Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:19 AM - Re: ailerons and flaps (William Bernard)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: Fuel level gauge sender attachment flange (Eric Schlanser)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: wing fitting (Ruhnke, Mike)
4. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: 70P (GORDON PARKER)
5. 03:29 PM - Re: ailerons and flaps (Richard)
6. 04:32 PM - Re: wing fitting (Jack Steele)
7. 10:36 PM - Re: Re: 70P (Fred Weaver)
8. 11:00 PM - Re: Re: 70P (GORDON PARKER)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ailerons and flaps |
Richard, I seem to remember reading somewhere that flaps and ailerons using a troque
tube should stick up a bit behind the wing. Its supposed to result in lower
drag.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 1:56 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: ailerons and flaps
I just finished putting the aileron and flap ass'y after closing the wing...and
found it doesn't line up.
The top of the surfaces projects in excess of 1/8" above the upper skin. (I
was just getting ready to feel good about my progress)
Other questions:
1) I used bondo to fill the rivet holes in the aileron and flap. Can I use
metal prep and alodine as a conversion coating before priming, or will it attack
the bondo?
I don't think that you have anything to worry about with the bondo. The etch
shouldn't disturb it.
2) Should I use some kind of sandable primer or just epoxy prime and go... (nothing
is going to make these totally smooth...I used .020 aluminum and got plenty
of green horn beauty marks)
For what it's worth, I'd suggest the epoxy primer. Sanding thin aluminum that's
largely unsupported is likely to be an exercise in frustration.
4) Is everyone using #6-32 screws to attach their windshields? How big of a
hole do you drilling in the polycarbonate? (I plan on measuring the diameter
of the countersink on the washer and going about 1/32 larger than that)
I drilled 3/16 inch holes in the plexiglass for the #6-32 screws. Works fine,
so far
Bill
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel level gauge sender attachment flange |
Malcolm,
So, you install it per the mounting instructions included with the sender. Riveting
the mounting flange would not only make it easier to install but also make
it easier to remove the sender if needed for sevice or replacement. I have
no other access panel built into my tank. If one of the five mounting screws were
to fall inside upon attempting to remove the sender, I would have to invert
the plane and shake it out the sender hole.
Thanks for the feedback, Eric
Lovelace <mlovelace@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Eric,
I just slip it inside the tank and hold it with one screw until I start one throught
the sending unit. If you flush rivet it make it easier to install.
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Schlanser
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Fuel level gauge sender attachment flange
Malcolm,
Do you flush rivet the flange to the inside of the sender hole like Jim C does?
Eric
Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
Eric,
I use the bolt on with no problem. It has a gasket, saves time in welding
the flange on.
Malcolm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Schlanser [SMTP:eschlanser@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 8:13 AM
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Fuel level gauge sender attachment flange
>
> The fuel level gauge sender attachment flange
> attaches the sender to the top of the fuel tank. The flange is flat, 2.5
> inches in diameter and has 5 bolt holes in a pattern that matches the five
> holes in the plate at the top of the sender. VDO offers both a bolt-on and
> a weld-on attachment flange with their sender. The sender I bought and the
> sender Wicksaircraft sells has t he ns:
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 3
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The stuff I bought cost $118 a sheet and aircraft spruce called it "Aircraft Plywood"
(90 degree Mahogany). I used it to skin my wings and I used to to fab
all my wing rib gussets. Even if I went to 1/8 thickness the most plys avaiable
in from Aircraft Spruce would be 3. Additionally I used Resorcinol glue to
hold the ribs together. I used a screw type clamp to apply pressure to the
gussets while the glue set. The skins are held on with FPL-16A (two part epoxy).
Five coats of spar varnish was applied to 100% of the interior surfaces.
