---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/29/04: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Brake Master Cylinders (William Bernard) 2. 04:35 AM - Re: Single seat tailwind (William Bernard) 3. 05:09 AM - Re: Single seat tailwind (Jerry Hey) 4. 06:53 AM - EAA and Steve (Cy Galley) 5. 08:33 AM - Re: EAA and Steve (Estelle Danner) 6. 08:46 AM - Re: EAA and Steve (Rich Ellis) 7. 12:31 PM - Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Bruce E. Butts) 8. 01:01 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Ruhnke, Mike) 9. 01:02 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Ruhnke, Mike) 10. 01:12 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Graham Mitchell) 11. 01:59 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Fred Weaver) 12. 02:00 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Fred Weaver) 13. 03:15 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Jerry Hey) 14. 03:45 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Tom Cummings) 15. 04:10 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (Jim and Donna Clement) 16. 04:18 PM - Re: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] (tailwind614) 17. 05:43 PM - Welding/Brazing (JB Selk) 18. 05:56 PM - Re: Welding/Brazing (Jim and Donna Clement) 19. 06:16 PM - Re: Welding/Brazing (Richard Lamb) 20. 06:53 PM - Re: Welding/Brazing (Rick and Cindy) 21. 07:29 PM - Re: Welding/Brazing (George Turner) 22. 08:42 PM - Re: EAA and Steve (red) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:00 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Yes, the cylinders are mounted verticaly. The wear was inside, where one of the O-rings was. You could see the imprint of the O-ring on the bare shaft. The consensus of everybody was that it would be easier to replace, rather than try to repair. The shaft would need to be replaced and finding parts would be time consuming. (I AM trying to get the airplane flying.) Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:28 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Do you have them mounted so the shaft comes out the top? ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Cy, I tried that. I replaced the O-rings and they held fluid for about 2 days of sitting in the hangar. Then the left one started leaking again. When I inspected in again after dissasembly, I found that the plating was coming off the shaft, right where the top O-ring went. I haven't disassembled the right cylinder yet, but I suspect the same problem. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Why not just rebuilt them? The only thing that wears are the o-rings. There is a small one in the bottom of the piston. ----- Original Message ----- From: William Bernard To: tailwind-list@matronics.com ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:30 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Brake Master Cylinders Without going into the gorey details, it appears advisable that I replace the brake master cylinders. The present ones are Cleveland 10-55s and are old enough to vote. I'm thinking about replacing them with Matco MT-MC4 cylinders but... 1) Has anyone used these master cylinders with Cleveland brakes? If so how have they held up in service? 2) Since the Matco master cylinders are shorter than the Clevelands they would replace, I have to modify the brake pedals to lower the arm a bit, probably about 3/4 inch. The arm is already at the mid point of the brake pedal vertical tube. I suspect that lowering it a bit more will be to the good, but I'd like another opinion before I cut things up. Thanks for the ideas Bill (Fixin' stuff after I thought I was done!) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:21 AM PST US From: "William Bernard" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" Jerry, from where the flap handle is located, I presume you will fly with your left hand on the stick? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hey" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey > > It is still a Tailwind even though it has only one seat. Amazing how > different the feel is when sitting in the center with a ton of leg > room. I really like it. As far as the work is concerned there is > nothing to it. The relocated seat, flap handle and rudder pedals are > already tacked in place. Just took a few hours. RV? Hahahaha. If I > ever get this rocket finished then I will be hunting for RVs. Jerry > > > On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Jim and Donna Clement wrote: > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" > > <168x@merr.com> > > > > Jerry, why cut up a perfectly good TW Project. You will end up with > > more > > work than starting over. Sell it to someone that wants a TW. Build a > > RV, > > then you can sit in the center and put your cooler and other junk in > > the > > backseat where you can't reach it while flying. Jim C > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Hey" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:19 AM > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind > > > > > >> I thought about this for a couple of days and yesterday I dragged the > >> project out of storage and went to work. First I relocated one seat > >> to > >> the center line, then chopped off the pilot's stick extension , > >> relocated the flap handle and cut out the passenger's rudder pedals. > >> All came out a lot quicker than it went in. I think it is going to > >> be > >> kinda neat. Reflection from a halogen light makes the project > >> look > >> rusty but it is not. Jerry > >> > > > > > > ----- > > ---- > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Single seat tailwind From: Jerry Hey --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 07:39 AM, William Bernard wrote: > > Jerry, from where the flap handle