Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:34 PM - Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and some related fuel questions (Rogers)
2. 08:03 PM - Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and some related fuel questions (Dave Conrad)
3. 08:07 PM - Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and some related fuel questions (Jim and Donna Clement)
4. 08:14 PM - Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and some related fuel questions (Estelle Danner)
5. 08:22 PM - Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and some related fuel questions (Rick)
6. 09:28 PM - Re: Therapy (red)
7. 09:33 PM - Re: w-10 (red)
8. 10:48 PM - Re: Therapy (Rick)
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| Subject: | Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and |
some related fuel questions
Fellow Listers
On its maiden flight, a Canadian-registered tricycle T-wind experienced an engine
stoppage shortly after take off and ended up on its back after a forced landing
in a soybean field. Test pilot had only minor scratches, but the plane is
close to being a write-off. Fuselage is in fairly good shape, and one wing seems
totally undamaged. Nose gear broke off and caused major damage to the other
wing. The dyna-focal engine mount hardly deformed at all and in fact broke the
attachment points off the motor case.
The owner is in the process of tearing down the engine but is already wondering
if fuel starvation may have played a role. The engine ran perfectly throughout
the take-off and only experienced problems as the test pilot pulled it into
a steep climb. He claims the engine ran rough for a few seconds and then stopped.
The wooden prop stopped windmilling almost immediately. Re-starting apparently
involved taking both hands off the stick--which he decided not to do at 150
feet off the runway. The pre-flight dipped fuel reading indicated about 3/4
full tank. I don't know how much head there was between the fuel tank outlet
and carb inlet.
Measured fuel flow with both the tail and the mains on the ground (don't know what
angle that represents) was 2 1/2 times maximum full throttle fuel consumption.
Questions:
Has anyone on the list experienced similar problems with the 0-300?
Is anyone flying a T-wind with the 0-300 WITHOUT fuel pump assist?
Does it seem likely that a wooden prop would stop windmilling that quickly with
the plane going 95 mph in a nose-high attitude?
The engine turned over freely post-crash. If the engine did seize in flight, is
it likely that it would unseize after the forced landing?
Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Roger
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| Subject: | Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight |
and some related fuel questions
Roger, If the angle of clime could be re constructed on the ground a
fuel flow test could then be done at that attitude. That would prove
fuel flow. Dave Conrad
On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 09:32 PM, Rogers wrote:
> Fellow Listers
>
> On its maiden flight, a Canadian-registered tricycle T-wind
> experienced an engine stoppage shortly after take off and ended up on
> its back after a forced landing in a soybean field. Test pilot had
> only minor scratches, but the plane is close to being a write-off.
> Fuselage is in fairly good shape, and one wing seems totally
> undamaged. Nose gear broke off and caused major damage to the other
> wing. The dyna-focal engine mount hardly deformed at all and in fact
> broke the attachment points off the motor case.
>
> The owner is in the process of tearing down the engine but is already
> wondering if fuel starvation may have played a role. The engine ran
> perfectly throughout the take-off and only experienced problems as the
> test pilot pulled it into a steep climb. He claims the engine ran
> rough for a few seconds and then stopped. The wooden prop stopped
> windmilling almost immediately. Re-starting apparently involved taking
> both hands off the stick--which he decided not to do at 150 feet off
> the runway. The pre-flight dipped fuel reading indicated about 3/4
> full tank. I don't know how much head there was between the fuel tank
> outlet and carb inlet.
>
> Measured fuel flow with both the tail and the mains on the ground
> (don't know what angle that represents) was 2 1/2 times maximum full
> throttle fuel consumption.
>
> Questions:
>
> Has anyone on the list experienced similar problems with the 0-300?
>
> Is anyone flying a T-wind with the 0-300 WITHOUT fuel pump assist?
> Does it seem likely that a wooden prop would stop windmilling that
> quickly with the plane going 95 mph in a nose-high attitude?
>
> The engine turned over freely post-crash. If the engine did seize in
> flight, is it likely that it would unseize after the forced landing?
>
> Any feedback greatly appreciated.
