Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:01 PM - Re: Building of metal wings (Ross & Shirley Leach)
2. 01:01 PM - Re: Building of metal wings (Ross & Shirley Leach)
3. 01:01 PM - Re: Building of metal wings (Ross & Shirley Leach)
4. 01:54 PM - Re: Building of metal wings (NorthernTailwind@aol.com)
5. 05:29 PM - Re: Building of metal wings (Earl Luce)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
Thanks Boud.
I certainly do not disagree with what you say. This what I want a bit of
info to make the right discission. Point taken "Keep it simple" my
favourite motto also.
Regards Ross Leach.. Caboolture Qld Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
Ross,
There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW said
of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
water the horse by then anyway.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach"
<bacs@powerup.com.au>
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
Thanks Tom for taking the time to punch the keys. If you are like me (one
finger) I can appreciate the effort.
I live in a very humid climate and when building my Shadow wing the
pre-made leading edge D section buckled like mad. I tried to fill all the
hollows with Q-cells but gave up after three days. Covered it with fabric
and stood back 10 feet further and said "that will have to do". Maybe
fibreglass could be the answer. I have seen how the new Jabiru wing was
made (for the US market) on their new J200.
Regards Ross Leach Caboolture Qld. Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas P. Wilson" <twilson@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Thomas P. Wilson" <twilson@clinic.net>
Hi Ross (and Shirley too),
I am a guy who has actually undertaken construction of a pair of metal
tailwind wings. I have assembled materials, and made some parts, but I have
put the project up for sale (long story - I have another project which I
believed I had sold and the tailwind fuselage came up for sale and the
workmanship was simply too good to pass on). I now have two project with
room for about one-half a single project. That said, I can observe that I
don't think construction of the wings would be a terribly complex project. I
do believe that the metal wings will be heavier and likely measurably slower
as compared with an identical aircraft with wooden wings. Also, I have built
ribs for one wing panel and found it extremely difficult to acceptably
"joggle" the main ribs where they join the main spar. The joggling is
necessary for a wet wing. I determined that I would build my wings dry and
this is a principal reason. The cost of 2024 T-3 extrusion will shock you,
and it is becoming far less than readily available. For cost reasons, I
found it necessary to purchase 4 12' lengths to get the 4 9.5 footers
needed. My supplier, one of the largest aircraft specialty materials
providers in the States indicated that he had trouble even ordering the
stuff. I spoke with the designer, Callby Wood, and he was quite insistent
that I use the 2024 extrusion on the main spar and spar web. There is a
quite significant strength disadvantage to using 6061 T-6, which is far more
readily available. I was very fortunate to have access to the thick (can't
remember now but believe it is 3/16" thick 2024 doublers at the root end of
the main spar. Good luck finding those pieces at less than a lot! The hinges
look like they will be a challenge to build and align so that the flaps and
ailerons work freely. I find no fault with the design and my technique may
be lacking on the joggling problem, but I have built all the ribs for my
Zodiac project from scratch with no difficulties encountered, and I didn't
give up on joggling until after I had exhausted my resources and skill.
I have long been fascinated by these metal wings and have recently
spoken with another man (Bill See in Centersburg, Ohio) who actually built
and flew a pair of the metal wings. he reported no difficulty, so you may
wnat to track him down. People search on Yahoo.com will turn him up. Anyway,
best of luck on the endeavor. It may alienate a lot of Tailwind people, but
I hate wooden wings, so I naturally looked at this option. Tom Wilson
Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach"
<bacs@powerup.com.au>
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
Thanks John for your comments. To all others keep them coming. I'm to old
for anyone to hurt my feelings with there ideas or comments.
Regards Ross Leach.. Caboolture Qld Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston@wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD
<John.Livingston@wpafb.af.mil>
I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood has
plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if metal is
your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety purposes and
to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel system simple
I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If you are going
to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than the W10 has.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen@horizonaero.com]
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
Ross,
There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with wing
tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW said
of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
water the horse by then anyway.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach"
<bacs@powerup.com.au>
>
> G'day All
>
> I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working with
alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
(remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of our
waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel supply.
Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1 foot
more of wing per side.
>
> I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I can
keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated expense.
