Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:06 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Keith Imel)
2. 01:12 AM - Re: Ribs Complete (Keith Imel)
3. 03:49 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com)
4. 05:15 AM - Re: W10 Wing (Ruhnke, Mike)
5. 05:21 AM - W10 wing (Jim and Donna Clement)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: W10 wing (Ruhnke, Mike)
7. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Stephen Doughty)
8. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (dmagaw@att.net)
9. 06:59 AM - Re: Copperstate Flyin (dmagaw@att.net)
10. 07:12 AM - Re: Ribs Complete (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind)
11. 10:38 AM - Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin (DaveM)
12. 10:51 AM - Re: Ribs Complete (Fred Weaver)
13. 10:53 AM - Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin (Fred Weaver)
14. 11:43 AM - Re: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg. (Rick)
15. 11:45 AM - Re: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg. (Rick)
16. 02:22 PM - Re: Ribs Complete (David Lamphere)
17. 02:59 PM - compression springs (Paul Holmes)
18. 03:36 PM - Re: Ribs Complete (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind)
19. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Robert Ardis)
20. 05:18 PM - Re: Ribs Complete (Fred Weaver)
21. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Lovelace)
22. 06:48 PM - Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering (flamini2)
23. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering (Luc H.)
24. 08:30 PM - Re: Ribs Complete (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind)
25. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin (red)
26. 08:38 PM - Fw: Ribs Complete (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Keith Imel" <keithimel@alaska.net>
Mike,
I have never flown or rode in a Tailwind. But I have over 2000 hours with
630+ on floats and all my time is Bush flying in Alaska. I can tell you
this, you will never be sorry that you have to much power. Only sorry that
you do not have enough! My thoughts are that you can throttle up an O320
Lycoming and go like hell if you need to. You can also cruise around at 1900
or 2000 RPM and enjoy pretty good fuel economy! The best of both worlds???
I will post more photos of my project as soon as I have some time to
figure out how to reduce file sizes. I think that my wing spar attach
brackets are much better that in the plans.
Also guys, If anybody would like to try to use those wing tanks I will
give them away. Let me know and I will ship them freight collect.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
>
> Fisrtly, I haven't laughed that hard in years. I have three (one s*itty
Olds, One beautiful Buick, and an O.k. looking converted job) my wife
already reminds me of that fact. Regularly. Two nice propellers though.
>
> Anybody wanna buy some V-8 stuff? I gotta buy some furniture.
>
> Mike NW Illinois
> Tailwind in limbo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred
> Weaver
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:52 PM
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
>
>
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
<Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn something from others that
have
> been there......
>
> First of all.... There is no substitute for Horsepower AND Altitude....
> From Aviator 1.
>
> Next.. How many times do you want to buy an engine? You already did it
> once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving money by only going
with
> 100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 - $10,000..... and then
> you will fly it....."Recreationally"?
>
> Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you might take your wife or
> daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for a ride. Then you
decide
> to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you along with some Pepsi's..
> Have to have some weight for this example... Oh boy, you're both excited
> to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have discovered a neat little
> place where you can land and there is a small river nearby where you both
> can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, all this "Recreational"
> flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and head for the hills...
> You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time to come home. It's about
> 2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys will be up high in the
> nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... First you have to
> successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from where you are. But hey,
> you know your plane, it will be no problem....... You take off all the
time
> to go flying. So you line er up and jam the throttle in to the stops....
> Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it just a tad for more
> power...and you go and go and go and you aren't really setting the world
> on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to pucker some as you
> barely lift off before having to abort. Now the damn trees are getting
real
> close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat of the day. Whew!!!
you
> just made it over the tree's and around the big rock on the left. It is
at
> this moment that you will remember all these "devilish" emails about
putting
> the right engine on in the first place. Of course, then you have to go
home
> and explain to your wife how you need to spend a bunch more money now for
> another engine. But first you have to buy her a bunch of new furniture for
> the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. Of course, you tell
her
> it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine you had in the first
> place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even with ALL the cool
> accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh wow, now you have a
0-200
> or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that really needs one of
those
> so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere Kinda like Bob Connors....
> ( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob.
>
> Just how much time and money do you have that you want to waste? Just
> imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased a nice 0-320 in the
> first place, just like Eric did...
>
> Weav
>
> PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... hahahhaha.. I'm a bad,
> bad boy...and a probably not a good role model either. But at times,
I'm
> like that cute little angel.......trying to save your bacon.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
<ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> >
> > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the devil on one shoulder
and
> an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver would be?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred
> > Weaver
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM
> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> >
> >
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Makes no difference...... Power is required....
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM
> > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > >
> > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for recreation. Cross
country
> > would be secondary.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Luc H.
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM
> > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net>
> > >
> > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or other airplane with a single
> > digit
> > > wing loading.
> > > Luc
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM
> > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > >
> > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. Something around 100 hp. I
> > don't
> > > want to go broke doing it. Help.
> > >
> > > Mike NW Illinois
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
Kirby,
You want to sell that rib jig? Trade you for a set of wing tanks!
