Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: wing fitting (Ruhnke, Mike)
2. 04:35 AM - Re: wing fitting (Ruhnke, Mike)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: [TailwindForum] California Fly in (DaveM)
4. 10:36 AM - Props for O320 engines and performance ? (Thomas Barnes)
5. 12:54 PM - Re: Props for O320 engines and performance ? (Rick)
6. 06:20 PM - WTB: Tailwind (Dan Youngquist)
7. 07:07 PM - Re: Props for O320 engines and performance ? (Jim and Donna Clement)
8. 07:58 PM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (red)
9. 08:10 PM - windshield vibration/noise (Louis Owen)
10. 08:13 PM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (Rich Ellis)
11. 08:44 PM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (red)
12. 09:09 PM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (red)
Message 1
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I prefer IronCad. Much easier to use and especially easier to learn.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Earl Luce
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Mel ,
Yes on Solid Works . I am trying to get both the Tailwind and Buttercup on
it .
Earl L
----- Original Message -----
From: Mel Lewis <mailto:mell@r-quest.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi Earl,
Was that drawing done with SolidWorks?
-Mel-
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce <mailto:luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way
. Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Message 2
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Oh, forgot. You can download a 60 day demo copy from www.ironcad.com for free.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Earl Luce
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Mel ,
Yes on Solid Works . I am trying to get both the Tailwind and Buttercup on
it .
Earl L
----- Original Message -----
From: Mel Lewis <mailto:mell@r-quest.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi Earl,
Was that drawing done with SolidWorks?
-Mel-
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce <mailto:luceair@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: wing fitting
Hi gang ,
Take a look at thae wing fitting that I'm drawing for my manual for the buttercup
. It is the same as the Tailwind . I'm going to do all the parts this way
. Any suggestions ?
Earl Luce
---
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: [TailwindForum] California Fly in |
I think that is great. Just about any Saturday or Sunday in October would be best
at this time. However, I know Red Hamilton is tied up with a EAA chapt 25
(Vintage) flyin at his airport in Ft. Bragg on Oct 9. I may have to leave on
a comercial flight for Texas on Oct 24.
Let me know if I can help in any way, Fresno is only an hour away from Yolo Co.
by tailwind.
Dave
N168A
N202Q
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck and Nancy Riley
To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] California Fly in
To all Tailwind flyers. Bill Newkirk and I are willing to host a Tailwind
Fly-in here at my hanger A-6 Fresno Chandler Airport Fresno, CA. Talk it up
as to date that would be good for all. Would need to know how many may need
motel accommodations etc. I have plenty of parking space for all and I
think we could even get good press coverage.
Anyway you all think about it and let Bill and I know.
Thanks
Chuck Riley
4772 NO. Fruit Ave.
Fresno, CA 93705
559-224-8841
559-696-5053 cell
Message 4
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| Subject: | Props for O320 engines and performance ? |
08/18/2004 11:36:25
Hi all,
I'm the very pleased new owner (as of March of this year) of Rick
Crosslin's W10. It truly is a beautiful work of craftmanship and art.
Thanks for creating such a beautiful, fast airplane, Rick !
Anyway - I am curious about the different props y'all are using on your
O320 powered W10's out there, and what your RPMs are for various phases of
operation (as well as the conditions like temp, altitude,) for things like
Static RPM, Clim RPM @ ? airspeed, and various measurements of Cruising
airspeed at 'X' altitude.
The Felix 68DX74P prop on N393RC is a great cruising prop, is smooth and
quiet, but only turns about 2130 or so Static on a 60 degree F day.
Just wondering if perhaps there is another make/model out there that may
give more T/O performance (for some of the short fields here in NC) while
retaining the good cruise speed of the Felix.
Look forward to hearing about the various combinations of out there...
