Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - seam (Paul Holmes)
2. 07:41 AM - Re: Emailing: 103_0319 (Fred Weaver)
3. 08:19 AM - Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? (Mike Mears)
4. 01:55 PM - Re: Emailing: 103_0319 (Larry H)
5. 03:36 PM - Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? (Earl Luce)
6. 05:54 PM - Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? (Jerry Hey)
7. 07:07 PM - Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan fall gathering (Eric Schlanser)
8. 07:11 PM - Re: Welding fuselages/Baraboo (Estelle Danner)
9. 08:13 PM - Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan fall gathering (Dennis Flamini)
10. 08:27 PM - Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? (Earl Luce)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Jim and Dave, thanks for locating the seam for me.
Paul
pholmes@wmis.net
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: 103_0319 |
Nice pic with the Fourunner providing the shade..... Thanks Larry...
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Emailing: 103_0319
Here are a bunch of Tailwinders trying to hide from Mister Sun at Oshkosh 2004.
Larry Howell
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Mike Mears" <mike.mears@bbc.co.uk>
Earl,
From your website, you seem to be against a rotax engined
Buttercup. Is it because you wish to retain the style and simplicity of
the original? The lighter rotax engine would probably necessitate
lengthening the nose a little to keep the C of G under control but the
reduction in weight would be very helpful when trying for the Sport
Pilot criteria. Here in Europe, the engines are quite popular, but they
all seem to installed in KIT aircraft. A lightweight, slow stalling,
quick cruising, PLANS built aircraft would be very popular. If we could
use a lightweight engine too it would be the icing on the cake. Is there
some other technical problem with the installation I haven't foreseen?
If the engine had been available in the late thirties, would Steve have
used one?
Mike Mears.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry H
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready?
Earl have you determined if Buttercup will qualify? To all of you, will
a light weight ,low HP Tailwind perhaps with Vortex generators meet the
Sport Pilot rules? I'm getting tired of spending $1700 for test,
submitting them to wait 9 months for an approval that expires in 3
months. Just got my special medical 8/18 and it expires 11/30.....Ken
Ken, Buttercup is border line as it is now but would take very little
to make it fall into the right numbers . ( no leading movable LE ,
slightly longer wing , different prop , even no electrical system , ect
.)
Earl Luce
Earl, You mentioned in a previous post that you would consider removing
the electrical system in a Buttercup intended to be used under the sport
pilot rules. Why?...Bill
Bill ,
The Buttercup started it's life off in 1937 as a 30 ' wing , no
leading edge flaps , a skid instead of a tail wheel , one door and of
course no electric with a 50 hp Cont. Over the 60 + years that it has
been in the air , it has been the test bed of a lot of Witt's ideas .
Buttercup was the plane that proved the gear leg in both the round and
flat gear leg the Cessna bought the rights to .
To answer your question , I would like to go back in time and offer
a real simple airplane to the flying community that has it all in ANY
classic airplane . Wittman knew it then and had a hard time convincing
anyone . When he got the attention of Fairchild the war put a stop to it
and all was forgotten until my wife and I showed up with Buttercup at
Osh 01 . We have 75 sets of plans out and a host of builders
....................we will see what the second time around will bring.
Earl
Any chance of a fabric covered metal wing?
Richard
Richard ... Why would you consider a fibric covered metal wing? Earl
Luce
Weight, for one. It would be a lot bigger wing than the Tailwind.For the
performance range, it would be a viable fabric wing. Structural D cell
leading edge, beam spars, and aluminum ribs. Wrap it in a bag and iron
it out slick..... Richard
Drag of fabric wing is less that metal with round head rivits. However
it needs two struts. However, if you use counter sunk rivits and a
single strut !!!
Ken
I don't know for sure, I have always thought the difference was the
weight of the metal as compared to the fabric not rivets.
Larry H.
The Cessna 120 that I owned and flew a lot had a metal structure and a
fabric covered wing. The performance of the fabric covered wing 120s are
much better than the Cessna 120s that have had the wings covered in
metal ! Larry H.
That was my thinkng, Larry.I think it would be a lot easier to build
that way too.
Richard
To all who may be interested....I'm beginning construction of a metal
wing, C-85 powered, TW that will weigh around 650 empty and will meet
the LSA specs. It will probably be about a year from now to first
flight. I will be offering plans. Callbie Wood,
EAA 17659
jncwood@bbnp.com
The Buttercup is a lighter , roomier , slower ,STOL Tailwind . If you
would like to put a set of metal wings on it , I would love to work
with you . Earl Luce.
I believe the Buttercup has an all fabric covered wing, unlike the
tailwind. But it has wood spars and ribs.
mike_tailwind@att.net
Thanks Mike,Thought so...
And the two struts make it easy to adjust the rigging.Anybody have the
Buttercup dimensions and statistics handy? Didn't the origional have a
C-85 in it? My next door neighbor's Taylorcraft (BC12D) would be
comparable.