is located, I presume you will fly > with > your left hand on the stick? > > Bill Bill, Either way is fine with me. Since I learned in Luscombes and am now flying a W-8, left hand on the stick, right hand on the throttle is first choice. However, I have taken dual in a number of aerobatic aircraft that were the other way around and it did not seem to matter. I had not thought about this before you brought it up. Throttle location will depend on the rotary intake set up. Peripheral Ports have the throttle body down low on the left side, while all other intake plans have the throttle body on the right side of the engine. I am still leaning toward the P Ports so that would put the throttle in my left had. All this is subject to change. Jerry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:48 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" "Tailwind-List@Matronics.Com" Subject: Tailwind-List: EAA and Steve --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Remembering Steve Wittman EAA Airventure Museum Celebrates His 100th Birthday The EAA AirVenture Museum is celebrating the 100th birth anniversary of the late Steve Wittman (right), one of Oshkosh's and Wisconsin's most famous aviators, with special activities April 3-5. Activities include guided tours of EAA's Wittman Hangar, located at the museum's Pioneer Airport, as well as a special "Memories of Steve" evening program at 7 p.m. on Monday, April 5, that will include comments from many of Wittman's close friends who he knew through his years as a renowned aircraft designer, builder and racer. "There are very few people who can claim the legacy that Steve Wittman established in so many fields of aviation," said Adam Smith, EAA AirVenture Museum Director. "He was a lifelong resident of the Fox Valley and we are proud that Oshkosh can claim him as its own. As part of EAA's mission to preserve aviation history, we will celebrate Steve's life and contributions, since his dedication to the world of flight helped make Oshkosh the home of sport aviation." Wittman was born on April 5, 1904, in Byron (WI), just a short distance south of Oshkosh. He began designing and building airplanes in the 1920s, and was soon racing his creations successfully against the top pilots of the famed "Golden Age of Air Racing" era of the 1920s and 1930s. He operated as an independent racer against the nation's best competitors, who were usually financed by large corporations. Wittman's contributions reached far beyond racing, however, though he continued competing well into his 80s. His aircraft designs, such as the Wittman Tailwind, Buttercup and others, are still being constructed today, while his spring-steel landing gear design was adopted by Cessna and eventually used in thousands of small airplanes. As a flight instructor, Wittman trained hundreds of military pilots during the World War II era and countless more throughout his 70-plus years of flying. An early member and supporter of the fledgling Experimental Aircraft Association, Wittman helped nurture the organization as an aircraft builder and as manager of the Winnebago County Airport. When EAA sought a new home for its annual fly-in in 1970, Wittman encouraged the organization to come to Oshkosh, where it remains today. The EAA fly-in, known today as EAA AirVenture, has become the world's largest general aviation event and is still at the Oshkosh airport, which now bears the Wittman Regional Airport name. A State of Wisconsin historical marker now notes the location of Wittman's hangar on the north side of the airport. During the April 3-5 events, the Wittman Hangar will showcase several of his designs, from his first "Hardly Ableson" model that used a surplus Harley-Davidson engine, to his racing and pleasure aircraft. During the April 5 evening program, Wittman biographer Aaron King and EAA founder Paul Poberezny will be among those who offer recollections of the famed aviator. FMI: www.eaa.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:04 AM PST US From: "Estelle Danner" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: EAA and Steve --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Estelle Danner" I will be there Bob Danner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Tailwind-List: EAA and Steve > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > Remembering Steve Wittman > EAA Airventure Museum Celebrates His 100th Birthday > > The EAA AirVenture Museum is > celebrating the 100th birth anniversary of the late Steve Wittman > (right), one of Oshkosh's and Wisconsin's most famous > aviators, with special activities April 3-5. > > Activities include guided tours of EAA's Wittman Hangar, > located at the museum's Pioneer Airport, as well as a special > "Memories of Steve" evening program at 7 p.m. on Monday, April 5, > that will include comments from many of Wittman's close > friends who he knew through his years as a renowned aircraft > designer, builder and racer. > > "There are very few people who can claim the legacy that Steve > Wittman established in so many fields of aviation," said Adam > Smith, EAA AirVenture Museum Director. "He was a lifelong resident > of the Fox Valley and we are proud that Oshkosh can claim him as > its own. As part of EAA's mission to preserve aviation > history, we will celebrate Steve's life and contributions, > since his dedication to the world of flight helped make Oshkosh the > home of sport aviation." > > Wittman was born on April 5, 1904, in Byron (WI), just a short > distance south of Oshkosh. He began designing and building > airplanes in the 1920s, and was soon racing his creations > successfully against the top pilots of the famed "Golden Age of Air > Racing" era of the 1920s and 1930s. He operated as an independent > racer against the nation's best competitors, who were usually > financed by large corporations. > > Wittman's contributions reached far beyond racing, > however, though he continued competing well into his 80s. His > aircraft designs, such as the Wittman Tailwind, Buttercup and > others, are still being constructed today, while his spring-steel > landing gear design was adopted by Cessna and eventually used in > thousands of small airplanes. As a flight instructor, Wittman > trained hundreds of military pilots during the World War II era and > countless more throughout his 70-plus years of flying. > > An early member and supporter of the > fledgling Experimental Aircraft Association, Wittman helped nurture > the organization as an aircraft builder and as manager of the > Winnebago County Airport. When EAA sought a new home for its annual > fly-in in 1970, Wittman encouraged the organization to come to > Oshkosh, where it remains today. The EAA fly-in, known today as EAA > AirVenture, has become the world's largest general aviation > event and is still at the Oshkosh airport, which now bears the > Wittman Regional Airport name. A State of Wisconsin historical > marker now notes the location of Wittman's hangar on the > north side of the airport. > > During the April 3-5 events, the Wittman Hangar will showcase > several of his designs, from his first "Hardly Ableson" model that > used a surplus Harley-Davidson engine, to his racing and pleasure > aircraft. During the April 5 evening program, Wittman biographer > Aaron King and EAA founder Paul Poberezny will be among those who > offer recollections of the famed aviator. > FMI: www.eaa.org > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:01 AM PST US From: Rich Ellis Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: EAA and Steve --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis Cy and others, For those of us who will not be able to attend the Wittman Celebration at Oshkosh, I hope someone attending will be able to capture a few photos and write a short review for the Tailwind Forum. rle --- Cy Galley wrote: > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > Remembering Steve Wittman > EAA Airventure Museum Celebrates His 100th Birthday > > The EAA AirVenture Museum is > celebrating the 100th birth anniversary of the late > Steve Wittman > (right), one of Oshkosh's and Wisconsin's most > famous > aviators, with special activities April 3-5. > > Activities include guided tours of EAA's Wittman > Hangar, > located at the museum's Pioneer Airport, as well as > a special > "Memories of Steve" evening program at 7 p.m. on > Monday, April 5, > that will include comments from many of Wittman's > close > friends who he knew through his years as a renowned > aircraft > designer, builder and racer. > > "There are very few people who can claim the legacy > that Steve > Wittman established in so many fields of aviation," > said Adam > Smith, EAA AirVenture Museum Director. "He was a > lifelong resident > of the Fox Valley and we are proud that Oshkosh can > claim him as > its own. As part of EAA's mission to preserve > aviation > history, we will celebrate Steve's life and > contributions, > since his dedication to the world of flight helped > make Oshkosh the > home of sport aviation." > > Wittman was born on April 5, 1904, in Byron (WI), > just a short > distance south of Oshkosh. He began designing and > building > airplanes in the 1920s, and was soon racing his > creations > successfully against the top pilots of the famed > "Golden Age of Air > Racing" era of the 1920s and 1930s. He operated as > an independent > racer against the nation's best competitors, who > were usually > financed by large corporations. > > Wittman's contributions reached far beyond racing, > however, though he continued competing well into his > 80s. His > aircraft designs, such as the Wittman Tailwind, > Buttercup and > others, are still being constructed today, while his > spring-steel > landing gear design was adopted by Cessna and > eventually used in > thousands of small airplanes. As a flight > instructor, Wittman > trained hundreds of military pilots during the World > War II era and > countless more throughout his 70-plus years of > flying. > > An early member and supporter of the > fledgling Experimental Aircraft Association, Wittman > helped nurture > the organization as an aircraft builder and as > manager of the > Winnebago County Airport. When EAA sought a new home > for its annual > fly-in in 1970, Wittman encouraged the organization > to come to > Oshkosh, where it remains today. The EAA fly-in, > known today as EAA > AirVenture, has become the world's largest general > aviation > event and is still at the Oshkosh airport, which now > bears the > Wittman Regional Airport name. A State of Wisconsin > historical > marker now notes the location of Wittman's hangar on > the > north side of the airport. > > During the April 3-5 events, the Wittman Hangar will > showcase > several of his designs, from his first "Hardly > Ableson" model that > used a surplus Harley-Davidson engine, to his racing > and pleasure > aircraft. During the April 5 evening program, > Wittman biographer > Aaron King and EAA founder Paul Poberezny will be > among those who > offer recollections of the famed aviator. > FMI: www.eaa.org > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Richard L. Ellis, M.D. Gundersen Lutheran Health System Co-Director Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care 1900 South Avenue La Crosse, WI 54601 800.362.9567, ext. 52102 rjrellis@yahoo.com __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:09 PM PST US From: "Bruce E. Butts" Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2469739716&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:01:58 PM PST US Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] From: "Ruhnke, Mike" Its a deal at the Buy it Now price. My tubing cost me $1,800. My wheels were another $1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item2469739716&sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:38 PM PST US Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] From: "Ruhnke, Mike" Oh, I forgot another $450 for landing gear... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item2469739716&sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:39 PM PST US From: Graham Mitchell Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] I would have to agree.The time saved alone would be worth that much. I would jump on the buy it now!!!!if the workmanship is good. Graham Mitchell. Project Manager, Coast Composites, Tel 949 455 0665 ext 128, e-mail gmitchell@coastcomposites.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ruhnke, Mike Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] Its a deal at the Buy it Now price. My tubing cost me $1,800. My wheels were another $1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=2469739716&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This message and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply email or call theIT Department at 949.455.0665 x125 and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you. I would have to agree.The time saved alone would be worth that much. I would jump on the buy it now!!!!if the workmanship is good. Graham Mitchell. Project Manager, Coast Composites, Tel 949 455 0665 ext 128, e-mail gmitchell@coastcomposites.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ruhnke, Mike PM size2 colorblack faceTahoma>tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay]

Its a deal at the Buy it Now price. My tubing cost me $1,800. My wheels were another $1000.

-----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay]

What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem2469739716sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This message and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply email or call the=A0IT Department at 949.455.0665 x125 and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:48 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] You spent too much on the wheels..... :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ruhnke, Mike To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] Its a deal at the Buy it Now price. My tubing cost me $1,800. My wheels were another $1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:31 PM To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2469739716&sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:12 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] Note his reserve is $1200.... This could be a good deal for someone out there wanting to go flying... Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce E. Butts To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2469739716&sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] From: Jerry Hey On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 04:01 PM, Ruhnke, Mike wrote: > Its a deal at the Buy it Now price.=A0 My tubing cost me $1,800.=A0 My > wheels were another $1000. I don't have good records, but I don't think I spent near $1,800 for my tubing. Jerry ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:26 PM PST US From: "Tom Cummings" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] I looked at the advertisement. I like the fuselage but it is too far for me to go from Louisiana. On the related website pictures for that fuselage, http://www.foleyrace.com/w-10.htm the last photo shows a close up of the welding of the landing gear mount and engine mount tubes. What are the four small holes for? Weld heat relieving, oil treatment, etc.? Is this normally done when welding our fuselages? Thanks Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Mitchell To: 'tailwind-list@matronics.com' Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] I would have to agree.The time saved alone would be worth that much. I would jump on the buy it now!!!!if the workmanship is good. Graham Mitchell. Project Manager, Coast Composites, Tel 949 455 0665 ext 128, e-mail gmitchell@coastcomposites.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ruhnke, Mike Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:02 PM To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] Its a deal at the Buy it Now price. My tubing cost me $1,800. My wheels were another $1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:31 PM To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2469739716&sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This message and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply email or call the IT Department at 949.455.0665 x125 and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:44 PM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] Tom, you guessed right. The holes let the expanded air in the closed tube to escape until the welds are completed, otherwise the last part of the weld blows back at you. The holes are welded shut after all the welds are finished and cooled. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Cummings To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] I looked at the advertisement. I like the fuselage but it is too far for me to go from Louisiana. On the related website pictures for that fuselage, http://www.foleyrace.com/w-10.htm the last photo shows a close up of the welding of the landing gear mount and engine mount tubes. What are the four small holes for? Weld heat relieving, oil treatment, etc.? Is this normally done when welding our fuselages? Thanks Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Mitchell To: 'tailwind-list@matronics.com' Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] I would have to agree.The time saved alone would be worth that much. I would jump on the buy it now!!!!if the workmanship is good. Graham Mitchell. Project Manager, Coast Composites, Tel 949 455 0665 ext 128, e-mail gmitchell@coastcomposites.