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
To: Tailwind List
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:45 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Ribs Complete
Hey guys,
We just completed our ribs for N540CJ. The wing kit sure made it easy to build
perfect ribs. I'm looking forward to putting them on the spars next week. I
hope my tubing order comes in from Wicks soon. I have sent a picture of some of
the completed ribs, and the CNC cut rib jigs. I hope the file is small enough.
They are on the lowest resolution camera setting. I'm still loooking for an
O-320, if anyone knows of any good steals.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. Sorry we missed you.
Malcolm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
>
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
>
> Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you really think? :)
>
> Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee for now.
>
>
> >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700
> >
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn something from others that
> >have
> >been there......
> >
> >First of all.... There is no substitute for Horsepower AND Altitude....
> >From Aviator 1.
> >
> >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an engine? You already did it
> >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving money by only going
> with
> >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 - $10,000..... and
> then
> >you will fly it....."Recreationally"?
> >
> >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you might take your wife or
> >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for a ride. Then you
> decide
> >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you along with some
> Pepsi's..
> >Have to have some weight for this example... Oh boy, you're both
> excited
> >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have discovered a neat little
> >place where you can land and there is a small river nearby where you both
> >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, all this "Recreational"
> >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and head for the hills...
> >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time to come home. It's
> about
> >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys will be up high in the
> >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... First you have to
> >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from where you are. But
> hey,
> >you know your plane, it will be no problem....... You take off all the
> time
> >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the throttle in to the stops....
> >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it just a tad for more
> >power...and you go and go and go and you aren't really setting the
> world
> >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to pucker some as you
> >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the damn trees are getting
> real
> >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat of the day. Whew!!!
> >you
> >just made it over the tree's and around the big rock on the left. It is
> at
> >this moment that you will remember all these "devilish" emails about
> >putting
> >the right engine on in the first place. Of course, then you have to go
> >home
> >and explain to your wife how you need to spend a bunch more money now for
> >another engine. But first you have to buy her a bunch of new furniture
> for
> >the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. Of course, you tell
> her
> >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine you had in the first
> >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even with ALL the cool
> >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh wow, now you have a
> 0-200
> >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that really needs one of
> those
> >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere Kinda like Bob
> Connors....
> >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob.
> >
> >Just how much time and money do you have that you want to waste? Just
> >imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased a nice 0-320 in the
> >first place, just like Eric did...
> >
> >Weav
> >
> >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... hahahhaha.. I'm a bad,
> >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model either. But at times,
> I'm
> >like that cute little angel.......trying to save your bacon.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> >
> >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > >
> > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the devil on one shoulder
> >and
> >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver would be?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred
> > > Weaver
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM
> > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> ><Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > Makes no difference...... Power is required....
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > >
> > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for recreation. Cross
> >country
> > > would be secondary.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Luc H.
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM
> > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >
> > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or other airplane with a
> single
> > > digit
> > > > wing loading.
> > > > Luc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM
> > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > >
> > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. Something around 100 hp.
> I
> > > don't
> > > > want to go broke doing it. Help.
> > > >
> > > > Mike NW Illinois
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
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Message 4
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
How tight is to tight? The original plans call for 1/16 Mahogany plywood. If
a builder did or does tighten the bolts way way to tight it is possible the plywood
could become damaged and not do its job (keeping the spruce spar from spliting).
I have been e-mailed several accounts of Tailwind wings taking a lot
of abuse and not breaking but there have been at least three un-explained fatal
crashes (no accoutnt or investigation as to why they crashed) and three wing
failures (1970, 1999, 2001).
My purpose for writing this is to make current and future builders aware that a
bolted wooden connection of this type needs to be treated with care if it is
to perform in service.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
mike_tailwind@att.net
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: mike_tailwind@att.net
Revision 1 of the Aircraft Spruce plans does show plywood doublers for both the
root and the strut fittings. See page 23 of the plans. ACS did send me revision
1 to the plans, on their own, free of charge. This after purchasing the
new plans for ony $20.00, because I have an original set of plans and builder
number. I definitely believe I got more than my $20.00 in reproduction and mailing
costs.
-------------- Original message from "Ruhnke, Mike" : --------------
Thanks Earl. My wife scanned the portion of the plans in question and I have e-mailed
them to Jennifer.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Earl Luce
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
I'm sure that Jim Irwin would like to know . The lady in charge of the Wittman
plans is Jennifer Silvey jennifersilvey@aircraftspruce.com She is a great gal
and will take care of it .
Earl Luce
----- Original Message -----
From: Louis Owen
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Someone better see to it that Acft. Spruce gets this information.
Lou Former 6PJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Mike, Steve's plans did have the plywood plates shown on the plans. Aircraft Spruce
is responsible for the plywood omission, They had someone in Canada redraw
the plans and that is the way they came back. I agree it is inexcusable that
they send out something like that without adding at least a revision drawing
attached. Spruce has no idea what a Tailwind is, only $. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruhnke, Mike
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 Wing
Revisiting the wing root fuselage connection.
My plan set, #1137, did not clearly state that plywood doublers were to be installed
at the root of the main spar. In an amateur built aircraft such a detail
being left rule-of-thumb is inexcusable. As I understand it Steve did not draw
the plans, a fellow he gave flight lessons to did them.
