Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Re: W-8 (Rick and Cindy)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: W-8 (George Turner)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: W-8 (flamini2)
4. 08:57 AM - Re:O&O speed? (Fred Weaver)
5. 09:59 AM - Re: Re:O&O speed? (Boud Kuenen)
6. 01:36 PM - Re: Re:O&O speed? (Jerry Hey)
7. 02:06 PM - Re: Re:O&O speed? (Rick and Cindy)
8. 02:33 PM - Re: Re:O&O speed? (Earl Luce)
9. 03:00 PM - Re: Re:O&O speed? (Jerry Hey)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 (Bill newkirk)
11. 06:32 PM - W-8s' (john)
12. 07:59 PM - Re: W-8s' (Jim and Donna Clement)
13. 08:21 PM - Re: W-8s' (Jerry Hey)
Message 1
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races, should be
a hoot, huh!
Rick N241SW
flamini2 wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
>
> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same as
> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>
> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back to
> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish but
> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >
> > I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
> work
> > on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
> 150
> > mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
> >
> >
>
Message 2
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: George Turner <tailwind222@yahoo.com>
WITTMAN TAILWIND W10 AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE REPORT OVERVIEW
BY BRIEN A SEELEY
Cafe Test of Jim Clements 160 HP Tailwind N6168X
The high altitude cruise speeds of this Tailwind would imply that it is capable
of 220 mph at sea level. The owner has reported near 220 mph IAS in level flight
at 2900 RPM at low altitude.
http://members.eaa.org/home/flight_reports/wittman_tailwind.html
George......Phoenix
flamini2 <flamini2@attbi.com> wrote:--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2"
John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same as
full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back to
1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish but
we calc his time=abt 160 mph
As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: "john"
Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
>
> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
work
> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near the
150
> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious. JohnD
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 3
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
Rick and Cindy,
i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little over
1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
Dennis in Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
>
> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
should be
> a hoot, huh!
> Rick N241SW
>
> flamini2 wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
> >
> > John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the same
as
> > full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >
> > All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations back
to
> > 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> > competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing much
> > better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> > entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> > TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> > 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> > 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> > 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> > 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> > 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
but
> > we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to be
> > tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> > Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> > Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> > To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> > >
> > > I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will probably
> > work
> > > on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
the
> > 150
> > > mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
JohnD
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@flash.net>
Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
capabilities..
Weav
On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
>
> Rick and Cindy,
> i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
> over
> 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> Dennis in Chicago
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>
>
>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
>> <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
>>
>> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
> should be
>> a hoot, huh!
>> Rick N241SW
>>
>> flamini2 wrote:
>>
>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
>>>
>>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>>> same
> as
>>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>>>
>>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>>> back
> to
>>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
>>> much
>>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
>>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
>>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
>>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
>>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> but
>>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
>>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
>>> be
>>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>>> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>>>
>>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>>>>
>>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>>>> probably
>>> work
>>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> the
>>> 150
>>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> JohnD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
Rick,
When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he told
me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all
the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating about
166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise
at 7,500.
Regards,
Boud Kuenen
NX888WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@flash.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@flash.net>
>
> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> capabilities..
> Weav
> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
> >
> > Rick and Cindy,
> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
> > over
> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> > Dennis in Chicago
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >
> >
> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> >> <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> >>
> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
> > should be
> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> Rick N241SW
> >>
> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
> >>>
> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
> >>> same
> > as
> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >>>
> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
> >>> back
> > to
> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
> >>> much
> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> > but
> >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
> >>> be
> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >>> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >>>
> >>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >>>> probably
> >>> work
> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> > the
> >>> 150
> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> > JohnD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
>SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
>the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
>fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
>gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
>I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>Rick,
>
>When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he told
>me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all
>the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
>guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating about
>166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
>temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
>10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
>12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise
>at 7,500.
>
>Regards,
>Boud Kuenen
>NX888WT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@flash.net>
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@flash.net>
>>
>> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
>> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
>> capabilities..
>> Weav
>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>>
>> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
>> >
>> > Rick and Cindy,
>> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
>> > over
>> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
>> > Dennis in Chicago
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
>> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >
>> >
>> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
>> >> <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
>> >>
>> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
>> > should be
>> >> a hoot, huh!
>> >> Rick N241SW
>> >>
>> >> flamini2 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>> >>> same
>> > as
>> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>> >>>
>> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>> >>> back
>> > to
>> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
>> >>> much
>> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
>> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
>> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> > > but
> > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
>> >>> be
>> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>> >>> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >>>
>> >>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>> >>>> probably
>> >>> work
>> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> > > the
>> >>> 150
>> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
>> > JohnD
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 7
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
Jerry: HP is a large part of the answer, the other part is a properly matched
constant speed prop. The first is probably easier than the last.
Rick N241SW
Jerry Hey wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
>
> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>
> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>
> >Rick,
> >
> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he told
> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle all
> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind of
> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating about
> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph cruise
> >at 7,500.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Boud Kuenen
> >NX888WT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@flash.net>
> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >
> >
> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@flash.net>
> >>
> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> >> capabilities..