>
> Roger
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight |
and some related fuel questions
Sounds like a fuel venting problem. What you described is exactly what happens
including the prop stoppage. First, the pilot should not have entered into a steep
climb on the first flight without altitude. First thing is to pull carb heat,
this may help to richen the mixture, then back off on the throttle some.
They usually will catch up to themselves and it will keep running. I have had
two O-300 TWs and fuel tank venting is very important with a gravity fuel system.
What you think is a foolproof vent, doesn't always work. Did he keep the plumbing
to the carburetor to a minimum, was the tank outlet near the front or
rear. I doubt if there is anything wrong with the engine. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and
some related fuel questions
Fellow Listers
On its maiden flight, a Canadian-registered tricycle T-wind experienced an engine
stoppage shortly after take off and ended up on its back after a forced landing
in a soybean field. Test pilot had only minor scratches, but the plane
is close to being a write-off. Fuselage is in fairly good shape, and one wing
seems totally undamaged. Nose gear broke off and caused major damage to the other
wing. The dyna-focal engine mount hardly deformed at all and in fact broke
the attachment points off the motor case.
The owner is in the process of tearing down the engine but is already wondering
if fuel starvation may have played a role. The engine ran perfectly throughout
the take-off and only experienced problems as the test pilot pulled it into
a steep climb. He claims the engine ran rough for a few seconds and then stopped.
The wooden prop stopped windmilling almost immediately. Re-starting apparently
involved taking both hands off the stick--which he decided not to do at
150 feet off the runway. The pre-flight dipped fuel reading indicated about 3/4
full tank. I don't know how much head there was between the fuel tank outlet
and carb inlet.
Measured fuel flow with both the tail and the mains on the ground (don't know
what angle that represents) was 2 1/2 times maximum full throttle fuel consumption.
Questions:
Has anyone on the list experienced similar problems with the 0-300?
Is anyone flying a T-wind with the 0-300 WITHOUT fuel pump assist?
Does it seem likely that a wooden prop would stop windmilling that quickly with
the plane going 95 mph in a nose-high attitude?
The engine turned over freely post-crash. If the engine did seize in flight,
is it likely that it would unseize after the forced landing?
Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Roger
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| Subject: | Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight |
and some related fuel questions
Hi my tailwind had a loss of power at full throttle on take off reduce power and
it would run fine . the problem was a small bit of grit was under the main jet
and at full power it would suck up in to the jet and the mixture would go extreme
lean and the engine would quit ! back off on the power the grit would drop
out and it would run ok . i could tell you it took a lot of looking to find
this little bit of grit Bob Danner
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and
some related fuel questions
Fellow Listers
On its maiden flight, a Canadian-registered tricycle T-wind experienced an engine
stoppage shortly after take off and ended up on its back after a forced landing
in a soybean field. Test pilot had only minor scratches, but the plane
is close to being a write-off. Fuselage is in fairly good shape, and one wing
seems totally undamaged. Nose gear broke off and caused major damage to the other
wing. The dyna-focal engine mount hardly deformed at all and in fact broke
the attachment points off the motor case.
The owner is in the process of tearing down the engine but is already wondering
if fuel starvation may have played a role. The engine ran perfectly throughout
the take-off and only experienced problems as the test pilot pulled it into
a steep climb. He claims the engine ran rough for a few seconds and then stopped.
The wooden prop stopped windmilling almost immediately. Re-starting apparently
involved taking both hands off the stick--which he decided not to do at
150 feet off the runway. The pre-flight dipped fuel reading indicated about 3/4
full tank. I don't know how much head there was between the fuel tank outlet
and carb inlet.
Measured fuel flow with both the tail and the mains on the ground (don't know
what angle that represents) was 2 1/2 times maximum full throttle fuel consumption.
Questions:
Has anyone on the list experienced similar problems with the 0-300?
Is anyone flying a T-wind with the 0-300 WITHOUT fuel pump assist?
Does it seem likely that a wooden prop would stop windmilling that quickly with
the plane going 95 mph in a nose-high attitude?
The engine turned over freely post-crash. If the engine did seize in flight,
is it likely that it would unseize after the forced landing?
Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Roger
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight |
and some related fuel questions
Rogers:
I don't know of any O300 powered Tailwinds that have experienced the exact problems
you tell us of.
