Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (William Bernard)
2. 05:29 AM - door edges (Paul Holmes)
3. 07:10 AM - Re: wing fitting (Dave Conrad)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: wing fitting (Alex Frizzell)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: wing fitting (von Allmen Guido)
6. 09:45 AM - Re: wing fitting (Ruhnke, Mike)
7. 11:32 AM - Picture of Red's MSC Pins (George Turner)
8. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: 70P (Fred Weaver)
9. 11:46 AM - Re: wing fitting (Fred Weaver)
10. 12:50 PM - Re: wing fitting (mike_tailwind@att.net)
11. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: 70P (DaveM)
12. 01:21 PM - Re: wing fitting (Ruhnke, Mike)
13. 02:30 PM - Re: wing fitting (Louis Owen)
14. 05:23 PM - Wing fitting (Earl Luce)
15. 07:22 PM - Re: Wing fitting (Richard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
Red, could you attach a photo of the installation?
Thanks
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
>
> Rich,
> Not yet, should have numbers after the week end.
> Red
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Red ....... What dB reduction did you get with the
> > vibration isolators from MSC? Rich
> >
> >
> > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: red
> > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:41 PM
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> > >
> > >
> > > Tailwinders,
> > > I got some vibration isolators from MSC that I put
> > > between the diagonal tubes and the windshield and it
> > > cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are 62187315 and
> > > 62006192, you need two of the first and four of the
> > > second. They are adjustable and cost 1.17ea for the
> > > first and 1.53 each for the second. You have to take
> > > the threaded washer out of one end of each of the
> > > four to expose rubber so that it "sticks" to the
> > > tube and does not hurt the windshield.
> > > Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last night.
> > > Red Hamilton
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > Co-Director
> > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > 1900 South Avenue
> > La Crosse, WI 54601
> > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> > rjrellis@yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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Does anyone have pics of door skin edges on the top back and bottom of the door?
Does it just overlap or is there some other treatment to protect the edge of
the .025.
On another subject, when glassing the wings do you use ceconite tape on the leading
edge and other seams?
Paul Holmes
pholmes@wmis.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wing fitting |
Earl, Just to cover all bases you might want to suggest a radius for
the bends on the inside piece. Otherwise very nice. Dave Conrad
On Wednesday, August 11, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Earl Luce wrote:
> Hi gang ,
>=A0=A0 Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual
> for the buttercup . It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do
> all the parts this way . Any suggestions ?
> Earl Luce
>
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
> <wing attachment.jpg>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wing fitting |
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:28:00 -0500
Earl, leave off the lower dimension, it's confusing. I am assuming all other dimensions
are as "per w-8 plans?"
Looks good though. Perspective drawings are always better to understand for the
novice blueprint reader as opposed to the conventional three sided drawings.
Keep'em coming.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:06 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this
way . Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wing fitting |
Some articles in experimenter show non aligned holes which I think
distribute better the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick
Crosslin did it this way on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some
improvement. Thanks to everybody for the nice pictures of Baraboo and
Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the
buttercup . It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts
this way . Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Message 6
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The holes in the bracket on a W-8 are staggerd (I can see the hole pattern in the
additional photos included with my plan set. Mine are serial #1137). The holes
in the W-10 are in-line. I assumed since the W-10 is the more recent it
is the "best practice"?
Mike
NW Illinois
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of von Allmen Guido
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Some articles in experimenter show non aligned holes which I think distribute better
the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick Crosslin did it this
way on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some improvement. Thanks to everybody
for the nice pictures of Baraboo and Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way
. Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | Picture of Red's MSC Pins |
Here is the MSC website, put the pin number in search box. See example:
http://www.mscdirect.com/mscProductSearch.process?RestartFlow=t&RowsPerPage=15&searchmanufpartno=&dispmanufpartno=&operator=AND&QuickFlag=1&Merchant_Id=1&query=62187315&search_cat=5&x=10&y=9
.....George
red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: red
Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
Tailwinders,
I got some vibration isolators from MSC that I put between the diagonal tubes and
the windshield and it cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are 62187315 and
62006192, you need two of the first and four of the second. They are adjustable
and cost 1.17ea for the first and 1.53 each for the second. You have to take
the threaded washer out of one end of each of the four to expose rubber so that
it "sticks" to the tube and does not hurt the windshield.
Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last night.