> >> Weav
> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
> >>
> >> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
> >> >
> >> > Rick and Cindy,
> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a little
> >> > over
> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> >> > Dennis in Chicago
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> >> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> >> >> <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some races,
> >> > should be
> >> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> >> Rick N241SW
> >> >>
> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
> >> >>> same
> >> > as
> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
> >> >>> back
> >> > to
> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not doing
> >> >>> much
> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's were
> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at 231.61mph.
> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate Dash
> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the finish
> > > > but
> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going to
> >> >>> be
> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >> >>> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >> >>>> probably
> >> >>> work
> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting near
> > > > the
> >> >>> 150
> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> >> > JohnD
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
Message 8
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@att.net>
Jerry
I was told by someone that Steve hired a guy to test fly one of his TW . He
put a sand bag on the right seat and put it through it's paces when the bag
fell against the control stick . The plane went in a straight down dive and
hit a little over 300. He managed to recover and land without incident .
After a closer look the rear spar carry through was bent.
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen"
<bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
>
>
> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>
> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>
>
> >Rick,
> >
> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he
told
> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle
all
> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind
of
> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating
about
> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
cruise
> >at 7,500.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Boud Kuenen
> >NX888WT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@flash.net>
> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
> >
> >
> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@flash.net>
> >>
> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
> >> capabilities..
> >> Weav
> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
> >>
> >> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
> >> >
> >> > Rick and Cindy,
> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a
little
> >> > over
> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
> >> > Dennis in Chicago
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> >> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> >> >> <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some
races,
> >> > should be
> >> >> a hoot, huh!
> >> >> Rick N241SW
> >> >>
> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2"
<flamini2@attbi.com>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
> >> >>> same
> >> > as
> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
> >> >>> back
> >> > to
> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not
doing
> >> >>> much
> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's
were
> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
231.61mph.
> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate
Dash
> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the
finish
> > > > but
> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going
to
> >> >>> be
> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >> >>> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
<frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
> >> >>>> probably
> >> >>> work
> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting
near
> > > > the
> >> >>> 150
> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
> >> > JohnD
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 9
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@att.net>
>Earl, that story was recounted by Jim Stanton in TT number 11.
>The only damage was to the center windshield tube. The g-meter
>registered 8.3 positive and 3.8 negative. That was an accident.
>Anybody do it on purpose? Amazing that one could even load the TW
>wing to 8 gs. How fast is too fast straight and level? How about
>250 mph? Is the TW safe at that speed.
>
>Jerry
> I was told by someone that Steve hired a guy to test fly one of his TW . He
>put a sand bag on the right seat and put it through it's paces when the bag
>fell against the control stick . The plane went in a straight down dive and
>hit a little over 300. He managed to recover and land without incident .
>After a closer look the rear spar carry through was bent.
>Earl Luce
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>
>
>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>>
>> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen"
><bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
>>
>>
>> >SPEED!!! a real Tailwind topic.
>>
>> >Two questions, other than h.p. why would the O & O be faster than
>> >the TW? Does it have less frontal plate for example. Secondly, how
>> >fast can a good TW be? Fred, going downhill how fast have you
>> >gone. I believe I read of someone approaching 300 mph in a dive but
>> >I can't find the reference. Maybe it was Steve. Jerry
>>
>>
>> >Rick,
>> >
>> >When I first got interested in the O&O I talked to Mac Mckenna, and he
>told
>> >me that he was in it with Steve one day at 10,000 ft with the throttle
>all
>> >the way in, giving a true airspeed of 218 mph. Since I am a numbers kind
>of
>> >guy, that reduces to 187 mph indicated while the engine was generating
>about
>> >166 hp, (ASSUMING IT WAS A STANDARD DAY). Since this was in Florida, the
>> >temp was probably above standard, so the density altitude was higher than
>> >10K. If this trial was conducted at an actual density altitude of, say,
>> >12K, all this would suggest the airplane was capable of about 225 mph
>cruise
>> >at 7,500.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Boud Kuenen
>> >NX888WT
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@flash.net>
>> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re:O&O speed?
>> >
>> >
>> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@flash.net>
>> >>
>> >> Jerome Thiessen mentioned to me that he and Steve flew the O&O at 250
>> >> indicated zipping across the farmlands. The airplane did have
>> >> capabilities..
>> >> Weav
>> >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 06:53 AM, flamini2 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" <flamini2@attbi.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > Rick and Cindy,
>> >> > i seem to remember Steve saying it was a 5 hr flight OSH-OCF a
>little
>> >> > over
>> >> > 1000 miles so over 200mph at full throttle should be no problem
>> >> > Dennis in Chicago
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Rick and Cindy" <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> > >> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rick and Cindy
> > >> >> <rcaviate@ne.infi.net>
> > >> >>
>> >> >> Dennis: If everything works out I intend to enter O-O in some
>races,
>> >> > should be
>> >> >> a hoot, huh!