Thanks,
Thomas
PS - I *did* search thru the archives and didn't find much on this
subject... coulda missed it though...)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Props for O320 engines and performance ? |
Thomas: Thanks for you kind words regarding 393RC, she's a very well designed,
well built ship. In selecting the prop on 3RC, I was unaware that the guys that
are going really fast in Tailwinds are turning their Lycs over speed, this is
a perfectly acceptable condition, and had I known it I would have ordered, say,
a 70x70, or some such. Jim Clement of this site has done a great deal of testing
of props, and can steer you in the right direction, I personally wouldn't
listen to anybody else. You're probably cruising at 2500-2550 rpm which should
yeild 185-190 mph at 8.5 gals/hr kinda depending. Jim will tell you the finer
pitch prop will burn no more fuel (lower mp) running 2600-2650 or so, yeild
the same cruise spd, and when you want to turn the wick up she'll turn 2800
or better and go like hell. Be ready for a fuel burn of gosh awful if you want
to run her flat out at those kind of rpms, but what the hell, I can think of
more expensive highs.
Glad you're enjoying 3RC, when I get the O-O done I'll be happy to outrun you some
day! (laugh)!
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Props for O320 engines and performance ?
Hi all,
I'm the very pleased new owner (as of March of this year) of Rick Crosslin's
W10. It truly is a beautiful work of craftmanship and art. Thanks for creating
such a beautiful, fast airplane, Rick !
Anyway - I am curious about the different props y'all are using on your O320
powered W10's out there, and what your RPMs are for various phases of operation
(as well as the conditions like temp, altitude,) for things like Static RPM,
Clim RPM @ ? airspeed, and various measurements of Cruising airspeed at 'X' altitude.
The Felix 68DX74P prop on N393RC is a great cruising prop, is smooth and quiet,
but only turns about 2130 or so Static on a 60 degree F day. Just wondering
if perhaps there is another make/model out there that may give more T/O performance
(for some of the short fields here in NC) while retaining the good cruise
speed of the Felix.
Look forward to hearing about the various combinations of out there...
Thanks,
Thomas
PS - I *did* search thru the archives and didn't find much on this subject...
coulda missed it though...)
Message 6
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Dan Youngquist <dpy@sdf.lonestar.org>
Hi all,
I'm still looking for an airplane. If anyone knows of a low to mid priced
Tailwind for sale, please let me know. Prefer a W10, but I'll buy a W8 if
a suitable W10 doesn't turn up. I'd also consider a BD-4. Doesn't have
to be pretty, just airworthy and at least a couple hundred hours left in
the engine. Mainly looking for a flying airplane, not a project, due to
time constraints.
-Dan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Props for O320 engines and performance ? |
Thomas, In reply to your post and Ricks comments, this is what works best for
me.
You need 2300 rpm static, anything less kills takeoff performance, especially in
the summer. This should give you a top speed of about 200 mph at 2750- 2800
rpm, 2000 feet msl. At 10,000 feet It should turn about 2650 or maybe a little
more and true out at 195 - 200 mph. Back the throttle off 50 rpm and fuel burn
will be 7.5 gph. and still cruise at185 - 190 mph
The prop you have is the right pitch but is to fat, the blade needs to be thinned
out and the chord narrowed some to pick up the rpm. It's hard to talk some
of the prop makers into making the blades thinner. Call Fred Felix and see if
he can pick up 170 rpm. It's easier to get more rpm than to get rid of it.
Ed Sterba also makes props, some of the RV props he has made look pretty good as
far as blade shape and thickness.
Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Props for O320 engines and performance ?
Hi all,
I'm the very pleased new owner (as of March of this year) of Rick Crosslin's
W10. It truly is a beautiful work of craftmanship and art. Thanks for creating
such a beautiful, fast airplane, Rick !
Anyway - I am curious about the different props y'all are using on your O320
powered W10's out there, and what your RPMs are for various phases of operation
(as well as the conditions like temp, altitude,) for things like Static RPM,
Clim RPM @ ? airspeed, and various measurements of Cruising airspeed at 'X' altitude.