>
> I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side of
Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from my
home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like the
answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of them
are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the state
below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have flown
three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
(100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
replies.
>
> Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: NorthernTailwind@aol.com
Ross -
If you would like to read my yarn about the building of my metal wing
Tailwind you can find it on my club web site. Go to... www.raa-tr.ca
Any questions, drop me a line.
Earl Trimble
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Building of metal wings |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@att.net>
John
As far as safety , the fuel tank where it is as per plans is by far the
safest place it could be. It is well protected . If you hit hard enough to
rupture the tank you are already in deep #$%
. Remember the tailwind is a
great flying machine , don't screw around with a proven design. If you feel
the need to get different do it with the paint job .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD" <John.Livingston@wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Livingston John W Civ ASC/ENFD
<John.Livingston@wpafb.af.mil>
>
> I agree with most of Boud's comments, but on the flip side, Calbie Wood
has plans for a metal wing with wing tanks. Pretty straight forward, if
metal is your media. I am putting all of my fuel in the wing for safety
purposes and to free up space behind the dash. In order to keep the fuel
system simple I'd either put it all in the wings or all behind the dash. If
you are going to use a small engine there is no need for anymore span than
the W10 has.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boud Kuenen [mailto:bkuenen@horizonaero.com]
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
>
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen"
<bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
>
> Ross,
>
> There are people who have built metal wings and even tapered wings for
> Tailwinds, but I have never heard any claims that they provided any
> advantage over the wooden ones; and complicating the whole project with
wing
> tanks/plumbing is a double edged sword, to say the least. Years ago SW
said
> of the Tailwind; "performed a little better than expected". This is
> primarily due to the fact that the wing (not laminar flow) is very smooth.
> I think smooth wings are easier to obtain with wood than sheet metal,
> especially if the sheet metal is thin. Many W-10's have 30+ gallon tanks.
> This coupled with the J-3300 should give you 5 hour range at 150-155 knots
> for a range of almost 900 statute miles. Time to check the weather and
> water the horse by then anyway.
>
> Regards,
> Boud Kuenen NX888WT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross & Shirley Leach" <bacs@powerup.com.au>
> To: "Tailwind-List" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Building of metal wings
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ross & Shirley Leach"
> <bacs@powerup.com.au>
> >
> > G'day All
> >
> > I am now putting together all my info I have collected on building a W10
> TW and would like any of your thoughts on building metal wings (and any
> thing else you may think I should consider). I am comfortable working
with
> alloy and would like to carry more fuel than the under-dash tank will hold
> (remember it is a large country with a lot of nothing in-between some of
our
> waypoints and you have to carry enough fuel to get home or to a fuel
supply.
> Avgas is had to get out in the bush here). Could anybody advise me on the
> pros and cons of the two wing choices. I am also considering adding 1
foot
> more of wing per side.
> >
> > I intend using a Rotax 914 (115hp)or a 3300 (120hp) Jabiru 6 cyl so I
can
> keep the weight down so as it can be registered with the AUF (Australian
> Ultralight Federation). I will be quite happy with 120 knot + cruise. I
> have flown ultralights for 15 years and do not want to get involved with
> GA's and our Governments CASA with 100 hourly's and the associated
expense.
> >
> > I have a CFM Streak Shadow (860 hours on the clock) I built from a kit
> which now has a 2200 Jabiru that I have flown all around the eastern side
of
> Australia for the last 10 years. Next month in February I will be flying
> down to Avalon Airport near Melbourne Victoria to the Avalon Airshow from
my
> home base at Caboolture just north of Brisbane Queensland. I need a good
> cross country aircraft to go further a-field and I feel a TW looks like
the
> answer. A friend of mine is also wishing to build one with me if I go
> ahead. There are only a hand full of TW here in Australia and most of
them
> are W8s'. I was told there is three W10 under construction in NSW the
state
> below Queensland were I live. I am lucky enough to have a W8 hangered 2
> doors away form me at Caboolture (www.cabaeroclub.org.au) which I have
flown
> three times and was quite impressed with its performance with the 0-200
> (100hp) in it. Please feel free to check our web site out. Awaiting you
> replies.
> >
> > Ross Leach (Caboolture, Queensland, Australia)
> >
> >
>
>
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