We've flown it thousands of miles (literally) on a (1939) A-65. It's not
blazing fast, but it gets there.
After straightening out the rigging, she goes an honest 90 mph with the
two of us aboard.Which brings me back to engines...Engines and
airframes, in fact. And efficiency / perfomance / bucks.
Leo's Zenith Zodiac has a Rotax 912.And it has a whopping big (74 inch?)
electrically controllible propeller.
That rig just begs to ride on a light Tailwind. Set the low pitch limit
(prop) to accellerate and climb at 100-120? Then set the high pitch
limit by manifold pressure avaliable for high altitude dash speed.
And, as I recall, there is a turbocharged version of that engine - the
Rotax 914. :)
Richard Lamb
Earl ... Where did name Buttercup come from? Rich
Rich,
Buttercup was named by Dorthy Wittman , Steve's first wife . It was
her favorite airplane .She thought it was cute, so fit the name . Also
this was the plane she used to follow Steve to the air races with all
the extra tools , gas ,spar parts ,ect. Earl
Dorothy also did the same with the Big X. The log books were almost
more interesting than the airplane, to see the trips that she made
carrying a mechanic, tools, spare parts, and Steve's racing prop as they
followed Steve in his racer ( using a cruise prop) from one race to the
next.
Jim McCulley N 5566
Wood spars, ribs, fabric covering, and double lift struts was also the
configuration of the Wittman Big X, a four place that Steve had hoped to
get certified for production but fell by the wayside in connection with
the problems of
WW2. See the following for a picture (and data) of the Big X:
http://www.chlassociates.com/Aviation/n31637.htm
Jim McCulley N 5566
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ - World Wide Wonderland
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the
BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: 103_0319 |
Your welcome Weave
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Emailing: 103_0319
Nice pic with the Fourunner providing the shade..... Thanks Larry...
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Emailing: 103_0319
Here are a bunch of Tailwinders trying to hide from Mister Sun at Oshkosh 2004.
Larry Howell
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Hi Mike,
The rotax engine (912?) is way too light. You would have to push the engine
mount out so far, that it would ruin the looks of the aircraft. Plus, it
would change the center of balance and possibly cause a yawing problem. The
other problem is that they are too expensive. Whittman would be spinning in
his grave if he had to pay for one. You could buy a used O-200 for half the
price that would last twice as long.
Earl Luce
---
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
Earl, as soon as I am finished with the present 13B /Tailwind project,
I am thinking seriously of building a single rotor for the Buttercup.
Incredibly neat engine that will develop about 110 hp and weigh about
170 lbs. including rads, drive, etc. Some talented guys are working on
this already and the engine is now running on the test stand. There
is talk about using Aluminum end housings which would cut another 50
lbs. Maybe it would be too light too. Jerry
On Wednesday, August 25, 2004, at 05:37 PM, Earl Luce wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce"
> <luceair@frontiernet.net>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> The rotax engine (912?) is way too light. You would have to push the
> engine
> mount out so far, that it would ruin the looks of the aircraft. Plus,
> it
> would change the center of balance and possibly cause a yawing
> problem. The
> other problem is that they are too expensive. Whittman would be
> spinning in
> his grave if he had to pay for one. You could buy a used O-200 for
> half the
> price that would last twice as long.
>
> Earl Luce
>
>
> ---
> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> > _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan fall gathering |
John, OK, we will plan this since we have some interest and can get at least two
Tailwinds here. Brian is one. Wally is two. Do I hear another? Malcolm? Jerry?
Dennis? Can we Badger someone into coming around the lake? All Tailwinders,
with or without Tailwinds are welcome.
Wally said he might want to camp overnight what with crossing the border from
Ontario. One site Wally suggested is Coldwater, MI (OEB). It has cheap fuel
and a restaurant. Coldwater is about 1 hour south by car from us.
Two site possibilites nearby are Kalamazoo, MI (AZO) and Plainwell, MI (61D).
We are 15-20 minutes by car to 61D or AZO.
Plainwell is uncontrolled. It has fuel, a pilots shed with flush potty for campers,
and two restaurants, one at the field, one within 5 minutes walking. There
is at least one motel in Plainwell but not within walking distance. Richard
said he will check with the city on our use of the facilities at Plainwell,
MI.
There is no camping at the Class C AZO airport, but there is a motel adjacent
as are several restaurants, the new AirZoo, and my T hangar. We can check with
Duncan Aviation on the use of their FBO facilities at AZO.
Thinking about late Sep or early Oct. Oct 9 as a possibility.
Eric and Richard- in Kalamazoo, MI
john <frmrjohn@netonecom.net> wrote:
Eric and Richard; Could we maybe get together at Kalamazoo for a Tailwind
fly-in for late Sept or early Oct. Wally thinks it would be a good idea. I
could have it here, but you are in a more central location to Ohio Wisconsin
and Indiana. Just throwing it out for discussion. JohnD Don't Archive
---------------------------------
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Welding fuselages/Baraboo |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Estelle Danner" <edanner@jvlnet.com>
Hi Fred i was talking to Clint tonite and he said that Rich had found a
engine case . so if you havent boxed up that case yet dont bother. if you
have no matter we will just do two at a time . things go togather pretty
fast at Baraboo . Bob Danner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding fuselages/Baraboo
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
<Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> How soon do you need it?
