---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/10/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:09 AM - Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Rick and Cindy) 2. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Ruhnke, Mike) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Rick and Cindy) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Mcculleyja@aol.com) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Dave Conrad) 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Rick and Cindy) 7. 07:49 AM - Re: Felix Prop (Brian Alley) 8. 08:34 AM - Re: Felix Prop (Fred Weaver) 9. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Mcculleyja@aol.com) 10. 09:11 AM - Re: Felix Prop (Brian Alley) 11. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Rick and Cindy) 12. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Mcculleyja@aol.com) 13. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Phil Flaugher) 14. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting (Dave Conrad) 15. 08:08 PM - The fastest Tailwind (Rick and Cindy) 16. 09:25 PM - Re: The fastest Tailwind (red) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:27 AM PST US From: "Rick and Cindy" "Tailwind Discussion" , "EDWARD OADEN" Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Attn Edward Oaden: Thank you for your question. Your Tailwind is yours, not Jim Stanton's or Steve Wittman's. The clevis strut fitting is proven, use it if you like. I can assure you, after seeing the stub fitting on the original O-O, I'll never even consider using it. Rick N241 SW ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD OADEN To: rcaviate@infionline.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Fw: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD OADEN To: rcaviate@ne.infi.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting I'm really sorry that I ever asked about this on the Tailwind forum. I got a really nasty e-mail from Jim Stanton as if I should not call it a Tailwind if I use a strut fitting like yours. I am at the point where I think it will have to go on soon. Is this fitting not a good idea? Edward A. Oaden ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick and Cindy To: EDWARD OADEN Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:47 AM Subject: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Edward: The lower strut fitting is not one of Jim's mods, altho I did talk it over with him before I did it and we agreed it was a sound idea, he even said he might use it himself sometime. When you get ready, send me your address and I'll make a sketch of it. Rick N393RC EDWARD OADEN wrote: Since the discussion group is down I am trying to e-mailbuilders.I have the plans and most of the expensive parts for a W-10. I will start construction in one year when I retire. I noticed that the lower lift strut fitting on your aircraft is a clevis arangement on the bottom longeron vice the streamline tube as per plan.My question is where can I get details on this fitting? Is it part of the Clemits Mods ?Your project is looking good and I imagine it has flown by now.Regards,Edward A. Oaden ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting From: "Ruhnke, Mike" Curious... what did you see in the stub fitting on the O-O that made you never consider it? Mike NW Illinois -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Cindy Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Attn Edward Oaden: Thank you for your question. Your Tailwind is yours, not Jim Stanton's or Steve Wittman's. The clevis strut fitting is proven, use it if you like. I can assure you, after seeing the stub fitting on the original O-O, I'll never even consider using it. Rick N241 SW ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD OADEN Subject: Fw: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD OADEN Subject: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting I'm really sorry that I ever asked about this on the Tailwind forum. I got a really nasty e-mail from Jim Stanton as if I should not call it a Tailwind if I use a strut fitting like yours. I am at the point where I think it will have to go on soon. Is this fitting not a good idea? Edward A. Oaden ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick and Cindy Subject: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Edward: The lower strut fitting is not one of Jim's mods, altho I did talk it over with him before I did it and we agreed it was a sound idea, he even said he might use it himself sometime. When you get ready, send me your address and I'll make a sketch of it. Rick N393RC EDWARD OADEN wrote: Since the discussion group is down I am trying to e-mailbuilders.I have the plans and most of the expensive parts for a W-10. I will start construction in one year when I retire. I noticed that the lower lift strut fitting on your aircraft is a clevis arangement on the bottom longeron vice the streamline tube as per plan.My question is where can I get details on this fitting? Is it part of the Clemits Mods ?Your project is looking good and I imagine it has flown by now.Regards,Edward A. Oaden ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:14 AM PST US From: "Rick and Cindy" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting It was rusted on the inside. Rick N241SW ----- Original Message ----- From: Ruhnke, Mike To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Curious... what did you see in the stub fitting on the O-O that made you never consider it? Mike NW Illinois -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Cindy Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 7:09 AM To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com; Tailwind Discussion; EDWARD OADEN Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Attn Edward Oaden: Thank you for your question. Your Tailwind is yours, not Jim Stanton's or Steve Wittman's. The clevis strut fitting is proven, use it if you like. I can assure you, after seeing the stub fitting on the original O-O, I'll never even consider using it. Rick N241 SW ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD OADEN To: rcaviate@infionline.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Fw: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting ----- Original Message ----- From: EDWARD OADEN To: rcaviate@ne.infi.net Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting I'm really sorry that I ever asked about this on the Tailwind forum. I got a really nasty e-mail from Jim Stanton as if I should not call it a Tailwind if I use a strut fitting like yours. I am at the point where I think it will have to go on soon. Is this fitting not a good idea? Edward A. Oaden ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick and Cindy To: EDWARD OADEN Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:47 AM Subject: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Edward: The lower strut fitting is not one of Jim's mods, altho I did talk it over with him before I did it and we agreed it was a sound idea, he even said he might use it himself sometime. When you get ready, send me your address and I'll make a sketch of it. Rick N393RC EDWARD OADEN wrote: Since the discussion group is down I am trying to e-mailbuilders.I have the plans and most of the expensive parts for a W-10. I will start construction in one year when I retire. I noticed that the lower lift strut fitting on your aircraft is a clevis arangement on the bottom longeron vice the streamline tube as per plan.My question is where can I get details on this fitting? Is it part of the Clemits Mods ?Your project is looking good and I imagine it has flown by now.Regards,Edward A. Oaden ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:29 AM PST US From: Mcculleyja@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting In a message dated 3/10/04 8:36:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > It was rusted on the inside. > Rick, Are you referring to what you saw in the wreckage of the O&O that Steve died in? If so, what was the internal condition of the adjacent longeron tubing? If there was rust only in the stub could it have come from a less-than-airtight weld in the stub only? Can you describe the clevis alternative and why this would prevent the rust problem ? Sounds like a very critically important bit of data we all need to be aware of. Thanks. Jim McCulley ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting From: Dave Conrad I'm not totally sure of what you guys are talking about, can you post a picture? Thanks Dave Conrad On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 07:56 AM, Mcculleyja@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/10/04 8:36:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > > It was rusted on the inside. > > > Rick, > > Are you referring to what you saw in the wreckage of the O&O that > Steve died in?=A0 If so, what was the internal condition of the adjacent > longeron tubing?=A0 If there was rust only in the stub could it have > come from a less-than-airtight weld in the stub only?=A0 Can you > describe the clevis alternative and why this would prevent the rust > problem ? > Sounds like a very critically important bit of data we all need to be > aware of.=A0 Thanks. > > Jim McCulley > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:52 AM PST US From: "Rick and Cindy" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting Jim: A book could be written on this subject, which I don't really want to do. The O-O stub was of the next SMALLER size streamline tubing than the strut. Using a conservative number of 1/3 the yeild point of 4130 (75,000 psi/3 25,000 psi), each stub would have a design limit of 4808 lbs (equivalent round of 1 1/4" x pi x .049 x 25000). The O-O had a gross of 1850 lbs, and I'm sure this was exceeded every time he made the trip from O to O. 1850 x 1/2 x 6 (g)/ 25550 lbs. I do not consider a design safety factor of MINUS 742 lbs to be adequate. Also, the O-O stub was open to the atmosphere up inside the strut, as was the strut at that juncture. Not good. More than one OEM strut, even appearing to be adequately welded, has been found to have moisture and rust inside. Our mechanic recently flunked a Cub strut, forcing the p.o.'d owner to purchase a new one. The mechanic, to show the owner the extent of the problem, sawed the old strut apart and showed the thinning of the wall thickness to the now ashen faced owner. After that, he bought a strut for the other side. The clevis design, when, not