Few, if any O300 powered anythings are equipped with a fuel pump. By far most of
these engines would have been on C172s, which had no fuel pump.
I doubt anyone on this group can put their finger on a Tailwind that has had an
O300 with a fuel pump, although there are one or two members who are obsessed
with such details that may know of one.
The wooden prop provides far less flywheel than a metal one, and will therefore
stop windmilling at a higher speed. Likely the pilot slowed down when he had
difficulty, stopping the prop.
It is possible for an aircooled engine to seize when overheated, then unseize when
cool. This will likely be a piston to cylinder wall seizure and there will
be evidence of this on the cylinder walls. If the crank main bearings or big
end connecting rod bearings seized, the engine will likely stay seized.
We hate to hear of a Tailwind crashing, but we're glad the pilot escaped serious
injury.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:32 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Crash landing on Canadian Tailwind's maiden flight and
some related fuel questions
Fellow Listers
On its maiden flight, a Canadian-registered tricycle T-wind experienced an engine
stoppage shortly after take off and ended up on its back after a forced landing
in a soybean field. Test pilot had only minor scratches, but the plane
is close to being a write-off. Fuselage is in fairly good shape, and one wing
seems totally undamaged. Nose gear broke off and caused major damage to the other
wing. The dyna-focal engine mount hardly deformed at all and in fact broke
the attachment points off the motor case.
The owner is in the process of tearing down the engine but is already wondering
if fuel starvation may have played a role. The engine ran perfectly throughout
the take-off and only experienced problems as the test pilot pulled it into
a steep climb. He claims the engine ran rough for a few seconds and then stopped.
The wooden prop stopped windmilling almost immediately. Re-starting apparently
involved taking both hands off the stick--which he decided not to do at
150 feet off the runway. The pre-flight dipped fuel reading indicated about 3/4
full tank. I don't know how much head there was between the fuel tank outlet
and carb inlet.
Measured fuel flow with both the tail and the mains on the ground (don't know
what angle that represents) was 2 1/2 times maximum full throttle fuel consumption.
Questions:
Has anyone on the list experienced similar problems with the 0-300?
Is anyone flying a T-wind with the 0-300 WITHOUT fuel pump assist?
Does it seem likely that a wooden prop would stop windmilling that quickly with
the plane going 95 mph in a nose-high attitude?
The engine turned over freely post-crash. If the engine did seize in flight,
is it likely that it would unseize after the forced landing?
Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Roger
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Message 6
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Sorry that you won't be there Rick, sorrier to hear of the breakup.
We will see you next year with the O&O.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <rcaviate@infionline.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Therapy
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Rick" <rcaviate@infionline.net>
>
> John: Thanks, not going to be able to make it this year. Ashamed to fly
the
> 172 up there and too old to ride the motorcycle that far.
> Rick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 1:43 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Therapy
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >
> > Rick; It sounds like with your recent happenstance, that you need
alittle
> > Baraboo therapy, hope to see you there. JohnD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: w-10
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>
> Jim; I hope you don't have the floor in, before I can get there this
week.
> I think I need to see the placement of brake lines, battery cables and
other
> wiring. I have plowed so much new ground on this project, that i'm in
> danger of dying of old age, changing things, woking towards completion.
> Don't Archive. Farmer John
>
>
Watch out for that Chinese food.......
>
>
Message 8
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Rick" <rcaviate@infionline.net>
Red: Thanks for your kind words, they are much appreciated. Hope to meet up
with you guys soon, hopefully in a screamin' fast yellow airplane.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Therapy
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
>
> Sorry that you won't be there Rick, sorrier to hear of the breakup.
> We will see you next year with the O&O.
> Red
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick" <rcaviate@infionline.net>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Therapy
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Rick" <rcaviate@infionline.net>
> >
> > John: Thanks, not going to be able to make it this year. Ashamed to fly
> the
> > 172 up there and too old to ride the motorcycle that far.
> > Rick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> > To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 1:43 PM
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: Therapy
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> > >
> > > Rick; It sounds like with your recent happenstance, that you need
> alittle
> > > Baraboo therapy, hope to see you there. JohnD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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