health, i.e., mixture.
You should be able to easily tell if the valve guides were out of
position during examination of the heads. They won't go back in place once
they touch pistons.
Would like to know what you find out though.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:04 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Hey Larry,
It was just a stock STRATUS conversion. I knew of a few instances of
valve guide problems, but did not realize that there were so many till mine
failed and I started really looking. I spoke with Ron Carr today and was
very impressed with what he had to say. I am headed to the airport now to
take the head off and have a look inside, but from what I could see with a
scope looking through the spark plug hole, there's not enough of the piston
left tell what happened. Is your RAM modified engine still in use? How
many hours?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:13 AM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Hi Andy,
Sorry to hear of your engine problems, but it would be very useful to
other Subaru users to know if you had the valve guides redone, or were they
dependent upon just circlips to secure the valve guides.
Ron at Ram Performance redid my valve guides and I've not heard of
anyone with his modification having trouble. Lots of failures with just
circlips though. Check your pistons to determine if the tops
were broken or fractured markedly. This is a most likely scenario for
that engine.
If you return to using the Subaru, I'd recommend you get the valve
guide work done, before flying it and add EGTs for each side. It's a good
barometer of your engine performance.
Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus EA81
flying a Piper Cherokee now.
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:23 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
In my haste to hit the send button I failed to tell you guys that the
engine is a STRAUTS EA-81 with 287 hours on it.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:12 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
NOT excited to report a catastrophic engine failure on take off.
This past Saturday I was departing my home field from rwy 36 and at about
450 AGL my engine started to vibrate violently and then the prop came to an
abrupt halt just after I pushed the nose over and pulled the power (MAYBE
two seconds from first indication of a problem till the prop stopped). I
felt that I had enough altitude to execute a 180 (more like a quick
wing-over) and landed safely on 18. Lots of ground up metal in the oil pan
,but no blood or anything in cockpit. My guardian angel was riding with me.
Really got my attention. This was the first flight after a Thursday, 1.3 hr
Xcountry at night. The engine was a Stratus EA-81 and there were no
warning signs that I was aware of. The engine was running fine, with all
temps and oil pressure normal, then it wasn't running at all.
I have removed the engine from the airframe and pulled the oil
pan which is holding a double handful of ground up metal bits and there's a
hole in the top of the case. Also found about a half of a handful of bits
in the muffler. Not sure at this time what caused it to come apart, but
I'll continue to try to find out what happened. May never know for sure as
many pieces as it seems to be in. Yall be careful and know what you and you
bird are capable of.
Andy F.
AVID C/Mark IV Extended Speedwing
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://www.bu
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atronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List">http://
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Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update |
Ron,
Thanks for your input. Your situation sounds very much like mine.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ron hansen
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 11:34 AM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update
I have a Zenair 601HDS with a Stratus EA81 w/ Ram modified valves and
re-jetted carbs. I had water cooling problems from the start. Never
over-temped, but had to pull it back to keep from doing so many times as I
tried different fixes to lower water temp.
At about 50 hours just after landing and exiting the runway, a valve seat
broke on #2 cylinder. It broke the piston badly, but did not scratch the
cylinder somehow and head damage was shallow and fixable. Sort of
embarrassing, but when it happened I thought I just had a fouled plug and
ran it up trying to clear it as I taxied in. I could get 3000 RPM and it
was pretty smooth.
Ron at Ram did the autopsy and rebuild. His best guess was long-term
minor head overtemp. The valve seat had an old crack and a new one that was
the last straw. He said that since my EGT probe on the right side picked up
sort of the average of the two cylinders, I could have one cylinder
overheating and the other not. Same story with water temp since it sort of
averages all 4 cylinders. His best guess was that due to the sharp bend in
the intake right before the cylinders, the Stratus setup was putting more
gas in the front cylinder (the bigger droplets don't make the corner well)
and less in the rear, hence the rear was leaner and hotter, out of limits,
but I didn't know it from my gauges. He had discovered that issue years ago
and made an adapter that evened out the fuel distribution. He now is fuel
injection only, but still had the parts and put the flow equalizers in
during the rebuild.
On the dyno before he returned the engine, it was 103HP with good exhaust
gas chemistry. It has run fine since, though initially still warmer than
Ron thought good for long term. I finally got the water temp to a good
place by fashioning sheet metal to go from the bottom cowl to the top of the
radiator. That keeps most of the hot air going by the muffler from entering
the radiator. Five dzus fasteners hold it on so it's a bit more work to
remove the bottom cowl. I didn't want to go thru the work to move the
radiator back and use a scoop, etc.
Regarding my cooling fix experience on my 601/Stratus:
a.. Data is difficult to interpret because no two flights are alike.
b.. I did extensive testing of my water temp system to make sure it was
accurate.
c.. Larry's louvers helped by several degrees.
d.. Putting small sheet metal "ears" on the sides of the rad inlet to
funnel in more air did nothing to help cooling.
e.. Wrapping the muffler with heat tape helped by several degrees.
f.. Water Wetter I thought helped a tiny amount in temp, but really in
the noise. Hopefully there are greater benefits happening per their claims
that don't show on the gauge.
g.. Changing coolant from 50/50 to 75 water/25 coolant helped a bit.
h.. Turning the heater on helped a bit when needed. (Small heater core
with coolant through it.)
i.. Left and right EGTs helped sort out things such as carb balance and
helped monitor things overall, though don't sweat small differences between
sides.
j.. I tested the Stratus gauge and probe in hot water and oil and they
are not accurate. I never used them in my plane, but got into testing this
as I searched for solutions.
k.. Stratus gauge limit of 230 deg. seems very high to Ron, but it may
be that Stratus was accounting for the crap gauge. Ron said the engine
should run at the thermostat setting of 190 deg. Period. His red-line would
be 220 deg. and would mean something isn't working right.
l.. None of the things above got me to where I was comfortable.
m.. Adding the sheet metal described above finally got me to a
comfortable situation. On most days even on long climbs water temp does not
go above 205 deg. Though when I climbed into a large inversion with 90 deg.
