Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:02 AM - Re: Ohio Weekend (Lovelace)
2. 05:07 AM - Re: twheel and control rod (Rick)
3. 05:32 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (William Bernard)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: The Tuttercup (Joe Maj)
5. 09:08 AM - Re: $$$seats $$$ (CRAIG LAPORTE)
6. 01:08 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Kayberg@aol.com)
7. 02:34 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Keith)
8. 03:40 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (flamini2)
9. 04:16 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Keith Imel)
10. 04:46 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Earl Luce)
11. 04:57 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Earl Luce)
12. 04:59 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Fred Weaver)
13. 05:26 PM - Re: Ohio Weekend (Stephen Doughty)
14. 07:46 PM - Before and after (Bob Conner)
15. 08:18 PM - Re: Before and after (James E. Wagner Jr.)
16. 08:20 PM - Re: Before and after (Dan)
17. 08:29 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Joe Maj)
18. 10:01 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Keith Imel)
19. 11:09 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Jim and Donna Clement)
20. 11:28 PM - Re: N540CJ (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind)
21. 11:54 PM - Re: The Tuttercup (Keith Imel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Weekend |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
John, If you and Eric can make it on the 16th we will have it then. I can do
either or both.
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Downing" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
Subject: Tailwind-List: Ohio Weekend
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "John Downing"
<frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>
> Sorry fellas; Marys Birthday that weekend,(8th) just don't dare make it.
> Weaver could come in from California quicker that I can make it down in
the
> Colt. Hey Wally, we would have to put out the pilot light in the tent, if
> camping out, hold the Mexican food. JohnD Don"t Archive...
> ---
> Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 9/13/04
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: twheel and control rod |
Dan: A Tailwind ride is always good, but I'm especially glad you finally got a
ride in her.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:34 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: twheel and control rod
Malcolm,
Got it all on but the springs. Didn't have time to put those on. that Rick Crosslin
guy showed up. Got to RIDE IN IT instead of work on it. :-) Rick said
the wheel is much better, but he likes the softer one with the big rubber on
it. I taxied it after Rick left and it seemed like it required considerably
less force to turn and had finer graduation. The old one had 2.5 inches at the
rudder horn and 2 inches at the wheel. Now it is the same both places so that
had to slow it down some. Also it was binding before full rudder deflection,
and I got that fixed. Pic attached. THANKS RICK, you don't know how bad
I needed that ride.
-Danny
Subject:
RE: N540CJ
From:
Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com
Date:
Fri Sep 17 - 3:40 AM
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com Danny, have
you tried the new trim springs and the steering rod? Malcolm
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "William Bernard" <billbernard@worldnet.att.net>
The 9th sounds good to me.
Bill
N40WB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Doughty" <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
<usaviator1@hotmail.com>
>
> The 9th would be good for us, and if the wx stinks, the 16th would be a
good
> back up.
>
> Anybody else have input? Eric? JohnD? Paul? Brian? Jerry? Dennis?
> Anybody........ Weav??? :)
>
> Steve
>
>
> >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com
> >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:25:09 -0400
> >
> >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
> >
> >Steve, 9th or the 16th which ever is best for everybody. The GPS cord.
for
> >my place N 39 55.067, W 083 34.237. For those that can't land on my strip
> >KUFY is 6 miles and I will provide shuttle service. I will fire up the
gas
> >grill and we can have hamburgers and hot dogs for lunch. Just let me know
> >what day works best.
> >
> >Malcolm
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:09 AM
> > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > >
> > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> > > <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Well, WX permitting, I would say the 9th or 10th, or maybe the 16th or
> > > 17th.
> > > We were planning a 3 day weekend up north on Oct. 1st.
> > >
> > > I would really like to see the projects you have down there, and I am
> >sure
> > >
> > > there are several others that would too.
> > >
> > > Thanks for volunteering this too.
> > >
> > > Steve -in Michigan
> > >
> > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com
> > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:41:51 -0400
> > > >
> > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
> > > >
> > > >Steve KUYF is 6 miles if you don't want to chance it. When is a good
> >time
> > > >for everyone? Some Saturday in Oct.?
