Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Props for O320 engines and performance ? (Rick)
2. 05:09 AM - Tailwind Cabin Noise Reduction (Rich Ellis)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (William Bernard)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: windshield vibration/noise (Larry H)
5. 08:55 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/15/04 (Hookbayak@aol.com)
6. 10:36 AM - Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's (Thomas Barnes)
7. 10:53 AM - Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's (Thomas Barnes)
8. 02:39 PM - Re: Baraboo (Kenneth Graves)
9. 03:46 PM - Re: Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's (Rick)
10. 05:37 PM - Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? (Kenneth Graves)
11. 07:09 PM - Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? (Earl Luce)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Props for O320 engines and performance ? |
Thomas: I'd always threatened to fly 3RC up to Baraboo, park in front of Jim's
hangar and not let him out until he gave the prop a mild reshape!!
Jim is being modest, he can do a much better job for you than Fred Felix can. Maybe
you can work out something with him to get him to do the shaping and you
do the finish, or something.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Props for O320 engines and performance ?
Thomas, In reply to your post and Ricks comments, this is what works best for
me.
You need 2300 rpm static, anything less kills takeoff performance, especially
in the summer. This should give you a top speed of about 200 mph at 2750- 2800
rpm, 2000 feet msl. At 10,000 feet It should turn about 2650 or maybe a little
more and true out at 195 - 200 mph. Back the throttle off 50 rpm and fuel burn
will be 7.5 gph. and still cruise at185 - 190 mph
The prop you have is the right pitch but is to fat, the blade needs to be thinned
out and the chord narrowed some to pick up the rpm. It's hard to talk some
of the prop makers into making the blades thinner. Call Fred Felix and see if
he can pick up 170 rpm. It's easier to get more rpm than to get rid of it.
Ed Sterba also makes props, some of the RV props he has made look pretty good
as far as blade shape and thickness.
Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Props for O320 engines and performance ?
Hi all,
I'm the very pleased new owner (as of March of this year) of Rick Crosslin's
W10. It truly is a beautiful work of craftmanship and art. Thanks for creating
such a beautiful, fast airplane, Rick !
Anyway - I am curious about the different props y'all are using on your O320
powered W10's out there, and what your RPMs are for various phases of operation
(as well as the conditions like temp, altitude,) for things like Static RPM,
Clim RPM @ ? airspeed, and various measurements of Cruising airspeed at 'X'
altitude.
The Felix 68DX74P prop on N393RC is a great cruising prop, is smooth and quiet,
but only turns about 2130 or so Static on a 60 degree F day. Just wondering
if perhaps there is another make/model out there that may give more T/O performance
(for some of the short fields here in NC) while retaining the good cruise
speed of the Felix.
Look forward to hearing about the various combinations of out there...
Thanks,
Thomas
PS - I *did* search thru the archives and didn't find much on this subject...
coulda missed it though...)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tailwind Cabin Noise Reduction |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
Red/Earl,
Not sure what the "install a clamp in rear spar
carrythrough as Earl Luce suggested" consists but will
await your trial and report to see what effect it will
have. Rich
--- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red"
> <redswings@reds-headers.com>
>
> Rich,
> I did the sound barrier and absorber at the same
> time and that may have been
> the #1. That was and is barrier on the firewall,
> absorber under the floor
> both baggage and foot, above the top baggage panel,
> on the back of the rear
> baggage wall, inside the boot cowl, on most of the
> fuel tank. None in the
> doors.
> #2 would be weatherstripping around the door
> openings.
> #3 would be the "mufflers" .
> The door forward corner restraints might be #4,
> don't have the 3/16"
> winshield yet but think that I should for safety as
> much as possible noise
> reduction.I feel better about the safety with the
> supports on the diagonals
> and the front spar carrythrough.
> I do use good ANR headsets and foam earplugs
> underneath, so does Marilyn.