Red Hamilton
---------------------------------
Message 8
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Too much up elevator on takeoff.... Lou also had two props, one for climb
and one for cruising. He was always a little too squimish about the climb
rate. BUT, I flew the plane about 20 hours and never ever had any problem
taking off or climbing. However, when Lou bought the airplane, the first
thing he did was screw up the landing gear on a landing in Cottage Grove,
Oregon and when he did that, he also wiped out the original prop. It was
wood....no engine damage. Anyway, he never quite got the hang of the
airplane and consequently, he quit even trying to fly it. Ego was also a
factor with Lou, he didn't want anyone else to fly it unless they bought it
and flew it away. He wasn't very forthcoming with his real thoughts of the
airplane when he was trying to sell it either. I'm very glad no innocent
customer got hurt. Lou should have let a competent "Tailwind Pilot" fly it
out of that location. That way, it would have been checked at runup for
adequate RRM and power. The engine was a very good Cont 0-300D that was
meticulously rebuilt by the original airframe builder. The Logs were clean
and loaded with the right tags.
Bottom line.... The airplane has to have flying speed so it will climb. If
you constantly hold too much up, it will mush along trying to fly and keep
boinking off the runway. Especially if he had the cruise prop mounted so the
airspeed would look better to a prospective customer.
My opinion only.....
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Youngquist" <dpy@sdf.lonestar.org>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: 70P
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Dan Youngquist <dpy@sdf.lonestar.org>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday at the airport I ran into some folks who are based at Whidbey
> Air Park, where Lou Hagler crashed his W10 on 8/1. They didn't see it
> happen, but a pilot friend did. She said the engine appeared to be
> running fine, but the plane stalled & mushed down twice on climbout before
> it hit the tree and crashed. Seems like he was going way too slow, the
> big question is why. Anyone else know any more details?
>
> -Dan
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: wing fitting |
Bend radii??
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Earl, it appears to me that the 1.43 dimension is different from the top to the
bottom. The bottom appears to be from the center of the hole out to whereever
and the top dimension seems to be from outer edge of the fitting to the flat
surface that is 90 degrees to the attach fittings.
It is late and maybe my eyes are crooked !
I agree that bigger/darker arrow ends and numbers would be great. The drawing
style, look, coloring is fantastic!
Larry H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:06 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the
buttercup . It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this
way . Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
Message 10
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I staggered the holes in my W-10. I staggerd the holes a little over a bolt width
(I didn't want to get close to the edge of the spar). This is the accepted
standard practice (AC43-13). However, I don't know of any problems with doing
it per the plans.
While we are on the subject of standard practices, if I were to make another wing
I would extend the 3/16 ply doublers for the lift strut (this would require
making two special ribs with wider spar openings). I would then taper (feather)
the thickness of the ply doubler at each end. The purpose of this is to prevent
splitting of the spar due to expansion and contraction from mositure changes.
Like I said, I didn't do this and wouldn't worry about it, but if I were
starting from scratch I would.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" : --------------
The holes in the bracket on a W-8 are staggerd (I can see the hole pattern in the
additional photos included with my plan set. Mine are serial #1137). The holes
in the W-10 are in-line. I assumed since the W-10 is the more recent it
is the "best practice"?
Mike
NW Illinois
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of von Allmen Guido
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Some articles in experimenter show non aligned holes which I think distribute better
the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick Crosslin did it this
way on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some improvement. Thanks to everybody
for the nice pictures of Baraboo and Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way
. Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<style type='text/css'>
p {
margin: 0px;
}
</style>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
I staggered the holes in my W-10. I staggerd the holes a little over a bolt width
(I didn't want to get close to the edge of the spar). This is the accepted
standard practice (AC43-13). However, I don't know of any problems with doing
it per the plans.
While we are on the subject of standard practices, if I were to make another wing
I would extend the 3/16 ply doublers for the lift strut (this would require
making two special ribs with wider spar openings). I would then taper (feather)the
thickness of the ply doubler at each end. The purpose of this is to prevent
splitting of the spar due to expansion and contraction from mositure changes.
Like I said, I didn't do this and wouldn't worry about it, but if I were starting
from scratch I would.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" <RUHNKEM@RAYOVAC.COM>: --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=GENERATOR>
The holes in the bracket on a W-8 are staggerd (I can see the hole pattern in the
additional photos included with my plan set. Mine are serial #1137). The holes
in the W-10 are in-line. I assumed since the W-10 is the more recent it is
the "best practice"?
Mike
NW Illinois
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of von Allmen Guido
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Some articles in experimenter show non aligned holes which I think distribute better
the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick Crosslin did it this way
on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some improvement. Thanks to everybody
for the nice pictures of Baraboo and Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" luceair@frontiernet.net
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way .
Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 11
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "DaveM" <dmagaw@att.net>
My experience with the W-8 and now the W-10 confirms what Fred says about
getting enough airspeed to climb, particularly on hot days with a passenger
and/or baggage. My W-8 has more of a climb prop, and likes to climb at
100-110 MPH (best rate), and the W-10 likes 120 MPH. They will get off the
ground at 75-80, but climb rate sucks until you get more air-speed. From
what little I know, this is one area where the RV airfoil might be a little
better--they seem to climb better at somewhat slower speeds.
Dave
N168A
N202Q
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
<Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
....................
> Bottom line.... The airplane has to have flying speed so it will climb.
If
> you constantly hold too much up, it will mush along trying to fly and
keep
> boinking off the runway. Especially if he had the cruise prop mounted so
the
> airspeed would look better to a prospective customer.
> My opinion only.....
> Weav
Message 12
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I guess a good testiment to the strength of the existing wing connections would
be an examination of the wings on the aircraft that collapsed its landing gear
recently. It appeared from the posted photo that the airframe received a signigficant
"G" loading in the direction of the wing strut.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of mike_tailwind@att.net
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
I staggered the holes in my W-10. I staggerd the holes a little over a bolt width
(I didn't want to get close to the edge of the spar). This is the accepted
standard practice (AC43-13). However, I don't know of any problems with doing
it per the plans.
While we are on the subject of standard practices, if I were to make another wing
I would extend the 3/16 ply doublers for the lift strut (this would require
making two special ribs with wider spar openings). I would then taper (feather)
the thickness of the ply doubler at each end. The purpose of this is to prevent
splitting of the spar due to expansion and contraction from mositure changes.
Like I said, I didn't do this and wouldn't worry about it, but if I were
starting from scratch I would.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" : --------------
The holes in the bracket on a W-8 are staggerd (I can see the hole pattern in the
additional photos included with my plan set. Mine are serial #1137). The holes
in the W-10 are in-line. I assumed since the W-10 is the more recent it
is the "best practice"?
Mike
NW Illinois
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of von Allmen Guido
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Some articles in experimenter show non aligned holes which I think distribute better
the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick Crosslin did it this
way on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some improvement. Thanks to everybody
for the nice pictures of Baraboo and Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way
. Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: wing fitting |
For information on possible wing damage resulting from an accident you might want
to read the entire accident report, address below. Read both pages.
http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id20020625X00963&key1
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
I guess a good testiment to the strength of the existing wing connections would
be an examination of the wings on the aircraft that collapsed its landing gear
recently. It appeared from the posted photo that the airframe received a
signigficant "G" loading in the direction of the wing strut.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of mike_tailwind@att.net
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:47 PM
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
I staggered the holes in my W-10. I staggerd the holes a little over a bolt
width (I didn't want to get close to the edge of the spar). This is the accepted
standard practice (AC43-13). However, I don't know of any problems with
doing it per the plans.
While we are on the subject of standard practices, if I were to make another
wing I would extend the 3/16 ply doublers for the lift strut (this would require
making two special ribs with wider spar openings). I would then taper (feather)
the thickness of the ply doubler at each end. The purpose of this is
to prevent splitting of the spar due to expansion and contraction from mositure
changes. Like I said, I didn't do this and wouldn't worry about it, but if
I were starting from scratch I would.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" : --------------
The holes in the bracket on a W-8 are staggerd (I can see the hole pattern
in the additional photos included with my plan set. Mine are serial #1137).
The holes in the W-10 are in-line. I assumed since the W-10 is the more recent
it is the "best practice"?
Mike
NW Illinois
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of von Allmen Guido
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 11:15 AM
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Some articles in experimenter show non aligned holes which I think distribute
better the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick Crosslin did
it this way on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some improvement. Thanks
to everybody for the nice pictures of Baraboo and Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 23:06:41 -0400
To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for
the buttercup . It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts
this way . Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
Message 14
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Thanks for all the input on the wing fitting . I'm learning a new CAD program (
Solid Works ) and thought it would be neat to share with the group . As far
as the bending radious it is what ever my hammer smashed over my vise is . I make
the in 2 pieces after I drill the hole ........put in a spacer and weld the
seem . They always come out perfect !
Earl Luce
Buttercup & Tailwind
---
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wing fitting |
Earl:
Nicole thought it was "pretty"
rich
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: Tailwind List
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:23 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Wing fitting
Thanks for all the input on the wing fitting . I'm learning a new CAD program
( Solid Works ) and thought it would be neat to share with the group . As far
as the bending radious it is what ever my hammer smashed over my vise is . I
make the in 2 pieces after I drill the hole ........put in a spacer and weld
the seem . They always come out perfect !
Earl Luce
Buttercup & Tailwind
---
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
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