---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/18/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:59 PM - Just thinking (Luc H.) 2. 01:45 PM - Re: Doors (Eric Schlanser) 3. 01:45 PM - Re: Just thinking (Lovelace, Malcolm) 4. 01:53 PM - Re: Just thinking (Jim Clement) 5. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Doors (Jim Clement) 6. 02:46 PM - Re: Just thinking (Earl Luce) 7. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Doors (RJ) 8. 05:44 PM - Re: Just thinking (Phil Flaugher) 9. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Doors (Jim Clement) 10. 06:03 PM - Re: Just thinking (Kenneth Graves) 11. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Doors (Fred Weaver) 12. 07:02 PM - Re: Just thinking (CarRxW10@aol.com) 13. 07:24 PM - Just Thinking - Tailwind Builders Assistance (Phil Flaugher) 14. 07:49 PM - Re: Just thinking (Dave Conrad) 15. 08:01 PM - Re: Just thinking (dmagaw@att.net) 16. 08:42 PM - Re: Just thinking (Fred Weaver) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:25 PM PST US From: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance. This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you think? http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder Assistance Program. http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program, Neenah WI. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:25 PM PST US From: Eric Schlanser Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors Jim, When bonding the aluminum door skins to aluminum door frames, I think I remember you have said you use auto glass urethane adhesive. Do you use urethane adhesive primer first or just the adhesive as is? Also, do you also use it to glue in the acrylic? Eric - still making doors in Kalamazoo From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>Subject: Re: DoorsDate: Nov 19, 2003 Make the outside of the door to match the outside of the jam, the door is convex as is the rear door post if faired out. Jim C --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:34 PM PST US From: "Lovelace, Malcolm" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Just thinking It would depend on the demand for each type of part that you mentioned. Most of the parts on a Tailwind are not to complex to build. Maybe another way would be to decide on a part or two this year and go through the process on how you make it with out having to actually make the part. Malcolm > -----Original Message----- > From: Luc H. [SMTP:4luc@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:57 PM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking > > What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A > week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick > Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near > or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials > like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, > rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts > like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps > and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made > brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed > and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material > suppliers could be paid in advance. > > This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder > programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would > have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to > one. What do you think? > > Lancair Builder > Assistance Program. > > Esqual Builder Assistance > Program, > Neenah WI. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:00 PM PST US From: "Jim Clement" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking Luc, let,s have it at your house. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: Luc H. To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:56 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance. This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you think? http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder Assistance Program. http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program, Neenah WI. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Clement" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors Etch and prime the aluminum where you are going to glue it with epoxy primer. Then, using urethane primer is a good idea before the w/s adhesive calk is used. Also some countersink pop rivets should be used. Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Schlanser To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 2:45 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors Jim, When bonding the aluminum door skins to aluminum door frames, I think I remember you have said you use auto glass urethane adhesive. Do you use urethane adhesive primer first or just the adhesive as is? Also, do you also use it to glue in the acrylic? Eric - still making doors in Kalamazoo From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Doors Date: Nov 19, 2003 Make the outside of the door to match the outside of the jam, the door is convex as is the rear door post if faired out. Jim C ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:47 PM PST US From: "Earl Luce" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking Luc, I like your idea ! I'll be glad to help . We can run it like the EAA workshop ............the seem to have it down . Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Clement To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking Luc, let,s have it at your house. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: Luc H. To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:56 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance. This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you think? http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder Assistance Program. http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program, Neenah WI. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:33 PM PST US From: RJ Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors --> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ Jim, what do you use to seal the windows? RJ --- Jim Clement wrote: > Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will > have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C > > Also, do you also use it to glue in the acrylic? > > Eric - __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:28 PM PST US From: "Phil Flaugher" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking An incredible idea! Now, for those of us who never seem to get the finances and time together at the same time, how about the possibility of a semi-professional video production of these programs taking us from known performance values and limitations, plans (including anomalies), subsequently developed plans and mods, practical materials and substitutions, fabrication methods and details, recommended material and component sources with contact information. This production would make the Tailwind the closest thing to a builder assistance fast build kit out there. You could even intersperse every "chapter" with pearls of wisdom (?) from Fred Weaver and common sense narration by the likes of Jim Clements, Rick Crosslin, Jerry Hey, Brian Alley, Calbie Woods, etc. Seriously, this production would eliminate 90% of the fear and maybe just as high a percentage of time-stealing head scratching insuring a much higher start and completion rate for the Tailwind. I don't believe the camaderie of the List/Forum would be sacrificed in any way. This Production/Guide would decrease builder time by a huge factor! Phil Flaugher Birmingham, AL ----- Original Message ----- From: Luc H. To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:56 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance. This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you think? http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder Assistance Program. http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program, Neenah WI. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:03 PM PST US From: "Jim Clement" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim Clement" I usually don't seal them. If you think you should, use something that easily comes apart and is water soluble. I have used bath tub seal that comes in a squeezable tube. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ > > Jim, what do you use to seal the windows? RJ > > --- Jim Clement wrote: > > Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will > > have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C > > > > Also, do you also use it to glue in the > acrylic? > > > > Eric - > > __________________________________ > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:13 PM PST US From: Kenneth Graves Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking Don't think one would need a full week. Our Chapter offers a weekend RV Forum featuring "expert" speakers. Audiovisuals and demos plus a deal with both Wicks and ACS for 10% off on all orders placed during that weekend (we have a fax machine available so that no one has to be on the receiving end to take the order). More detail if you are interested. Ken "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net> wrote: What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid in advance. This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or access to one. What do you think? http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html Lancair Builder Assistance Program. http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance Program, Neenah WI. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:01 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" Builders... The side windows don't really see any moisture while flying or parked. There is no real need to seal them. Except for noise and that can be accomplished by fitting the windows somewhat snugly into position. That is all that's required. No need to squirt lot's of caulk and stuff, making a big mess that won't change a thing..... Having a good time? Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Clement" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim Clement" > > I usually don't seal them. If you think you should, use something that > easily comes apart and is water soluble. I have used bath tub seal that > comes in a squeezable tube. Jim C > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Doors > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ > > > > Jim, what do you use to seal the windows? RJ > > > > --- Jim Clement wrote: > > > Don't use it to glue in the windows, you will > > > have a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Jim C > > > > > > Also, do you also use it to glue in the > > acrylic? > > > > > > Eric - > > > > __________________________________ > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:08 PM PST US From: CarRxW10@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking Phil, just a little off the subject, but I noticed you are from Birmingham, Al. I am from Auburn Al. Are you building and if so what? W10 or 8, with or w/o mods? I am building a W10 trike w/clement mods. You can email me at carrxw10@aol.com so as not to clutter up the list. Alex. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:51 PM PST US From: "Phil Flaugher" Subject: Tailwind-List: Just Thinking - Tailwind Builders Assistance Phil wrote:"You could even intersperse every "chapter" with pearls of wisdom (?) from Fred Weaver...." Fred wrote: "Builders... The side windows don't really see any moisture while flying or parked. There is no real need to seal them. Except for noise and that can be accomplished by fitting the windows somewhat snugly into position. That is all that's required. No need to squirt lot's of caulk and stuff, making a big mess that won't change a thing..... Having a good time?" Weav My point is demonstrated.....Fred could also do the hot-rod flying demos....this thing would be great!! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking From: Dave Conrad I'm for keeping it hard, that keeps the rif raf away. On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 07:42 PM, Phil Flaugher wrote: > An incredible idea! > Now, for those of us who never seem to get the finances and time > together at the same time, how about the possibility of a > semi-professional video production of these programs taking us from > known performance values and limitations, plans (including anomalies), > subsequently developed plans and mods, practical materials and > substitutions, fabrication methods and details, recommended material > and component sources with contact information. This production would > make the Tailwind the closest thing to a builder assistance fast build > kit out there. You could even intersperse every "chapter" with pearls > of wisdom (?) from Fred Weaver and common sense narration by the likes > of Jim Clements, Rick Crosslin, Jerry Hey, Brian Alley, Calbie Woods, > etc. > Seriously, this production would eliminate 90% of the fear and maybe > just as high a percentage of time-stealing head scratching insuring a > much higher start and completion rate for the Tailwind. I don't > believe the camaderie of the List/Forum would be sacrificed in any > way.=A0This Production/Guide would decrease builder time by a huge > factor! > > Phil Flaugher > Birmingham, AL=A0 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Luc H. > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:56 PM > Subject: Tailwind-List: Just thinking > > What do you guys think of an annual Tailwind Builder Assistance > Program, A week long intense program with expert instructors like Jim > Clement, Rick Crosslin, Earl Luce and other's to be held the 7 days > before Baraboo, near or at Baraboo. The price of the program would > include all needed materials like tubing, spars, wood, epoxy, tools > with jigs (fuselage, door, seat, rib, wing, tail feathers, control > parts). Options could be pre-made parts like doors, landing gear with > engine mount, hidden hinges, aluminum flaps and ailerons, pre-tacked > fuselage sides, ribs, seats, pre-bent or made brackets. Price would be > based on what services and materials you needed and would have to be > paid in advance for planning and so material suppliers could be paid > in advance. > > This is just a rough thought brought on buy Lancair and others builder > programs that help you do a year worth of work in just a week. This > would have to be sponsored by someone that had a large empty hangar or > access to one. What do you think? > > http://www.lancair-kits.com/builders_workshop.html=A0 Lancair Builder > Assistance Program. > > http://www.esqualna.com/Mainmenu.htm Esqual Builder Assistance > Program, > Neenah=A0 WI. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:30 PM PST US From: dmagaw@att.net Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking --> Tailwind-List message posted by: dmagaw@att.net Actually, I have had the same idea, and I have been gathering e-mails with construction tips from those same personages. I have a lot of them in a couple of Word documents, in no particular organization. I been thinking that this may be a project that I may do when I retire, but that seems to be a number of years off still. I would be happy to give it to anyone who would undertake the task of organizing a "builder's manual" of sorts. Actually a purusal of the archives of the two e-mail lists will give any builder a lot of information on just about all aspects of building a tailwind, but it is a tedious way to get the information. Dave ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:21 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" Yeah...... Like we should stick to one GOOD list....One that has an archive with a life expectancy of Forever. Resting my case......Again, Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Just thinking > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: dmagaw@att.net > > Actually, I have had the same idea, and I have been gathering e-mails with construction tips from those same personages. I have a lot of them in a couple of Word documents, in no particular organization. I been thinking that this may be a project that I may do when I retire, but that seems to be a number of years off still. I would be happy to give it to anyone who would undertake the task of organizing a "builder's manual" of sorts. Actually a purusal of the archives of the two e-mail lists will give any builder a lot of information on just about all aspects of building a tailwind, but it is a tedious way to get the information. > Dave > >