---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/01/02: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:48 AM - Re: Panel questions... (Richard Lamb) 2. 05:02 AM - Re: Panel questions... (Jim and Donna Clement) 3. 11:58 AM - Re: Panel questions... (Louis Owen) 4. 02:06 PM - Re: Panel questions... (William Bernard) 5. 02:23 PM - Re: Panel questions... (Christian Bobka) 6. 03:17 PM - Re: Panel questions... (Jim and Donna Clement) 7. 03:29 PM - Re: Panel questions... (Richard Lamb) 8. 11:06 PM - New, NEW List Digest Format... (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:55 AM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. Two problems with that, tho. One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. It takes way too much mental effort to read them, note changes, and to just "scan". Personal preference, of course. The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. Best performance for the frugal buck. I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. Besides the tachometer, what do we need? Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas temp, voltmeter and ammeter. William Bernard wrote: > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole and > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, although > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > important. > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold by > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying the > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and is > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. (This > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and this > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is not > included.) > > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Lamb" > To: "TW List" > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > to bounce off the list. > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > So, any comments? > > > > Richard > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:23 AM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Richard, I've had better luck with the automotive type than the so called aircraft type gauges. The fuel gauge and sender especially. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lamb" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. > Two problems with that, tho. > > One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. > It takes way too much mental effort to read them, > note changes, and to just "scan". > Personal preference, of course. > > The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! > But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. > Best performance for the frugal buck. > > I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive > gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. > > Besides the tachometer, what do we need? > Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas > temp, voltmeter and ammeter. > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole and > > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, although > > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > > important. > > > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold by > > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying the > > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and is > > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. (This > > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and this > > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is not > > included.) > > > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Lamb" > > To: "TW List" > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > > to bounce off the list. > > > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > > > So, any comments? > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:18 AM PST US From: "Louis Owen" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen" I used Stewart Warner Automotive in N6PJ. Amp., Fuel Level, Oil Preesure, Oil Temp. The only thing I didn't like about them was the chrome bezels so I painted them black. Lou PS At the time I think I paid about $50 for the four including the fuel level sender. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> > > Richard, I've had better luck with the automotive type than the so called > aircraft type gauges. The fuel gauge and sender especially. Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Lamb" > To: > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. > > Two problems with that, tho. > > > > One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. > > It takes way too much mental effort to read them, > > note changes, and to just "scan". > > Personal preference, of course. > > > > The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! > > But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. > > Best performance for the frugal buck. > > > > I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive > > gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. > > > > Besides the tachometer, what do we need? > > Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas > > temp, voltmeter and ammeter. > > > > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > > > > > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > > > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole > and > > > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, > although > > > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > > > important. > > > > > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold > by > > > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > > > > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > > > > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > > > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying > the > > > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and > is > > > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. > (This > > > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and > this > > > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is > not > > > included.) > > > > > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Richard Lamb" > > > To: "TW List" > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > > > to bounce off the list. > > > > > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > > > > > So, any comments? > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:02 PM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" Richard, the only gauges required are oip temperature and oil pressure and a tach. Most folks will install an ameter or voltmeter if there is an electrical system, but I don't think that's actually required. Most of the stuff in the panel is from builder 'wants' rather than 'needs'. Automotive gauges work fine, that's what I use in my Mustang II and will also use in the Tailwind. The only problem is that they mount differently that aircraft instruments and this doesn't look right to some folks. You can always leave space in the panel for something to be added in the future. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lamb" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. > Two problems with that, tho. > > One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. > It takes way too much mental effort to read them, > note changes, and to just "scan". > Personal preference, of course. > > The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! > But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. > Best performance for the frugal buck. > > I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive > gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. > > Besides the tachometer, what do we need? > Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas > temp, voltmeter and ammeter. > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole and > > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, although > > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > > important. > > > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold by > > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying the > > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and is > > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. (This > > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and this > > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is not > > included.) > > > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Lamb" > > To: "TW List" > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > > to bounce off the list. > > > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > > > So, any comments? > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:48 PM PST US From: "Christian Bobka" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Christian Bobka" FAR part 91 says to fly VFR we need, at a minimum, the following indicators: Airspeed, Altimeter, compass with correction card, tachometer, oil pressure, and oil temp for an aircooled motor or coolant temp for a water cooled motor. Everything else is up to you. chris bobka -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Bernard Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" Richard, the only gauges required are oip temperature and oil pressure and a tach. Most folks will install an ameter or voltmeter if there is an electrical system, but I don't think that's actually required. Most of the stuff in the panel is from builder 'wants' rather than 'needs'. Automotive gauges work fine, that's what I use in my Mustang II and will also use in the Tailwind. The only problem is that they mount differently that aircraft instruments and this doesn't look right to some folks. You can always leave space in the panel for something to be added in the future. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lamb" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. > Two problems with that, tho. > > One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. > It takes way too much mental effort to read them, > note changes, and to just "scan". > Personal preference, of course. > > The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! > But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. > Best performance for the frugal buck. > > I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive > gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. > > Besides the tachometer, what do we need? > Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas > temp, voltmeter and ammeter. > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole and > > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, although > > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > > important. > > > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold by > > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying the > > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and is > > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. (This > > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and this > > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is not > > included.) > > > > Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Lamb" > > To: "TW List" > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > > to bounce off the list. > > > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > > > So, any comments? > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:01 PM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Autometer is a good auto gauge and they come in several styles,colors, electric and mechanical. They run about 35-40 dollars with the sender. Speedway Motors, Jegs and Summit are a few that sell them. Vans Aircraft also has a line of reasonably priced gauges in his catalog as well a lot of other stuff that will fit a Tailwind. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > Richard, the only gauges required are oip temperature and oil pressure and a > tach. Most folks will install an ameter or voltmeter if there is an > electrical system, but I don't think that's actually required. > > Most of the stuff in the panel is from builder 'wants' rather than 'needs'. > > Automotive gauges work fine, that's what I use in my Mustang II and will > also use in the Tailwind. The only problem is that they mount differently > that aircraft instruments and this doesn't look right to some folks. You can > always leave space in the panel for something to be added in the future. > > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Lamb" > To: > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. > > Two problems with that, tho. > > > > One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. > > It takes way too much mental effort to read them, > > note changes, and to just "scan". > > Personal preference, of course. > > > > The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! > > But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. > > Best performance for the frugal buck. > > > > I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive > > gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. > > > > Besides the tachometer, what do we need? > > Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas > > temp, voltmeter and ammeter. > > > > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > > > > > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > > > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole > and > > > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, > although > > > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > > > important. > > > > > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold > by > > > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > > > > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > > > > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > > > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying > the > > > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and > is > > > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. > (This > > > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and > this > > > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is > not > > > included.) > > > > > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Richard Lamb" > > > To: "TW List" > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > > > to bounce off the list. > > > > > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > > > > > So, any comments? > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:01 PM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb I know about the mounting differences. Take a look at the engine gauges on my parasol panel. The oip