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1. 06:18 AM - Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 (David Magaw)
2. 05:04 PM - Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 (Bill newkirk)
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| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know what
it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has lead
in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge line
(the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it). This is
done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since that will
add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the hinge
line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch of
covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the area
and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator. Added lead
to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
Does this help?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
>
> DAVE;
> I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at the
> hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> Thanks,
> Bill Newkirk
> Fresno CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> >
> > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the leading
> > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of the
> > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> balanced
> > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of the
> > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of the
> > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a locking
> > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
(slightly
> > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
style.
> > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
N202Q.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk"
<bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > >
> > > DAVE;
> > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > >
> > > Bill Newkirk
> > > Fresno
> > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> > > >
> > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
> > > controls)
> > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
> country
> > > and
> > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
about
> > 157
> > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a
> little
> > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and
> there.
> > > My
> > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and higher
> > > density
> > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a Cessna
> 150.
> > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want to
be
> > > able
> > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
days
> > with
> > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The
> O-235
> > > will
> > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > > Therefore,
> > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit
> right
> > in
> > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
fuel
> > tank
> > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > > N202Q
> > > > W-8+
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8.
How
> > > about
> > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding. I
> > have
> > > a
> > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
> > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen"
> > > > > <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it
has
> > less
> > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
horizontal
> > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be
OK
> > > (which
> > > > > it
> > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion moment
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> > > > horizontal
> > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading edge
of
> > the
> > > > > tail
> > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the amount
of
> > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach recovery.
> > The
> > > > net
> > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you
> will
> > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In certified
> > > > airplanes
> > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210 and
> > Piper
> > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance
> > springs
> > > > and
> > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not what
> you
> > > want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
only,
> > > > (forget
> > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller efficiency,
> > etc.)
> > > > the
> > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about 18%,
> but
> > > > given
> > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
10%.
> > > Also
> > > > ,
> > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish on
> the
> > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and range,
> > etc.,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is
one
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry@peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Gary Fincher"
> > > > > > <backcountry@peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
> 0-320.
> > I
> > > > was
> > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be installed.
> Is
> > > > there
> > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies
> will
> > be
> > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 0-235 IN A W-8 |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
Thanks, Dave.
Bill Newkirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
>
> The portion of the elevator that is forward of the hinge (I don't know
what
> it is called specifically--it is the counter tab at the outer end) has
lead
> in it to balance the elevator with the balance point being the hinge line
> (the center of the front elevator tube that has the hinges on it). This
is
> done taking into account the weight of the fabric and paint, since that
will
> add more weight to the back portion of the elevator (ie behind the hinge
> line). Since I put the lead in before covering, I had taken a swatch of
> covering that I had from another plane, weighed it and calculated the area
> and thus the weight and moment for the covering of the elevator. Added
lead
> to the front of the tab to balance. It came out in the end perfectly,
> although I could have drilled the lead for fine tuning.
>
> Does this help?
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> >
> > DAVE;
> > I don't know what you mean when you say you "balanced the elevator at
the
> > hinge line(with covering)." Please enlighten me.
> > Thanks,
> > Bill Newkirk
> > Fresno CA
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> > >
> > > I only sized the tailfeathers to the W-10 size, but rounded the
leading
> > > outer corner to look more W-8 style rather than the sharp corner of
the
> > > W-10. I have the counter weight portion just like the W-10, and I
> > balanced
> > > the elevator at the hinge line (with covering). The leading edge of
the
> > > horizontal stab, because of the slightly increased size, is ahead of
the
> > > place where it normally bolts to the fuselage. I just used a locking
> > > nutplate in the stab and bolt through from inside the fuselage. The
> > > vertical stab and rudder are sized to the same area as the W-10
> (slightly
> > > larger than W-8), but again had the rounded leading corner per W-8
> style.
> > > You can see pics of my plane on the Unofficial tailwind site under
> N202Q.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill newkirk" <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bill newkirk"
> <bilnewkirk@msn.com>
> > > >
> > > > DAVE;
> > > > Thanks for your reply.
> > > > How much modification have you done to the tail feathers?