> I am not going to mess with sound attenuation until
> I fabricate and install
> a clamp in rear spar carrythrough as Earl Luce
> suggested--thanks Earl. I
> have all of the pieces made, most are fit. I'll take
> some photos.
> Red
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Cc: <TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield
> vibration/noise
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis
> <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Red .... Appreciate your reply. Based on our
> > conversation it looks like your noise reduction
> > measures rank as follows (most reduction in cabin
> > noise):
> >
> > 1. Doors;
> > 2. 3/16 windshield thickness;
> > 3. Firewall;
> > 4. Flooring;
> > 5. Tail pipe;
> > 6. Windshield vibration;
> >
> > Before someone points out the obvious, I will
> mention
> > a good headset with ANR as a good place to start
> to
> > reduce the noise in a Tailwind.
> >
> > Let me know if the order above is correct. Rich
> >
> > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red"
> > > <redswings@reds-headers.com>
> > >
> > > Rich,
> > > Well I guess now that I have measured it I would
> > > have to say that the noise
> > > reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the
> Db
> > > meter knows, it makes no
> > > difference. It still seems quieter, the
> windshield
> > > is noticeably vibrating
> > > less.
> > > I'll try to get a photo sent of the install
> soon.
> > > Red
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:01 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield
> > > vibration/noise
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich
> Ellis
> > > <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > > Red ....... What dB reduction did you get
> with
> > > the
> > > > vibration isolators from MSC? Rich
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: red
> > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:41 PM
> > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield
> > > vibration/noise
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tailwinders,
> > > > > I got some vibration isolators from MSC
> that I
> > > put
> > > > > between the diagonal tubes and the
> windshield
> > > and it
> > > > > cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are
> 62187315
> > > and
> > > > > 62006192, you need two of the first and four
> of
> > > the
> > > > > second. They are adjustable and cost 1.17ea
> for
> > > the
> > > > > first and 1.53 each for the second. You have
> to
> > > take
> > > > > the threaded washer out of one end of each
> of
> > > the
> > > > > four to expose rubber so that it "sticks" to
> the
> > > > > tube and does not hurt the windshield.
> > > > > Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last
> night.
> > > > > Red Hamilton
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > > > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > > > Co-Director
> > > > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > > > 1900 South Avenue
> > > > La Crosse, WI 54601
> > > > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> > > > rjrellis@yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> out!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > Co-Director
> > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > 1900 South Avenue
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
Gundersen Lutheran Health System
Co-Director
Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
1900 South Avenue
La Crosse, WI 54601
800.362.9567, ext. 52102
rjrellis@yahoo.com
_______________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
Just a couple of comments about windshield supports. When my previous
aircraft, a Mustang II was first flown, I used a short piece of wood with
thin rubber padding, about 2 inches by 3/4 inch as a windshield support
because I had notice the 1/8" thick flat windshield sagging in flight.
This worked fine until one day I was shocked to see a crack about a foot
long across the windshield, right at the edge of the support. The fix, after
a new windshield was installed was to provide a support most of the width of
the windsheld. That and a switch to 3/16" thick and I had no further
problems.
For what it's worth.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
>
> Rich,
> I did the sound barrier and absorber at the same time and that may have
been
> the #1. That was and is barrier on the firewall, absorber under the floor
> both baggage and foot, above the top baggage panel, on the back of the
rear
> baggage wall, inside the boot cowl, on most of the fuel tank. None in the
> doors.
> #2 would be weatherstripping around the door openings.
> #3 would be the "mufflers" .
> The door forward corner restraints might be #4, don't have the 3/16"
> winshield yet but think that I should for safety as much as possible noise
> reduction.I feel better about the safety with the supports on the
diagonals
> and the front spar carrythrough.
> I do use good ANR headsets and foam earplugs underneath, so does Marilyn.
> I am not going to mess with sound attenuation until I fabricate and
install
> a clamp in rear spar carrythrough as Earl Luce suggested--thanks Earl. I
> have all of the pieces made, most are fit. I'll take some photos.