> How do you want it shipped?
> And remember, it's VERY valuable... make sure it doesn't get scratched..
> :)
> Weav
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Estelle Danner" <edanner@jvlnet.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding fuselages/Baraboo
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Estelle Danner"
<edanner@jvlnet.com>
> >
> > Hi Fred TWO trikes also we neen your 180 core to fit up the engine
mounts
> > box it up and send it to baraboo no crank just the case thanks Bob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Welding fuselages/Baraboo
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > Danner and Clint sure look like they're having lots of fun! Thanks for
> > > posting the pics to the LIST! They came thru full size and fast...
> > > Too bad the fuse appears to be another trike..... :)
> > > Weav
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
> > > To: <TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Cc: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 6:19 PM
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Welding fuselages/Baraboo
> > >
> > >
> > > > TWers ...... Another great day at Baraboo with great
> > > > Wisconsin weather. Bob Danner hard a work recently
> > > > completing the fuselag welding on 2 new W-10s under
> > > > construction (see photos below). Bob's welding skills
> > > > are simply PERFECT!
> > > >
> > > > Jim C was hard a work fabricating aluminum fairings
> > > > for the wing root attachment area. His Tailwind #9 is
> > > > sharing up quickly. Rich
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan fall gathering |
Count me in and if anyone needs a ride from the bottom of the lake just e-mail
me.
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Schlanser
To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Tailwind-list@Matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan fall gathering
John, OK, we will plan this since we have some interest and can get at least
two Tailwinds here. Brian is one. Wally is two. Do I hear another? Malcolm? Jerry?
Dennis? Can we Badger someone into coming around the lake? All Tailwinders,
with or without Tailwinds are welcome.
Wally said he might want to camp overnight what with crossing the border from
Ontario. One site Wally suggested is Coldwater, MI (OEB). It has cheap fuel
and a restaurant. Coldwater is about 1 hour south by car from us.
Two site possibilites nearby are Kalamazoo, MI (AZO) and Plainwell, MI (61D).
We are 15-20 minutes by car to 61D or AZO.
Plainwell is uncontrolled. It has fuel, a pilots shed with flush potty for
campers, and two restaurants, one at the field, one within 5 minutes walking.
There is at least one motel in Plainwell but not within walking distance. Richard
said he will check with the city on our use of the facilities at Plainwell,
MI.
There is no camping at the Class C AZO airport, but there is a motel adjacent
as are several restaurants, the new AirZoo, and my T hangar. We can check with
Duncan Aviation on the use of their FBO facilities at AZO.
Thinking about late Sep or early Oct. Oct 9 as a possibility.
Eric and Richard- in Kalamazoo, MI
john <frmrjohn@netonecom.net> wrote:
Eric and Richard; Could we maybe get together at Kalamazoo for a Tailwind
fly-in for late Sept or early Oct. Wally thinks it would be a good idea.
I
could have it here, but you are in a more central location to Ohio Wisconsin
and Indiana. Just throwing it out for discussion. JohnD Don't Archive
The Tailwind Forum group site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum
ADVERTISEMENT
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TailwindForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready? |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Jerry ,
Great !!!! Can't wait to see you in a Buttercup . Remember , I need 200
lbs +up front to keep things in proper scale and balance . Much lighter you
will have a aft problem . Many times I wished I put the battery on the
firewall intead of behind the seat so I can soft more crap in the back . I
have flown loaded with 90 lbs of baggage with no problems but that is the
most I would want to push it . I did have the trim full forward .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Hey" <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Buttercup Sport Pilot ready?
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Hey <j-winddesigns@thegrid.net>
>
> Earl, as soon as I am finished with the present 13B /Tailwind project,
> I am thinking seriously of building a single rotor for the Buttercup.
> Incredibly neat engine that will develop about 110 hp and weigh about
> 170 lbs. including rads, drive, etc. Some talented guys are working on
> this already and the engine is now running on the test stand. There
> is talk about using Aluminum end housings which would cut another 50
> lbs. Maybe it would be too light too. Jerry
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2004, at 05:37 PM, Earl Luce wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce"
> > <luceair@frontiernet.net>
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > The rotax engine (912?) is way too light. You would have to push the
> > engine
> > mount out so far, that it would ruin the looks of the aircraft. Plus,
> > it
> > would change the center of balance and possibly cause a yawing
> > problem. The
> > other problem is that they are too expensive. Whittman would be
> > spinning in
> > his grave if he had to pay for one. You could buy a used O-200 for
> > half the
> > price that would last twice as long.
> >
> > Earl Luce
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > > > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > > > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > > > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
---
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|