> > > >
> > > > Bill Newkirk
> > > > Fresno
> > > > N13BN (Murphy Rebel)
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David Magaw" <dmagaw@att.net>
> > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-235 IN A W-8
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "David Magaw"
<dmagaw@att.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill: I have a W-8 (but with W-10 tailfeathers and modified W-10
> > > > controls)
> > > > > that I flew with an O-235 for a year (156 hours) both long cross
> > country
> > > > and
> > > > > local flights. It is a delightful plane to fly. Max speed was
> about
> > > 157
> > > > > MPH, but I think I could have gained a few MPH with a prop with a
> > little
> > > > > less pitch, and perhaps a little cleanup on the airframe here and
> > there.
> > > > My
> > > > > biggest complaint was that at gross (1300#, mty was 800#) and
higher
> > > > density
> > > > > altitudes, the takeoff and climb performance was much like a
Cessna
> > 150.
> > > > > Again, some prop mods could have improved that some. But I want
to
> be
> > > > able
> > > > > to fly out of Tahoe and places in New Mexico and Colorado on hot
> days
> > > with
> > > > > two people and baggage and still have fuel to get somewhere. The
> > O-235
> > > > will
> > > > > not give safe performance with those conditions, in my opinion.
> > > > Therefore,
> > > > > I am in the process of converting to a 150 HP O-320. It will fit
> > right
> > > in
> > > > > and the weight is not much more. I am going to add an auxiliary
> fuel
> > > tank
> > > > > behind the seat, also will help with the W&B.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > > N202Q
> > > > > W-8+
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I appreciated Boud's response to the question of a 320 in a W8.
> How
> > > > about
> > > > > > an O-235. I have one and have dis-assembled it for rebuilding.
I
> > > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > W8/W9 to put it in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Newkirk,
> > > > > > Fresno, CA
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Boud Kuenen" <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
> > > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Boud Kuenen"
> > > > > > <bkuenen@horizonaero.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gary,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The W-8 airframe is about 7 inches shorter than a W-10 and it
> has
> > > less
> > > > > > > horizontal stabilizer area as well as different design
> horizontal
> > > > > > stabilizer
> > > > > > > incidence. If you assume that your weight and balance will be
> OK
> > > > (which
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > won't), the higher speed will cause a higher wing torsion
moment
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > airframe which will require a greater balancing force from the
> > > > > horizontal
> > > > > > > stabilizer. This means you will have to reset the leading
edge
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > tail
> > > > > > > down. This will cause greater trim drag, and reduce the
amount
> of
> > > > > > nose-down
> > > > > > > force available for such tings as high angle of attach
recovery.
> > > The
> > > > > net
> > > > > > > increase in airspeed will not be what you might expect and you
> > will
> > > > > > > substantialy reduce the stability of the airplane. In
certified
> > > > > airplanes
> > > > > > > that went to bigger engines over the years, (like cessna 210
and
> > > Piper
> > > > > > > Comanche) the solution was/is a complicated system of balance
> > > springs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > bob weights attached to the elevator system; certainly not
what
> > you
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > put in a Tailwind. If you compute the numbers on horsepower
> only,
> > > > > (forget
> > > > > > > increased weight, cooling drag, trim drag, propeller
efficiency,
> > > etc.)
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > expected speed increase from a 150 hp engine would be about
18%,
> > but
> > > > > given
> > > > > > > everything else thats involved, it probably wouldn't even be
> 10%.
> > > > Also
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > > you would have an airplane that is less stable, feel sluggish
on
> > the
> > > > > > > controls (especially in pitch), have less useful load and
range,
> > > etc.,
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > See why Steve said, "keep it light"? In my opinion, a W-8 is
> one
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > best airplanes ever designed for 85-100 hp, keep it that way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Boud Kuenen
> > > > > > > NX888WT
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Gary Fincher" <backcountry@peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: 0-320 installed in W-8
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Gary Fincher"
> > > > > > > <backcountry@peedeeworld.net>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a W-8 with a C-90 and am interested in installing a
> > 0-320.
> > > I
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > told that the W-8 wasn't designed for the 0-320 to be
installed.
> > Is
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > any out there flying? If so what needs to be done? Any replies
> > will
> > > be
> > > > > > > appreciated. Thanks, Gary Fincher
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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