Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:32 AM - Wet Wings (Phil Flaugher)
2. 03:38 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Robert Ardis)
3. 04:50 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Eric Schlanser)
4. 05:06 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Bruce E. Butts)
5. 06:50 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Phil Flaugher)
6. 07:13 PM - SAA Urbana (john)
7. 07:24 PM - Re: SAA Urbana (Jim and Donna Clement)
8. 07:27 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Jerry Hey)
9. 07:51 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Phil Flaugher)
10. 08:46 PM - Re: Wet Wings (Tom Cummings)
11. 08:56 PM - Top Longeron Splice (Tom Cummings)
Message 1
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Question from a novice...
While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first five inboard ribs
could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a form fitted tank between the front
and rear spar.....
Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
Phil
Message 2
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis" <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking in a wooden
wing has always
been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of composite tanks,
it should not
be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and the tanks are
incorporated in
the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North Texas that had
the canted
wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
>From: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
>
>Question from a novice...
>While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first five inboard
>ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a form fitted tank
>between the front and rear spar.....
>Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
>
>Phil
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win
a trip to NY
http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/
Message 3
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The numbers don't justify the effort in my opinion. The Tailwind wing is not very
deep. So you do not get much fuel in them for the effort to build and plumb.
Most aux tanks end up in the baggage area with a simple aux pump to bring the
gas into the main tank. The Calbie Wood metal wings do have integral fuel tanks
optional and some have them.
Eric
Robert Ardis <ardis_rb@hotmail.com> wrote:--> Tailwind-List message posted by:
"Robert Ardis"
Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking in a wooden
wing has always
been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of composite tanks,
it should not
be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and the tanks are
incorporated in
the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North Texas that had
the canted
wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
>From: "Phil Flaugher"
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
>Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
>
>Question from a novice...
>While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first five inboard
>ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a form fitted tank
>between the front and rear spar.....
>Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
>
>Phil
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win
a trip to NY
http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/
---------------------------------
Message 4
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bruce E. Butts" <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
Earl Trimble has a metal winged Tailwind with wet wings. Met him at OSH
last year, hope your'e planning on coming again this year Earl.
I am making a Tailwind with metal wet wings but I am still building
(making aluminum scrap is more like it).
Bruce Butts
Robert Ardis wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis"
> <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking in a
> wooden wing has always
> been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of composite
> tanks, it should not
> be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and the tanks
> are incorporated in
> the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North Texas
> that had the canted
> wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
>
>> From: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
>> Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
>> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
>>
>> Question from a novice...
>> While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first five
>> inboard ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a form
>> fitted tank between the front and rear spar.....
>> Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
>>
>> Phil
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter
> to win a trip to NY
> http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 5
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
Thanks for the replies, guys.
I appreciate the precautions BUT my desire to build the Tailwind is
to achieve high speed and altitude for long distance flight. I know
I will need turbo-normalizing and additional fuel. I would prefer to
keep the cg as close to a non-consideration as possible and I like
the wood wing.
I agree that composites are the way to go and we have the perfect
man for the job (Brian Alley). I do not have plans yet but believe
there is probably room for a total of twenty to thirty gallons of
gravity fed fuel.
Ultimate goal: 200 mph cruise, 18,000 ft+, 1,000 mile range without
an auxiliary fuel tank. I believe a rotary turbo engine, wet wings
and a TruTrac ap w/ IFR GPS will do that.
Can anyone provide me a rough rib template and the distance from the
first rib to the closest rib to the strut? I would use this info to
calculate volume available......
Thanks,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce E. Butts" <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bruce E. Butts"
<bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
>
> Earl Trimble has a metal winged Tailwind with wet wings. Met him
at OSH
> last year, hope your'e planning on coming again this year Earl.
>
> I am making a Tailwind with metal wet wings but I am still
building
> (making aluminum scrap is more like it).
>
> Bruce Butts
>
> Robert Ardis wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis"
> > <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking
in a
> > wooden wing has always
> > been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of
composite
> > tanks, it should not
> > be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and the
tanks
> > are incorporated in
> > the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North
Texas
> > that had the canted
> > wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
> >
> >> From: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
> >> Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> >> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
> >>
> >> Question from a novice...
> >> While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first
five
> >> inboard ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a
form
> >> fitted tank between the front and rear spar.....
