Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:52 AM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Jim and Donna Clement)
2. 10:23 AM - W-8 tail (Earl Luce)
3. 10:27 AM - Interesting item on eBay web site item#1874964126: cougar 1 kit (bobka@charter.net)
4. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Bill newkirk)
5. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: W-8 Elevators (Bill newkirk)
6. 10:23 PM - Re: W-8 Elevators (Fred Weaver)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
Bill, It is not important but the W10 type lighten the feel, especially
while in the pattern and while landing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
>
> The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
> elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified similar
to
> W-10 elevators?
>
> Bill Newkirk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
>
>
> > The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose clamps
> that
> > they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
> >
> > Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> > W - 8 1/2
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > <168x@merr.com>
> > >
> > > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them for
> > about
> > > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is the
> one
> > > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here
will
> > > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee bolt.
> you
> > > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either
weld
> > or
> > > rivet to itself.
> > > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about
1/2"
> > > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the tank
> > > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge of
> the
> > > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup, fuel
> runs
> > > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from the
> > pickup.
> > > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons or
> so.
> > > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
> > > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side,
they
> > seem
> > > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off the
> > upper
> > > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the vent
in
> > the
> > > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
> filler
> > > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical
fuel
> > > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the
sender
> in
> > > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have had
> > three
> > > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned.
Stainless
> > > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used to
> crate
> > > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots of
it.
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> > <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
> needed
> > to
> > > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
"panel
> > and
> > > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> > > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > >
> > > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on each
> > side,
> > > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay
with
> > the
> > > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent oil
> > canning
> > > > of the top panel.
> > > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about
.015.
> > > Wicks
> > > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized
can
> be
> > > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
pretty.
> > > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1 1/2"
and
> > > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between the
> > side
> > > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
> > > instrument
> > > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about six
> > > inches
> > > > wide.
> > > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld tabs
to
> > > screw
> > > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from
the
> > > floor
> > > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Richard Lamb"
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > > > >
> > > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
> > > > >
> > > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
> > > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
> > > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
> > > > > I'll take that one at face value.
> > > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
> > > > > and the fuel line.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
> > > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
> > > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
> > > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
> > > > > Any alternate source for .017??
> > > > >
> > > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
> > > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
> > > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
> > > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
> > > > > Especially the back window.
> > > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging
the
> > > panel
> > > > is
> > > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time,
that
> > you
> > > > don't
> > > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it together...
> It's
> > > > not
> > > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
Radios(plural)
> > etc
> > > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru the
> top
> > > > cover
> > > > > > of the dash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in the
air
> > and
> > > > you
> > > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
maintenance.
> > > > > > Honest.....
> > > > > > Weav
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Richard Lamb
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Jim.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
> > > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
> > > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
> > > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the cross
> > > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
> > > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross tube
> > > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an instrument
> > panel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of the
> > panel
> > > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the
panel
> > > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind
the
> > > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without hitting
> > > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the floors
> > > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
> > > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that
thing
> > > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > > > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make the
> > panel
> > > > to
> > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
hitting
> > the
> > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > tank. Jim
> > > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > > >
> > > > Richard and Jim:
> > > >
> > > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
> > > construction.
> > > > Hope it helps.
> > > >
> > > > Dallas
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> > > > >
> > > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to
bottom
> of
> > > fuel tank
> > > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel is 8
> > 1/8"
> > > tall,
> > > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
> > > > > Rick N393RC
> > > > >
> > > > > john wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements
panel
> > at
> > > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of panel,
> > which
> > > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
> fellows
> > > have
> > > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10 1/2"
> > above
> > > the
> > > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s', What
> is
> > > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
> > > Thankyou.
> > > > > > JohnD
> > > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > >
> > > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of tank
> > > height.
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dallas Benham"
> > > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > > >
> > > > From: "Louis Owen"
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
> > > >
> > > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
> > > > Lou Owen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@att.net>
Bill N
I have converted a W-8 to a balanced elevator , it was a simple task by extending
the leading edge 3/4 " tube 3 " and adding a forward portion rectangle approx.
3" x 10". Then add a curve tube to the leading edge of the stab to match.
It kind of looks like a Cub tail when finished. I don't believed it is necessary
if VNE is below 155.