> Red
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Cc: <TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Red .... Appreciate your reply. Based on our
> > conversation it looks like your noise reduction
> > measures rank as follows (most reduction in cabin
> > noise):
> >
> > 1. Doors;
> > 2. 3/16 windshield thickness;
> > 3. Firewall;
> > 4. Flooring;
> > 5. Tail pipe;
> > 6. Windshield vibration;
> >
> > Before someone points out the obvious, I will mention
> > a good headset with ANR as a good place to start to
> > reduce the noise in a Tailwind.
> >
> > Let me know if the order above is correct. Rich
> >
> > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red"
> > > <redswings@reds-headers.com>
> > >
> > > Rich,
> > > Well I guess now that I have measured it I would
> > > have to say that the noise
> > > reduction was/is all in our heads. As far as the Db
> > > meter knows, it makes no
> > > difference. It still seems quieter, the windshield
> > > is noticeably vibrating
> > > less.
> > > I'll try to get a photo sent of the install soon.
> > > Red
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:01 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield
> > > vibration/noise
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis
> > > <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > > Red ....... What dB reduction did you get with
> > > the
> > > > vibration isolators from MSC? Rich
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: red
> > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:41 PM
> > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: windshield
> > > vibration/noise
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tailwinders,
> > > > > I got some vibration isolators from MSC that I
> > > put
> > > > > between the diagonal tubes and the windshield
> > > and it
> > > > > cut some cabin noise. The MSC p/n's are 62187315
> > > and
> > > > > 62006192, you need two of the first and four of
> > > the
> > > > > second. They are adjustable and cost 1.17ea for
> > > the
> > > > > first and 1.53 each for the second. You have to
> > > take
> > > > > the threaded washer out of one end of each of
> > > the
> > > > > four to expose rubber so that it "sticks" to the
> > > > > tube and does not hurt the windshield.
> > > > > Sorry that 1/2 a message went out last night.
> > > > > Red Hamilton
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > > > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > > > Co-Director
> > > > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > > > 1900 South Avenue
> > > > La Crosse, WI 54601
> > > > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> > > > rjrellis@yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Contributions
> > > any other
> > > Forums.
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> > Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> > Co-Director
> > Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> > 1900 South Avenue
> > La Crosse, WI 54601
> > 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> > rjrellis@yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: windshield vibration/noise |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Larry H" <laheze@ev1.net>
Another note, be careful if you see a crack in your windscreen. A fellow
that I know had his windscreen explode in on him with a piece hitting him in
the head hard enough that it almost knocked him out. He managed to gather
himself enough to land the Thorp T18 without a canopy at all. The 180-90
mph wind suddenly in ones face would be an EYE OPENER! Side note, there was
a small crack in the side of the canopy when he purchased the airplane, he
had planned on replacing the canopy but continued to fly as was. I know I
will never fly an airplane similar to his with a crack in the windscreen!
Larry H.
From: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
> Just a couple of comments about windshield supports. When my previous
> aircraft, a Mustang II was first flown, I used a short piece of wood with
> thin rubber padding, about 2 inches by 3/4 inch as a windshield support
> because I had notice the 1/8" thick flat windshield sagging in flight.
>
> This worked fine until one day I was shocked to see a crack about a foot
> long across the windshield, right at the edge of the support. The fix,
after
> a new windshield was installed was to provide a support most of the width
of
> the windsheld. That and a switch to 3/16" thick and I had no further
> problems.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: windshield vibration/noise
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" <redswings@reds-headers.com>
> >
> > Rich,
> > I did the sound barrier and absorber at the same time and that may have
> been
> > the #1. That was and is barrier on the firewall, absorber under the
floor
> > both baggage and foot, above the top baggage panel, on the back of the
> rear
> > baggage wall, inside the boot cowl, on most of the fuel tank. None in
the
> > doors.
> > #2 would be weatherstripping around the door openings.