Should I shit can my wings and start again?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Conrad
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Wing skin is not doubler material. Dave
On Friday, August 13, 2004, at 09:33 AM, Ruhnke, Mike wrote:
Oh, rest assured I glued the dog pi** out of it. It was suggested that the plans
should have called for 1/16 ply. I had a bunch of left over 3/32 from my wings
so... If it had been noted on the plans I would have installed it right
off, a ten minute job. To install it afterward took 24 man hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Conrad
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
I've always used 1/8" 5 ply aircraft plywood for Doublers. Make sure you have 100%
glue coverage on both surfaces also. For the small price of aircraft ply why
would you not use it? Dave Conrad
On Friday, August 13, 2004, at 07:58 AM, Ruhnke, Mike wrote:
This is such an important subject I feel I have to continue the discussion. My
project is very close to completion. Its a two seater and I feel WE owe it to
our passengers to do whatever we have to to insure our wings stay attached.
Had it not been for this list my Tailwind would have gone into service without
plywood doublers at the root connection. I have since added the doublers, 3/32
thick, with what I felt was the best grain orientation to prevent splitting
of the main spars grain. The doublers are of three ply construction, two mahaugany
layers and one birch layer. The birch layer is the thickest. Therefore
I aligned the grain of the birch layer perpendicular to the grain of the main
spar.
Recently, I tested a scrap piece of main spar material I had laying in my basement.
I drilled one hole in it two inches from the end. I inserted one bolt in
the hole and suspended myself from the ceiling of my basement by a cable attached
to that one bolt. I detected no noticable compression of the wood where
the bolt delevered the load. Then I took a hammer and proceeded to bash the
bolt toward what would be the inboard direction to see if I could get the spar
to split. The spar did not split. The bolt bent. This test didn't include
plywood doubler. A crude test. But at least a test.
There are a lot of wooden aircraft out there. Not many of them fly as fast as
a Tailwind.
The report you included below was sickenly similar to one I have read before.
The last one blamed the quailty of the drilled holes in the root connection.
Poor quality holes or a sight mis-alingment of strut and strut bracket sould not
be accepted as big enough mistakes to say poor craftsman ship was too blame.
IS THIS WING CONNECTION SAFE? I'M NOT QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THAT. IS THERE ANYONE
ON THIS LIST WILLING OR SOMEONE WHO KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT AIRCRAFT DESIGN TO
STEP FORWARD WITH REAL DATA OR A METHOD TO TEST THE CONNECTION.
Had it not been for Lou Owen's link. I would never have heard about N14VK. Bob
was just flying along and his wing fell off.
Mike Ruhnke, NW Illinois
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Louis Owen
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
For information on possible wing damage resulting from an accident you might want
to read the entire accident report, address below. Read both pages.
http://www2.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id20020625X00963&key1
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
I guess a good testiment to the strength of the existing wing connections would
be an examination of the wings on the aircraft that collapsed its landing gear
recently. It appeared from the posted photo that the airframe received a signigficant
"G" loading in the direction of the wing strut.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of mike_tailwind@att.net
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
I staggered the holes in my W-10. I staggerd the holes a little over a bolt width
(I didn't want to get close to the edge of the spar). This is the accepted
standard practice (AC43-13). However, I don't know of any problems with doing
it per the plans.
While we are on the subject of standard practices, if I were to make another wing
I would extend the 3/16 ply doublers for the lift strut (this would require
making two special ribs with wider spar openings). I would then taper (feather)
the thickness of the ply doubler at each end. The purpose of this is to prevent
splitting of the spar due to expansion and contraction from mositure changes.
Like I said, I didn't do this and wouldn't worry about it, but if I were
starting from scratch I would.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" : --------------
The holes in the bracket on a W-8 are staggerd (I can see the hole pattern in the
additional photos included with my plan set. Mine are serial #1137). The holes
in the W-10 are in-line. I assumed since the W-10 is the more recent it
is the "best practice"?
Mike
NW Illinois
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of von Allmen Guido
Subject: Re: experimenter show non aligned holes which I think distribute better
the forces on the spar and if I am not wrong Rick Crosslin did it this way
on his W 10 and O-O . Wouldn't this give some improvement. Thanks to everybody
for the nice pictures of Baraboo and Oshkosh.
