Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: Panel Pic (IslPilot@aol.com)
2. 03:56 AM - Re: Re:Panel Pic again (IslPilot@aol.com)
3. 04:13 AM - Re: Trip MPG (IslPilot@aol.com)
4. 05:04 AM - Re: Trip MPG (William Bernard)
5. 05:23 AM - Re: W10 Wing (Ruhnke, Mike)
6. 05:48 AM - Re: Slow Cruizin (RJ)
7. 05:49 AM - Re: W10 Wing (owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
8. 07:53 AM - Re: W10 Wing (Ruhnke, Mike)
9. 10:14 AM - Re: W10 Wing (mike_tailwind@att.net)
10. 10:42 AM - Re: Slow Cruizin (john)
11. 07:03 PM - Michigan gathering (john)
12. 07:03 PM - Re: Slow Cruizin (Earl Luce)
13. 07:09 PM - Re: W10 Wing (Earl Luce)
14. 07:28 PM - Re: W10 Wing (Estelle Danner)
15. 09:20 PM - Re: W10 Wing (red)
16. 09:44 PM - Re: W10 Wing (red)
Message 1
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Give it to him Jim!
Paul
Charlevoix, MI
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re:Panel Pic again |
You could always put a piece of yarn on the windshield so that you could
determine that there were no internal (mental) problems with what is really
straight and level.
Works great in sailplanes and jets.
Paul
Charlevoix, MI
Message 3
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Bill: Next time you head to Manistee if you have the time give me a call.
Charlevoix is pretty close.
Paul
Charlevoix, MI
Message 4
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Paul, It won't be until at least next year. My aunt spends her summers just north
of Manistee and my sister & I went up to help her celebrate her birthday.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: IslPilot@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Trip MPG
Bill: Next time you head to Manistee if you have the time give me a call. Charlevoix
is pretty close.
Paul
Charlevoix, MI
Message 5
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I read an article by Tony B last night. Birch plywood if not sanded does not bond
well. Mahogany however if not sanded will still bond. So if strength of
the mahogany ply is up to the task one need not be concerned if they sanded or
didn't sand. I remember doing a glue joint test on sanded and unsanded mahogany
while I was building my wing ribs. Both bonds broke in the wood.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Conrad
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
All this talk should be common sense! I have a hard time with guys that use the
plywood sheeting for doublers also. As a technical counselor I'd red flag anything
that I saw that didn't have birch aircraft plywood doublers of the proper
thickness or greater on any project, Tailwind or not. But that's just me. Dave
Conrad
On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 08:01 PM, Earl Luce wrote:
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great gal
and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft Spruce
is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada redraw
the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable that
they send out something like that without adding at least a revision drawing
attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were to be installed
at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such a detail
being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve did not draw
the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood doublers.
It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added plywood
to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample in my simple
loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in a manner
that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples. But for
now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly calling
out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood is in there
cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE AND THAT
MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL WHO HAD PUT
THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake I mention
would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once you close
a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached to
this report.
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Slow Cruizin |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: RJ <gatsby8898@yahoo.com>
Yes, I'm here Weave. RJ
--- "mytyweav@earthlink.net" <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by:
> "mytyweav@earthlink.net" <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> Dennis... The shots are for you. I hope to keep
> taking them at various
> altitudes and settings. I guess I can type all I
> want but "seein' is
> believin'.." The tough part is taking pictures while
> you are holding a
> course and altitude. I want to be sure to hold the
> VSI steady so we all get
> the facts. Trouble is.... My plane balances so fine
> that moving a hand/arm
> back or a head forward can make such subtle changes
> in attitude.
> I'm trying to get the wheelpants back on tonight for
> the trip to Colorado.
> I want to provide some details of the trip out and
> back.
> God, I hope there is a difference.....
> hahahhahahhaha.... RJ, I hope
> you're staying with us on this stuff.
> Weav
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: flamini2 flamini2@comcast.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:34:42 -0500
> To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com,
> tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
>
>
> Fred,
> I luv the panel shots!!
> Maybe the T&B is centered because it is off.
> Better check to see if it is hooked up.
> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> Message -----
> From: Fred Weaver
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:28 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
>
>
>
> This pic shows all the pertinent stuff while I was
> coming home yesterday.
