---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/14/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:10 AM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Alex Frizzell) 2. 07:20 AM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Richard Lamb) 3. 07:21 AM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Richard Lamb) 4. 09:28 AM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Estelle Danner) 5. 09:38 AM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Louis Owen) 6. 09:55 AM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Estelle Danner) 7. 02:03 PM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (DaveM) 8. 07:22 PM - A need for airspeed. (DENNIS VEST) 9. 08:47 PM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Alex Frizzell) 10. 09:15 PM - Bending Control Surfaces (Craig Van Sickle) 11. 09:28 PM - Re: nice W-8 for addoption (Alex Frizzell) 12. 09:58 PM - Re: A need for airspeed. (mytyweav@earthlink.net) 13. 10:48 PM - Re: Bending Control Surfaces (Luc H.) 14. 11:17 PM - Re: Bending Control Surfaces (Richard Lamb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:09 AM PST US From: "Alex Frizzell" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:09:22 -0500 Richard, I sure need a lot of questions answered first. 1. How docile is the w-8 over the w-10? (landing speeds, stall ). I am at present building a w-10 and have a lot of parts and some work done. Not planning on abandoning this project, as I am a speed freak, but just wondered if it would be a good idea to purchase a w-8 since they are quite a bit cheaper than some of the w-10s I have come across. I've got " FLY FEVER". I have not flown in over a year. could I assume that the w-8 would be a good trainer for the w-10? My flying experience consists of 500 hr. cessna 152/172/182, 20+ hrs gliders student only, other obligations halted my getting my glider ticket. some j-3, early years, and some Glassair (no landings). Glassair spoiled me on speed. If you could answer some of these questions I might be interested. I would like to see some pics of this w-8 and do you know anything about the builder? (reputable craftsmanship) Any info will be helpful. Thanks Alex Frizzell Alabama. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lamb To: Tailwind List Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Dave Sanford asked me to post a message to the list that he is willing to sell his W-8 in order to motivate himself to finish his W-10. Asking $12k Any one who is interested, send me a not and I'll get you in touch with him. Richard Lamb ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:24 AM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb I put a couple of pics on the TailwindForum picture space. One of the plane, on of the panel. Look for N4GM folder. This link MIGHT work? http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tailwindforum/lst?&.dir=/N4GM Richard ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:36 AM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Can someone who has actually flown both models answer this? Richard, I sure need a lot of questions answered first. 1. How docile is the w-8 over the w-10? (landing speeds, stall ). I am at present building a w-10 and have a lot of parts and some work done. Not planning on abandoning this project, as I am a speed freak, but just wondered if it would be a good idea to purchase a w-8 since they are quite a bit cheaper than some of the w-10s I have come across. I've got " FLY FEVER". I have not flown in over a year. could I assume that the w-8 would be a good trainer for the w-10? My flying experience consists of 500 hr. cessna 152/172/182, 20+ hrs gliders student only, other obligations halted my getting my glider ticket. some j-3, early years, and some Glassair (no landings). Glassair spoiled me on speed. If you could answer some of these questions I might be interested. I would like to see some pics of this w-8 and do you know anything about the builder? (reputable craftsmanship) Any info will be helpful. Thanks Alex Frizzell Alabama. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:17 AM PST US From: "Estelle Danner" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption go for it Alex Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Frizzell To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:09 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Richard, I sure need a lot of questions answered first. 1. How docile is the w-8 over the w-10? (landing speeds, stall ). I am at present building a w-10 and have a lot of parts and some work done. Not planning on abandoning this project, as I am a speed freak, but just wondered if it would be a good idea to purchase a w-8 since they are quite a bit cheaper than some of the w-10s I have come across. I've got " FLY FEVER". I have not flown in over a year. could I assume that the w-8 would be a good trainer for the w-10? My flying experience consists of 500 hr. cessna 152/172/182, 20+ hrs gliders student only, other obligations halted my getting my glider ticket. some j-3, early years, and some Glassair (no landings). Glassair spoiled me on speed. If you could answer some of these questions I might be interested. I would like to see some pics of this w-8 and do you know anything about the builder? (reputable craftsmanship) Any info will be helpful. Thanks Alex Frizzell Alabama. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lamb To: Tailwind List Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Dave Sanford asked me to post a message to the list that he is willing to sell his W-8 in order to motivate himself to finish his W-10. Asking $12k Any one who is interested, send me a not and I'll get you in touch with him. Richard p; entirely see Matronics ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<< ">tailwind-list@matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matron Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matroni Browse Digests: http://www.matroni Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/ Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:26 AM PST US From: "Louis Owen" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen" N4GM was built by Glen McQuiston in Indiana. I once got a ride in the airplane. Lou Owen Former N6PJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Lamb" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb > > I put a couple of pics on the TailwindForum picture space. > One of the plane, on of the panel. > > Look for N4GM folder. > > This link MIGHT work? > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tailwindforum/lst?&.dir=/N4GM > > Richard > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:57 AM PST US From: "Estelle Danner" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Alex we have about the same experience 172/ 152 /a little champ/ cub time only thing is i went to a trike . but what the heck you are still young enough to still learn . to late for me i got about 5 hrs dual with Eldon McDaniel and i was good to go . of course Eldon could fly a barn door if it had a engine and rudder .get some dual have some fun Bob Danner ----- Original Message ----- From: Estelle Danner To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption go for it Alex Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Frizzell To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:09 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Richard, I sure need a lot of questions answered first. 1. How docile is the w-8 over the w-10? (landing speeds, stall ). I am at present building a w-10 and have a lot of parts and some work done. Not planning on abandoning this project, as I am a speed freak, but just wondered if it would be a good idea to purchase a w-8 since they are quite a bit cheaper than some of the w-10s I have come across. I've got " FLY FEVER". I have not flown in over a year. could I assume that the w-8 would be a good trainer for the w-10? My flying experience consists of 500 hr. cessna 152/172/182, 20+ hrs gliders student only, other obligations halted my getting my glider ticket. some j-3, early years, and some Glassair (no landings). Glassair spoiled me on speed. If you could answer some of these questions I might be interested. I would like to see some pics of this w-8 and do you know anything about the builder? (reputable craftsmanship) Any info will be helpful. Thanks Alex Frizzell Alabama. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lamb To: Tailwind List Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Dave Sanford asked me to post a message to the list that he is willing to sell his W-8 in order to motivate himself to finish his W-10. Asking $12k Any one who is interested, send me a not and I'll get you in touch with him. Richard p; entirely see Matronics ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<< ">tailwind-list@matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matron Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matroni Browse Digests: http://www.matroni Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/ Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:50 PM PST US From: "DaveM" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "DaveM" Good looking bird, and the price seems real reasonable also. What are the times on airframe and SMOH? Just curious, no I am not buying another one! Dave 168A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:19 PM PST US From: "DENNIS VEST" Subject: Tailwind-List: A need for airspeed. Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:55:07 -0700 Last year while flying the orange tailwind my pitot line became disconnected at the point where the line makes the 90 degree turn at the face of the front spar inside the wing. The summer flying season is here and at some point I'd like to have a working airspeed indicator. Probably a low pressure hose makes the turn and no accommodation was made for when the hose dried and lost it's grip on what appears to be a nyflow plastic line leading to the cockpit. There is no access to this point and it seems that the only way to reconnect this line is to cut a hole through the plywood skin and install a small inspection plate. It seems a shame to cut a hole in this beautifully built wing but I see no option. It's an obvious lesson that anytime you install hardware inside an inaccessible structure, it has to be done right the first time. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks Dennis Vest ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:19 PM PST US From: "Alex Frizzell" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:46:31 -0500 Bob, there are a couple of guys down here that are like that. I don't think they have any tailwind experience, but the only thing missing is feathers and a beak. I honestly believe they could fly with just their arms. One of these guys never set foot in a glider and came to one of our meets and NO INSTRUCTION, jumped into his New Grobe and flew it like a professional. Like I said, just needed feathers and a beak. I want to check out this w-8 but the Boss said we need a new home first. I feel I am going to loose this battle since I already have started the w-10. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Estelle Danner To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Alex we have about the same experience 172/ 152 /a little champ/ cub time only thing is i went to a trike . but what the heck you are still young enough to still learn . to late for me i got about 5 hrs dual with Eldon McDaniel and i was good to go . of course Eldon could fly a barn door if it had a engine and rudder .get some dual have some fun Bob Danner ----- Original Message ----- From: Estelle Danner To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption go for it Alex Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Frizzell To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 7:09 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Richard, I sure need a lot of questions answered first. 1. How docile is the w-8 over the w-10? (landing speeds, stall ). I am at present building a w-10 and have a lot of parts and some work done. Not planning on abandoning this project, as I am a speed freak, but just wondered if it would be a good idea to purchase a w-8 since they are quite a bit cheaper than some of the w-10s I have come across. I've got " FLY FEVER". I have not flown in over a year. could I assume that the w-8 would be a good trainer for the w-10? My flying experience consists of 500 hr. cessna 152/172/182, 20+ hrs gliders student only, other obligations halted my getting my glider ticket. some j-3, early years, and some Glassair (no landings). Glassair spoiled me on speed. If you could answer some of these questions I might be interested. I would like to see some pics of this w-8 and do you know anything about the builder? (reputable craftsmanship) Any info will be helpful. Thanks Alex Frizzell Alabama. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lamb To: Tailwind List Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Dave Sanford asked me to post a message to the list that he is willing to sell his W-8 in order to motivate himself to finish his W-10. Asking $12k Any one who is interested, send me a not and I'll get you in touch with him. Richard p; entirely see Matronics ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<< ">tailwind-list@matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matron Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matroni Browse Digests: http://www.matroni Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/ Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:44 PM PST US From: "Craig Van Sickle" Subject: Tailwind-List: Bending Control Surfaces --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Craig Van Sickle" I recently began construction of the aluminum ailerons and flaps. The article in TT called for using .020 or .025. After looking at the dimensions of the control surfaces and playing with a piece of both thicknesses of metal I decided on the .020. Ispent a few hours Friday night sceaming on a piece of paper howto make the 64" bend for the flaps. I came up with a plan that I thought would work but it sounded too easy so I gave it a try. I bought a very hard, straight2X4 and 2X6 stud.I also picked up a couple of very nice looking1X2s. The total was around 10 bucks.(home depot must love guys like me picking through 30-40 boards to find the perfect one) The2X4 and 2X6 where cut to an inch over the flap length. The2X4 was laid flat and the two1X2(more like 3/4X1 1/2) where screwed on thewide face of the 2X4 forming agroove. The 2X6 was ripped to a 60 degree point on one side then a 3/16radius was sand ed on the edge.A piece of 1/2 plywood with a groove wide enough for the 2X6 attached to each end of the 2X4,this allowed the 2X6 toslideup and down vertically into the slot formed by the 2X4s and 1X2s. I then used the emergency jacks from my truck and my wife's car, placed the assembly under my F150 and pressed off the two frame rails. This bent thecontrol surfaces to 90 plus degrees. They were then folded the rest of the way over. It worked very well, to my surprise. If anyone is not intelligent enough toget there control surfaces bent by a sheet metal shop and a little too cheap, I may have a solution for you. I am curious howothers accomplished this bend? Craig Van Sickle ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:11 PM PST US From: "Alex Frizzell" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:27:39 -0500 Richard, Having a little trouble trying to get into Yahoo tailwind forum group. don't know why I can't get the pics. I'll keep trying. Never had this problem before. Alex. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Lamb To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: nice W-8 for addoption --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb I put a couple of pics on the TailwindForum picture space. One of the plane, on of the panel. Look for N4GM folder. This link MIGHT work? http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tailwindforum/lst?