Last night I preliminarily evaluated the spar material without the plywood doublers.
It is very weak loaded perpendicular to the grain. When I added plywood
to the sides of another test sample I was unable to break the sample in my simple
loading device. I will prepare better samples and test them in a manner
that I can put numbers to the forces required to fracture the samples. But for
now bottom line. Since so many plan sets went out without clearly calling
out for the plywood. I recommend that if you are not sure the plywood is in there
cut an inspection hole in the bottom surface of the wing and have a look.
HAD I NOT BEEN A MEMBER OF THIS LIST I WOULD NEVER HAD CAUGHT MY MISTAKE AND THAT
MISTAKE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE KILLED ME AND ANY UNFORTUNATE SOUL WHO HAD PUT
THERE LIFE IN MY HANDS BY ACCEPTING A RIDE FROM ME. The mistake I mention
would be a mistake only recognized by an experienced builder. Once you close
a Tailwind wing it makes it very difficult to inspect.
Mike Ruhnke
Mechanical Engineer, BSME University of Illinois
From the accident report on N654 1999.
TESTS AND RESEARCH
The inboard 15-inches of the right wing spar was sent to the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) Forest Product Laboratory, Madison,
Wisconsin, for examination.
According to an examination report, provided by USDA Forest Product
Laboratory, the accident wing spar was constructed of Sitka Spruce (Picea
sitchensis). The failure surface of the spar was, "...spilt cleanly into
two pieces by a force that was perpendicular to the direction of the
grain." The report further stated, "It appears that the bolt holes that
were drilled through the spars to accept the 1/4-inch bolts were not all
drilled perpendicular to the spar's outer surfaces." Examination of the
second hole from the inboard end, "suggests that this particular hole was
drilled twice to make the bolt for this connection fit." The report
stated, "...the holes that are on either side of the spar are not evenly
spaced. There is also considerable difference in the diameter of the
middle two holes relative to the diameter of the outer two holes."
The full USDA Forest Product Laboratory examination report is attached to
this report.
---
Message 5
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
The original plans called for 1/16" birch plywood on the front spar root.
Jim C
Message 6
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
Thanks for the correction.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim and
Donna Clement
Subject: Tailwind-List: W10 wing
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
The original plans called for 1/16" birch plywood on the front spar root.
Jim C
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
Malcolm, we really wanted to be there, but we left on the 4th to spend 9
days at the cottage and did not know the gathering was for the following
weekend. We would have flown over if we would have known. Maybe we should
have one down in Ohio somewhere.
Steve -in Michigan
>From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:38:58 -0400
>
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
>
>Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. Sorry we missed you.
>
>Malcolm
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM
> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> >
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> > <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you really think? :)
> >
> > Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee for now.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700
> > >
> > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn something from others that
> > >have
> > >been there......
> > >
> > >First of all.... There is no substitute for Horsepower AND
>Altitude....
> > >From Aviator 1.
> > >
> > >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an engine? You already did
>it
> > >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving money by only going
> > with
> > >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 - $10,000..... and
> > then
> > >you will fly it....."Recreationally"?
> > >
> > >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you might take your wife or
> > >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for a ride. Then you
> > decide
> > >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you along with some
> > Pepsi's..
> > >Have to have some weight for this example... Oh boy, you're both
> > excited
> > >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have discovered a neat
>little
> > >place where you can land and there is a small river nearby where you
>both
> > >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, all this
>"Recreational"
> > >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and head for the
>hills...
> > >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time to come home. It's
> > about
> > >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys will be up high in
>the
> > >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... First you have to
> > >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from where you are. But
> > hey,
> > >you know your plane, it will be no problem....... You take off all the
> > time
> > >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the throttle in to the
>stops....
> > >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it just a tad for more
> > >power...and you go and go and go and you aren't really setting the
> > world
> > >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to pucker some as you
> > >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the damn trees are getting
> > real
> > >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat of the day. Whew!!!
> > >you
> > >just made it over the tree's and around the big rock on the left. It
>is
> > at
> > >this moment that you will remember all these "devilish" emails about
> > >putting
> > >the right engine on in the first place. Of course, then you have to go
> > >home
> > >and explain to your wife how you need to spend a bunch more money now
>for
> > >another engine. But first you have to buy her a bunch of new furniture
> > for
> > >the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. Of course, you tell
> > her
> > >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine you had in the first
> > >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even with ALL the cool
> > >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh wow, now you have a
> > 0-200
> > >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that really needs one of
> > those
> > >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere Kinda like Bob
> > Connors....
> > >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob.
> > >
> > >Just how much time and money do you have that you want to waste? Just
> > >imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased a nice 0-320 in the
> > >first place, just like Eric did...
> > >
> > >Weav
> > >
> > >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... hahahhaha.. I'm a
>bad,
> > >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model either. But at times,
> > I'm
> > >like that cute little angel.......trying to save your bacon.
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > >
> > > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the devil on one
>shoulder
> > >and
> > >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver would be?
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred
> > > > Weaver
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM
> > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > ><Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > >
> > > > Makes no difference...... Power is required....
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for recreation. Cross
> > >country
> > > > would be secondary.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Luc
>H.