OAT at 3000' it went to 215 and I thought still climbing so I pulled it back
a bit. Still plenty of power to climb. On cooler days, say less than 75
degrees OAT, the water temp never goes past thermostat setting in full power
climb and cycles around 190 deg. by a few degrees as the thermostat cycles.
In cruise, water temp is usually 189 deg.
n.. Ron at Ram is responsive, knows these engines, and does good work.
Stratus is not responsive, doesn't seem to have much interest in these
engines, and I will only go there for parts that are harder to get
elsewhere.
o.. I have about 50 hours since the Ram rebuild and so far so good.
I think I posted most of this in the past in multiple posts, but thought
I'd put it together since there is current interest. If there are other
cooling ideas out there, I am still interested.
Thanks,
Ron Hansen
Los Angeles
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Andy Fultz <andynfultz@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well guys here's what I have found after pulling the head on the
affected side this afternoon. The number 2 cyl exhaust valve stem broke
just below the valve head. There is absolutely no sign of any problem with
the guides. Once that valve was loose in the cylinder much damage followed.
The cylinder wall has an extra hole in it and I suspect that sent metal into
the water pump impellor causing damage there. The connecting rod on the
number 2 cylinder is bent 90 degrees just aft of the wrist pin connection
and that's when she stopped turning. Inside the cylinder were two golf ball
size pieces of the piston and the wrist pin which looks good as new. Amazing
what did and did not get chewed up. Now I wish I had an answer to the big
question. What caused the valve to break? May never know, but I'd like to
hear what yall may think might have caused a valve to break.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:46 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Tim,
My 601HDS Ram modified Subaru is still running at Minneapolis MN,
Crystal Airport. I flew it for 200 hours over 7 years and expect it will
for a long time.
Ron has the best fix and solution to valve guides in an EA81. Very
reliable. When the heads get overly warm, the standard valve guides slip
right into the piston and
really can make a mess of things. The EGTs are a best last ditch
solution to monitoring engine health, i.e., mixture.
You should be able to easily tell if the valve guides were out of
position during examination of the heads. They wont go back in place once
they touch pistons.
Would like to know what you find out though.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:04 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Hey Larry,
It was just a stock STRATUS conversion. I knew of a few instances
of valve guide problems, but did not realize that there were so many till
mine failed and I started really looking. I spoke with Ron Carr today and
was very impressed with what he had to say. I am headed to the airport now
to take the head off and have a look inside, but from what I could see with
a scope looking through the spark plug hole, there's not enough of the
piston left tell what happened. Is your RAM modified engine still in use?
How many hours?
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:13 AM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
Hi Andy,
Sorry to hear of your engine problems, but it would be very useful
to other Subaru users to know if you had the valve guides redone, or were
they dependent upon just circlips to secure the valve guides.
Ron at Ram Performance redid my valve guides and Ive not heard of
anyone with his modification having trouble. Lots of failures with just
circlips though. Check your pistons to determine if the tops
were broken or fractured markedly. This is a most likely scenario
for that engine.
If you return to using the Subaru, Id recommend you get the valve
guide work done, before flying it and add EGTs for each side. Its a good
barometer of your engine performance.
Larry McFarland 601HDS Stratus EA81
flying a Piper Cherokee now.
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:23 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
In my haste to hit the send button I failed to tell you guys that
the engine is a STRAUTS EA-81 with 287 hours on it.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-stratus-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Fultz
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:12 PM
To: stratus-list@matronics.com; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Stratus-List: It Finally Happened to ME!
NOT excited to report a catastrophic engine failure on take off.
This past Saturday I was departing my home field from rwy 36 and at about
450 AGL my engine started to vibrate violently and then the prop came to an
abrupt halt just after I pushed the nose over and pulled the power (MAYBE
two seconds from first indication of a problem till the prop stopped). I
felt that I had enough altitude to execute a 180 (more like a quick
wing-over) and landed safely on 18. Lots of ground up metal in the oil pan
,but no blood or anything in cockpit. My guardian angel was riding with me.
Really got my attention. This was the first flight after a Thursday, 1.3 hr
Xcountry at night. The engine was a Stratus EA-81 and there were no
warning signs that I was aware of. The engine was running fine, with all
temps and oil pressure normal, then it wasn't running at all.
I have removed the engine from the airframe and pulled the oil
pan which is holding a double handful of ground up metal bits and there's a
hole in the top of the case. Also found about a half of a handful of bits
in the muffler. Not sure at this time what caused it to come apart, but
I'll continue to try to find out what happened. May never know for sure as
many pieces as it seems to be in. Yall be careful and know what you and you
bird are capable of.
Andy F.
AVID C/Mark IV Extended Speedwing
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://www.bu
ildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">ww
w.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m
atronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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ronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List
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dersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: It Finally Happened to ME! Update |
Hi all,
I also had engine cooling problem and led to blowing a head gasket a few ye
ars ago.=C2- Anyway, I decided to go with dual motorcycle mufflers port a
nd starboard with nothing impeding airflow to the radiator but the front ge
ar strut.=C2- My temps are much better now and will monitor those closely
in the months to follow.
John K.
Bremerton, WA
Zenith 601HDS=C2-/ Stratus EA-81 with RAM heads
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