&.dir/N4GM Richard ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:45 PM PST US From: "mytyweav@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: A need for airspeed. --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "mytyweav@earthlink.net" Dennis.... It has to be done. I've gone thru the skin before and it can be done without making a big "Zit"... Should be back to Calif by Friday. Weav Original Message: ----------------- From: DENNIS VEST shorbird@msn.com Subject: Tailwind-List: A need for airspeed. Last year while flying the orange tailwind my pitot line became disconnected at the point where the line makes the 90 degree turn at the face of the front spar inside the wing. The summer flying season is here and at some point I'd like to have a working airspeed indicator. Probably a low pressure hose makes the turn and no accommodation was made for when the hose dried and lost it's grip on what appears to be a nyflow plastic line leading to the cockpit. There is no access to this point and it seems that the only way to reconnect this line is to cut a hole through the plywood skin and install a small inspection plate. It seems a shame to cut a hole in this beautifully built wing but I see no option. It's an obvious lesson that anytime you install hardware inside an inaccessible structure, it has to be done right the first time. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks Dennis Vest ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:03 PM PST US From: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Bending Control Surfaces Craig Do you have a photo of this set up that you can share with us? Luc ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Van Sickle To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Tailwind-List: Bending Control Surfaces --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Craig Van Sickle" I recently began construction of the aluminum ailerons and flaps. The article in TT called for using .020 or .025. After looking at the dimensions of the control surfaces and playing with a piece of both thicknesses of metal I decided on the .020. I spent a few hours Friday night sceaming on a piece of paper how to make the 64" bend for the flaps. I came up with a plan that I thought would work but it sounded too easy so I gave it a try. I bought a very hard, straight 2X4 and 2X6 stud. I also picked up a couple of very nice looking 1X2s. The total was around 10 bucks.(home depot must love guys like me picking through 30-40 boards to find the perfect one) The 2X4 and 2X6 where cut to an inch over the flap length. The 2X4 was laid flat and the two 1X2(more like 3/4X1 1/2) where screwed on the wide face of the 2X4 forming a groove. The 2X6 was ripped to a 60 degree point on one side then a 3/16 radius was sand ed on the edge. A piece of 1/2 plywood with a groove wide enough for the 2X6 attached to each end of the 2X4, this allowed the 2X6 to slide up and down vertically into the slot formed by the 2X4s and 1X2s. I then used the emergency jacks from my truck and my wife's car, placed the assembly under my F150 and pressed off the two frame rails. This bent the control surfaces to 90 plus degrees. They were then folded the rest of the way over. It worked very well, to my surprise. If anyone is not intelligent enough to get there control surfaces bent by a sheet metal shop and a little too cheap, I may have a solution for you. I am curious how others accomplished this bend? Craig Van Sickle ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:11 PM PST US From: Richard Lamb Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Bending Control Surfaces --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Richard Lamb Huh! Mere child's play, Craig. The ailerons on my new parasol are TWELVE FEET long. :) Richard --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Craig Van Sickle" I recently began construction of the aluminum ailerons and flaps. The article in TT called for using .020 or .025. After looking at the dimensions of the control surfaces and playing with a piece of both thicknesses of metal I decided on the .020. I spent a few hours Friday night sceaming on a piece of paper how to make the 64" bend for the flaps. I came up with a plan that I thought would work but it sounded too easy so I gave it a try. I bought a very hard, straight 2X4 and 2X6 stud. I also picked up a couple of very nice looking 1X2s. The total was around 10 bucks.(home depot must love guys like me picking through 30-40 boards to find the perfect one) The 2X4 and 2X6 where cut to an inch over the flap length. The 2X4 was laid flat and the two 1X2(more like 3/4X1 1/2) where screwed on the wide face of the 2X4 forming a groove. The 2X6 was ripped to a 60 degree point on one side then a 3/16 radius was sand ed on the edge. A piece of 1/2 plywood with a groove wide enough for the 2X6 attached to each end of the 2X4, this allowed the 2X6 to slide up and down vertically into the slot formed by the 2X4s and 1X2s. I then used the emergency jacks from my truck and my wife's car, placed the assembly under my F150 and pressed off the two frame rails. This bent the control surfaces to 90 plus degrees. They were then folded the rest of the way over. It worked very well, to my surprise. If anyone is not intelligent enough to get there control surfaces bent by a sheet metal shop and a little too cheap, I may have a solution for you. I am curious how others accomplished this bend? Craig Van Sickle