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:59 AM
> > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > > >
> > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> > > > > <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Malcolm, I think that would be great, just give me notice as to
when
> > > and
> > > > > we
> > > > > will make plans.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will have to practice up on my short field TO & landings. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve -in Michigan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
> > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:27:01 -0400
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace"
> > > <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I am sure we could have one at KUYF, which is 6 miles from my
strip
> > > or
> > > >if
> > > > > >everyone wants to try my 1850 ft strip. We can have it at my
place
> > > any
> > > > > >weekend. I have 3 Tailwinds under construction.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Malcolm
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Stephen Doughty" <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> > > > > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:36 AM
> > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> > > > > ><usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Malcolm, we really wanted to be there, but we left on the 4th
to
> > > >spend
> > > > > 9
> > > > > > > days at the cottage and did not know the gathering was for the
> > > > > following
> > > > > > > weekend. We would have flown over if we would have known.
> >Maybe
> > > we
> > > > > >should
> > > > > > > have one down in Ohio somewhere.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:38:58 -0400
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by:
> > > >Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. Sorry we
missed
> > > >you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Malcolm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a
Tailwind
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty"
> > > > > > > > > <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you really think?
:)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee for now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > > > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > > > > > > > <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn something
from
> > > > > others
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > >have
> > > > > > > > > >been there......
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >First of all.... There is no substitute for Horsepower
> >AND
> > > > > > > >Altitude....
> > > > > > > > > >From Aviator 1.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an engine? You
> > > >already
> > > > >
> > > > > >did
> > > > > > > >it
> > > > > > > > > >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving money
by
> > > >only
> > > > > >going
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 -
> >$10,000.....
> > > > >
> > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > >you will fly it....."Recreationally"?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you might
take
> > > your
> > > > > >wife
> > > > > >or
> > > > > > > > > >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for a
ride.
> > > >Then
> > > > > >you
> > > > > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you along
with
> > > >some
> > > > > > > > > Pepsi's..
> > > > > > > > > >Have to have some weight for this example... Oh boy,
> >you're
> > > > > both
> > > > > > > > > excited
> > > > > > > > > >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have
discovered
> >a
> > > >neat
> > > > > > > >little
> > > > > > > > > >place where you can land and there is a small river
nearby
> > > >where
> > > > > >you
> > > > > > > >both
> > > > > > > > > >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, all this
> > > > > > > >"Recreational"
> > > > > > > > > >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and head
for
> > > the
> > > > > > > >hills...
> > > > > > > > > >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time to come
> > > home.
> > > > > >It's
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys will
be
> >up
> > > > > high
> > > > > >in
> > > > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... First you
> >have
> > >
> > > >to
> > > > > > > > > >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from where
you
> > > >are.
> > > > >
> > > > > >But
> > > > > > > > > hey,
> > > > > > > > > >you know your plane, it will be no problem....... You
take
> > > off
> > > > > all
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the throttle in
to
> > > the
> > > > > > > >stops....
> > > > > > > > > >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it just a
> >tad
> > >
> > > >for
> > > > > >more
> > > > > > > > > >power...and you go and go and go and you aren't really
> > > >setting
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > > > >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to
pucker
> > > some
> > > > > as
> > > > > >you
> > > > > > > > > >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the damn
trees
> > > are
> > > > > >getting
> > > > > > > > > real
> > > > > > > > > >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat of
the
> > > day.
> > > > > >Whew!!!
> > > > > > > > > >you
> > > > > > > > > >just made it over the tree's and around the big rock on
the
> > > >left.