> > #3 would be the "mufflers" .
> > The door forward corner restraints might be #4, don't have the 3/16"
> > winshield yet but think that I should for safety as much as possible
noise
> > reduction.I feel better about the safety with the supports on the
> diagonals
> > and the front spar carrythrough.
> > I do use good ANR headsets and foam earplugs underneath, so does
Marilyn.
> > I am not going to mess with sound attenuation until I fabricate and
> install
> > a clamp in rear spar carrythrough as Earl Luce suggested--thanks Earl. I
> > have all of the pieces made, most are fit. I'll take some photos.
> > Red
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 08/15/04 |
Please remove me from your list. Thanks You, Jim Long
Message 6
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| Subject: | Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's |
08/19/2004 11:35:29
Jim and Rick, thanks for the info on the props for W10's. Y'all's
experience is invaluable and thanks again for sharing it.
Rick - I'd be more than thrilled to see your O-O special go zooming by -
and fully expect it to ! BTW - there was a set of pics of your O-O
project in the seat pocket of N393RC - let me know if you need them back
and I'll drop them in the mail to you.
Flying so fast so easily - after 20 yrs of flying 100 mph planes - sure is
an experience. Almost unbelieveable. But y'all know that already :)
And one of these days, I hope to make it to a TW fly in to see other fine
examples of this rare bird...
Take care,
Thomas
=
Message 7
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| Subject: | Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's |
08/19/2004 11:35:29
Jim and Rick, thanks for the info on the props for W10's. Y'all's
experience is invaluable and thanks again for sharing it.
Rick - I'd be more than thrilled to see your O-O special go zooming by -
and fully expect it to ! BTW - there was a set of pics of your O-O
project in the seat pocket of N393RC - let me know if you need them back
and I'll drop them in the mail to you.
Flying so fast so easily - after 20 yrs of flying 100 mph planes - sure is
an experience. Almost unbelieveable. But y'all know that already :)
And one of these days, I hope to make it to a TW fly in to see other fine
examples of this rare bird...
Take care,
Thomas
=
Message 8
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|
Red, when you get the 4 in 1 give us a before and after analysis. Thanks Ken
red <redswings@reds-headers.com> wrote:
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's |
Thomas: I could use those pics, please send to:
Rick Crosslin
POB 2493
Elizabethtown, KY 42702
Thanks lots:
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Thanks for the prop info for O320 powered W10's
Jim and Rick, thanks for the info on the props for W10's. Y'all's experience
is invaluable and thanks again for sharing it.
Rick - I'd be more than thrilled to see your O-O special go zooming by - and
fully expect it to ! BTW - there was a set of pics of your O-O project in the
seat pocket of N393RC - let me know if you need them back and I'll drop them in
the mail to you.
Flying so fast so easily - after 20 yrs of flying 100 mph planes - sure is an
experience. Almost unbelieveable. But y'all know that already :)
And one of these days, I hope to make it to a TW fly in to see other fine examples
of this rare bird...
Take care,
Thomas
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? |
Earl have you determined if Buttercup will qualify?
To all of you, will a light weight ,low HP Tailwind perhaps with Vortex generators
meet the Sport Pilot rules?
I'm getting tired of spending $1700 for test, submitting them to wait 9 months
for an approval that expires in 3 months.
Just got my special medical 8/18 and it expires 11/30.
Ken
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? |
Ken,
Buttercup is border line as it is now but would take very little to make it
fall into the right numbers . ( no leading movable LE , slightly longer wing
, different prop , even no electrical system , ect .)
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Graves
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready?
Earl have you determined if Buttercup will qualify?
To all of you, will a light weight ,low HP Tailwind perhaps with Vortex generators
meet the Sport Pilot rules?
I'm getting tired of spending $1700 for test, submitting them to wait 9 months
for an approval that expires in 3 months.
Just got my special medical 8/18 and it expires 11/30.
Ken
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