>> >> >> Rick N241SW
>> >> >>
>> >> >> flamini2 wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2"
><flamini2@attbi.com>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> John, Here is an old post with race speeds that would be about the
>> >> >>> same
>> >> > as
>> >> >>> full throttle at 7500ft and 75% power cruise.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> All this talk about speed has me going through old Sport Aviations
>> >> >>> back
>> >> > to
>> >> >>> 1963, Steve won the Lowers, Baker,Falk speed, payload,fastest lap
>> >> >>> competition in 1978 with lap speed of 194.32mph so we are not
>doing
>> >> >>> much
>> >> >>> better today, That sounds good but in the following years no TW's
>were
>> >> >>> entered and by 1985 the fastest lap was won by AJ Smith at
>231.61mph.
>> >> >>> TW's in recent Sun 100 races at Sun-n- Fun
>> >> >>> 1991 Hiram Douglas 85 hp 161.18 mph
>> >> >>> 1993 Lance Truax 90 hp 149.60 mph
>> >> >>> 1994 Lance Truax 90 hp 160.61 mph
>> >> >>> 1997 Larry Pennoch 85 hp 149.13 mph this was in the Copperstate
>Dash
>> > > >>> 2000 Dennis Flamini 180 hp 195.89 mph
>> > > >>> 2000 Jim Guildi 85 hp they missed clocking him at the
>finish
>> > > > but
>> > > >>> we calc his time=abt 160 mph
>> > > >>> As a note in 2001 a 180hp RV-6 did 203.03 kts or 233.48 mph going
>to
>> >> >>> be
>> >> >>> tough to beat but a challenge for JC!!!
>> >> >>> Any of you racers on this list want to comment on your adventures?
>> >> >>> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>> >> >>> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> >> >>> Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john"
><frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I have a W-8 project that I bought several years ago and will
>> >> >>>> probably
>> >> >>> work
>> >> >>>> on it after the W-10 is completed. Question, is anyone getting
>near
>> > > > the
>> >> >>> 150
>> >> >>>> mph on the c-85 engine as is stated in Steves material. Curious.
>> >> > JohnD
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8. How about
an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I have a
W8/W9 to put it in.
Bill Newkirk,
Fresno, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen"
<bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
>
> Gary,
>
> The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it has less
> horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design horizontal
stabilizer
> incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be OK (which
it
> won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment on the
> airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the horizontal
> stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge of the
tail
> down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount of
nose-down
> force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery. The net
> increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you will
> substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified airplanes
> that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and Piper
> Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance springs and
> bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what you want
to
> put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower only, (forget
> increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency, etc.) the
> expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%, but given
> everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be 10%. Also ,
> you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on the
> controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range, etc.,
etc.
> See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is one of the
> best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
>
> Boud Kuenen
> NX888WT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry@peedeeworld.net>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Gary Fincher"
> <backcountry@peedeeworld.net>
> >
> > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a 0-320. I was
> told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed. Is there
> any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies will be
> appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Thanks for the info on the W-8, its interesting how much money and fuel one
can pour into the engine ( 0-320 and or 0-360,etc.) to gain 22 or 23 percent
in speed. JohnD
Message 12
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
I have found that engine size doesn't mean much as for fuel burn. If you
have a 160hp tailwind and fly alongside a 100hp tailwind on a cross country,
you both will use about the same amount of fuel. I just flew alongside a
Cessna 182 with my 160hp trigear from Baraboo WI to Salome AZ, about 1500
miles. My fuel burn was 5.6 gph. Engine rpm was 2050-2100 rpm. At 9500 feet
the 182 was full everything and I was only pulling 11 inches of manifold
pressure. On one of the trips to SnF, Russ flew his 90hp TW and I had one of
my 160hp TWs, I used 3 gallons less fuel and was there 1 1/2 hours sooner.
So, if less fuel burn is what you are after, put the O320 in and pull the
throttle back. When it is hot, heavy and density altitude is 4500 feet or
higher, you can still fly. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8s'
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>
> Thanks for the info on the W-8, its interesting how much money and fuel
one
> can pour into the engine ( 0-320 and or 0-360,etc.) to gain 22 or 23
percent
> in speed. JohnD
>
>
Message 13
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>Amen Brother!!! Besides POWER is fun. A 150 mph Tailwind is
>(yawn) a good airplane but it would not keep me awake nights
>dreaming in anticipation. Jerry
>
>I have found that engine size doesn't mean much as for fuel burn. If you
>have a 160hp tailwind and fly alongside a 100hp tailwind on a cross country,
>you both will use about the same amount of fuel. I just flew alongside a
>Cessna 182 with my 160hp trigear from Baraboo WI to Salome AZ, about 1500
>miles. My fuel burn was 5.6 gph. Engine rpm was 2050-2100 rpm. At 9500 feet
>the 182 was full everything and I was only pulling 11 inches of manifold
>pressure. On one of the trips to SnF, Russ flew his 90hp TW and I had one of
>my 160hp TWs, I used 3 gallons less fuel and was there 1 1/2 hours sooner.
>So, if less fuel burn is what you are after, put the O320 in and pull the
>throttle back. When it is hot, heavy and density altitude is 4500 feet or
>higher, you can still fly. Jim
>
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