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM
> > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or other airplane with a
> > single
> > > > digit
> > > > > wing loading.
> > > > > Luc
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM
> > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. Something around 100 hp.
> > I
> > > > don't
> > > > > want to go broke doing it. Help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike NW Illinois
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools
>and
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
Rich and others:
Fred and some others have heard my story about flying my W-8 from Sacramento to
Austin Texas. It was that trip that I made up my mind to get an O-320 to replace
the O-235. I had a takeoff much like what Fred described only mine was in
Arizona on a hot day, loaded to Gross, and high density altitude/no wind. The
prop I had also was very much a cruise prop for that engine as it would turn
up only about 2650 RPM max. The obstruction at the end of the runway was a
volcanic rocky, cactus covered hill that had no where to make any type of no-crash
landing. After the anemic takeoff using well over 1/2 the runway and struggle
to initially gain some appreciable altitude and airspeed, I finally got
the airspeed up to 100+ MPH where it would really start climbing--but that hill
when we went past it was way to close for my comfort. Fortunately my passenger
was not as concerned as me, and didn't know how worried I was. What was really
irritating was a 150 HP modified Cessna 150 too
k off just ahead of me and climbed like a bat out of hell with 2 people aboard--a
tailwind, clearly skunked by a C-150!
I had several other takeoffs in similar conditions later on that trip, but after
that one, I made sure I had really long runways with no obstructions. With
those facilities the lack of power wasn't much of a problem, you just wait and
wait for the speed to come up so the wheels get off the ground, then wait some
more for more speed to come up so you can climb--I love 10,000 ft runways when
there is high density altitude. ;
)
Dave
-------------- Original message from "mytyweav@earthlink.net" : --------------
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "mytyweav@earthlink.net"
>
>
> You know Rich.... When I wrote that thing, I was laughing and trying very
> hard to illustrate what really happens. After I wrote it, I called Luc and
> shared it with him but it was verbal and I was able to say it the way I
> wrote it. Luc was laughing so hard and I knew I was on the right track.
>
> BUT, after reading it, I didn't know if the humorous side of the text would
> make it thru to the reader. I'm really glad you were laughing while reading
> it.
>
> Actually, it's not a laughing matter BUT it is oh so true..
>
> It's really tough sometimes when you are trying to "encourage" someone to
> make a good decision. AND it's not fair to just TELL them what to do.
>
> I have learned quite a bit since 1966 when I took my first flying lesson.
> I've had a lot of interesting experiences but I've truly enjoyed all my
> Tailwind time since 1983 when I bought my first one.
> The story I sent to Mike sorta... Illustrates what happens in the real
> world. No matter what one thinks his "mission" is, the mission can be
> revised once the plane starts to fly. It's really difficult to try and let
> the "dreamer/builders" know what is really going to happen with time. I
> only hope I was able "with tongue in cheek" to actually illustrate what
> happens in a real situation.
>
> The takeoff I wrote about actually happened to me with different
> circumstances.. It actually happened with me and my son in a Long EZ with
> a Lyc 0-235 L2C. It happened after landing at a real airport, loading up
> only 10 gallons of gas (to stay light) and then heading for home. The
> runway was over 4500 feet long but the temp was about 85 degrees or so..
> Wind was somewhat iffy at best(very light winds on the nose). The important
> thing to know is this... I had been flying well powered Tailwinds for more
> than 11 years at the time. In that period of time, I had NEVER had a
> takeoff that I nearly had to abort. This is because all my Tailwinds were
> never UNDERPOWERED. My first one had a Lyc 0-290-D2, the 2nd and 3rd had
> 0-300 Continentals, and finally the nice one that I fly now has a Lyc
> 0-360. I will never forget my thoughts after that Long Ez takeoff. I
> thought to myself, "I have never ever had a takeoff experience like that
> when I was flying my Tailwinds". Like, I never ever had to think about
> whether or not I was going to abort a take off in a Tailwind. That day, I
> learned so much about having just a tad more power than what was really
> required. It's about safety. I had my youngest son with me that day and we
> were flying home from the air races in Nevada. Doesn't matter how nice the
> airplane is.... What matters is what you have for reliable horse power.
>
> Hoping my thoughts made it through to the majority with the laughs that
> Rich had....
> Humble Weav
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Rich and others:
Fred and some others have heard my story about flying my W-8 from Sacramento to
Austin Texas. It was that trip that I made up my mind to get an O-320 to replace
the O-235. I had a takeoff much like what Fred described only mine wasin Arizona
on a hot day, loaded to Gross, and high density altitude/no wind. The propI
had also was very much a cruiseprop for that engine as it would turn up only
about 2650 RPM max. The obstructionat the end of the runway was a volcanic
rocky, cactus covered hill that had no where to make any type ofno-crash landing.
After the anemic takeoff using well over 1/2 the runway and struggle toinitially
gainsome appreciable altitude and airspeed, I finallygot the airspeed
up to 100+ MPH where it would really start climbing--butthat hill when we wentpast
itwas way to close for my comfort. Fortunately my passenger was not as concerned
as me, and didn't
know how worried I was. What was really irritating was a 150 HP modified Cessna
150 took off just ahead of me and climbed like a bat out of hell with 2 people
aboard--a tailwind, clearly skunked by a C-150!