> >> Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
> >>
> >> Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and
enter
> > to win a trip to NY
> >
http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
======
>
======
>
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
>
======
>
>
Message 6
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Jim; If the weather gods are smiling, does the Baraboo gang plan on making
Urbana this year? I would like to fly, as it is 8-1/2 hours by auto if you
don't get stuck in Chicago due to an accident. It is always good to look at
projects for ideas. Tomorrow I will start applying the color, so hope to
have the fuselage painted in the next couple of days. I may be approaching
the 90, 90 point on the project. JohnD Don't Archive
Message 7
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
John, The Baraboo gang is down to Russ only. Bob is out of town, I am
without a airplane, Gary Volkman is on his way to Montana. George did get
here from AZ about 7:00 tonight, he might be there. I might be able to use
Bob's TW. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: SAA Urbana
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>
> Jim; If the weather gods are smiling, does the Baraboo gang plan on
making
> Urbana this year? I would like to fly, as it is 8-1/2 hours by auto if
you
> don't get stuck in Chicago due to an accident. It is always good to look
at
> projects for ideas. Tomorrow I will start applying the color, so hope to
> have the fuselage painted in the next couple of days. I may be
approaching
> the 90, 90 point on the project. JohnD Don't Archive
>
>
Message 8
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
Phil, I do believe that you can get 18 gallons in each wood wing.
These will gravity feed to the main tank. Put check valves in the
lines so that the fuel cannot flow from one wing to the other. A
couple of years ago, I drew up such a system and even managed to get a
flush fuel cap in each wing. A search of my hard drive did not turn up
the drawings but they are there someplace. Probably saved under some
screwy name that I cannot recall. I do remember a lot of the
details. I will write more on this subject when I get back from SAA.
Jerry
On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 08:41 PM, Phil Flaugher wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Phil Flaugher"
> <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
>
> Thanks for the replies, guys.
> I appreciate the precautions BUT my desire to build the Tailwind is
> to achieve high speed and altitude for long distance flight. I know
> I will need turbo-normalizing and additional fuel. I would prefer to
> keep the cg as close to a non-consideration as possible and I like
> the wood wing.
> I agree that composites are the way to go and we have the perfect
> man for the job (Brian Alley). I do not have plans yet but believe
> there is probably room for a total of twenty to thirty gallons of
> gravity fed fuel.
> Ultimate goal: 200 mph cruise, 18,000 ft+, 1,000 mile range without
> an auxiliary fuel tank. I believe a rotary turbo engine, wet wings
> and a TruTrac ap w/ IFR GPS will do that.
> Can anyone provide me a rough rib template and the distance from the
> first rib to the closest rib to the strut? I would use this info to
> calculate volume available......
> Thanks,
> Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce E. Butts" <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
>
>
>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bruce E. Butts"
> <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
>>
>> Earl Trimble has a metal winged Tailwind with wet wings. Met him
> at OSH
>> last year, hope your'e planning on coming again this year Earl.
>>
>> I am making a Tailwind with metal wet wings but I am still
> building
>> (making aluminum scrap is more like it).
>>
>> Bruce Butts
>>
>> Robert Ardis wrote:
>>
>>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis"
>>> <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking
> in a
>>> wooden wing has always
>>> been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of
> composite
>>> tanks, it should not
>>> be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and the
> tanks
>>> are incorporated in
>>> the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North
> Texas
>>> that had the canted
>>> wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
>>>
>>>> From: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
>>>> Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>>>> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
>>>> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
>>>>
>>>> Question from a novice...
>>>> While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first
> five
>>>> inboard ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a
> form
>>>> fitted tank between the front and rear spar.....
>>>> Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and
> enter
>>> to win a trip to NY
>>>
> http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/
> direct/01/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ======
>>
> ======
>>
> ======
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
>>
> ======
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 9
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
Thanks!!
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey
<j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>
> Phil, I do believe that you can get 18 gallons in each wood
wing.
> These will gravity feed to the main tank. Put check valves in the
> lines so that the fuel cannot flow from one wing to the other. A
> couple of years ago, I drew up such a system and even managed to
get a
> flush fuel cap in each wing. A search of my hard drive did not
turn up
> the drawings but they are there someplace. Probably saved under
some
> screwy name that I cannot recall. I do remember a lot of the
> details. I will write more on this subject when I get back from
SAA.
> Jerry
>
>
> On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 08:41 PM, Phil Flaugher wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Phil Flaugher"
> > <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
> >
> > Thanks for the replies, guys.
> > I appreciate the precautions BUT my desire to build the Tailwind
is
> > to achieve high speed and altitude for long distance flight. I
know
> > I will need turbo-normalizing and additional fuel. I would
prefer to
> > keep the cg as close to a non-consideration as possible and I
like
> > the wood wing.
> > I agree that composites are the way to go and we have the
perfect
> > man for the job (Brian Alley). I do not have plans yet but
believe
> > there is probably room for a total of twenty to thirty gallons
of
> > gravity fed fuel.
> > Ultimate goal: 200 mph cruise, 18,000 ft+, 1,000 mile range
without
> > an auxiliary fuel tank. I believe a rotary turbo engine, wet
wings
> > and a TruTrac ap w/ IFR GPS will do that.
> > Can anyone provide me a rough rib template and the distance from
the
> > first rib to the closest rib to the strut? I would use this info
to
> > calculate volume available......