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ruhnke, Mike Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:02 PM To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] Its a deal at the Buy it Now price. My tubing cost me $1,800. My wheels were another $1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce E. Butts Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:31 PM To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] What do you all think would be a fair price for this? After looking at the photos it seems to be constructed well but without the Clement mods. Thanks, Bruce Butts Columbus, Ohio George Turner wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2469739716&sspagenameADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This message and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply email or call the IT Department at 949.455.0665 x125 and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:28 PM PST US From: "tailwind614" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind fuselage on Ebay] It appears that the engine mount and firewall were built to the original plans with bolt welded into the longeron, so it is likely to be an earlier W-10 fuselage. That being said, I've just completed mods to my W-10 which include moving the seat back 2", new aileron controls, new flap handle system, etc. Someone wanting a comfortable W-10 would be miles ahead by buying that fuselage and modifying it. If it was built straight to begin with. Jim Berry ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:41 PM PST US From: "JB Selk" Subject: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing I am repairing the tailfeathers of a W8 and will need to put new 3/8" channel in a few spots. I understand the channel was brazed to the tubing originally. What are the options for joining new channel to the tubing? I have no welding experience and am looking for the best/easiest way for a beginner to do this with a minimum of equipment. I've read that MIG is difficult, TIG is expensive, brazing can also be difficult, etc. Would a small wire feed unit work? No welding of tubing is required, just replacement of some channel stringers on the elevators, horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Thank you for any and all replies. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:00 PM PST US From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing You will have to braze the new channel on. It is very difficult to clean up a brazed area so it can be welded without cracking the steel tubing. Wire welder is not a option. You will need a oxygen-acetylene torch. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: JB Selk To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:43 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing I am repairing the tailfeathers of a W8 and will need to put new 3/8" channel in a few spots. I understand the channel was brazed to the tubing originally. What are the options for joining new channel to the tubing? I have no welding experience and am looking for the best/easiest way for a beginner to do this with a minimum of equipment. I've read that MIG is difficult, TIG is expensive, brazing can also be difficult, etc. Would a small wire feed unit work? No welding of tubing is required, just replacement of some channel stringers on the elevators, horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Thank you for any and all replies. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:53 PM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Jim said: You will have to braze the new channel on. It is very difficult to clean up a brazed area so it can be welded without cracking the steel tubing. Wire welder is not a option. You will need a oxygen-acetylene torch. Jim C ----- Original Message ----- From: JB Selk I'm going to suggest, DON'T do it yourself until you know why welding on brazed 4130 is a "Bad Thing", and have brazed a bunch of it yourself. The subject has been discussed previously, but how to get the info to the new guys? Is this a topic for "the Book"? Richard ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:29 PM PST US From: "Rick and Cindy" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing JB: Brazing is not particularly difficult, but neither is hot lapping Daytona if you're Dick Petty. Seriously, if you want to learn, a halfway decent mentor should be able to have you making good braze joints in a weekend. If you just have a few braze repairs, it might be better to find a good welder (brazer?) and get him and your project together for a few hours. There is some argument that brazing of 4130 is bad, this may be technically correct, although I personally have my doubts, and I don't really give a damn who wrote what book about it. As a practical matter, I don't know of any Tailwinds that have fallen out of the sky for this reason. I've done a lot of brazing, the company I work for has developed it to a fine art, and the braze applications on the Tailwind are just fine. The Crosley engine block was brazed together, now there's a stressful application for brazing. Rick N241SW ----- Original Message ----- From: JB Selk To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:43 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing I am repairing the tailfeathers of a W8 and will need to put new 3/8" channel in a few spots. I understand the channel was brazed to the tubing originally. What are the options for joining new channel to the tubing? I have no welding experience and am looking for the best/easiest way for a beginner to do this with a minimum of equipment. I've read that MIG is difficult, TIG is expensive, brazing can also be difficult, etc. Would a small wire feed unit work? No welding of tubing is required, just replacement of some channel stringers on the elevators, horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Thank you for any and all replies. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:19 PM PST US From: George Turner Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding/Brazing JB: I had the same situationb........I just took it to a profesional person who knows how to braze. Just took a few minutes and a few bucks. George.....Phoenix JB Selk wrote:I am repairing the tailfeathers of a W8 and will need to put new 3/8" channel in a few spots. I understand the channel was brazed to the tubing originally. What are the options for joining new channel to the tubing? I have no welding experience and am looking for the best/easiest way for a beginner to do this with a minimum of equipment. I've read that MIG is difficult, TIG is expensive, brazing can also be difficult, etc. Would a small wire feed unit work? No welding of tubing is required, just replacement of some channel stringers on the elevators, horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Thank you for any and all replies. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:02 PM PST US From: "red" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: EAA and Steve --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" Maybe EAA info services will do a video Please? Red ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Ellis" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: EAA and Steve > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis > > Cy and others, > > For those of us who will not be able to attend the > Wittman Celebration at Oshkosh, I hope someone > attending will be able to capture a few photos and > write a short review for the Tailwind Forum. rle > > > --- Cy Galley wrote: > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > > > Remembering Steve Wittman > > EAA Airventure Museum Celebrates His 100th Birthday > > > > The EAA AirVenture Museum is > > celebrating the 100th birth anniversary of the late > > Steve Wittman > > (right), one of Oshkosh's and Wisconsin's most > > famous > > aviators, with special activities April 3-5. > > > > Activities include guided tours of EAA's Wittman > > Hangar, > > located at the museum's Pioneer Airport, as well as > > a special > > "Memories of Steve" evening program at 7 p.m. on > > Monday, April 5, > > that will include comments from many of Wittman's > > close > > friends who he knew through his years as a renowned > > aircraft > > designer, builder and racer. > > > > "There are very few people who can claim the legacy > > that Steve > > Wittman established in so many fields of aviation," > > said Adam > > Smith, EAA AirVenture Museum Director. "He was a > > lifelong resident > > of the Fox Valley and we are proud that Oshkosh can > > claim him as > > its own. As part of EAA's mission to preserve > > aviation > > history, we will celebrate Steve's life and > > contributions, > > since his dedication to the world of flight helped > > make Oshkosh the > > home of sport aviation." > > > > Wittman was born on April 5, 1904, in Byron (WI), > > just a short > > distance south of Oshkosh. He began designing and > > building > > airplanes in the 1920s, and was soon racing his > > creations > > successfully against the top pilots of the famed > > "Golden Age of Air > > Racing" era of the 1920s and 1930s. He operated as > > an independent > > racer against the nation's best competitors, who > > were usually > > financed by large corporations. > > > > Wittman's contributions reached far beyond racing, > > however, though he continued competing well into his > > 80s. His > > aircraft designs, such as the Wittman Tailwind, > > Buttercup and > > others, are still being constructed today, while his > > spring-steel > > landing gear design was adopted by Cessna and > > eventually used in > > thousands of small airplanes. As a flight > > instructor, Wittman > > trained hundreds of military pilots during the World > > War II era and > > countless more throughout his 70-plus years of > > flying. > > > > An early member and supporter of the > > fledgling Experimental Aircraft Association, Wittman > > helped nurture > > the organization as an aircraft builder and as > > manager of the > > Winnebago County Airport. When EAA sought a new home > > for its annual > > fly-in in 1970, Wittman encouraged the organization > > to come to > > Oshkosh, where it remains today. The EAA fly-in, > > known today as EAA > > AirVenture, has become the world's largest general > > aviation > > event and is still at the Oshkosh airport, which now > > bears the > > Wittman Regional Airport name. A State of Wisconsin > > historical > > marker now notes the location of Wittman's hangar on > > the > > north side of the airport. > > > > During the April 3-5 events, the Wittman Hangar will > > showcase > > several of his designs, from his first "Hardly > > Ableson" model that > > used a surplus Harley-Davidson engine, to his racing > > and pleasure > > aircraft. During the April 5 evening program, > > Wittman biographer > > Aaron King and EAA founder Paul Poberezny will be > > among those who > > offer recollections of the famed aviator. > > FMI: www.eaa.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > Richard L. Ellis, M.D. > Gundersen Lutheran Health System > Co-Director > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care > 1900 South Avenue > La Crosse, WI 54601 > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102 > rjrellis@yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > >