---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/28/04: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:28 AM - Re: Brake Master Cylinders (William Bernard) 2. 04:34 AM - Re: Brake Master Cylinders (William Bernard) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Brake Master Cylinders (Cy Galley) 4. 06:37 AM - Clipped wings (Jerry Hey) 5. 08:20 AM - Single seat tailwind (Jerry Hey) 6. 09:44 AM - Re: Single seat tailwind (Jim and Donna Clement) 7. 09:57 AM - Re: Clipped wings (Jim and Donna Clement) 8. 10:12 AM - Re: Single seat tailwind (Jerry Hey) 9. 10:21 AM - Re: Clipped wings (Jerry Hey) 10. 10:22 AM - Re: Single seat tailwind (Jim and Donna Clement) 11. 10:27 AM - Re: Clipped wings (Jim and Donna Clement) 12. 02:59 PM - Gas Cap-tank (Paul Holmes) 13. 03:11 PM - Re: Gas Cap-tank (Jerry Hey) 14. 03:32 PM - gas cap (Paul Holmes) 15. 07:08 PM - Re: [TailwindForum] trim (flamini2) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:13 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Thanks Jim. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim and Donna Clement To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:35 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Bill, use the Matco's and lower the arm on the pedal. Been using them in most all my TWs with no problems. The others at Baraboo use them also. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:30 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Without going into the gorey details, it appears advisable that I replace the brake master cylinders. The present ones are Cleveland 10-55s and are old enough to vote. I'm thinking about replacing them with Matco MT-MC4 cylinders but... 1) Has anyone used these master cylinders with Cleveland brakes? If so how have they held up in service? 2) Since the Matco master cylinders are shorter than the Clevelands they would replace, I have to modify the brake pedals to lower the arm a bit, probably about 3/4 inch. The arm is already at the mid point of the brake pedal vertical tube. I suspect that lowering it a bit more will be to the good, but I'd like another opinion before I cut things up. Thanks for the ideas Bill (Fixin' stuff after I thought I was done!) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:14 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Cy, I tried that. I replaced the O-rings and they held fluid for about 2 days of sitting in the hangar. Then the left one started leaking again. When I inspected in again after dissasembly, I found that the plating was coming off the shaft, right where the top O-ring went. I haven't disassembled the right cylinder yet, but I suspect the same problem. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Why not just rebuilt them? The only thing that wears are the o-rings. There is a small one in the bottom of the piston. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:30 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Without going into the gorey details, it appears advisable that I replace the brake master cylinders. The present ones are Cleveland 10-55s and are old enough to vote. I'm thinking about replacing them with Matco MT-MC4 cylinders but... 1) Has anyone used these master cylinders with Cleveland brakes? If so how have they held up in service? 2) Since the Matco master cylinders are shorter than the Clevelands they would replace, I have to modify the brake pedals to lower the arm a bit, probably about 3/4 inch. The arm is already at the mid point of the brake pedal vertical tube. I suspect that lowering it a bit more will be to the good, but I'd like another opinion before I cut things up. Thanks for the ideas Bill (Fixin' stuff after I thought I was done!) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:23 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Do you have them mounted so the shaft comes out the top? ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Cy, I tried that. I replaced the O-rings and they held fluid for about 2 days of sitting in the hangar. Then the left one started leaking again. When I inspected in again after dissasembly, I found that the plating was coming off the shaft, right where the top O-ring went. I haven't disassembled the right cylinder yet, but I suspect the same problem. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Why not just rebuilt them? The only thing that wears are the o-rings. There is a small one in the bottom of the piston. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:30 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Without going into the gorey details, it appears advisable that I replace the brake master cylinders. The present ones are Cleveland 10-55s and are old enough to vote. I'm thinking about replacing them with Matco MT-MC4 cylinders but... 1) Has anyone used these master cylinders with Cleveland brakes? If so how have they held up in service? 2) Since the Matco master cylinders are shorter than the Clevelands they would replace, I have to modify the brake pedals to lower the arm a bit, probably about 3/4 inch. The arm is already at the mid point of the brake pedal vertical tube. I suspect that lowering it a bit more will be to the good, but I'd like another opinion before I cut things up. Thanks for the ideas Bill (Fixin' stuff after I thought I was done!) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:41 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings From: Jerry Hey --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey Jim , I know that the CAFE plane had a shortened wing span but I can't recall by how much. Did you eliminate any ribs? What was the effect on the landing speed? I do remember that the performance at altitude was not as good as the stock wing. If a TW were built expressly for the purpose of competing in Races such as Sun n Fun, would the clipped wing be a good idea. What about the plans tail feathers? Thanks, Jerry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:53 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind From: Jerry Hey I thought about this for a couple of days and yesterday I dragged the project out of storage and went to work. First I relocated one seat to the center line, then chopped off the pilot's stick extension , relocated the flap handle and cut out the passenger's rudder pedals. All came out a lot quicker than it went in. I think it is going to be kinda neat. Reflection from a halogen light makes the project look rusty but it is not. Jerry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:02 AM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Jerry, why cut up a perfectly good TW Project. You will end up with more work than starting over. Sell it to someone that wants a TW. Build a RV, then you can sit in the center and put your cooler and other junk in the backseat where you can't reach it while flying. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Subject: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind > I thought about this for a couple of days and yesterday I dragged the > project out of storage and went to work. First I relocated one seat to > the center line, then chopped off the pilot's stick extension , > relocated the flap handle and cut out the passenger's rudder pedals. > All came out a lot quicker than it went in. I think it is going to be > kinda neat. Reflection from a halogen light makes the project look > rusty but it is not. Jerry > ---- > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:39 AM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> The CAFE T/W had 23' wings vs.. 24' for a stock W10. Pattern speeds were maybe 3 mph faster. It would still fly fairly flat at 15,500' and climb 500 fpm loaded over gross at that altitude. Racing the short wing would only hurt on a short course like Reno where you are in a turn most of the time. Never messed with the tail feathers, maybe improvement could be made using carbon fiber skins. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Subject: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey > > Jim , I know that the CAFE plane had a shortened wing span but I can't > recall by how much. Did you eliminate any ribs? What was the effect > on the landing speed? I do remember that the performance at > altitude was not as good as the stock wing. If a TW were built > expressly for the purpose of competing in Races such as Sun n Fun, > would the clipped wing be a good idea. What about the plans tail > feathers? > > Thanks, Jerry > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind From: Jerry Hey --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey It is still a Tailwind even though it has only one seat. Amazing how different the feel is when sitting in the center with a ton of leg room. I really like it. As far as the work is concerned there is nothing to it. The relocated seat, flap handle and rudder pedals are already tacked in place. Just took a few hours. RV? Hahahaha. If I ever get this rocket finished then I will be hunting for RVs. Jerry On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Jim and Donna Clement wrote: > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" > <168x@merr.com> > > Jerry, why cut up a perfectly good TW Project. You will end up with > more > work than starting over. Sell it to someone that wants a TW. Build a > RV, > then you can sit in the center and put your cooler and other junk in > the > backseat where you can't reach it while flying. Jim C > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Hey" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:19 AM > Subject: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind > > >> I thought about this for a couple of days and yesterday I dragged the >> project out of storage and went to work. First I relocated one seat >> to >> the center line, then chopped off the pilot's stick extension , >> relocated the flap handle and cut out the passenger's rudder pedals. >> All came out a lot quicker than it went in. I think it is going to >> be >> kinda neat. Reflection from a halogen light makes the project >> look >> rusty but it is not. Jerry >> > > > ----- > ---- > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > > _- > ======================================================================= > > _- > ======================================================================= > > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings From: Jerry Hey --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey Thanks, I have no intention of pylon racing the Tailwind but the longer out and back races such as Sun N Fun are a temptation. I think the TW might kick butt against the RVs, EZs, Mustang IIs. It would be fun to try. Jerry On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Jim and Donna Clement wrote: > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" > <168x@merr.com> > > The CAFE T/W had 23' wings vs.. 24' for a stock W10. Pattern speeds > were > maybe 3 mph faster. It would still fly fairly flat at 15,500' and > climb 500 > fpm loaded over gross at that altitude. Racing the short wing would > only > hurt on a short course like Reno where you are in a turn most of the > time. > Never messed with the tail feathers, maybe improvement could be made > using > carbon fiber skins. Jim C > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Hey" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:36 AM > Subject: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings > > >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey >> >> >> Jim , I know that the CAFE plane had a shortened wing span but I can't >> recall by how much. Did you eliminate any ribs? What was the effect >> on the landing speed? I do remember that the performance at >> altitude was not as good as the stock wing. If a TW were built >> expressly for the purpose of competing in Races such as Sun n Fun, >> would the clipped wing be a good idea. What about the plans tail >> feathers? >> >> Thanks, Jerry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > > _- > ======================================================================= > > _- > ======================================================================= > > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:40 AM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> When George Turner sees this, he will want one. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey > > It is still a Tailwind even though it has only one seat. Amazing how > different the feel is when sitting in the center with a ton of leg > room. I really like it. As far as the work is concerned there is > nothing to it. The relocated seat, flap handle and rudder pedals are > already tacked in place. Just took a few hours. RV? Hahahaha. If I > ever get this rocket finished then I will be hunting for RVs. Jerry > > > On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Jim and Donna Clement wrote: > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" > > <168x@merr.com> > > > > Jerry, why cut up a perfectly good TW Project. You will end up with > > more > > work than starting over. Sell it to someone that wants a TW. Build a > > RV, > > then you can sit in the center and put your cooler and other junk in > > the > > backseat where you can't reach it while flying. Jim C > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Hey" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:19 AM > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind > > > > > >> I thought about this for a couple of days and yesterday I dragged the > >> project out of storage and went to work. First I relocated one seat > >> to > >> the center line, then chopped off the pilot's stick extension , > >> relocated the flap handle and cut out the passenger's rudder pedals. > >> All came out a lot quicker than it went in. I think it is going to > >> be > >> kinda neat. Reflection from a halogen light makes the project > >> look > >> rusty but it is not. Jerry > >> > > > > > > ----- > > ---- > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:34 AM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Make sure you check the rules so you get in a class you will be competitive. Also if they don't like you, who knows who you will be racing against. Worse than NASCAR. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey > > Thanks, I have no intention of pylon racing the Tailwind but the > longer out and back races such as Sun N Fun are a temptation. I think > the TW might kick butt against the RVs, EZs, Mustang IIs. It would be > fun to try. Jerry > > > On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 12:57 PM, Jim and Donna Clement wrote: > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" > > <168x@merr.com> > > > > The CAFE T/W had 23' wings vs.. 24' for a stock W10. Pattern speeds > > were > > maybe 3 mph faster. It would still fly fairly flat at 15,500' and > > climb 500 > > fpm loaded over gross at that altitude. Racing the short wing would > > only > > hurt on a short course like Reno where you are in a turn most of the > > time. > > Never messed with the tail feathers, maybe improvement could be made > > using > > carbon fiber skins. Jim C > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Hey" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:36 AM > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Clipped wings > > > > > >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey > >> > >> > >> Jim , I know that the CAFE plane had a shortened wing span but I can't > >> recall by how much. Did you eliminate any ribs? What was the effect > >> on the landing speed? I do remember that the performance at > >> altitude was not as good as the stock wing. If a TW were built > >> expressly for the purpose of competing in Races such as Sun n Fun, > >> would the clipped wing be a good idea. What about the plans tail > >> feathers? > >> > >> Thanks, Jerry > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:08 PM PST US From: "Paul Holmes" Subject: Tailwind-List: Gas Cap-tank Now that i've got the solution to the vent problem how about the connection between the tank and gas cap. Paul pholmes@wmis.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Gas Cap-tank From: Jerry Hey Paul, Issue #5 of the TT has a nice article on this complete with clear drawings. Jerry On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 05:58 PM, Paul Holmes wrote: > Now that i've got the solution to the vent problem how about the > connection between the tank and gas cap. > Paul > pholmes@wmis.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:30 PM PST US From: "Paul Holmes" Subject: Tailwind-List: gas cap Jerry, I just ordered TTs 5 thru 10 last week! Paul pholmes@wmis.net ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:15 PM PST US From: "flamini2" Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: [TailwindForum] trim i have a control story that happened right in front of me as my Son and i were taxing out behind a Stinson that had just been recovered and was on the test hop with the Owner and Mechanic on board. For some reason they decided to take off on the runway i was back-taxing on. As they lifted off the Stinson rolled left and the wing hit the runway and it cartwheeled and flipped over. We were the first ones at the accident site but they had exited the Stinson before we stopped. The Stinson was totaled but no one was hurt. Turns out Stinson aileron cables are right next to each other at the splice point in the wing and are the same length and this was not the first to be hooked up backward and one even took off and made it back!! How many of us could fly the pattern with controls hooked up backward? Dennis in Chicago, TW still in Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Conrad To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] trim The rest of the Hoover story is as follows. He wanted to save the plane so he flew it with trim only to Edwards. The people over seeing his flight wanted him to eject but he stayed with the plane and landed safely. Upon landing they noted that (If I have the details right) The canopy eject system was unarmed but the seat was armed, so if he would have ejected he would have blown himself into the canopy being killed. It wasn't his day to die! I heard that story twice, once from him at EAA. Dave Conrad On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 08:39 PM, jrs14855 wrote: Interesting that out of seven or eight elevator torque tube failures on W8's, as far as I know no one ever got hurt. One occurred at low level (below the trees) following the river south of Rockford, IL. This one did not break all the way. Doesn't always work out well- an unsafetied bolt in the elevator killed Bill Stead-the originator of the Reno Air Races. The airplane was the formula one Deerfly. The Airbus/Iraq incident is written up in Aviaiton week-about 5-6 weeks ago. The entire trailing edge of one wing is gone including some of the rear spar. The trailing edge of the wing was on fire from the time the missile hit until landing. Many years ago Jack Cox did a multi part article on Bob hoover in Sport Aviation. Hoover had a pitch control failure on takeoff at Los Angeles. The airplane pitched straight up until it ran out of speed and then came straight down. Using trim, flaps etc he got it under control and went to Edwards and landed. The Tailwind Forum group site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum . To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum/ . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TailwindForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com