> > > > >
> > > > > >It
> > > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > >this moment that you will remember all these "devilish"
> > > emails
> > > > > >about
> > > > > > > > > >putting
> > > > > > > > > >the right engine on in the first place. Of course, then
> >you
> > > >have
> > > > >
> > > > > >to
> > > > > >go
> > > > > > > > > >home
> > > > > > > > > >and explain to your wife how you need to spend a bunch
more
> > > >money
> > > > >
> > > > > >now
> > > > > > > >for
> > > > > > > > > >another engine. But first you have to buy her a bunch of
> >new
> > > > > >furniture
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. Of
> > > course,
> > > > > you
> > > > > >tell
> > > > > > > > > her
> > > > > > > > > >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine you had
> >in
> > > >the
> > > > > >first
> > > > > > > > > >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even with
ALL
> > > the
> > > > > cool
> > > > > > > > > >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh wow,
now
> > > you
> > > > > have
> > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > > 0-200
> > > > > > > > > >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that really
> > > needs
> > > > > one
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere Kinda
like
> > > Bob
> > > > > > > > > Connors....
> > > > > > > > > >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Just how much time and money do you have that you want to
> > > >waste?
> > > > > >Just
> > > > > > > > > >imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased a
nice
> > > >0-320
> > > > > in
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > >first place, just like Eric did...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Weav
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know.....
> >hahahhaha..
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > >a
> > > > > > > >bad,
> > > > > > > > > >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model either.
> >But
> > >
> > > >at
> > > > > >times,
> > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > >like that cute little angel.......trying to save your
> >bacon.
> > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > > > > >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > > > > > > > > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the devil
on
> > > one
> > > > > > > >shoulder
> > > > > > > > > >and
> > > > > > > > > >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver would be?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On
> >Behalf
> > >
> > > >Of
> > > > > >Fred
> > > > > > > > > > > Weaver
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
> > > > > > > > > ><Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Makes no difference...... Power is required....
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > > > > > > > > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for
> >recreation.
> > > > > >Cross
> > > > > > > > > >country
> > > > > > > > > > > would be secondary.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On
> > > Behalf
> > > > > Of
> > > > > >Luc
> > > > > > > >H.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H."
> > > > > ><4luc@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or other
> >airplane
> > > > > with
> > > > > >a
> > > > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > > > > > digit
> > > > > > > > > > > > wing loading.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Luc
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" <ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, Mike"
> > > > > > > > > ><ruhnkem@rayovac.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. Something
> > > around
> > > > > 100
> > > > > >hp.
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > > want to go broke doing it. Help.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mike NW Illinois
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus
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> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for
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Message 4
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d="scan'217,208"; a="268991150:sNHT18715096"
| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Wind tunnel data says: the 2412 airfoil used on the BC, should gain little, if
any benefit from the leading edge flap.
(Figure 136 and text, page 230-231 of paperback edition, "Theory of Wing Sections"
by Abbott and von Doenhoff). The same statement applies to any of the stock
NACA 4 and 5 digit airfoils, including the 4309.
The leading edge skin, ribs, and spar are made from 0.020" 2024T3 sheet. Except
in my case, because I add special magic to the rib making process, the ribs end
up 2024T6. I'll put lightening holes in the ribs , and maybe the spar (not
in the drawings).
Another scheme that would be VERY effective would be a slotted trailing edge flap.
The drawback is the actuation mechanism is more complex.
Joe Maj
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I have thought that a W10 with the leading edge flaps would have an even better
speed range. Maybe a hidden hinge could be developed for them. Key would
be to keep the weight down.
Keith
Message 5
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "CRAIG LAPORTE" <claporte75@msn.com>
automotive upholstery handbook by Don Taylor...$20
leather hide from Jart, Inc....$110
custom seat back embroidery $32
walking foot sewing machine from ebay...$350
Learning to sew is about half as hard as welding, etc. I had never touched a sewing
machine until about a month ago, and I am happy with the finished seats.
Just an option,
Craig
From: "Earl Luce" luceair@frontiernet.net
Subject: Tailwind-List: $$$seats $$$
I just got back from the upholstery shop with my new TW seats for an estimate ............holy
sh**
. The guy told me that he would try to keep it to $1000 but gave no promise .
I have to believe that with all the talant in this group that someone should take
up sewing !
Earl Luce
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
In a message dated 9/18/2004 10:03:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jjmaj@chartermi.net writes:
Wind tunnel data says: the 2412 airfoil used on the BC, should gain little,
if any benefit from the leading edge flap.
Would that be the same data that says the bumblebee is not capable of flight?
Someone should explain that to the Buttercup. It would seem from flight data
that the leading edge flap is exceptionally effective.
Doug Koenigsberg
Buttercup dreamer
Message 7
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[Keith] I have a question. After the fuselage has been sand blasted,
should it be sanded down before paint? Or does the paint adhere to the
rougher surface better.
[Keith] Keith Dornseif
[Keith] keith@dornseif.net
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Keith,
Paint it after blasting, no sanding required.
But as i have said in the past, if you left it bare it would still be ok after
you and your children are long gone.
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
[Keith] I have a question. After the fuselage has been sand blasted, should
it be sanded down before paint? Or does the paint adhere to the rougher surface
better.
[Keith] Keith Dornseif
[Keith] keith@dornseif.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
The fuselage should be primed and painted right away after sand blasting before
any rust has a chance to form. Wipe it down with reducer and clean rags to remove
any remaining dust and prime with epoxy primer. It will stick very well to
the sand blasted surface. I use a small touch up gun to reduce overspray. Then
follow with epoxy paint. My opinion is that this is better than powder coating.
Cheaper to!
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
[Keith] I have a question. After the fuselage has been sand blasted, should
it be sanded down before paint? Or does the paint adhere to the rougher surface
better.
[Keith] Keith Dornseif
[Keith] keith@dornseif.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Thanks Doug for the support . Without all the technical data ...........all I know
is when I pull the flap lever which is a automatic leading edge flap on the
Buttercup it feels like I hit a giant airbag in the sky . The controls come
alive and I point the nose where I want to land and that is where I land .Try
not to re-invent the wheel , Witt knew EXACTLY what he wanted and he proved it
in Buttercup for over 60 years and I hope to take it another 60. I have flown
most of the classic airplanes and none of them can hold a candle to this beautiful
machine .
Earl "the Buttercup guy "
----- Original Message -----
From: Kayberg@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
In a message dated 9/18/2004 10:03:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jjmaj@chartermi.net
writes:
Wind tunnel data says: the 2412 airfoil used on the BC, should gain little,
if any benefit from the leading edge flap.
Would that be the same data that says the bumblebee is not capable of flight?
Someone should explain that to the Buttercup. It would seem from flight data
that the leading edge flap is exceptionally effective.
Doug Koenigsberg
Buttercup dreamer
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Keith,
If you try to make a leading edge flap for the TW the problem is the twisting
moment without a rear strut .That is right from Witt himself .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I have thought that a W10 with the leading edge flaps would have an even better
speed range. Maybe a hidden hinge could be developed for them. Key would
be to keep the weight down.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Since the front is Buttercup and rear is Tailwind, then just call it Butterwind
! Maybe it will go faster all buttered up like that ! :)
Larry H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Flamini
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Joe,
Why not Tailcup, Butterwing?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
That's the horizontal stab? I checked the dimensions- they're pretty close
as is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Remember to increase the stab over the W-10 .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I'm firming up the plan for my project. I've decided to hybridize the
Buttercup and the Tailwind, hence the Tuttercup.
The wing and fuselage from firewall to the seats, will be Buttercup,
aft , W-10 including the empennage. The plane will be a tri-gear. Fuselage width
will be 42". While my research indicates the leading edge flap may be only
marginally beneficial, I'll use it anyway.
I'm looking at substituting aluminum for steel wherever feasible -
flaps, ailerons, horizontal stabilizer, flippers, rudder, control system components
- to save weight.
Joe Maj
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
YeeeeeHaaaaaaa!!! It's getting pretty "Deep" in here Martha.... :)
Weav
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Thanks Doug for the support . Without all the technical data ...........all I
know is when I pull the flap lever which is a automatic leading edge flap on
the Buttercup it feels like I hit a giant airbag in the sky . The controls come
alive and I point the nose where I want to land and that is where I land .Try
not to re-invent the wheel , Witt knew EXACTLY what he wanted and he proved
it in Buttercup for over 60 years and I hope to take it another 60. I have flown
most of the classic airplanes and none of them can hold a candle to this beautiful
machine .
Earl "the Buttercup guy "
----- Original Message -----
From: Kayberg@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
In a message dated 9/18/2004 10:03:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jjmaj@chartermi.net
writes:
Wind tunnel data says: the 2412 airfoil used on the BC, should gain little,
if any benefit from the leading edge flap.
Would that be the same data that says the bumblebee is not capable of flight?
Someone should explain that to the Buttercup. It would seem from flight data
that the leading edge flap is exceptionally effective.
Doug Koenigsberg
Buttercup dreamer
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Weekend |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
Hey guys, the 16th is good for us, but I will be gone the 23rd.
Steve
>From: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Ohio Weekend
>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:02:12 -0400
>
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
>
>John, If you and Eric can make it on the 16th we will have it then. I can
>do
>either or both.
>
>Malcolm
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Downing" <frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
>To: "tailwind" <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:47 PM
>Subject: Tailwind-List: Ohio Weekend
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "John Downing"
><frmrjohn@netonecom.net>
> >
> > Sorry fellas; Marys Birthday that weekend,(8th) just don't dare make
>it.
> > Weaver could come in from California quicker that I can make it down in
>the
> > Colt. Hey Wally, we would have to put out the pilot light in the tent,
>if
> > camping out, hold the Mexican food. JohnD Don"t Archive...
> > ---
> > Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 9/13/04
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Before and after |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
You guys think that will hold till the cows come home????????????????????Bob 149
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Before and after |
looks good to Me bob. Wags
Message 16
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| Subject: | Before and after |
That should hold Bob. You don't beat around the bush. Giver hell son.
-Danny
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Conner
Subject: Tailwind-List: Before and after
You guys think that will hold till the cows come home????????????????????Bob
149
Message 17
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|
d="scan'217,208"; a="328946854:sNHT17147192"
| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Oh, this thread is just polite conversation at a garden party. If you enjoy fights
to the death subscribe to the Mooney mailing list. My all-time favorite, the
list was bitterly divided on the question of whether the message "I agree."
is an appropriate response.
Do not archive.
Joe Maj
Building a Buttercup with the Leading Edge Flap.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Earl,
I certainly respect Witts opinion on the twisting moment. Still, a leading edge
flap on a W10 is a tempting thought. A wonder if the wing could be stiffened
without adding to much weight? How about facing all ribs with 1/16 ply and
covering wing with 1/8 45 degree birch plywood. Then instead of fiberglass over
the wing maybe use carbon fiber cloth?? Just ideas, maybe some of the other
guys could give us their thoughts.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Keith,
If you try to make a leading edge flap for the TW the problem is the twisting
moment without a rear strut .That is right from Witt himself .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I have thought that a W10 with the leading edge flaps would have an even
better speed range. Maybe a hidden hinge could be developed for them. Key would
be to keep the weight down.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Since the front is Buttercup and rear is Tailwind, then just call it Butterwind
! Maybe it will go faster all buttered up like that ! :)
Larry H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Flamini
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Joe,
Why not Tailcup, Butterwing?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
That's the horizontal stab? I checked the dimensions- they're pretty
close as is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Remember to increase the stab over the W-10 .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I'm firming up the plan for my project. I've decided to hybridize
the Buttercup and the Tailwind, hence the Tuttercup.
The wing and fuselage from firewall to the seats, will be Buttercup,
aft , W-10 including the empennage. The plane will be a tri-gear. Fuselage
width will be 42". While my research indicates the leading edge flap may be only
marginally beneficial, I'll use it anyway.
I'm looking at substituting aluminum for steel wherever feasible
- flaps, ailerons, horizontal stabilizer, flippers, rudder, control system components
- to save weight.
Joe Maj
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Steve was building such a wing when he died. It is on display at the EAA museum.