if, it gets wet, will dry, and can be inspected, and even wire brushed and repainted if necessary. To expand on such matters, I will not reinforce the strut tube with a piece of wood driven inside. Wood always has moisture, matter of fact will absorb water like a sponge. My struts are doubled with a length of 7/8" x .049 tubing, secured with rosette welds at each end, two of which are under the reinforcing patch. These are personal choices that I made on my airplane, I have adequate engineering training to make such design changes, and adequate sense to seek out other engineering opinion when my knowledge is inadequate. I will not blindly trust any designer, even Steve Wittman, maybe especially Steve Wittman, as he was known to cut it pretty close. If I have any question, pencil gets put to paper and the numbers get crunched, and checked by somebody else, preferably an engineer who is not in this loop. If any builder has any question about any mod, for heaven's sake don't use it, it is YOUR OWN peace of mind at stake, you'll be the one that has ahold of the pointy end of the thing at 10,000 ft doing 190. Rick N241SW ----- Original Message ----- From: Mcculleyja@aol.com To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:56 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting In a message dated 3/10/04 8:36:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcaviate@infionline.net writes: It was rusted on the inside. Rick, Are you referring to what you saw in the wreckage of the O&O that Steve died in? If so, what was the internal condition of the adjacent longeron tubing? If there was rust only in the stub could it have come from a less-than-airtight weld in the stub only? Can you describe the clevis alternative and why this would prevent the rust problem ? Sounds like a very critically important bit of data we all need to be aware of. Thanks. Jim McCulley ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:05 AM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Felix Prop --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Brian Alley Red, Thanks for the reply, I put the prop on Ebaymotors under aviation parts. Minumim bid $500, reserve $675 or buy it now at $750. We'll see what happens! Here is the link in case you change you mind. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2465212726&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1 ===== BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:21 AM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Felix Prop --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" That thing isn't worth that much... It's too fat and doesn't turn up. Hoping for a sucker? hahahahahahaha..... Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Alley" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Felix Prop > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Brian Alley > > Red, Thanks for the reply, I put the prop on > Ebaymotors under aviation parts. Minumim bid $500, > reserve $675 or buy it now at $750. We'll see what > happens! Here is the link in case you change you mind. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2465212726&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1 > > ===== > BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) > CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES > > How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:03 AM PST US From: Mcculleyja@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com In a message dated 3/10/04 10:09:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > The clevis design, when, not if, it gets wet, will dry, and can be inspected, > and even wire brushed and repainted if necessary. > Rick, I certainly agree with your philosophy of design and taking responsibility for the adequacy of whatever we homebuilders do. Thanks for your explanation, but I hope you will be kind enough to also post a picture of the clevis arrangement for those of us struggling to visualize the concept. Considering the number of ancient Tailwinds still being flown, do you know if anyone has any knowledge of lift struts that have been tested non-destructively and/or cut open to check for internal rust and what has been found. Maybe all of us should be taking some positive action on this ? Your thoughts? Jim ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:11 AM PST US From: Brian Alley Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Felix Prop --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Brian Alley Are you talking about the RV comunity??? ===== BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:05 AM PST US From: "Rick and Cindy" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Rick and Cindy" Jim: I'll get some pics of O-O fitting and post. Rick N241SW ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/10/04 10:09:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > > > The clevis design, when, not if, it gets wet, will dry, and can be > inspected, > > and even wire brushed and repainted if necessary. > > > Rick, > > I certainly agree with your philosophy of design and taking responsibility > for the adequacy of whatever we homebuilders do. > > Thanks for your explanation, but I hope you will be kind enough to also