Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:30 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Bill newkirk)
2. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators ()
3. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Richard Lamb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified similar to
W-10 elevators?
Bill Newkirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose clamps
that
> they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
>
> Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
>
> Bill Newkirk
> W - 8 1/2
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> <168x@merr.com>
> >
> > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them for
> about
> > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is the
one
> > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here will
> > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee bolt.
you
> > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either weld
> or
> > rivet to itself.
> > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about 1/2"
> > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the tank
> > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge of
the
> > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup, fuel
runs
> > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from the
> pickup.
> > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons or
so.
> > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
> > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side, they
> seem
> > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off the
> upper
> > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the vent in
> the
> > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
filler
> > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical fuel
> > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the sender
in
> > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have had
> three
> > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned. Stainless
> > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used to
crate
> > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots of it.
> > Jim
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
needed
> to
> > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under "panel
> and
> > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > <168x@merr.com>
> > >
> > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on each
> side,
> > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay with
> the
> > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent oil
> canning
> > > of the top panel.
> > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about .015.
> > Wicks
> > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized can
be
> > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as pretty.
> > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1 1/2" and
> > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between the
> side
> > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
> > instrument
> > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about six
> > inches
> > > wide.
> > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld tabs to
> > screw
> > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from the
> > floor
> > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Richard Lamb"
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > > >
> > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
> > > >
> > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
> > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
> > > >
> > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
> > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
> > > > I'll take that one at face value.
> > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
> > > > and the fuel line.
> > > >
> > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
> > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
> > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
> > > >
> > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
> > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
> > > > Any alternate source for .017??
> > > >
> > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
> > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
> > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
> > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
> > > >
> > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
> > > > Especially the back window.
> > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > > >
> > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging the
> > panel
> > > is
> > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time, that
> you
> > > don't
> > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it together...
It's
> > > not
> > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot, Radios(plural)
> etc
> > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru the
top
> > > cover
> > > > > of the dash.
> > > > >
> > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in the air
> and
> > > you
> > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for maintenance.
> > > > > Honest.....
> > > > > Weav
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Richard Lamb
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Jim.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
> > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
> > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
> > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the cross
> > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
> > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross tube
> > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an instrument
> panel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of the
> panel
> > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the panel
> > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind the
> > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without hitting
> > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the floors
> > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
> > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that thing
> > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make the
> panel
> > > to
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out hitting
> the
> > > fuel
> > > > > > > tank. Jim
> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > >
> > > Richard and Jim:
> > >
> > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
> > construction.
> > > Hope it helps.
> > >
> > > Dallas
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> > > >
> > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to bottom
of
> > fuel tank
> > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel is 8
> 1/8"
> > tall,
> > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
> > > > Rick N393RC
> > > >
> > > > john wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements panel
> at
> > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of panel,
> which
> > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
fellows
> > have
> > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10 1/2"
> above
> > the
> > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s', What
is
> > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
> > Thankyou.
> > > > > JohnD
> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > <168x@merr.com>
> > >
> > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of tank
> > height.
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dallas Benham"
> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > >
> > > From: "Louis Owen"
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
> > >
> > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
> > > Lou Owen
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: <jcsteele@ripnet.com>
NO.. Mine is per plans and works fine Jack Steele C-Fsny
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
<tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
>
>The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
>elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified similar to
>W-10 elevators?
>
>Bill Newkirk
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
>
>
>> The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose clamps
>that
>> they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
>>
>> Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
>>
>> Bill Newkirk
>> W - 8 1/2
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
>> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
>>
>>
>> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
>> <168x@merr.com>
>> >
>> > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them for
>> about
>> > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is the
>one
>> > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here
will
>> > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee bolt.
>you
>> > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either
weld
>> or
>> > rivet to itself.
>> > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about 1/2"
>> > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the tank
>> > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge of
>the
>> > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup, fuel
>runs
>> > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from the
>> pickup.
>> > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons or
>so.
>> > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
>> > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side, they
>> seem
>> > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off the
>> upper
>> > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the vent in
>> the
>> > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
>filler
>> > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical
fuel
>> > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the sender
>in
>> > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have had
>> three
>> > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned.
Stainless
>> > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used to
>crate
>> > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots of
it.
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
>> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
>> <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
>needed
>> to
>> > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
"panel
>> and
>> > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
>> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
>> > >
>> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
>> > <168x@merr.com>
>> > >
>> > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on each
>> side,
>> > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay
with
>> the
>> > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent oil
>> canning
>> > > of the top panel.
>> > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about
.015.
>> > Wicks
>> > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized can
>be
>> > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
pretty.
>> > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1 1/2"
and
>> > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between the
>> side
>> > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
>> > instrument
>> > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about six
>> > inches
>> > > wide.
>> > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld tabs
to
>> > screw
>> > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from the
>> > floor
>> > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Richard Lamb"
>> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
>> > > >
>> > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
>> > > >
>> > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
>> > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
>> > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
>> > > > I'll take that one at face value.
>> > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
>> > > > and the fuel line.
>> > > >
>> > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
>> > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
>> > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
>> > > >
>> > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
>> > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
>> > > > Any alternate source for .017??
>> > > >
>> > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
>> > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
>> > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
>> > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
>> > > >
>> > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
>> > > > Especially the back window.
>> > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging the
>> > panel
>> > > is
>> > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time, that
>> you
>> > > don't
>> > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it together...
>It's
>> > > not
>> > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
Radios(plural)
>> etc
>> > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru the
>top
>> > > cover
>> > > > > of the dash.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in the
air
>> and
>> > > you
>> > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
maintenance.
>> > > > > Honest.....
>> > > > > Weav
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: Richard Lamb
>> > > > > To:
>> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks Jim.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
>> > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
>> > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
>> > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the cross
>> > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
>> > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross tube
>> > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an instrument
>> panel.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of the
>> panel
>> > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the panel
>> > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind the
>> > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without hitting
>> > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the floors
>> > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
>> > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that thing
>> > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
>> > > > > <168x@merr.com>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make the
>> panel
>> > > to
>> > > > > your
>> > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
hitting
>> the
>> > > fuel
>> > > > > > > tank. Jim
>> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>> > >
>> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
>> > >
>> > > Richard and Jim:
>> > >
>> > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
>> > construction.
>> > > Hope it helps.
>> > >
>> > > Dallas
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
>> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
>> > > >
>> > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to bottom
>of
>> > fuel tank
>> > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel is 8
>> 1/8"
>> > tall,
>> > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
>> > > > Rick N393RC
>> > > >
>> > > > john wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements
panel
>> at
>> > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of panel,
>> which
>> > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
>fellows
>> > have
>> > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10 1/2"
>> above
>> > the
>> > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s', What
>is
>> > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
>> > Thankyou.
>> > > > > JohnD
>> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>> > >
>> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
>> > <168x@merr.com>
>> > >
>> > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of tank
>> > height.
>> > > Jim
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Dallas Benham"
>> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
>> > >
>> > > From: "Louis Owen"
>> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
>> > >
>> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
>> > >
>> > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
>> > > Lou Owen
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb <lamb01@flash.net>
Mac Kardy told me he increased the stab tip chord by 1"
on his -8. But elevators were stock.
jcsteele@ripnet.com wrote:
>
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: <jcsteele@ripnet.com>
>
> NO.. Mine is per plans and works fine Jack Steele C-Fsny
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> To: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>; tailwind-list@matronics.com
> <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> >
> >The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
> >elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified similar to
> >W-10 elevators?
> >
> >Bill Newkirk
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >
> >
> >> The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose clamps
> >that
> >> they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
> >>
> >> Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
> >>
> >> Bill Newkirk
> >> W - 8 1/2
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> >> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> <168x@merr.com>
> >> >
> >> > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them for
> >> about
> >> > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is the
> >one
> >> > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here
> will
> >> > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee bolt.
> >you
> >> > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either
> weld
> >> or
> >> > rivet to itself.
> >> > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about 1/2"
> >> > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the tank
> >> > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge of
> >the
> >> > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup, fuel
> >runs
> >> > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from the
> >> pickup.
> >> > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons or
> >so.
> >> > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
> >> > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side, they
> >> seem
> >> > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off the
> >> upper
> >> > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the vent in
> >> the
> >> > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
> >filler
> >> > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical
> fuel
> >> > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the sender
> >in
> >> > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have had
> >> three
> >> > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned.
> Stainless
> >> > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used to
> >crate
> >> > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots of
> it.
> >> > Jim
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> >> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> >> <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
> >needed
> >> to
> >> > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
> "panel
> >> and
> >> > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> >> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> > <168x@merr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on each
> >> side,
> >> > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay
> with
> >> the
> >> > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent oil
> >> canning
> >> > > of the top panel.
> >> > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about
> .015.
> >> > Wicks
> >> > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized can
> >be
> >> > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
> pretty.
> >> > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1 1/2"
> and
> >> > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between the
> >> side
> >> > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
> >> > instrument
> >> > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about six
> >> > inches
> >> > > wide.
> >> > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld tabs
> to
> >> > screw
> >> > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from the
> >> > floor
> >> > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Richard Lamb"
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> >> > > >
> >> > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
> >> > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
> >> > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
> >> > > > I'll take that one at face value.
> >> > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
> >> > > > and the fuel line.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
> >> > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
> >> > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
> >> > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
> >> > > > Any alternate source for .017??
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
> >> > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
> >> > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
> >> > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
> >> > > > Especially the back window.
> >> > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging the
> >> > panel
> >> > > is
> >> > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time, that
> >> you
> >> > > don't
> >> > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it together...
> >It's
> >> > > not
> >> > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
> Radios(plural)
> >> etc
> >> > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru the
> >top
> >> > > cover
> >> > > > > of the dash.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in the
> air
> >> and
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
> maintenance.
> >> > > > > Honest.....
> >> > > > > Weav
> >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: Richard Lamb
> >> > > > > To:
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Thanks Jim.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
> >> > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
> >> > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
> >> > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the cross
> >> > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
> >> > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross tube
> >> > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an instrument
> >> panel.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of the
> >> panel
> >> > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the panel
> >> > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind the
> >> > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without hitting
> >> > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the floors
> >> > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
> >> > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that thing
> >> > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> > > > > <168x@merr.com>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make the
> >> panel
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > your
> >> > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
> hitting
> >> the
> >> > > fuel
> >> > > > > > > tank. Jim
> >> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> >> > >
> >> > > Richard and Jim:
> >> > >
> >> > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
> >> > construction.
> >> > > Hope it helps.
> >> > >
> >> > > Dallas
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> >> > > >
> >> > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to bottom
> >of
> >> > fuel tank
> >> > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel is 8
> >> 1/8"
> >> > tall,
> >> > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
> >> > > > Rick N393RC
> >> > > >
> >> > > > john wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements
> panel
> >> at
> >> > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of panel,
> >> which
> >> > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
> >fellows
> >> > have
> >> > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10 1/2"
> >> above
> >> > the
> >> > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s', What
> >is
> >> > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
> >> > Thankyou.
> >> > > > > JohnD
> >> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> > <168x@merr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of tank
> >> > height.
> >> > > Jim
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Dallas Benham"
> >> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> >> > >
> >> > > From: "Louis Owen"
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
> >> > >
> >> > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
> >> > > Lou Owen
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
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