Earl Luce
NX 264WM-TW
N18263-Buttercup
585-637-5768
Message 3
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| Subject: | Interesting item on eBay web site item#1874964126: cougar |
1 kit
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: bobka@charter.net
Look guys, this even has a complete C-85 with it and it going pretty cheap right
now.
chris bobka
Title of item: cougar 1 kit
Seller: unlimitedcache
Starts: Dec-15-02 10:34:09 PST
Ends: Dec-25-02 10:34:09 PST
Price: Currently $805.01
To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1874964126
Item Description:
cougar 1 kit
Vehicle Description
HOMEBUILT COPY!!
Cougar 1 copy of a wittman tailwind approximately 25 years old. Ran well when disassembled
approximately 10 years ago. It has a continental C 85-12 engine. Needs
some welding on frame. May need some parts. sold AS IS.
Buyer pays for shipping ( Ashland, Oregon 97520)
Call John (541) 915-1616
to get an idea of what you are buying go to
http://www.homebuilt.org/
On Dec-16-02 at 00:06:49 PST, seller added the following information:
After purchasing, pay instantly with your credit card through PayPal!
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On Dec-17-02 at 19:12:49 PST, seller added the following information:
airplane cowel is fiberglass, doors are aluminum, wings are plywood and fabric,
body skin is fabric, frame 4130 steel tubing, engine has 470 hours. Log book
and plans available.
i will have a picture in a few. please email me for it.
Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Thanks for the replies. Leaving them stock would certainly be easier,
because they are completed.
Bill Newkirk
----- Original Message -----
From: <jcsteele@ripnet.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: <jcsteele@ripnet.com>
>
> NO.. Mine is per plans and works fine Jack Steele C-Fsny
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> To: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>; tailwind-list@matronics.com
> <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>
>
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> >
> >The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
> >elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified similar
to
> >W-10 elevators?
> >
> >Bill Newkirk
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >
> >
> >> The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose clamps
> >that
> >> they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
> >>
> >> Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
> >>
> >> Bill Newkirk
> >> W - 8 1/2
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> >> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> <168x@merr.com>
> >> >
> >> > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them
for
> >> about
> >> > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is the
> >one
> >> > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here
> will
> >> > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee
bolt.
> >you
> >> > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either
> weld
> >> or
> >> > rivet to itself.
> >> > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about
1/2"
> >> > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the tank
> >> > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge
of
> >the
> >> > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup, fuel
> >runs
> >> > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from the
> >> pickup.
> >> > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons or
> >so.
> >> > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
> >> > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side,
they
> >> seem
> >> > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off
the
> >> upper
> >> > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the vent
in
> >> the
> >> > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
> >filler
> >> > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical
> fuel
> >> > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the
sender
> >in
> >> > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have
had
> >> three
> >> > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned.
> Stainless
> >> > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used to
> >crate
> >> > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots of
> it.
> >> > Jim
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> >> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> >> <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
> >needed
> >> to
> >> > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
> "panel
> >> and
> >> > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> >> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> > <168x@merr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on
each
> >> side,
> >> > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay
> with
> >> the
> >> > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent oil
> >> canning
> >> > > of the top panel.
> >> > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about
> .015.
> >> > Wicks
> >> > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized
can
> >be
> >> > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
> pretty.
> >> > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1 1/2"
> and
> >> > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between
the
> >> side
> >> > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
> >> > instrument
> >> > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about
six
> >> > inches
> >> > > wide.
> >> > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld tabs
> to
> >> > screw
> >> > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from
the
> >> > floor
> >> > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Richard Lamb"
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> >> > > >
> >> > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
> >> > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
> >> > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
> >> > > > I'll take that one at face value.
> >> > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
> >> > > > and the fuel line.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
> >> > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
> >> > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
> >> > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
> >> > > > Any alternate source for .017??
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
> >> > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
> >> > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
> >> > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
> >> > > > Especially the back window.
> >> > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging
the
> >> > panel
> >> > > is
> >> > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time,
that
> >> you
> >> > > don't
> >> > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it together...
> >It's
> >> > > not
> >> > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
> Radios(plural)
> >> etc
> >> > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru the
> >top
> >> > > cover
> >> > > > > of the dash.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in the
> air
> >> and
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
> maintenance.