I had several other takeoffsin similar conditions later on that trip, but after
that one, I made sure I had reallylong runways with no obstructions. Withthose
facilitiesthe lack of power wasn't much of a problem,you just wait and wait
for the speed to come up so the wheels get off the ground, then wait some more
for more speed to come up so you can climb--I love 10,000 ft runways when there
is high density altitude. ;
)
Dave
-------------- Original message from "mytyweav@earthlink.net" <MYTYWEAV@EARTHLINK.NET>:
--------------
-- Tailwind-List message posted by: "mytyweav@earthlink.net"
<MYTYWEAV@EARTHLINK.NET>
You know Rich.... When I wrote that thing, I was laughing and trying very
hard to illustrate what really happens. After I wrote it, I called Luc and
shared it with him but it was verbal and I was able to say it the way I
wrote it. Luc was laughing so hard and I knew I was on the right track.
BUT, after reading it, I didn't know if the humorous side of the text would
make it thru to the reader. I'm really glad you were laughing while reading
it.
Actually, it's not a laughing matter BUT it is oh so true..
It's really tough sometimes when you are trying to "encourage"
someone to
make a good decision. AND it's not fair to just TELL them what to do.
I have learned quite a bit since 1966 when I took my first flying lesson.
I've had a lot of interesting experiences but I've truly enjoyed all my
Tailwind time since 1983 when I bought my first one.
The story I sent to Mike sorta... Illustrates what happens in the real
world. No matter what one thinks his "mission" is, the mission can be
revised once the plane starts to fly. It's really difficult to try and let
the "dreamer/builders" know what is really going to happen with time. I
only hope I was able "with tongue in cheek" to actually illustrate what
happens in a real situation.
The takeoff I wrote about actually happened to me with different
circumstances.. It actually happened with me and my son in a Long EZ with
a Lyc 0-235 L2C. It happened after landing at
a real airport, loading up
only 10 gallons of gas (to stay light) and then heading for home. The
runway was over 4500 feet long but the temp was about 85 degrees or so..
Wind was somewhat iffy at best(very light winds on the nose). The important
thing to know is this... I had been flying well powered Tailwinds for more
than 11 years at the time. In that period of time, I had NEVER had a
takeoff that I nearly had to abort. This is because all my Tailwinds were
never UNDERPOWERED. My first one had a Lyc 0-290-D2, the 2nd and 3rd had
0-300 Continentals, and finally the nice one that I fly now has a Lyc
0-360. I will never forget my thoughts after that Long Ez takeoff. I
thought to myself, "I have never ever had a takeoff experience like that
when I was flying my Tailwinds". Like, I never ever had to think about
whether or not I was going to abort a take off in a Tailwind
. That day, I
learned so much about having just a tad more power than what was really
required. It's about safety. I had my youngest son with me that day and we
were flying home from the air races in Nevada. Doesn't matter how nice the
airplane is.... What matters is what you have for reliable horse power.
Hoping my thoughts made it through to the majority with the laughs that
Rich had....
Humble Weav
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Copperstate Flyin |
We have the West Coast Tailwind Flyin at Fresno on October 16 still don't we?
I need to mail some notices I think.
Dave
-------------- Original message from George Turner : --------------
Anyone comming to the fall flyin?
http://www.copperstate.org/index.htm
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We have the West Coast Tailwind Flyin at Fresno on October 16 still don't we? I
need to mail some notices I think.
Dave
-------------- Original message from George Turner <TAILWIND222@YAHOO.COM>: --------------
Anyone comming to the fall flyin?
http://www.copperstate.org/index.htm
<IMG height=69 src="http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:2DoNT7N_sVwJ:www.t1aviation.com/Images/logos/CS-Flyin-160.gif" width=92>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
No, I can't sell them. They can be purchased through Dave Stamsta. They are part
of a wing kit that Dave sells.
David Stamsta at:
David.Stamsta@win-na.com
home phone is 608-850-5751
Work is 608-825-5244
This kit has saved me countless hours durring the build. The spars are pre-cut
and CNC machined. Gussets are pre cut also. all of the wing hardware is available.
Message 11
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<TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin |
Sorry for the double posting--to both lists, but who all might attend a Tailwind
gathering at Fresno Chandler. As I remember from a month or so ago, we would
have had a half a dozen tailwinds as well as a few others.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Riley
To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Re: Tailwind-List: Copperstate Flyin
Dave my calendar still has that date set aside. However I have not heard from
anyone except you.
Chuck Riley
Fresno, Chandler Airport.
riley.nancy@comcast.net
The Tailwind Forum group site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum
ADVERTISEMENT
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TailwindForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
Sounds like ole Davey has a good kit going..... Just another good package for
new builders.
Does it include all the plywood sheeting or does the builder still provide that?
Weav
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Ribs Complete
No, I can't sell them. They can be purchased through Dave Stamsta. They are part
of a wing kit that Dave sells.