It is basically a W10 wing with moving leading edge. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Earl,
I certainly respect Witts opinion on the twisting moment. Still, a leading
edge flap on a W10 is a tempting thought. A wonder if the wing could be stiffened
without adding to much weight? How about facing all ribs with 1/16 ply and
covering wing with 1/8 45 degree birch plywood. Then instead of fiberglass
over the wing maybe use carbon fiber cloth?? Just ideas, maybe some of the other
guys could give us their thoughts.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Keith,
If you try to make a leading edge flap for the TW the problem is the twisting
moment without a rear strut .That is right from Witt himself .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I have thought that a W10 with the leading edge flaps would have an even
better speed range. Maybe a hidden hinge could be developed for them. Key would
be to keep the weight down.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Since the front is Buttercup and rear is Tailwind, then just call it Butterwind
! Maybe it will go faster all buttered up like that ! :)
Larry H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Flamini
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Joe,
Why not Tailcup, Butterwing?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
That's the horizontal stab? I checked the dimensions- they're pretty
close as is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Remember to increase the stab over the W-10 .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I'm firming up the plan for my project. I've decided to hybridize
the Buttercup and the Tailwind, hence the Tuttercup.
The wing and fuselage from firewall to the seats, will be Buttercup,
aft , W-10 including the empennage. The plane will be a tri-gear. Fuselage
width will be 42". While my research indicates the leading edge flap may be
only marginally beneficial, I'll use it anyway.
I'm looking at substituting aluminum for steel wherever feasible
- flaps, ailerons, horizontal stabilizer, flippers, rudder, control system components
- to save weight.
Joe Maj
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
Message 20
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Weav,
Thanks for the tip. I emailed the illustrations to Matt. I sent the file to all
who requested one tonight. I just got back to Memphis tonight, from Juneau WI.
I picked up my CNC cut spars, and the rest of my Dave Stamsta wing kit from
the manufacturer, Bill Scheuneman. Man the spars look great! They will save me
countless hours of work, and worrying if I did it right. The spars are laminated
spruce, and are ready to place the ribs on and glue. No drilling or anything.
It is late, but I will post some pictures of the kit ASAP.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: The Tuttercup |
Jim C,
Do you know what Steve did to address the twisting moment? How did the moving
leading edge differ from Buttercup?
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Donna Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Steve was building such a wing when he died. It is on display at the EAA museum.
It is basically a W10 wing with moving leading edge. Jim C
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Earl,
I certainly respect Witts opinion on the twisting moment. Still, a leading
edge flap on a W10 is a tempting thought. A wonder if the wing could be stiffened
without adding to much weight? How about facing all ribs with 1/16 ply
and covering wing with 1/8 45 degree birch plywood. Then instead of fiberglass
over the wing maybe use carbon fiber cloth?? Just ideas, maybe some of the other
guys could give us their thoughts.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Keith,
If you try to make a leading edge flap for the TW the problem is the
twisting moment without a rear strut .That is right from Witt himself .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Imel
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I have thought that a W10 with the leading edge flaps would have an
even better speed range. Maybe a hidden hinge could be developed for them. Key
would be to keep the weight down.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry H
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Since the front is Buttercup and rear is Tailwind, then just call it
Butterwind ! Maybe it will go faster all buttered up like that ! :)
Larry H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Flamini
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Joe,
Why not Tailcup, Butterwing?
Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
That's the horizontal stab? I checked the dimensions- they're pretty
close as is.
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Luce
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
Remember to increase the stab over the W-10 .
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: The Tuttercup
I'm firming up the plan for my project. I've decided to hybridize
the Buttercup and the Tailwind, hence the Tuttercup.
The wing and fuselage from firewall to the seats, will be Buttercup,
aft , W-10 including the empennage. The plane will be a tri-gear. Fuselage
width will be 42". While my research indicates the leading edge flap may
be only marginally beneficial, I'll use it anyway.
I'm looking at substituting aluminum for steel wherever feasible
- flaps, ailerons, horizontal stabilizer, flippers, rudder, control system
components - to save weight.
Joe Maj
---
Version: 6.0.744 / Virus Database: 496 - Release Date: 8/24/2004
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