> >> > > > > Honest.....
> >> > > > > Weav
> >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: Richard Lamb
> >> > > > > To:
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Thanks Jim.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
> >> > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
> >> > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
> >> > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the cross
> >> > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
> >> > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross tube
> >> > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an instrument
> >> panel.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of the
> >> panel
> >> > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the
panel
> >> > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind
the
> >> > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without
hitting
> >> > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the floors
> >> > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
> >> > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that
thing
> >> > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna
Clement"
> >> > > > > <168x@merr.com>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make
the
> >> panel
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > your
> >> > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
> hitting
> >> the
> >> > > fuel
> >> > > > > > > tank. Jim
> >> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> >> > >
> >> > > Richard and Jim:
> >> > >
> >> > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
> >> > construction.
> >> > > Hope it helps.
> >> > >
> >> > > Dallas
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> >> > > >
> >> > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to
bottom
> >of
> >> > fuel tank
> >> > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel is
8
> >> 1/8"
> >> > tall,
> >> > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
> >> > > > Rick N393RC
> >> > > >
> >> > > > john wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements
> panel
> >> at
> >> > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of
panel,
> >> which
> >> > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
> >fellows
> >> > have
> >> > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10
1/2"
> >> above
> >> > the
> >> > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s',
What
> >is
> >> > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
> >> > Thankyou.
> >> > > > > JohnD
> >> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> >> > <168x@merr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of tank
> >> > height.
> >> > > Jim
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Dallas Benham"
> >> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> >> > >
> >> > > From: "Louis Owen"
> >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
> >> > >
> >> > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
> >> > > Lou Owen
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ---------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Thanks Jim and Earl for your replies. When you bend chromoly tubing, do you
do it with heat or do it cold?
Bill Newkirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
<168x@merr.com>
>
> Bill, It is not important but the W10 type lighten the feel, especially
> while in the pattern and while landing.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> To: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>; <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> >
> > The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
> > elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified similar
> to
> > W-10 elevators?
> >
> > Bill Newkirk
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> >
> >
> > > The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose clamps
> > that
> > > they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
> > >
> > > Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
> > >
> > > Bill Newkirk
> > > W - 8 1/2
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > >
> > > > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them
for
> > > about
> > > > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is
the
> > one
> > > > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here
> will
> > > > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee
bolt.
> > you
> > > > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either
> weld
> > > or
> > > > rivet to itself.
> > > > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about
> 1/2"
> > > > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the tank
> > > > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge
of
> > the
> > > > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup,
fuel
> > runs
> > > > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from the
> > > pickup.
> > > > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons
or
> > so.
> > > > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
> > > > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side,
> they
> > > seem
> > > > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off
the
> > > upper
> > > > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the vent
> in
> > > the
> > > > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
> > filler
> > > > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical
> fuel
> > > > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the
> sender
> > in
> > > > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have
had
> > > three
> > > > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned.
> Stainless
> > > > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used to
> > crate
> > > > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots of
> it.
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> > > <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
> > needed
> > > to
> > > > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
> "panel
> > > and
> > > > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> > > > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on
each
> > > side,
> > > > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay
> with
> > > the
> > > > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent oil
> > > canning
> > > > > of the top panel.
> > > > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about
> .015.
> > > > Wicks
> > > > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized
> can
> > be
> > > > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
> pretty.
> > > > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1 1/2"
> and
> > > > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between
the
> > > side
> > > > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
> > > > instrument
> > > > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about
six
> > > > inches
> > > > > wide.
> > > > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld
tabs
> to
> > > > screw
> > > > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from
> the
> > > > floor
> > > > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Richard Lamb"
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
> > > > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
> > > > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
> > > > > > I'll take that one at face value.
> > > > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
> > > > > > and the fuel line.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
> > > > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
> > > > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
> > > > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
> > > > > > Any alternate source for .017??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
> > > > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
> > > > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
> > > > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
> > > > > > Especially the back window.
> > > > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging
> the
> > > > panel
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time,
> that
> > > you
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it
together...
> > It's
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
> Radios(plural)
> > > etc
> > > > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru
the
> > top
> > > > > cover
> > > > > > > of the dash.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in the
> air
> > > and
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
> maintenance.