Guido
From: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way
. Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Message 4
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Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:27:15 -0700
Weav--About 70P--Our resident AI here was a good friend of the Gentleman with
70P In fact he said that he had talked with him about 45 min before the wreck.
He said basically the same thing you said about his flying the TW. Also
said he was building a Stolp Starduster with the russian M14 and was currently
doing the wireing. I had talked with him a while before I met you and he
had sent me a picture of 70P. Buy the way Weav-- is that a 196 in the picture
or the new latest. I sure like my 196. and yah I am getting some flying
in .. In June we Took it to So Calif. At Arlington, got a nice workmanship
(custom Built.) Of course Behind Red and Dave . So Should I take a picture of
the award and send it to Konicek? We had airport day here 10 days ago and got
25 bucks for best homebuilt. Flew to Medfore 3 weeks ago and brought my 11 yr
old grandson for a week and then took him Back. Also plan on a trip to northwest
Montana soon. Gordon-9168Q
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: ailerons and flaps |
Thanks for the responses! Back out to the garage...
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: ailerons and flaps
The hinges are 1/8" above the lower wing skin.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 2:56 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: ailerons and flaps
I just finished putting the aileron and flap ass'y after closing the wing...and
found it doesn't line up.
The top of the surfaces projects in excess of 1/8" above the upper skin. (I
was just getting ready to feel good about my progress)
Here is what I plan on doing...please say something if you see an easier way,
etc.
*plug holes and countersinks with wood plugs and liberal filled epoxy (not
a political statement)
*make a jig out of large chunk o'steel to guide drill bit
*mark new location, attach jig with sheetrock screws
*drill new holes.
*countersink new holes
*see what new problem I created.
Other questions:
1) I used bondo to fill the rivet holes in the aileron and flap. Can I use
metal prep and alodine as a conversion coating before priming, or will it attack
the bondo?
2) Should I use some kind of sandable primer or just epoxy prime and go...
(nothing is going to make these totally smooth...I used .020 aluminum and got
plenty of green horn beauty marks)
3) Turning the aileron tube, I get stick-slip instead of smooth motion. I
used bearing grease. Should I polish the torque tube more? Use gear oil for bearing
lubricant? Or does it smooth out when connected to the rest of the system?
4) Is everyone using #6-32 screws to attach their windshields? How big of
a hole do you drilling in the polycarbonate? (I plan on measuring the diameter
of the countersink on the washer and going about 1/32 larger than that)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing fitting |
Mke, nothing wrong with FPL 16. I used it on my wings 27 years ago and still
flying.
Jack Steele
Message 7
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Great news about your flying and award. Yeah, Lou had been working on that Starduster
project for years. Not sure what pic you are referring to about the 196.
But I only have a 196, not the 296 like some of the other guys. Until I get
the Grand Rapids EFIS installed, it will be the only moving map I have. Glad to
know you are finally getting some good flying in. Keep it up....
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: GORDON PARKER
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: 70P
Weav--About 70P--Our resident AI here was a good friend of the Gentleman with
70P In fact he said that he had talked with him about 45 min before the
wreck. He said basically the same thing you said about his flying the TW.
Also said he was building a Stolp Starduster with the russian M14 and was currently
doing the wireing. I had talked with him a while before I met you and
he had sent me a picture of 70P. Buy the way Weav-- is that a 196 in the picture
or the new latest. I sure like my 196. and yah I am getting some flying
in .. In June we Took it to So Calif. At Arlington, got a nice workmanship
(custom Built.) Of course Behind Red and Dave . So Should I take a picture
of the award and send it to Konicek? We had airport day here 10 days ago and got
25 bucks for best homebuilt. Flew to Medfore 3 weeks ago and brought my 11
yr old grandson for a week and then took him Back. Also plan on a trip to northwest
Montana soon. Gordon-9168Q
Message 8
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Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:00:09 -0700
----- Weav. Larry took some shots. of your TW when you had it Jim's hanger
in Baraboo. Couple of good shots of your panel and the 196 on top. Yah I sure
like mine-- Gordon
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