Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:59 PM - Just thinking (Luc H.)
2. 01:45 PM - Re: Doors (Eric Schlanser)
3. 01:45 PM - Re: Just thinking (Lovelace, Malcolm)
4. 01:53 PM - Re: Just thinking (Jim Clement)
5. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Doors (Jim Clement)
6. 02:46 PM - Re: Just thinking (Earl Luce)
7. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Doors (RJ)
8. 05:44 PM - Re: Just thinking (Phil Flaugher)
9. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Doors (Jim Clement)
10. 06:03 PM - Re: Just thinking (Kenneth Graves)
11. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Doors (Fred Weaver)
12. 07:02 PM - Re: Just thinking (CarRxW10@aol.com)
13. 07:24 PM - Just Thinking - Tailwind Builders Assistance (Phil Flaugher)
14. 07:49 PM - Re: Just thinking (Dave Conrad)
15. 08:01 PM - Re: Just thinking (dmagaw@att.net)
16. 08:42 PM - Re: Just thinking (Fred Weaver)
Message 1
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What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week
long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin,
Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo.
The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars,
wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers,
control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear
with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage
sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what
services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for
planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance.
This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs
that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored
by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you
think?
http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder
Assistance Program.
http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program,
Neenah WI.
Message 2
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Jim, When bonding the aluminum door skins to aluminum door frames, I think I remember
you have said you use auto glass urethane adhesive.
Do you use urethane adhesive primer first or just the adhesive as is?
Also, do you also use it to glue in the acrylic?
Eric - still making doors in Kalamazoo
From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>Subject: Re: DoorsDate: Nov 19, 2003
Make the outside of the door to match the outside of the jam, the door is
convex as is the rear door post if faired out. Jim C
---------------------------------
Message 3
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It would depend on the demand for each type of part that you mentioned. Most
of the parts on a Tailwind are not to complex to build. Maybe another way
would be to decide on a part or two this year and go through the process on
how you make it with out having to actually make the part.
Malcolm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luc H. [SMTP:4luc@sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:57 PM
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
>
> What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A
> week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick
> Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near
> or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials
> like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat,
> rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts
> like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps
> and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made
> brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed
> and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material
> suppliers could be paid in advance.
>
> This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder
> programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would
> have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to
> one. What do you think?
>
> <http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html> Lancair Builder
> Assistance Program.
>
> <http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm> Esqual Builder Assistance
> Program,
> Neenah WI.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
Luc, let,s have it at your house. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Luc H.
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week
long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin,
Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo.
The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing,
spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers,
control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear
with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage
sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on
what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for
planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance.
This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs
that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be
sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do
you think?
http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder
Assistance Program.
http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program,
Neenah WI.
Message 5
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Etch and prime the aluminum where you are going to glue it with epoxy primer. Then,
using urethane primer is a good idea before the w/s adhesive calk is used.
Also some countersink pop rivets should be used. Don't use it to glue in the
windows, you will have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Schlanser
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 2:45 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors
Jim, When bonding the aluminum door skins to aluminum door frames, I think I
remember you have said you use auto glass urethane adhesive.
Do you use urethane adhesive primer first or just the adhesive as is?
Also, do you also use it to glue in the acrylic?
Eric - still making doors in Kalamazoo
From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
Subject: Re: Doors
Date: Nov 19, 2003
Make the outside of the door to match the outside of the jam, the door is
convex as is the rear door post if faired out. Jim C
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
Luc,
I like your idea ! I'll be glad to help . We can run it like the EAA workshop
............the seem to have it down .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
Luc, let,s have it at your house. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Luc H.
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A
week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin,
Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo.
The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing,
spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers,
control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear
with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked
fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on
what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance
for planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance.
This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs
that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to
be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do
you think?
http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder
Assistance Program.
http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program,
Neenah WI.
Message 7
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ <gatsby8898@yahoo.com>
Jim, what do you use to seal the windows? RJ
--- Jim Clement <jc168x@tds.net> wrote:
> Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will
> have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C
> > Also, do you also use it to glue in the
acrylic?
>
> Eric -
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
An incredible idea!
Now, for those of us who never seem to get the finances and time together at the
same time, how about the possibility of a semi-professional video production
of these programs taking us from known performance values and limitations, plans
(including anomalies), subsequently developed plans and mods, practical materials
and substitutions, fabrication methods and details, recommended material
and component sources with contact information. This production would make
the Tailwind the closest thing to a builder assistance fast build kit out there.
You could even intersperse every "chapter" with pearls of wisdom (?) from Fred
Weaver and common sense narration by the likes of Jim Clements, Rick Crosslin,
Jerry Hey, Brian Alley, Calbie Woods, etc.
Seriously, this production would eliminate 90% of the fear and maybe just as high
a percentage of time-stealing head scratching insuring a much higher start
and completion rate for the Tailwind. I don't believe the camaderie of the List/Forum
would be sacrificed in any way. This Production/Guide would decrease builder
time by a huge factor!
Phil Flaugher
Birmingham, AL
----- Original Message -----
From: Luc H.
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:56 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week
long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin,
Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo.
The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing,
spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers,
control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear
with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage
sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on
what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for
planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance.
This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs
that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be
sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do
you think?
http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder
Assistance Program.
http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program,
Neenah WI.