> > > > > > > Honest.....
> > > > > > > Weav
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Richard Lamb
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Jim.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
> > > > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
> > > > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
> > > > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the
cross
> > > > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
> > > > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross
tube
> > > > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an instrument
> > > panel.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of
the
> > > panel
> > > > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the
> panel
> > > > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind
> the
> > > > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without
hitting
> > > > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the floors
> > > > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
> > > > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that
> thing
> > > > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna
Clement"
> > > > > > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make
the
> > > panel
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
> hitting
> > > the
> > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > > tank. Jim
> > > > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard and Jim:
> > > > >
> > > > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
> > > > construction.
> > > > > Hope it helps.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dallas
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to
> bottom
> > of
> > > > fuel tank
> > > > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel is
8
> > > 1/8"
> > > > tall,
> > > > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
> > > > > > Rick N393RC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > john wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements
> panel
> > > at
> > > > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of
panel,
> > > which
> > > > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
> > fellows
> > > > have
> > > > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10
1/2"
> > > above
> > > > the
> > > > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s',
What
> > is
> > > > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
> > > > Thankyou.
> > > > > > > JohnD
> > > > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > > > <168x@merr.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of
tank
> > > > height.
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Dallas Benham"
> > > > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Louis Owen"
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
> > > > >
> > > > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
> > > > > Lou Owen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 Elevators |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@flash.net>
Bill.... I guess I have to put my 2 cents worth into this.... The size of
the stab/elevator combination should be increased IF you are planning on
using a Lycoming engine for power. If you are using an 0-200 or C-85, you
can throw my comments in the trash bin. However, if you are going to go with
a 135 to 160 hp lycoming, you would be well advised to build the stab bigger
and balance the elevators just like a W10. The thing is.....with the heavier
engine comes a requirement for more decalage or stab angle to harmonize the
trim. This is because the dry CG is so much farther forward. A stock W8 with
the heavier engine develops very high stick loads when slowing down in the
pattern for landing. AND Landing too... Also, without the added area, the
stab develops a higher level of drag in the cruise configuration. With more
area, you don't have to have all the angle required for straight and level
trim..
I flew one stock for over 10 years without the added area.. It worked but I
always wanted to change the way it felt........ If I had to do over, I
would definitely add stab area along with W10 elevators. I think this would
help the W8 go faster and come so much closer to the nice feel of the W10.
On long trips, I would reduce the stab angle to increase my cruise speed by
7 mph. This only created higher stick forces when landing and taking off but
I really liked the extra speed.
Which engine are you going to install?
Fred Weaver
Sutter Creek, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
>
> Thanks for the replies. Leaving them stock would certainly be easier,
> because they are completed.
>
> Bill Newkirk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jcsteele@ripnet.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: <jcsteele@ripnet.com>
> >
> > NO.. Mine is per plans and works fine Jack Steele C-Fsny
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > To: Bill newkirk <bilnewkirk@msn.com>; tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: W-8 Elevators
> >
> >
> > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk"
<bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > >
> > >The W-8 project I have inherited has no provision for balancing the
> > >elevators. Is this important? Should the elevators be modified
similar
> to
> > >W-10 elevators?
> > >
> > >Bill Newkirk
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> > >
> > >
> > >> The strap 'T" bolts can also be taken from those expensive hose
clamps
> > >that
> > >> they sell at hydraulic shops. They are also stainless.
> > >>
> > >> Also, Jim C, what is a 'boot cowl'?
> > >>
> > >> Bill Newkirk
> > >> W - 8 1/2
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > >> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:57 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > >> <168x@merr.com>
> > >> >
> > >> > Bill, They make a strap bolt just for fuel tank straps. I buy them
> for
> > >> about
> > >> > $2-3 each from the hardware vender at OSH. Forget the name, he is
the
> > >one
> > >> > with lots of stuff in a big tent. Also sells cowhides. Someone here
> > will
> > >> > come up with his name, from Wichita area. It is a three inch tee
> bolt.
> > >you
> > >> > put a hole in your strap, then bend the short end around and either
> > weld
> > >> or
> > >> > rivet to itself.
> > >> > Make your tank 12" from the floor and pound a sump [big dent about
> 1/2"
> > >> > deep, 6-7" diameter] with a outlet welded in. start bending the
tank
> > >> > gradually up towards the inst. panel within 2-3" from the rear edge
> of
> > >the
> > >> > sump. Reason being, if the tank is flat beyond the fuel pickup,
fuel
> > >runs
> > >> > towards the rear of the tank and pulls fuel out of and away from
the
> > >> pickup.
> > >> > This happens when take off is attempted with low fuel, 6-7 gallons
or
> > >so.
> > >> > Make the tank same width, don't try to taper to match the fuselage
> > >> > dimension. Give yourself no less than 1/2" clearance on each side,
> they
> > >> seem
> > >> > to grow during construction and welding. You might have to cut off
> the
> > >> upper
> > >> > corners in the front as the engine mount bolts may hit. Put the
vent
> in
> > >> the
> > >> > filler neck. Use a short rubber hose to connect filler cap assy. to
> > >filler
> > >> > neck. Fuel proof hose can be bought at NAPA store. Use a mechanical
> > fuel
> > >> > gauge sender that measures ohms to the electric guage. Mount the
> sender
> > >in
> > >> > the top of the tank, make sure it clears the center baffle. I have
> had
> > >> three
> > >> > probe type senders and they are junk as far as I am concerned.
> > Stainless
> > >> > makes a nice fuel tank strap but another is steel strapping used
to
> > >crate
> > >> > things. Just about any dumpster at a manufacturing plant has lots
of
> > it.
> > >> > Jim
> > >> >
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > >> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: panel and fuel tank was re: hot steel
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser
> > >> <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Group, This thread is too good to file under "hot steel". I just
> > >needed
> > >> to
> > >> > re-enter it so it can be located later in an archive search under
> > "panel
> > >> and
> > >> > fuel tank". Thanks. Eric
> > >> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > >> > <168x@merr.com>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Richard, Fred is right on hinging, forget it. Put two screws on
> each
> > >> side,
> > >> > > remove and the panel is loose. Mount the radio trays so they stay
> > with
> > >> the
> > >> > > panel. Curve the top of the panel at least one inch to prevent
oil
> > >> canning
> > >> > > of the top panel.
> > >> > > .025 is to heavy for the firewall. I like to use 28 gauge, about
> > .015.
> > >> > Wicks
> > >> > > or Spruce have SS in about .017. If you want, 28 gauge galvanized
> can
> > >be
> > >> > > bought locally at a sheet metal shop, it works fine but not as
> > pretty.
> > >> > > The alum side panels, roll the bottoms around the longerons 1
1/2"
> > and
> > >> > > fasten to the lower boot cowl. Sandwich the side windows between
> the
> > >> side
> > >> > > boot cowl and the top instrument panel with screws going into the
> > >> > instrument
> > >> > > top panel. I make the top panel in three pieces, the sides about
> six
> > >> > inches
> > >> > > wide.
> > >> > > 1/2" tube is fine for the W/S frame but use .028 or .035. Weld
tabs
> > to
> > >> > screw
> > >> > > the W/S to. I will measure how high my panel is and distance from
> the
> > >> > floor
> > >> > > when I go to the airport today. Jim
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Richard Lamb"
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > He never lets me have any fun :(
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I still like that cross tube tho.
> > >> > > > It's even a handy spot to secure a (hurrump) non-folding panel.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I'll tell ya what, tho.
> > >> > > > Jim commented about making the tank easily removable.
> > >> > > > I'll take that one at face value.
> > >> > > > The only thing under the tank are the mount straps
> > >> > > > and the fuel line.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I've had the front cabin side panels clecoed on.
> > >> > > > Trying to get a feel for how to get everything flush and
> > >> > > > rolled around to the bottom. That's interesting.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I need a firewall material, and, of course, want stainless.
> > >> > > > The .025 stuff I've seem locally is twice too heavy.
> > >> > > > Any alternate source for .017??
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > This weekend, I bent the windshield frame for the parasol.
> > >> > > > 1/2" .040 4130 tube. Came out pretty nice. I think I
> > >> > > > see how to form the winshield frame for the TW now.
> > >> > > > By comparison, that will be easy.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Door skins and windows and frames, oh my!
> > >> > > > Especially the back window.
> > >> > > > I think I see now why the long pointy one is so popular!
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Fred Weaver wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Yo Richard... You really don't need the hinged panel. Hinging
> the
> > >> > panel
> > >> > > is
> > >> > > > > just a lot more engineering and you will find out with time,
> that
> > >> you
> > >> > > don't
> > >> > > > > need it at all. Simplify your design by screwing it
together...
> > >It's
> > >> > > not
> > >> > > > > like you are loading the thing with GPS, Autopilot,
> > Radios(plural)
> > >> etc
> > >> > > > > etc... The stuff you install will be fairly accessible thru
the
> > >top
> > >> > > cover
> > >> > > > > of the dash.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Once the plane flies, you will be spending lots of time in
the
> > air
> > >> and
> > >> > > you
> > >> > > > > won't be doinking around pivoting your panel down for
> > maintenance.
> > >> > > > > Honest.....
> > >> > > > > Weav
> > >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > > From: Richard Lamb
> > >> > > > > To:
> > >> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: hot steel
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Thanks Jim.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Actually, that bottom tube looks pretty handy.
> > >> > > > > > It's located back three inches from the door frame tube.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > I have moved the panel aft.
> > >> > > > > > The panel itself is back 5 or 6 inches from the door frame.
> > >> > > > > > There's no obstructions at all for the top row, and the
cross
> > >> > > > > > tube is 8 or 9 inches (?) in front of the panel.
> > >> > > > > > Think that will be enough room?
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Some of those panel drawing I did think that lower cross
tube
> > >> > > > > > would be exactly the right spot to hinge mount an
instrument
> > >> panel.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > The throttle at high center, and the radios in the top of
the
> > >> panel
> > >> > > > > > would have to be mounted permenately. But the rest of the
> panel
> > >> > > > > > could easily swing down. Having the pivot point back behind
> the
> > >> > > > > > panel that far lets all the gauges swing clear without
> hitting
> > >> > > > > > anything. The Tailwind panel is fairly small, and the
floors
> > >> > > > > > fairly comfortable without a stick sticking in my back.
> > >> > > > > > Still, it's an intriguing idea.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > You know better than most people how far back behind that
> thing
> > >> > > > > > you have to go sometimes...
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Jim and Donna Clement wrote:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna
> Clement"
> > >> > > > > <168x@merr.com>
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Richard, Cut the bottom tube out also, then you can make
> the
> > >> panel
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > > > your
> > >> > > > > > > liking. Bring it back enough to get things in with out
> > hitting
> > >> the
> > >> > > fuel
> > >> > > > > > > tank. Jim
> > >> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Richard and Jim:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Below is from my files on previous conversations about Tailwind
> > >> > construction.
> > >> > > Hope it helps.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Dallas
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Rick and Cindy"
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > JohnD: Made some measurements of N393RC, floor (1/4" ply) to
> bottom
> > >of
> > >> > fuel tank
> > >> > > > (29.8 gal) is 12", floor to bottom of panel is 20 3/4", panel
is
> 8
> > >> 1/8"
> > >> > tall,
> > >> > > > top of panel to bottom of front spar carry through is 8 3/8".
> > >> > > > Rick N393RC
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > john wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I'm looking for some input on the panel. I measured Clements
> > panel
> > >> at
> > >> > > > > Oshkosh and it measured 19 1/2" to the bottom, 10 1/2" of
> panel,
> > >> which
> > >> > > > > leaves 7" from the top of the panel, is this about what you
> > >fellows
> > >> > have
> > >> > > > > come up with in your W-10s'? Clements fuel tank measured 10
> 1/2"
> > >> above
> > >> > the
> > >> > > > > floor. I must have big feet because my shoes measure 12"s',
> What
> > >is
> > >> > > > > everyone doing about the distance from the floor to the tank?
> > >> > Thankyou.
> > >> > > > > JohnD
> > >> > > From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement"
> > >> > <168x@merr.com>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Looks about right, for sure go with the 12" floor to bottom of
tank
> > >> > height.
> > >> > > Jim
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Dallas Benham"
> > >> > > Subject: Fw: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dallas Benham"
> > >> > >
> > >> > > From: "Louis Owen"
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: panel and fuel tank
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen"
> > >> > >
> > >> > > My floor to tank bottom was 13". I have rather big feet.
> > >> > > Lou Owen
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ---------------------------------
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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