David Stamsta at:
David.Stamsta@win-na.com
home phone is 608-850-5751
Work is 608-825-5244
This kit has saved me countless hours durring the build. The spars are pre-cut
and CNC machined. Gussets are pre cut also. all of the wing hardware is available.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin |
I'm planning on being there. Wouldn't miss it... Hey, we have to get more Tailwinds
than those Michigan guys.. BTW, Chandler has a really neat lobby with
a lot of historical pictures and stuff..
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin
Sorry for the double posting--to both lists, but who all might attend a Tailwind
gathering at Fresno Chandler. As I remember from a month or so ago, we would
have had a half a dozen tailwinds as well as a few others.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Riley
To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Re: Tailwind-List: Copperstate Flyin
Dave my calendar still has that date set aside. However I have not heard from
anyone except you.
Chuck Riley
Fresno, Chandler Airport.
riley.nancy@comcast.net
The Tailwind Forum group site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum
ADVERTISEMENT
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TailwindForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg. |
Jack: Danny's engine and prop are warmed up pretty good.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Steele
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg.
Hi group, Why does Danny's W8 go so fast? My cruise is 152 MPH and top speed
at 2500 feet AGL is 165 but cruise at 160 on a 0-200 Continental. NO way. Suggestions?
Jack Steele
W8 C-FSNY
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg. |
Haven't got real hard performance numbers yet, but Danny's engine is off a Cassutt
and seems to be real strong, and the prop will wind the stem off an eight
day clock. I'm sure well get some better numbers later. Not interested in pissin'
and moanin' about a few miles an hour one way or the other.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg.
Jack, I was just guessing since Rick didn't really give us a number. I know better....
I owned the sister ship and with a Lyc 0-290 D2, the fastest I could
cruise or top out was 163 mph. I can imagine Dan's plane going maybe 160 or
a bit slower. But his rate of climb will be nothing to write home about.
Right Rick????
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Steele
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re Tailwinds and Fred's mpg.
Hi group, Why does Danny's W8 go so fast? My cruise is 152 MPH and top speed
at 2500 feet AGL is 165 but cruise at 160 on a 0-200 Continental. NO way. Suggestions?
Jack Steele
W8 C-FSNY
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
CJ,
Looking at the picture of the ribs you attached, I am wondering.... where is that
symmetrical rib used??
(wing tip??) I recognize the full size wing (semi-symmetrical) rib above it...
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
To: Tailwind List
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:45 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Ribs Complete
Hey guys,
We just completed our ribs for N540CJ. The wing kit sure made it easy to build
perfect ribs. I'm looking forward to putting them on the spars next week. I
hope my tubing order comes in from Wicks soon. I have sent a picture of some of
the completed ribs, and the CNC cut rib jigs. I hope the file is small enough.
They are on the lowest resolution camera setting. I'm still loooking for an
O-320, if anyone knows of any good steals.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 17
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| Subject: | compression springs |
You can wind your own springs on a mandrel using .062 music wire.
Paul
pholmes@wmis.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
Yes the symmetrical rib is for the wing tip.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis" <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
IF THIS THIS STORY TELLING TIME, I'LL TELL MINE.
About 15 years ago, Fourth of July, my wife and I left the lowlands of
northeast Texas and flew in our 125 hp W-8 to Angel Fire NM where the
airport elevation is 8483' ASL. Going out had some
excitement with the takeoff after a stop at Roy, NM (5000' ASL). After a
bite of lunch, found the wind had increased considerably and the direction
was 90 degrees to the mile long caliche runway, 'with weeds'. Although,
mixture was used and one notch of flaps, the W-8 could not
generate enough speed to overcome the rough runway and the cross wind.
After reaching
near the point of 'no return' I kicked right rudder and pointed N4090K into
the wind. Immediately
we were at 25' AGL and heading west.
The second part of this tale is that we met a friend, a AF retired
fighter pilot and wife and stayed with them until time to return to Texas.
With plenty of runway and pratically no wind, took off to the south although
the runway has a slight incline going that direction. The Tailwind flew off
in about 3000' of the runway's length but I could not make myself pull back
on the stick--the
AS indicator was near ZERO. With any notch of flaps the static port played
tricks with AS indicator. Hence, flew a few feet above runway until reached
point where I was high enough to turn and go north. Our friends were
watching and laughing because we circled the airport five or six time
gaining altitude to go over the near by mountains (11,500 ASL). From there,
down hill all the way home.
A W-8 w/ 125 hp can work in the high country although it now has 160
hp.
>From: dmagaw@att.net
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:57:40 +0000
>
>Rich and others:
>Fred and some others have heard my story about flying my W-8 from
>Sacramento to Austin Texas. It was that trip that I made up my mind to get
>an O-320 to replace the O-235. I had a takeoff much like what Fred
>described only mine was in Arizona on a hot day, loaded to Gross, and high
>density altitude/no wind. The prop I had also was very much a cruise prop
>for that engine as it would turn up only about 2650 RPM max. The
>obstruction at the end of the runway was a volcanic rocky, cactus covered
>hill that had no where to make any type of no-crash landing. After the
>anemic takeoff using well over 1/2 the runway and struggle to initially
>gain some appreciable altitude and airspeed, I finally got the airspeed up
>to 100+ MPH where it would really start climbing--but that hill when we
>went past it was way to close for my comfort. Fortunately my passenger was
>not as concerned as me, and didn't know how worried I was. What was really
>irritating was a 150 HP modified Cessna 150 too
> k off just ahead of me and climbed like a bat out of hell with 2 people
>aboard--a tailwind, clearly skunked by a C-150!