press, temp and voltmeter are 1-1/2" diameter and slide in from the front. I didn't like the looks, as well as the problem of removing the panel with a bunch of "tails" permenantly installed. My solution was to mount these three on a small subpanel and mount that from behind. It was, of course, a lot of unnecessary extra work, but it looks perty good. http://www.flash.net/~lamb01 I think it's under news 2 button? William Bernard wrote: > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > Richard, the only gauges required are oip temperature and oil pressure and a > tach. Most folks will install an ameter or voltmeter if there is an > electrical system, but I don't think that's actually required. > > Most of the stuff in the panel is from builder 'wants' rather than 'needs'. > > Automotive gauges work fine, that's what I use in my Mustang II and will > also use in the Tailwind. The only problem is that they mount differently > that aircraft instruments and this doesn't look right to some folks. You can > always leave space in the panel for something to be added in the future. > > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Lamb" > To: > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > Thanks Bill, interesting stuff. > > Two problems with that, tho. > > > > One, I'm not a big proponent of digital gauges. > > It takes way too much mental effort to read them, > > note changes, and to just "scan". > > Personal preference, of course. > > > > The other is that $1400 is most of my annual budget! > > But then, that's why I wanted a Tailwind in the first place. > > Best performance for the frugal buck. > > > > I was thinking along the lines of original equipment automotive > > gauges. Small, light, inexpensive. Automotive sensors same. > > > > Besides the tachometer, what do we need? > > Oil pressure, oil temperature, cylinder head temp, exhaust gas > > temp, voltmeter and ammeter. > > > > > > William Bernard wrote: > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" > > > > > > > Richard, just a couple of comments. The Microair transponder seems to be > > > getting good reviews on the AeroElectric List. It fits in a 2 1/4" hole > and > > > runs about $1400 or so. Several avionics shops seem to stock it, > although > > > there may be shortages at times. It's made in Australia, if that's > > > important. > > > > > > As far as an alternative to the 2 1/4" engine gauges, there is one sold > by > > > Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. > > > > > > www.Hometown.AOL.com/EngInfoSys > > > > > > that is about 3 inches high by about 5 inches wide. The readouts are > > > displayed digitally only, but the cost is essentially the same as buying > the > > > instruments individually. I have a friend who has one in a Glastar and > is > > > reasonably pleased with it. His main problem has been programing it. > (This > > > is apparantly done with menus using two buttons on the front panel and > this > > > was something his 9 year old nephew did for him. BTW, the 9 year old is > not > > > included.) > > > > > > Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Richard Lamb" > > > To: "TW List" > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Panel questions... > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a low res pic of my favorite panel layout. > > > > (about 30 k - just a few seconds to download) > > > > > > > > http://flash.net/~lamb01/p-k6e.jpg > > > > > > > > There are a couple of oddities about it that I'd like > > > > to bounce off the list. > > > > > > > > First, of course, is the throttle placement and type. > > > > I really like Rick's arrangement with levers at both > > > > sides. But there is the question of interferance between > > > > the torque tube and the switches along the bottom of the panel. > > > > > > > > This drawing shows vernier controls on the left side for > > > > throttle and mixture. I've "flown" this for a few hours. > > > > It's very familiar - like flying from the right seat > > > > > > > > The two small red dots are alternate locations for carb heat. > > > > I think I prefer the top one - closer to the throttle. > > > > > > > > The yellow spot is the primer. > > > > > > > > I have Appolo half width Nav and Com and the funny lookin' > > > > Tri Nav display head (lower left big hole). But the little > > > > transponder is out of production and getting scarce... So... > > > > > > > > The "small" 2-1/4" gauges sure take up a lot of panel space. > > > > Fred vetoed the Westach dual gauges. Gave good reasons too. > > > > But they sure take up a lot of space. > > > > > > > > Is there a smaller alternative that is affordable AND readable? > > > > > > > > So, any comments? > > > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:48 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Tailwind-List: New, NEW List Digest Format... --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Okay, so I woke up this morning to an email box full of hate-mail about the new List Digest format. I thought it was cool, but I guess not... Still, it seemed like too much code to just throw out, so I've modified things a little and I'm hoping everyone will be happy with the new, NEW arrangement. Here's how it works now: o The HTML and TXT enclosures aren't sent in the Digest any longer. o URL Links to the HTML and TEXT versions of the day's Digests will be found at the top of the digest email. o The new Digest Index will be found at the top of the digest email following the URL Links. o The full digest text will then be found in the email as before. o All of the previous Digests will now be available on line. The URL for the main digest page is: http://www.matronics.com/digest From here, you can drill into the specific List Digest of interest. o Both the HTML and TXT versions of the Digests can be found here. o The List Message Trailer will contain a Link directly to the given o Right now there's only one Digest shown, but each day there will be another. They will be sorted with the newest at the top. Left-hand column is the HTML version, right-hand column the TXT version. A couple people also complained that some messages in the HTML version were just one long line that went off to the right forever and they hated that. Come to think of it, this is also an issue in the Search Engine, List Browser, and Archive Browser. Some email programs don't included hard Returns at regular intervals and that's what causes this. I wrote a program tonight that will automatically chop these long lines into 78 characters or less and wrap the rest of the line. After tonight's Archive transfer, all of the Searching and Browsing tools shouldn't have the problem any longer either. Woo hoo! So, back to the new Digest format. What people are going to see in the new, NEW Digest is a bit of verbiage at the top of the email describing the URL links to the HTML and TXT on-line versions, followed by the Links, followed by the day's Index, followed by the day's messages just as before. Lines longer than 78 characters will also be automatically wrapped onto the next line. Hopefully this will be a more pleasing arrangement for everyone. Sorry to get everybody so stirred up over the format change! The List of Contributors is coming out tomorrow night... Still time to make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin.