---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/04/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:59 AM - Re: IFR Panel (William Bernard) 2. 06:38 AM - Re: IFR Panel (CarRxW10@aol.com) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: IFR Panel (Earl Luce) 4. 07:47 AM - Re: IFR Panel (Luc H.) 5. 07:50 AM - Re: IFR Panel (DaveM) 6. 08:10 AM - Re: IFR Panel (Fred Weaver) 7. 10:39 AM - Re: IFR Panel (George Turner) 8. 11:41 AM - Re: IFR Panel (Richard Lamb) 9. 11:49 AM - Re: Comm in a bag? (Richard Lamb) 10. 12:58 PM - Re landing gear (james wright) 11. 01:21 PM - Re: TW landing gear (Kenneth Graves) 12. 01:31 PM - Re: Comm in a bag? (Kenneth Graves) 13. 01:40 PM - Re: IFR Panel (IslPilot@aol.com) 14. 01:43 PM - Re: IFR Panel (IslPilot@aol.com) 15. 01:45 PM - Re: IFR Panel (IslPilot@aol.com) 16. 03:37 PM - Re: TW landing gear (Hjelle) 17. 04:21 PM - Re: IFR Panel (CarRxW10@aol.com) 18. 05:40 PM - Tailwind Times Subscription (Jerry Hey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:59 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Paul, how much room does the Dynon unit take behind the panel, including the connectors and all? I want to put in gyros at some point and space behind the panel becomes an issue. That panel looks really good. Bill N40WB ----- Original Message ----- From: IslPilot@aol.com To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:11 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel RJ: The Dynon is completely self contained except for the angle of attack sensor/heated pitot and the remote magnetic sensor which is optional and used only if you have too much magnetic interference. I thought I would probably need it with the tube construction of the Tailwind but they indicated that I could probably compensate it out and to try it first. Believe me its all there and readable and seems pretty rugged for $1995. I opted for the internal battery backup which gives you an additional 2 hours with a power loss. Everyone that comes in the shop has to play with it and the battery has not died in three months..yet. On the Lightspeed Plasma III you get the small digital display screen with the variable timing advance rheostat. It came prewired and now I have space so I figured no big deal, but you are correct in that it could have been wired through the EIS. Today I will get more involved with wiring the pin connectors for the Dynon and the EIS. Got distracted wet sanding my wings for the one man body shop close by. They are getting a Super Canary Yellow You Better Be Able to See Me Now Paint Job, after this summer where my buddies would not see me and scare me by turning in to me with the plane's pretty much all white paint job when I came up alongside them flying. Paul N557CL Charlevoix, MI ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:08 AM PST US From: CarRxW10@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Hey guys, I like this system, and would like to use one in my plane, but my concern is, what happens in a complete power failure? seems ALL is lost. one should have a redundent system somewhere. Alex ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:24 AM PST US From: "Earl Luce" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Paul, How deep is the Dynon ? Will it fit in the panel at the point where the gas tank is behind it ? Earl Luce ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:01 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Paul, how much room does the Dynon unit take behind the panel, including the connectors and all? I want to put in gyros at some point and space behind the panel becomes an issue. That panel looks really good. Bill N40WB ----- Original Message ----- From: IslPilot@aol.com To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:11 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel RJ: The Dynon is completely self contained except for the angle of attack sensor/heated pitot and the remote magnetic sensor which is optional and used only if you have too much magnetic interference. I thought I would probably need it with the tube construction of the Tailwind but they indicated that I could probably compensate it out and to try it first. Believe me its all there and readable and seems pretty rugged for $1995. I opted for the internal battery backup which gives you an additional 2 hours with a power loss. Everyone that comes in the shop has to play with it and the battery has not died in three months..yet. On the Lightspeed Plasma III you get the small digital display screen with the variable timing advance rheostat. It came prewired and now I have space so I figured no big deal, but you are correct in that it could have been wired through the EIS. Today I will get more involved with wiring the pin connectors for the Dynon and the EIS. Got distracted wet sanding my wings for the one man body shop close by. They are getting a Super Canary Yellow You Better Be Able to See Me Now Paint Job, after this summer where my buddies would not see me and scare me by turning in to me with the plane's pretty much all white paint job when I came up alongside them flying. Paul N557CL Charlevoix, MI --- Version: 6.0.594 / Virus Database: 377 - Release Date: 2/24/2004 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:47 AM PST US From: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Go to http://www.dynondevelopment.com/docs/efis-d10_dimensions.html for dimensions. ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl Luce To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Paul, How deep is the Dynon ? Will it fit in the panel at the point where the gas tank is behind it ? Earl Luce ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:01 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Paul, how much room does the Dynon unit take behind the panel, including the connectors and all? I want to put in gyros at some point and space behind the panel becomes an issue. That panel looks really good. Bill N40WB ----- Original Message ----- From: IslPilot@aol.com To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:11 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel RJ: The Dynon is completely self contained except for the angle of attack sensor/heated pitot and the remote magnetic sensor which is optional and used only if you have too much magnetic interference. I thought I would probably need it with the tube construction of the Tailwind but they indicated that I could probably compensate it out and to try it first. Believe me its all there and readable and seems pretty rugged for $1995. I opted for the internal battery backup which gives you an additional 2 hours with a power loss. Everyone that comes in the shop has to play with it and the battery has not died in three months..yet. On the Lightspeed Plasma III you get the small digital display screen with the variable timing advance rheostat. It came prewired and now I have space so I figured no big deal, but you are correct in that it could have been wired through the EIS. Today I will get more involved with wiring the pin connectors for the Dynon and the EIS. Got distracted wet sanding my wings for the one man body shop close by. They are getting a Super Canary Yellow You Better Be Able to See Me Now Paint Job, after this summer where my buddies would not see me and scare me by turning in to me with the plane's pretty much all white paint job when I came up alongside them flying. Paul N557CL Charlevoix, MI --- Version: 6.0.594 / Virus Database: 377 - Release Date: 2/24/2004 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:05 AM PST US From: "DaveM" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Well you know what they say about "fly the plane!" dave ----- Original Message ----- From: CarRxW10@aol.com To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:37 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Hey guys, I like this system, and would like to use one in my plane, but my concern is, what happens in a complete power failure? seems ALL is lost. one should have a redundent system somewhere. Alex ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:43 AM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" RJ.... Dynon works pretty good BUT you will be thrilled with the GRT EFIS! ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ" Subject: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ > > Paul, your instrument panel is very interesting. I > have a couple questions: > I find it difficult to believe the Dynon D-10 can > replace the attitude gyro, DG, VSI, airspeed, > altimeter, and T&B for under $2000. I went to the > Dynon website but could find no price. > I am leaning toward the EFIS from Grand Rapids > Technologies as it can be built up in stages. But, the > price of the air data computer, (and external > magnetometer), alone, (necessary to replace gyros), is > $5000. How does the Dynon D-10 get it's information? > Why didn't you do away with the Lightspeed engine > timing screen, and use one of the auxiliary inputs of > the FIS, the timing to appear on that screen? > Understand I'm not being critical, just jealous. :-0 > RJ > > __________________________________ > http://search.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:31 AM PST US From: George Turner Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel --> Tailwind-List message posted by: George Turner The EFIS-D10 connects to standard 12 or 28-volt electrical power and optionally contains a rechargeable emergency battery (available at an additional $129.00). --- DaveM wrote: > Well you know what they say about "fly the > plane!" > dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CarRxW10@aol.com > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:37 AM > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel > > > Hey guys, I like this system, and would like > to use one in my plane, but my concern is, what > happens in a complete power failure? seems ALL > is lost. one should have a redundent system > somewhere. > Alex __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:22 AM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb George Turner wrote: > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: George Turner > > The EFIS-D10 connects to standard 12 or 28-volt > electrical power and optionally contains a > rechargeable emergency battery (available at an > additional $129.00). > That's all well and good, George, but add an external gell cell back up battery for true redundancy. It's important in an all electric airplane. Run the avionics buss power through a DPDT switch to select main power or backup battery. (one pole for power, the other for a LARGE LED). The battery needs to be big enough to handle the desired electrical load for as long as the fuel supply lasts. What does all that stuff add up to for current draw? Also, I had a lead on a small 8 amp alternator that fits on the Lycomin' vacuum drive. Eight amps won't run the whole show,but it could be used to keep essential equipment alive long enough to get down. Richard ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:49 AM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Comm in a bag? --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb TW Listers... This came up in response to George's all electric airplane. (It's fabulous George, but way beyond my pay grade!) I think I'll post this to RAH, but wanted to give credit where due. Happy landings... Richard A unique solution for airplanes _without_ electrical systems After a couple of long cross countries in slow OLD airplanes, we've come up with a novel solution for handling hand held radios. Flying with a hand held can be a little more interesting that with built in radios. First, there is a lot more to a com system than just a hand held. Headsets are necessary. Intercom box, Noise canceling box!, lots of spaghetti wiring strung all over the cockpit... On a whim I bought a nice blue diaper bag at WallMart for $9.95. A 7 amp-hr gell cell goes in first. This battery will last for several days on a charge, depending on how much transmitting is done. Leo's is a 12 AH version that fits the bag width perfectly. Then a plastic snap-closed box that fits the bottom of the bag to lock the battery in place. A compact 3 outlet 12 volt socket was modified by cutting off the plug andinstalling terminals that fit the battery. The radio, GPS, and one something else can be plugged in at the same time. The radio goes in one of the two outside (bottle?) pockets for quick and easy access. (The system can be upgraded to dual comms by stuffing another hand held in the other pocket. ;) Small stuff goes in the bottom box. Misc cables, AA batteries for the radio and LED flash light (commonality), small battery charger, vom... The Press To Talk switch sounds like a Good Thing, and really is, but it's an inquisitive octopus that likes to crawl into everything. A couple of velcro straps to hold it in shape, the whole wirey mess stuffs into the baby bottle cozy and is completely contained. Just plug it in if you want it and push the little red button to talk. Note that EVERYTHING can pack into the diaper bag so that nothing goes adrift on long trips. Two sets of Lightspeed headsets, intercom, battery, gps, charts, flight plan, log books, etc. The big pocket on the back will hold several charts and still zip shut. But not with all the charts I have in there right now... I don't have one yet, but a plastic box with a power switch would be a nice improvement. Right now, I just unplug the battery. Life is good, flying is sweet, but I wonder about getting strandes somewhere and having to take a commercial airline ride home. Any guesses as to how airport security would react to my diaper bag? Richard ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:59 PM PST US From: "james wright" Subject: Tailwind-List: Re landing gear For the tail wheel I am useing Van's Aircraft Tail wheel assembly,under 2 hundred dollars. Note ,no bend in lower longeron, as far as i can tell that was for a flat spring setup. Note, small streamline tubeing on rudder trailing edge ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:26 PM PST US From: Kenneth Graves Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: TW landing gear The Titanium used by the Sonex is just a rod no machining. It has an axel that bolts on for the wheels. You drill two holes that's it. Neat stuff . All we need is some one to calculate what thickness rod we need. Where are are engineers? Ken red wrote: --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" Titanium sounds real good. Red ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Triplett" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: TW landing gear > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Bob Triplett > > > Under stand 6150 may not be possible. Has any one looked into the cost > of titanium. It is expensive but much lighter. It is being used on > some cessna replacements under and STC. It might be a better choice all > around??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:53 PM PST US From: Kenneth Graves Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Comm in a bag? When are they going to come up with a portable Mode C? Ken Richard Lamb wrote: --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb TW Listers... This came up in response to George's all electric airplane. (It's fabulous George, but way beyond my pay grade!) I think I'll post this to RAH, but wanted to give credit where due. Happy landings... Richard A unique solution for airplanes _without_ electrical systems After a couple of long cross countries in slow OLD airplanes, we've come up with a novel solution for handling hand held radios. Flying with a hand held can be a little more interesting that with built in radios. First, there is a lot more to a com system than just a hand held. Headsets are necessary. Intercom box, Noise canceling box!, lots of spaghetti wiring strung all over the cockpit... On a whim I bought a nice blue diaper bag at WallMart for $9.95. A 7 amp-hr gell cell goes in first. This battery will last for several days on a charge, depending on how much transmitting is done. Leo's is a 12 AH version that fits the bag width perfectly. Then a plastic snap-closed box that fits the bottom of the bag to lock the battery in place. A compact 3 outlet 12 volt socket was modified by cutting off the plug andinstalling terminals that fit the battery. The radio, GPS, and one something else can be plugged in at the same time. The radio goes in one of the two outside (bottle?) pockets for quick and easy access. (The system can be upgraded to dual comms by stuffing another hand held in the other pocket. ;) Small stuff goes in the bottom box. Misc cables, AA batteries for the radio and LED flash light (commonality), small battery charger, vom... The Press To Talk switch sounds like a Good Thing, and really is, but it's an inquisitive octopus that likes to crawl into everything. A couple of velcro straps to hold it in shape, the whole wirey mess stuffs into the baby bottle cozy and is completely contained. Just plug it in if you want it and push the little red button to talk. Note that EVERYTHING can pack into the diaper bag so that nothing goes adrift on long trips. Two sets of Lightspeed headsets, intercom, battery, gps, charts, flight plan, log books, etc. The big pocket on the back will hold several charts and still zip shut. But not with all the charts I have in there right now... I don't have one yet, but a plastic box with a power switch would be a nice improvement. Right now, I just unplug the battery. Life is good, flying is sweet, but I wonder about getting strandes somewhere and having to take a commercial airline ride home. Any guesses as to how airport security would react to my diaper bag? Richard --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:37 PM PST US From: IslPilot@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Bill: 8" from the back of the panel to the rear of the pitot/static lines on the Dynon. I can take a pic if you need it. Paul N557CL Charlevoix, MI ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:21 PM PST US From: IslPilot@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Alex, the Dynon is completely self contained and even has the 2 hour internal battery. I would not be concerned for VFR but put in the conventional A/S, T&B & Altimeter as backups for the IFR. Paul N557CL Charlevoix,MI ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:07 PM PST US From: IslPilot@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Earl: Just measured for Bill. 8" is good. I have mine 1/2 above the top of the fuel tank. You might be able to get away with 7.5" with tighter fittings than I used. Paul N557CL Charlevoix, MI ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:44 PM PST US From: "Hjelle" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: TW landing gear Titanium did not work when we tried it 35 years ago. Perhaps some dimensional changes would make it workable, but it was too springy built to plans. It never got past A fast taxi before the wheels looked like a two foot oblong blur ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:11 PM PST US From: CarRxW10@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: IFR Panel Paul, I guess my real concern was "what if" an internal component failed would you still have partial panel or would the whole thing just quit? I am guessing that it would probably depend on what failed. Still I think it is really neat and weight saving. I plan on flying VFR anyway, but you can sometimes get caught in some nasty stuff, increased "PUCKER FACTOR" If you know what I mean, and that is usually when things go awrey. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:53 PM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind Times Subscription From: Jerry Hey To all Tailwind Times subscribers: In order to reduce our work load, we are changing the way subscriptions come due. From now on all Tailwind Times subscriptions will be due on May 15, each year. For the majority of you this will coincide with your normal renewal. For those who have already paid past this date, your accounts will be credited accordingly and we will notify you of any additonal amount to bring your subscription up to the May 15th date next year. Keeping track of subscriptions, sending out reminders and so on, is no fun. Hopefully this will lighten the load. Regards, Jerry J-Wind Designs/Tailwind Times 3790 S. 600 W. Albion, Indiana 46701 260-799-4507