>
>I had several other takeoffs in similar conditions later on that trip, but
>after that one, I made sure I had really long runways with no obstructions.
> With those facilities the lack of power wasn't much of a problem, you
>just wait and wait for the speed to come up so the wheels get off the
>ground, then wait some more for more speed to come up so you can climb--I
>love 10,000 ft runways when there is high density altitude. ;
)
>Dave
>
>
>-------------- Original message from "mytyweav@earthlink.net" :
>--------------
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "mytyweav@earthlink.net"
> >
> >
> > You know Rich.... When I wrote that thing, I was laughing and trying
>very
> > hard to illustrate what really happens. After I wrote it, I called Luc
>and
> > shared it with him but it was verbal and I was able to say it the way I
> > wrote it. Luc was laughing so hard and I knew I was on the right track.
> >
> > BUT, after reading it, I didn't know if the humorous side of the text
>would
> > make it thru to the reader. I'm really glad you were laughing while
>reading
> > it.
> >
> > Actually, it's not a laughing matter BUT it is oh so true..
> >
> > It's really tough sometimes when you are trying to "encourage" someone
>to
> > make a good decision. AND it's not fair to just TELL them what to do.
> >
> > I have learned quite a bit since 1966 when I took my first flying
>lesson.
> > I've had a lot of interesting experiences but I've truly enjoyed all my
> > Tailwind time since 1983 when I bought my first one.
> > The story I sent to Mike sorta... Illustrates what happens in the real
> > world. No matter what one thinks his "mission" is, the mission can be
> > revised once the plane starts to fly. It's really difficult to try and
>let
> > the "dreamer/builders" know what is really going to happen with time. I
> > only hope I was able "with tongue in cheek" to actually illustrate what
> > happens in a real situation.
> >
> > The takeoff I wrote about actually happened to me with different
> > circumstances.. It actually happened with me and my son in a Long EZ
>with
> > a Lyc 0-235 L2C. It happened after landing at a real airport, loading up
> > only 10 gallons of gas (to stay light) and then heading for home. The
> > runway was over 4500 feet long but the temp was about 85 degrees or so..
> > Wind was somewhat iffy at best(very light winds on the nose). The
>important
> > thing to know is this... I had been flying well powered Tailwinds for
>more
> > than 11 years at the time. In that period of time, I had NEVER had a
> > takeoff that I nearly had to abort. This is because all my Tailwinds
>were
> > never UNDERPOWERED. My first one had a Lyc 0-290-D2, the 2nd and 3rd had
> > 0-300 Continentals, and finally the nice one that I fly now has a Lyc
> > 0-360. I will never forget my thoughts after that Long Ez takeoff. I
> > thought to myself, "I have never ever had a takeoff experience like that
> > when I was flying my Tailwinds". Like, I never ever had to think about
> > whether or not I was going to abort a take off in a Tailwind. That day,
>I
> > learned so much about having just a tad more power than what was really
> > required. It's about safety. I had my youngest son with me that day and
>we
> > were flying home from the air races in Nevada. Doesn't matter how nice
>the
> > airplane is.... What matters is what you have for reliable horse power.
> >
> > Hoping my thoughts made it through to the majority with the laughs that
> > Rich had....
> > Humble Weav
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
Man, that is one FAT tip rib...... Are you sure?
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Ribs Complete
Yes the symmetrical rib is for the wing tip.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
I am sure we could have one at KUYF, which is 6 miles from my strip or if
everyone wants to try my 1850 ft strip. We can have it at my place any
weekend. I have 3 Tailwinds under construction.
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Doughty" <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
<usaviator1@hotmail.com>
>
> Malcolm, we really wanted to be there, but we left on the 4th to spend 9
> days at the cottage and did not know the gathering was for the following
> weekend. We would have flown over if we would have known. Maybe we
should
> have one down in Ohio somewhere.
>
> Steve -in Michigan
>
>
> >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com
> >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:38:58 -0400
> >
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
> >
> >Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. Sorry we missed you.
> >
> >Malcolm
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM
> > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> > > <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you really think? :)
> > >
> > > Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee for now.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700
> > > >
> > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > >
> > > >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn something from others
that
> > > >have
> > > >been there......
> > > >
> > > >First of all.... There is no substitute for Horsepower AND
> >Altitude....
> > > >From Aviator 1.
> > > >
> > > >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an engine? You already did
> >it
> > > >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving money by only
going
> > > with
> > > >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 - $10,000..... and
> > > then
> > > >you will fly it....."Recreationally"?
> > > >
> > > >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you might take your wife
or
> > > >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for a ride. Then you
> > > decide
> > > >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you along with some
> > > Pepsi's..
> > > >Have to have some weight for this example... Oh boy, you're both
> > > excited
> > > >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have discovered a neat
> >little
> > > >place where you can land and there is a small river nearby where you
> >both
> > > >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, all this
> >"Recreational"
> > > >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and head for the
> >hills...