The Felix 68DX74P prop on N393RC is a great cruising prop, is smooth and quiet,
but only turns about 2130 or so Static on a 60 degree F day. Just wondering
if perhaps there is another make/model out there that may give more T/O performance
(for some of the short fields here in NC) while retaining the good cruise
speed of the Felix.
Look forward to hearing about the various combinations of out there...
Thanks,
Thomas
PS - I *did* search thru the archives and didn't find much on this subject...
coulda missed it though...)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Rich,
Well I guess now that I have measured it I would have to say that the noise
reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the Db meter knows, it makes no
difference. It still seems quieter, the windshield is noticeably vibrating
less.
I'll try to get a photo sent of the install soon.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
>
> Red ....... What dB reduction did you get with the
> vibration isolators from MSC? Rich
>
>
> --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: red
> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:41 PM
> > Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> >
> >
> > Tailwinders,
> > I got some vibration isolators from MSC that I put
> > between the diagonal tubes and the windshield and it
> > cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are 62187315 and
> > 62006192, you need two of the first and four of the
> > second. They are adjustable and cost 1.17ea for the
> > first and 1.53 each for the second. You have to take
> > the threaded washer out of one end of each of the
> > four to expose rubber so that it "sticks" to the
> > tube and does not hurt the windshield.
> > Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last night.
> > Red Hamilton
>
>
> =====
> Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> Co-Director
> Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> 1900 South Avenue
> La Crosse, WI 54601
> 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> rjrellis@yahoo.com
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen" <owenld@earthlink.net>
Since the subject of windshield supports has come up I'll tell a story .
When I built N6PJ I welded in supports on each side of the windshield and
put small crutch tips on the end of the tubes where they could bear on the
Plexiglas.
I always wondered how much force was exerted on the windshield at those
points but of course there wasn't much of a way to find out. One day I stuck
a piece of paper between the crutch tip and the glass and forgot about it
until upon landing the paper drifted from where I had put it when the
windshield lifted slightly from the support.
Lou
> Rich,
> Well I guess now that I have measured it I would have to say that the
noise
> reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the Db meter knows, it makes
no
> difference. It still seems quieter, the windshield is noticeably vibrating
> less.
> I'll try to get a photo sent of the install soon.
> Red
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
Red .... Appreciate your reply. Based on our
conversation it looks like your noise reduction
measures rank as follows (most reduction in cabin
noise):
1. Doors;
2. 3/16 windshield thickness;
3. Firewall;
4. Flooring;
5. Tail pipe;
6. Windshield vibration;
Before someone points out the obvious, I will mention
a good headset with ANR as a good place to start to
reduce the noise in a Tailwind.
Let me know if the order above is correct. Rich
--- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red"
> <redswings@reds-headers.com>
>
> Rich,
> Well I guess now that I have measured it I would
> have to say that the noise
> reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the Db
> meter knows, it makes no
> difference. It still seems quieter, the windshield
> is noticeably vibrating
> less.
> I'll try to get a photo sent of the install soon.
> Red
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield
> vibration/noise
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis
> <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Red ....... What dB reduction did you get with
> the
> > vibration isolators from MSC? Rich
> >
> >
> > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: red
> > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:41 PM
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield
> vibration/noise
> > >
> > >
> > > Tailwinders,
> > > I got some vibration isolators from MSC that I
> put
> > > between the diagonal tubes and the windshield
> and it
> > > cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are 62187315
> and
> > > 62006192, you need two of the first and four of
> the
> > > second. They are adjustable and cost 1.17ea for
> the
> > > first and 1.53 each for the second. You have to
> take
> > > the threaded washer out of one end of each of
> the
> > > four to expose rubber so that it "sticks" to the
> > > tube and does not hurt the windshield.
> > > Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last night.
> > > Red Hamilton
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > Co-Director
> > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > 1900 South Avenue
> > La Crosse, WI 54601
> > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> > rjrellis@yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
Gundersen Lutheran Health System
Co-Director
Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
1900 South Avenue
La Crosse, WI 54601
800.362.9567, ext. 52102
rjrellis@yahoo.com
__________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Lou,
Since they are easy to put in static on the ground and difficult to put in
or take out in the air, I would say that they do take quite a load.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Owen" <owenld@earthlink.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen" <owenld@earthlink.net>
>
> Since the subject of windshield supports has come up I'll tell a story .
> When I built N6PJ I welded in supports on each side of the windshield and
> put small crutch tips on the end of the tubes where they could bear on the
> Plexiglas.
> I always wondered how much force was exerted on the windshield at those
> points but of course there wasn't much of a way to find out. One day I
stuck
> a piece of paper between the crutch tip and the glass and forgot about it
> until upon landing the paper drifted from where I had put it when the
> windshield lifted slightly from the support.
> Lou
>
>
> > Rich,
> > Well I guess now that I have measured it I would have to say that the
> noise
> > reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the Db meter knows, it
makes
> no
> > difference. It still seems quieter, the windshield is noticeably
vibrating
> > less.
> > I'll try to get a photo sent of the install soon.
> > Red
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Rich,
I did the sound barrier and absorber at the same time and that may have been
the #1. That was and is barrier on the firewall, absorber under the floor
both baggage and foot, above the top baggage panel, on the back of the rear
baggage wall, inside the boot cowl, on most of the fuel tank. None in the
doors.
#2 would be weatherstripping around the door openings.
#3 would be the "mufflers" .
The door forward corner restraints might be #4, don't have the 3/16"
winshield yet but think that I should for safety as much as possible noise
reduction.I feel better about the safety with the supports on the diagonals
and the front spar carrythrough.
I do use good ANR headsets and foam earplugs underneath, so does Marilyn.
I am not going to mess with sound attenuation until I fabricate and install
a clamp in rear spar carrythrough as Earl Luce suggested--thanks Earl. I
have all of the pieces made, most are fit. I'll take some photos.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
>
> Red .... Appreciate your reply. Based on our
> conversation it looks like your noise reduction
> measures rank as follows (most reduction in cabin
> noise):
>
> 1. Doors;
> 2. 3/16 windshield thickness;
> 3. Firewall;
> 4. Flooring;
> 5. Tail pipe;
> 6. Windshield vibration;
>
> Before someone points out the obvious, I will mention
> a good headset with ANR as a good place to start to
> reduce the noise in a Tailwind.
>
> Let me know if the order above is correct. Rich
>
> --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red"
> > <redswings@reds-headers.com>
> >
> > Rich,
> > Well I guess now that I have measured it I would
> > have to say that the noise
> > reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the Db
> > meter knows, it makes no
> > difference. It still seems quieter, the windshield
> > is noticeably vibrating
> > less.
> > I'll try to get a photo sent of the install soon.
> > Red
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield
> > vibration/noise
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis
> > <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Red ....... What dB reduction did you get with
> > the
> > > vibration isolators from MSC? Rich
> > >
> > >
> > > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: red
> > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:41 PM
> > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield
> > vibration/noise
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tailwinders,
> > > > I got some vibration isolators from MSC that I
> > put
> > > > between the diagonal tubes and the windshield
> > and it
> > > > cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are 62187315
> > and
> > > > 62006192, you need two of the first and four of
> > the
> > > > second. They are adjustable and cost 1.17ea for
> > the
> > > > first and 1.53 each for the second. You have to
> > take
> > > > the threaded washer out of one end of each of
> > the
> > > > four to expose rubber so that it "sticks" to the
> > > > tube and does not hurt the windshield.
> > > > Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last night.
> > > > Red Hamilton
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > > Co-Director
> > > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > > 1900 South Avenue
> > > La Crosse, WI 54601
> > > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> > > rjrellis@yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> Co-Director
> Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> 1900 South Avenue
> La Crosse, WI 54601
> 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> rjrellis@yahoo.com
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
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