> > Thanks,
> > Phil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bruce E. Butts" <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> >
> >
> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bruce E. Butts"
> > <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
> >>
> >> Earl Trimble has a metal winged Tailwind with wet wings. Met
him
> > at OSH
> >> last year, hope your'e planning on coming again this year Earl.
> >>
> >> I am making a Tailwind with metal wet wings but I am still
> > building
> >> (making aluminum scrap is more like it).
> >>
> >> Bruce Butts
> >>
> >> Robert Ardis wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis"
> >>> <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking
> > in a
> >>> wooden wing has always
> >>> been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of
> > composite
> >>> tanks, it should not
> >>> be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and
the
> > tanks
> >>> are incorporated in
> >>> the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North
> > Texas
> >>> that had the canted
> >>> wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >>>> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> >>>> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>> Question from a novice...
> >>>> While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first
> > five
> >>>> inboard ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a
> > form
> >>>> fitted tank between the front and rear spar.....
> >>>> Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >>> Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and
> > enter
> >>> to win a trip to NY
> >>>
> >
http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/
> > direct/01/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ======
> >>
> > ======
> >>
> > ======
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> >>
> > ======
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _-
> >
====================================================================
===
> > > > _-
> >
====================================================================
===
> > > > _-
> >
====================================================================
===
> > > > _-
> >
====================================================================
===
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
======
>
======
>
======
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
>
======
>
>
Message 10
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Tom Cummings" <tomlc@earthlink.net>
Since the Tailwind doesn't have any dihedral in the wings, would it benefit
to make the fuel tanks with the bottom surface slanted to cause fuel to
drain in an inboard direction? And use this in conjunction with one-way
valves?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>
> Phil, I do believe that you can get 18 gallons in each wood wing.
> These will gravity feed to the main tank. Put check valves in the
> lines so that the fuel cannot flow from one wing to the other. A
> couple of years ago, I drew up such a system and even managed to get a
> flush fuel cap in each wing. A search of my hard drive did not turn up
> the drawings but they are there someplace. Probably saved under some
> screwy name that I cannot recall. I do remember a lot of the
> details. I will write more on this subject when I get back from SAA.
> Jerry
>
>
> On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 08:41 PM, Phil Flaugher wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Phil Flaugher"
> > <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
> >
> > Thanks for the replies, guys.
> > I appreciate the precautions BUT my desire to build the Tailwind is
> > to achieve high speed and altitude for long distance flight. I know
> > I will need turbo-normalizing and additional fuel. I would prefer to
> > keep the cg as close to a non-consideration as possible and I like
> > the wood wing.
> > I agree that composites are the way to go and we have the perfect
> > man for the job (Brian Alley). I do not have plans yet but believe
> > there is probably room for a total of twenty to thirty gallons of
> > gravity fed fuel.
> > Ultimate goal: 200 mph cruise, 18,000 ft+, 1,000 mile range without
> > an auxiliary fuel tank. I believe a rotary turbo engine, wet wings
> > and a TruTrac ap w/ IFR GPS will do that.
> > Can anyone provide me a rough rib template and the distance from the
> > first rib to the closest rib to the strut? I would use this info to
> > calculate volume available......
> > Thanks,
> > Phil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bruce E. Butts" <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> >
> >
> >> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bruce E. Butts"
> > <bbutts@columbus.rr.com>
> >>
> >> Earl Trimble has a metal winged Tailwind with wet wings. Met him
> > at OSH
> >> last year, hope your'e planning on coming again this year Earl.
> >>
> >> I am making a Tailwind with metal wet wings but I am still
> > building
> >> (making aluminum scrap is more like it).
> >>
> >> Bruce Butts
> >>
> >> Robert Ardis wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis"
> >>> <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Phil, I don't think that is a big problem but gasoline leaking
> > in a
> >>> wooden wing has always
> >>> been looked upon as not a good design. With the advent of
> > composite
> >>> tanks, it should not
> >>> be a problem. Some Tailwinds are built with metal wings and the
> > tanks
> >>> are incorporated in
> >>> the wings. Many years ago, there was a Tailwind here in North
> > Texas
> >>> that had the canted
> >>> wing tip tanks. Seemed to work fine.
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Phil Flaugher" <phil.flaugher@charter.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >>>> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >>>> Subject: Tailwind-List: Wet Wings
> >>>> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:27:31 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>> Question from a novice...
> >>>> While viewing pictures it appeared to me that that the first
> > five
> >>>> inboard ribs could be modified to provide a fuel bay with a
> > form
> >>>> fitted tank between the front and rear spar.....
> >>>> Am I nuts? Why hasn't this been done?
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > _________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Top Longeron Splice |
I was figuring how to order my tubing for the airframe and found that shipping
in eight foot lengths could expedite delievery and reduce cost from Dillsburg.
If I have the top longeron pieces cut into eight foot lengths, I determined that
I would have to make the top longeron splice about one foot aft its present
location on the plans.
Is there any problem with moving the location of the splice?
Tom
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