> > > >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time to come home. It's
> > > about
> > > >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys will be up high in
> >the
> > > >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... First you have to
> > > >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from where you are. But
> > > hey,
> > > >you know your plane, it will be no problem....... You take off all
the
> > > time
> > > >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the throttle in to the
> >stops....
> > > >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it just a tad for
more
> > > >power...and you go and go and go and you aren't really setting the
> > > world
> > > >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to pucker some as
you
> > > >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the damn trees are
getting
> > > real
> > > >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat of the day.
Whew!!!
> > > >you
> > > >just made it over the tree's and around the big rock on the left. It
> >is
> > > at
> > > >this moment that you will remember all these "devilish" emails about
> > > >putting
> > > >the right engine on in the first place. Of course, then you have to
go
> > > >home
> > > >and explain to your wife how you need to spend a bunch more money now
> >for
> > > >another engine. But first you have to buy her a bunch of new
furniture
> > > for
> > > >the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. Of course, you
tell
> > > her
> > > >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine you had in the
first
> > > >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even with ALL the cool
> > > >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh wow, now you have a
> > > 0-200
> > > >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that really needs one of
> > > those
> > > >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere Kinda like Bob
> > > Connors....
> > > >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob.
> > > >
> > > >Just how much time and money do you have that you want to waste?
Just
> > > >imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased a nice 0-320 in
the
> > > >first place, just like Eric did...
> > > >
> > > >Weav
> > > >
> > > >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... hahahhaha.. I'm a
> >bad,
> > > >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model either. But at
times,
> > > I'm
> > > >like that cute little angel.......trying to save your bacon.
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the devil on one
> >shoulder
> > > >and
> > > >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver would be?
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred
> > > > > Weaver
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM
> > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > ><Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Makes no difference...... Power is required....
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for recreation. Cross
> > > >country
> > > > > would be secondary.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Luc
> >H.
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM
> > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H."
<4luc@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or other airplane with a
> > > single
> > > > > digit
> > > > > > wing loading.
> > > > > > Luc
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. Something around 100
hp.
> > > I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > want to go broke doing it. Help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike NW Illinois
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools
> >and
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering |
i'll second that.
Tell the story about Wally ordering lunch at Sam's.
The owner was trying to sell him on the "Big Joint Burger" and Wally could
not stop laughing long enough to order it.
i think it may replace the "Butter Burger" as Wally's favorite.
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
Race coming up this weekend at Whiteside Co West of Rockford, IL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Downing" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Subject: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering
> Fred; You fellows are going to have a hard time besting us on the fly-in,
> unless you can convince Wally to come. That ole gent has some tricks up
his
> sleeve that are hard to duplicate at any fly-in. Hehehehehe! JohnD
> ---
> Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 9/13/04
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> The Tailwind Forum group site is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> TailwindForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net>
Dennis, what's with the 50k postage stamp, I couldn't make out what was on
it even with a magnifier?
----- Original Message -----
From: "flamini2" <flamini2@comcast.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering
i'll second that.
Tell the story about Wally ordering lunch at Sam's.
The owner was trying to sell him on the "Big Joint Burger" and Wally could
not stop laughing long enough to order it.
i think it may replace the "Butter Burger" as Wally's favorite.
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
Race coming up this weekend at Whiteside Co West of Rockford, IL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Downing" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Subject: [TailwindForum] Michigan gathering
> Fred; You fellows are going to have a hard time besting us on the fly-in,
> unless you can convince Wally to come. That ole gent has some tricks up
his
> sleeve that are hard to duplicate at any fly-in. Hehehehehe! JohnD
> ---
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Ribs Complete |
Yes, I'm sure. The photo I sent is deceptive. It does not show any of the full
size main ribs. The rib in question is the one of the wing tip ribs. There is
a smaller rib, that is not shown in the pic. It will be built when we fit the
ribs to the spars, and finish the wood wing tips. I have attached a picture of
all of the completed ribs except for the rib at the tip of the wing.
If the photo file is to large please let me know. If it is ok then I will use this
resolution to send photos to the group.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin |
Sorry, we cannot make it.
I know, Weaver says postpone our wedding annaversery. He could do that, I can't!
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin
I'm planning on being there. Wouldn't miss it... Hey, we have to get more Tailwinds
than those Michigan guys.. BTW, Chandler has a really neat lobby with
a lot of historical pictures and stuff..
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list ; TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: West Coast Tailwind Flyin
Sorry for the double posting--to both lists, but who all might attend a Tailwind
gathering at Fresno Chandler. As I remember from a month or so ago, we
would have had a half a dozen tailwinds as well as a few others.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Riley
To: TailwindForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Re: Tailwind-List: Copperstate Flyin
Dave my calendar still has that date set aside. However I have not heard
from anyone except you.
Chuck Riley
Fresno, Chandler Airport.
riley.nancy@comcast.net
The Tailwind Forum group site is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TailwindForum
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Message 26
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Fred,
I didn't answer one of your questions. The plywood skins are Okume
The spars are either spruce or fir. The fir spars are pocketed to remove some of
the weight. The fixtures for the aileron and flaps are included also. David
Stamsta could better describe the kit he is offering.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
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