Message 9
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim Clement" <jc168x@tds.net>
I usually don't seal them. If you think you should, use something that
easily comes apart and is water soluble. I have used bath tub seal that
comes in a squeezable tube. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ" <gatsby8898@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ <gatsby8898@yahoo.com>
>
> Jim, what do you use to seal the windows? RJ
>
> --- Jim Clement <jc168x@tds.net> wrote:
> > Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will
> > have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C
>
> > > Also, do you also use it to glue in the
> acrylic?
> >
> > Eric -
>
> __________________________________
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
Don't think one would need a full week. Our Chapter offers a weekend RV Forum featuring
"expert" speakers. Audiovisuals and demos plus a deal with both Wicks
and ACS for 10% off on all orders placed during that weekend (we have a fax machine
available so that no one has to be on the receiving end to take the order).
More detail if you are interested.
Ken
"Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week
long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin,
Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo.
The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars,
wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers,
control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear
with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage
sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what
services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for
planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance.
This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs
that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored
by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you
think?
http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder
Assistance Program.
http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program,
Neenah WI.
---------------------------------
Message 11
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Builders... The side windows don't really see any moisture while flying
or parked. There is no real need to seal them. Except for noise and that can
be accomplished by fitting the windows somewhat snugly into position. That
is all that's required. No need to squirt lot's of caulk and stuff, making a
big mess that won't change a thing.....
Having a good time?
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Clement" <jc168x@tds.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim Clement" <jc168x@tds.net>
>
> I usually don't seal them. If you think you should, use something that
> easily comes apart and is water soluble. I have used bath tub seal that
> comes in a squeezable tube. Jim C
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ" <gatsby8898@yahoo.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ <gatsby8898@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Jim, what do you use to seal the windows? RJ
> >
> > --- Jim Clement <jc168x@tds.net> wrote:
> > > Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will
> > > have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C
> >
> > > > Also, do you also use it to glue in the
> > acrylic?
> > >
> > > Eric -
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
Phil, just a little off the subject, but I noticed you are from Birmingham,
Al. I am from Auburn Al. Are you building and if so what? W10 or 8, with or
w/o mods? I am building a W10 trike w/clement mods. You can email me at
carrxw10@aol.com so as not to clutter up the list. Alex.
do not archive.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Just Thinking - Tailwind Builders Assistance |
Phil wrote:"You could even intersperse every "chapter" with pearls of wisdom (?)
from Fred Weaver...."
Fred wrote: "Builders... The side windows don't really see any moisture while
flying
or parked. There is no real need to seal them. Except for noise and that can
be accomplished by fitting the windows somewhat snugly into position. That
is all that's required. No need to squirt lot's of caulk and stuff, making a
big mess that won't change a thing.....
Having a good time?"
Weav
My point is demonstrated.....Fred could also do the hot-rod flying demos....this
thing would be great!!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
I'm for keeping it hard, that keeps the rif raf away.
On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 07:42 PM, Phil Flaugher wrote:
> An incredible idea!
> Now, for those of us who never seem to get the finances and time
> together at the same time, how about the possibility of a
> semi-professional video production of these programs taking us from
> known performance values and limitations, plans (including anomalies),
> subsequently developed plans and mods, practical materials and
> substitutions, fabrication methods and details, recommended material
> and component sources with contact information. This production would
> make the Tailwind the closest thing to a builder assistance fast build
> kit out there. You could even intersperse every "chapter" with pearls
> of wisdom (?) from Fred Weaver and common sense narration by the likes
> of Jim Clements, Rick Crosslin, Jerry Hey, Brian Alley, Calbie Woods,
> etc.
> Seriously, this production would eliminate 90% of the fear and maybe
> just as high a percentage of time-stealing head scratching insuring a
> much higher start and completion rate for the Tailwind. I don't
> believe the camaderie of the List/Forum would be sacrificed in any
> way.=A0This Production/Guide would decrease builder time by a huge
> factor!
>
> Phil Flaugher
> Birmingham, AL=A0
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Luc H.
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:56 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
>
> What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance
> Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim
> Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days
> before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would
> include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools
> with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control
> parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with
> engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked
> fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be
> based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be
> paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid
> in advance.
>
> This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder
> programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This
> would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or
> access to one. What do you think?
>
> http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html=A0 Lancair Builder
> Assistance Program.
>
> http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance
> Program,
> Neenah=A0 WI.
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: dmagaw@att.net
Actually, I have had the same idea, and I have been gathering e-mails with construction
tips from those same personages. I have a lot of them in a couple of
Word documents, in no particular organization. I been thinking that this may
be a project that I may do when I retire, but that seems to be a number of years
off still. I would be happy to give it to anyone who would undertake the task
of organizing a "builder's manual" of sorts. Actually a purusal of the archives
of the two e-mail lists will give any builder a lot of information on just
about all aspects of building a tailwind, but it is a tedious way to get the
information.
Dave
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Just thinking |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Yeah...... Like we should stick to one GOOD list....One that has an archive
with a life expectancy of Forever.
Resting my case......Again,
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: <dmagaw@att.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: dmagaw@att.net
>
> Actually, I have had the same idea, and I have been gathering e-mails with
construction tips from those same personages. I have a lot of them in a
couple of Word documents, in no particular organization. I been thinking
that this may be a project that I may do when I retire, but that seems to be
a number of years off still. I would be happy to give it to anyone who would
undertake the task of organizing a "builder's manual" of sorts. Actually a
purusal of the archives of the two e-mail lists will give any builder a lot
of information on just about all aspects of building a tailwind, but it is a
tedious way to get the information.
> Dave
>
>
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