> Remember, Hot day, No Wheelpants and this pic shows
> all the lower settings.
> The only reason the ball is centered is I must be in
> a slight left hand
> turn and not paying any attention.
> Cruise altitude is 6500' @ 155 indicated, 2200 rpm
> @ 19"(sorry you can't
> see the manifold pressure). And the temp had to be
> at least 70 degrees F.
>
> Looks like my trip to Colorado will be without the
> pants as I don't have
> time to put them back on before leaving in the
> morning. Maybe we will get
> some more good "Empirical" data for the group.
> Weav
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 7
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A correction.
In a past post I stated, "The doublers are of three ply construction, two mahogany
layers and one birch layer. The birch layer is the thickest. Therefore I
aligned the grain of the birch layer perpendicular to the grain of the main spar."
I have since found a piece of the the stuff I used, it has stamped on it
Aircraft Plywood; 90 degree Mahogany with Poplar center. The EAA book I purchased
while I was building my wings lists Poplar to be superior to Mahogany
in tensile strength. 7,300 psi to 5,400 psi.. Knowing the construction of the
plywood and of the strengths (tensile of Poplar and bonding of Mahogany) of
the wood types one can see why Steve specified that the outer grain of the Plywood
be parallel with the grain of the spar.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I read an article by Tony B last night. Birch plywood if not sanded does not bond
well. Mahogany however if not sanded will still bond. So if strength of
the mahogany ply is up to the task one need not be concerned if they sanded or
didn't sand. I remember doing a glue joint test on sanded and unsanded mahogany
while I was building my wing ribs. Both bonds broke in the wood.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Conrad
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
All this talk should be common sense! I have a hard time with guys that use the
plywood sheeting for doublers also. As a technical counselor I'd red flag anything
that I saw that didn't have birch aircraft plywood doublers of the proper
thickness or greater on any project, Tailwind or not. But that's just me. Dave
Conrad
On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 08:01 PM, Earl Luce wrote:
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great gal
and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft Spruce
is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada redraw
the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable that
they send out something like that without adding at least a revision drawing
attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were to be installed
at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such a detail
being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve did not draw
the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood doublers.
It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added plywood
to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample in my simple
loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in a manner
that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples. But for
now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly calling
out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood is in there
cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE AND THAT
MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL WHO HAD PUT
THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake I mention
would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once you close
a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached to
this report.
---
Message 8
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Thanks Earl. My wife scanned the portion of the plans in question and I have e-mailed
them to Jennifer.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Earl Luce
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great gal
and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis <mailto:owenld@earthlink.net> Owen
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna <mailto:168x@merr.com> Clement
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft Spruce
is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada redraw
the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable that
they send out something like that without adding at least a revision drawing
attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, <mailto:ruhnkem@rayovac.com> Mike
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were to be installed
at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such a detail
being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve did not draw
the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood doublers.
It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added plywood
to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample in my simple
loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in a manner
that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples. But for
now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly calling
out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood is in there
cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE AND THAT
MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL WHO HAD PUT
THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake I mention
would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once you close
a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached to
this report.
---
Message 9
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: mike_tailwind@att.net
Revision 1 of the Aircraft Spruce plans does show plywood doublers for both the
root and the strut fittings. See page 23 of the plans. ACS did send me revision
1 to the plans, on their own, free of charge. This after purchasing the
new plans for ony $20.00, because I have an original set of plans and builder
number. I definitely believe I got more than my $20.00 in reproduction and mailing
costs.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" : --------------
Thanks Earl. My wife scanned the portion of the plans in question and I have e-mailed
them to Jennifer.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Earl Luce
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great gal
and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft Spruce
is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada redraw
the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable that
they send out something like that without adding at least a revision drawing
attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were to be installed
at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such a detail
being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve did not draw
the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood doublers.
It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added plywood
to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample in my simple
loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in a manner
that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples. But for
now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly calling
out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood is in there
cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE AND THAT
MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL WHO HAD PUT
THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake I mention
would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once you close
a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached to
this report.
---
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Slow Cruizin |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Fred; It sounds like it is time to toss out the Kodak Brownie and get a
camera with alittle faster lens and some of that new 800 film, it will
almost freeze time. Hehehehehehehehe! Don't Archive. JohnD
----- Original Message -----
From: <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "mytyweav@earthlink.net"
<mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> Dennis... The shots are for you. I hope to keep taking them at various
> altitudes and settings. I guess I can type all I want but "seein' is
> believin'.." The tough part is taking pictures while you are holding a
> course and altitude. I want to be sure to hold the VSI steady so we all
get
> the facts. Trouble is.... My plane balances so fine that moving a
hand/arm
> back or a head forward can make such subtle changes in attitude.
> I'm trying to get the wheelpants back on tonight for the trip to Colorado.
> I want to provide some details of the trip out and back.
> God, I hope there is a difference..... hahahhahahhaha.... RJ, I hope
> you're staying with us on this stuff.
> Weav
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: flamini2 flamini2@comcast.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:34:42 -0500
> To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com, tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
>
>
> Fred,
> I luv the panel shots!!
> Maybe the T&B is centered because it is off.
> Better check to see if it is hooked up.
> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> Message -----
> From: Fred Weaver
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:28 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
>
>
> This pic shows all the pertinent stuff while I was coming home
yesterday.
> Remember, Hot day, No Wheelpants and this pic shows all the lower
settings.
> The only reason the ball is centered is I must be in a slight left hand
> turn and not paying any attention.
> Cruise altitude is 6500' @ 155 indicated, 2200 rpm @ 19"(sorry you can't
> see the manifold pressure). And the temp had to be at least 70 degrees F.
>
> Looks like my trip to Colorado will be without the pants as I don't have
> time to put them back on before leaving in the morning. Maybe we will get
> some more good "Empirical" data for the group.
> Weav
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Michigan gathering |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "john" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Jerry; Sure hope you can drive up to Plainwell and bring along the exhaust
system. It is time to make a committment on it. I'll bring down the engine
mount and you can have a look at it. Hope to get alot of ideas on the fuel
systems everyone is using and finish up project and get to flying. Will try
and get there by 8:00, so Richard and I can cook the Jungle. See everone
sat morning. JohnD Don't Archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Slow Cruizin |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Earl Luce" <luceair@frontiernet.net>
Weav,
Have you tried to tailwheel trick yet for trim ? It must be killing you
to admit I was right (hahahahahah)
Earl
<mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "mytyweav@earthlink.net"
<mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> Dennis... The shots are for you. I hope to keep taking them at various
> altitudes and settings. I guess I can type all I want but "seein' is
> believin'.." The tough part is taking pictures while you are holding a
> course and altitude. I want to be sure to hold the VSI steady so we all
get
> the facts. Trouble is.... My plane balances so fine that moving a
hand/arm
> back or a head forward can make such subtle changes in attitude.
> I'm trying to get the wheelpants back on tonight for the trip to Colorado.
> I want to provide some details of the trip out and back.
> God, I hope there is a difference..... hahahhahahhaha.... RJ, I hope
> you're staying with us on this stuff.
> Weav
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: flamini2 flamini2@comcast.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:34:42 -0500
> To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com, tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
>
>
> Fred,
> I luv the panel shots!!
> Maybe the T&B is centered because it is off.
> Better check to see if it is hooked up.
> Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
> Message -----
> From: Fred Weaver
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:28 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Slow Cruizin
>
>
> This pic shows all the pertinent stuff while I was coming home
yesterday.
> Remember, Hot day, No Wheelpants and this pic shows all the lower
settings.
> The only reason the ball is centered is I must be in a slight left hand
> turn and not paying any attention.
> Cruise altitude is 6500' @ 155 indicated, 2200 rpm @ 19"(sorry you can't
> see the manifold pressure). And the temp had to be at least 70 degrees F.
>
> Looks like my trip to Colorado will be without the pants as I don't have
> time to put them back on before leaving in the morning. Maybe we will get
> some more good "Empirical" data for the group.