post > a picture of the clevis arrangement for those of us struggling to visualize > the concept. Considering the number of ancient Tailwinds still being flown, do > you know if anyone has any knowledge of lift struts that have been tested > non-destructively and/or cut open to check for internal rust and what has been > found. Maybe all of us should be taking some positive action on this ? Your > thoughts? > > Jim > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:56 AM PST US From: Mcculleyja@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com In a message dated 3/10/04 12:13:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > Jim: I'll get some pics of O-O fitting and post. > Rick That would be great. Can you also post pics of your clevis design? That's the one I'm having trouble visualizing. Thanks, Rick. Jim ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:47 AM PST US From: "Phil Flaugher" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Phil Flaugher" Rick, I think he's asking for pictures of your arrangement...... Thank you for not accepting everything as done by anyone else, including my hero, Steve Wittman. His achievevments and contributions are proof of his genius but there is always room for improvement. NASA would have to say the same thing about our space shuttles. Your engineering analysis is invaluable. I appreciate Jim Stanton's attitude (I haven't seen the correspondence) but he must be livid about Jim Clements mods!?!? Are there any published analysis (spelling for plural??) for the W-10? Any published figures for G limits? Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/10/04 10:09:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > > > The clevis design, when, not if, it gets wet, will dry, and can be > inspected, > > and even wire brushed and repainted if necessary. > > > Rick, > > I certainly agree with your philosophy of design and taking responsibility > for the adequacy of whatever we homebuilders do. > > Thanks for your explanation, but I hope you will be kind enough to also post > a picture of the clevis arrangement for those of us struggling to visualize > the concept. Considering the number of ancient Tailwinds still being flown, do > you know if anyone has any knowledge of lift struts that have been tested > non-destructively and/or cut open to check for internal rust and what has been > found. Maybe all of us should be taking some positive action on this ? Your > thoughts? > > Jim > > ====== > ====== > ====== http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm > ====== > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting From: Dave Conrad Thank you Rick, Your point is very well made. Dave Conrad On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 09:08 AM, Rick and Cindy wrote: > Jim: A book could be written on this subject, which I don't really > want to do. The O-O stub was of the next SMALLER size streamline > tubing than the strut.=A0 > > Using=A0a conservative number of 1/3 the yeild point of 4130 (75,000 > psi/3 25,000 psi), each stub would have a design limit of 4808 lbs > (equivalent round of 1 1/4" x pi x .049 x 25000). The O-O had a gross > of 1850 lbs, and I'm sure this was exceeded every time he made the > trip from O to O. 1850 x 1/2 x 6 (g)/ 25550 lbs. I do not consider a > design safety factor of MINUS 742 lbs to be adequate. > Also, the O-O stub was open to the atmosphere up inside the strut, as > was the=A0strut at that juncture.=A0Not good. > > More than one OEM strut, even appearing to be adequately welded, has > been found to have moisture and rust inside. Our mechanic recently > flunked a Cub strut, forcing the p.o.'d owner to purchase a new one. > The mechanic, to show the owner the extent of the problem, sawed the > old strut apart and showed the thinning of the wall thickness to the > now ashen faced owner. After that, he bought a strut for the other > side. > > The=A0clevis design, when, not if, it gets wet, will dry, and can be > inspected, and even wire brushed and repainted if necessary. > > To expand on such matters, I=A0will not=A0reinforce the strut tube with a > piece of wood driven inside. Wood always has moisture, matter of fact > will absorb water like a sponge. My struts are doubled with a length > of 7/8" x .049 tubing, secured with rosette welds at each end, two of > which are under the reinforcing patch. > > These are personal choices that I made on my airplane, I have adequate > engineering training to make such design changes, and adequate sense > to seek out other engineering opinion when my knowledge is inadequate. > I will not blindly trust any designer, even Steve Wittman, maybe > especially=A0Steve=A0Wittman, as he was=A0known to cut it pretty close.=A0If I > have any question, pencil gets put to paper and the numbers get > crunched, and checked by somebody else, preferably an engineer who is > not in this loop. > > If any builder has any question about any mod, for heaven's sake don't > use it, it is YOUR OWN peace of mind at stake, you'll be the one that > has ahold of the pointy end of the thing at 10,000 ft doing 190. > Rick > N241SW > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mcculleyja@aol.com > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:56 AM > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Lift Strut Clevis Fitting > > In a message dated 3/10/04 8:36:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rcaviate@infionline.net writes: > > It was rusted on the inside. > > > Rick, > > Are you referring to what you saw in the wreckage of the O&O that > Steve died in?=A0 If so, what was the internal condition of the adjacent > longeron tubing?=A0 If there was rust only in the stub could it have > come from a less-than-airtight weld in the stub only?=A0 Can you > describe the clevis alternative and why this would prevent the rust > problem ? > Sounds like a very critically important bit of data we all need to be > aware of.=A0 Thanks. > > Jim McCulley > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:06 PM PST US From: "Rick and Cindy" "Tailwind Discussion" Subject: Tailwind-List: The fastest Tailwind I've been trying not to discuss this with the group, but I just can't stand it anymore. Clement will probably tell me I must stop having these bad nightmares. Been thinkin' about a fast Tailwind. I don't mean 200 or 250, I mean over 350 mph. The airplane will be a modified Tailwind with some features of the O-O, and some that haven't been seen before on a Tailwind. The powerplant would need to be an aluminum small block Chevy of 400 or so cubes and 400 or so hp with a Geschwender redrive, or a large Lycoming or Continental. Kind of leanin' toward the Chevy, as lots of hp can be had relatively inexpensively. The prop could be a three blade, maybe off a Cessna 421, a large 4 blade would be even better, if the Chevy/redrive were used, it would probably have to be an electric. The prop would have to be big, hence the O-O gear, which is easier to set up higher than the round rod. The fuselage would be narrowed slightly, the pilot would be moved back a bay for CG, and it would be single place. Instruments and radios would be minimal, fuel tank need not be huge, and could be moved to the rear a couple of feet. This airplane would exist for one reason: To win the Sport Class at Reno. Why? Number one, 'cause there should be a Wittman airplane in any race. Two, 'cause I was readin' the rules, not much to it, except entries are limited to production kits of 5 or more flying, EXCEPT! for Long-Ezes. This really pissed me off!! The very idea, an exception for a backwards plastic airplane, and the very fast Wittman Tailwind excluded. So, here's the plan. I'm not going to say a word about it until I get O-O to OSH going about 250 or so, then I'm going to shame them into letting us enter a Wittman design!! My engineer and mechanic buddies already have the thing takin' the checkered!! Somehow, it's just gotta be done. Wouldn't it just be down right nasty great to clean those Lancair's clocks, even with our little gears hangin' out in the breeze?! Rick N241SW ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:48 PM PST US From: "red" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The fastest Tailwind Way to go Rick. Can I be on your pit crew? Red ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick and Cindy To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com ; Tailwind Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:07 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: The fastest Tailwind I've been trying not to discuss this with the group, but I just can't stand it anymore. Clement will probably tell me I must stop having these bad nightmares. Been thinkin' about a fast Tailwind. I don't mean 200 or 250, I mean over 350 mph. The airplane will be a modified Tailwind with some features of the O-O, and some that haven't been seen before on a Tailwind. The powerplant would need to be an aluminum small block Chevy of 400 or so cubes and 400 or so hp with a Geschwender redrive, or a large Lycoming or Continental. Kind of leanin' toward the Chevy, as lots of hp can be had relatively inexpensively. The prop could be a three blade, maybe off a Cessna 421, a large 4 blade would be even better, if the Chevy/redrive were used, it would probably have to be an electric. The prop would have to be big, hence the O-O gear, which is easier to set up higher than the round rod. The fuselage would be narrowed slightly, the pilot would be moved back a bay for CG, and it would be single place. Instruments and radios would be minimal, fuel tank need not be huge, and could be moved to the rear a couple of feet. This airplane would exist for one reason: To win the Sport Class at Reno. Why? Number one, 'cause there should be a Wittman airplane in any race. Two, 'cause I was readin' the rules, not much to it, except entries are limited to production kits of 5 or more flying, EXCEPT! for Long-Ezes. This really pissed me off!! The very idea, an exception for a backwards plastic airplane, and the very fast Wittman Tailwind excluded. So, here's the plan. I'm not going to say a word about it until I get O-O to OSH going about 250 or so, then I'm going to shame them into letting us enter a Wittman design!! My engineer and mechanic buddies already have the thing takin' the checkered!! Somehow, it's just gotta be done. Wouldn't it just be down right nasty great to clean those Lancair's clocks, even with our little gears hangin' out in the breeze?! Rick N241SW