> Weav
>
>
---
Message 13
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Bob,
Small world ? I thought he was kidding when he told me he was there . The pulleys
were the hangar next to mine . I found a pulley at the car parts store
that works great . It is from a power steering unit off a 454 Ford .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Estelle Danner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Hi Earl Hey did your door pulleys break does that guy form new zeland have a
zeinith 701 in your hanger Bob Danner
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great
gal and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft
Spruce is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada
redraw the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable
that they send out something like that without adding at least a revision
drawing attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:32 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were
to be installed at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such
a detail being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve
did not draw the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood
doublers. It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added
plywood to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample
in my simple loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in
a manner that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples.
But for now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly
calling out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood
is in there cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have
a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE
AND THAT MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL
WHO HAD PUT THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake
I mention would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once
you close a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not
all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole
was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached
to
this report.
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 14
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Hi Earl no kidding on the small world . glad to hear it was not your door . got
to have them pulleys big and sturdy . Bye Bob D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Bob,
Small world ? I thought he was kidding when he told me he was there . The
pulleys were the hangar next to mine . I found a pulley at the car parts store
that works great . It is from a power steering unit off a 454 Ford .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Estelle Danner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Hi Earl Hey did your door pulleys break does that guy form new zeland have
a zeinith 701 in your hanger Bob Danner
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great
gal and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft
Spruce is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada
redraw the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable
that they send out something like that without adding at least a revision
drawing attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:32 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were
to be installed at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft
such a detail being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve
did not draw the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the
plywood doublers. It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I
added plywood to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample
in my simple loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them
in a manner that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples.
But for now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly
calling out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood
is in there cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have
a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE
AND THAT MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL
WHO HAD PUT THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake
I mention would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once
you close a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United
States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce
(Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly
into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes
that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not
all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of
the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole
was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached
to
this report.
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 15
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Yes, considerably less, when I gave them the old s/n, they sent me the plans for
something like a $10 handling charge. That was about mid 2001. Now I hear that
they cut no slack for having old plans.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Cummings
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I have a set of A.S.&S.'s W-8 and W-10 plans and a set of Wittman's W-8 plans
(serial # 500) . All have the 1/16 inch doublers shown.
My A.S.& S. plans are dated 1999.(both the W-8 and W-10) They have no serial
numbers because at the time of the purchase, if someone already had a set of
Wittman's original plans, the new updated plans were sold at a considerably less
price. It was some kind of introductory credit offer.
Apparently, since the 1999 Edition, the doublers have been omitted.
Tom
(15 ribs finished)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Weav. You send me the dope, I'll follow it through. I have never seen AirCraft
Spruce's plan set but if Jim C say's it ain't there it ain't there.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:07 AM
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Has anyone notified Jim Irwin at Spruce? Mike: I recommend you put a nice
package together and notify Irwin. Looks like you have done the research and
Jim C has seen the difference in the drawings.....so, it seems you might be the
right guy for the job. If you need his direct email address, let me know. I
have it somewhere.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft
Spruce is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada
redraw the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable
that they send out something like that without adding at least a revision
drawing attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:32 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were
to be installed at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such
a detail being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve
did not draw the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood
doublers. It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added
plywood to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample
in my simple loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in
a manner that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples.
But for now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly
calling out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood
is in there cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have
a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE
AND THAT MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL
WHO HAD PUT THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake
I mention would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once
you close a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not
all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole
was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached
to
this report.
Message 16
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454 Ford ?
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Bob,
Small world ? I thought he was kidding when he told me he was there . The
pulleys were the hangar next to mine . I found a pulley at the car parts store
that works great . It is from a power steering unit off a 454 Ford .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Estelle Danner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Hi Earl Hey did your door pulleys break does that guy form new zeland have
a zeinith 701 in your hanger Bob Danner
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great
gal and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft
Spruce is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada
redraw the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable
that they send out something like that without adding at least a revision
drawing attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:32 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were
to be installed at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft
such a detail being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve
did not draw the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the
plywood doublers. It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I
added plywood to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample
in my simple loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them
in a manner that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples.
But for now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly
calling out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood
is in there cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have
a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE
AND THAT MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL
WHO HAD PUT THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake
I mention would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once
you close a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United
States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce
(Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly
into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes
that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not
all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of
the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole
was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached
to
this report.
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
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