---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/29/04: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:34 AM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Estelle Danner) 2. 06:35 AM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Rcaprd@aol.com) 3. 06:54 AM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (DaveM) 4. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: Tailwind W 10R (Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com) 6. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (flamini2) 7. 08:06 AM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Bill newkirk) 8. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind (Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com) 9. 09:26 AM - Re: Tailwind W 10R (Dan) 10. 09:42 AM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Dan) 11. 10:02 AM - Re: Tailwind W 10R (Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com) 12. 10:03 AM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Louis Owen) 13. 11:43 AM - Subject: Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Matt Prather) 14. 12:05 PM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Luc H.) 15. 01:19 PM - Re: Subject: Re: Scimitar Prop Design (cgalley) 16. 02:09 PM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Fred Weaver) 17. 02:49 PM - Re: Tailwind W 10R (Bruce E. Butts) 18. 04:21 PM - Re: Tailwind W 10R (Lovelace) 19. 06:18 PM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Jerry Hey) 20. 06:28 PM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Fred Weaver) 21. 06:30 PM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Estelle Danner) 22. 06:53 PM - Re: Scimitar Prop Design (Larry H) 23. 10:02 PM - Progress (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:01 AM PST US From: "Estelle Danner" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Estelle Danner" warpdrive in storm lake iowa made a carbon fiber scimitar prop for Eldon McDanile they put it on his glassair. i will see if i can find a picture of it .Bob D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" > > Great ideas and a lot of thought..... but.... If this stuff really > worked, everyone would be using it. What do you think the Reno Racer's do > about props? They do one helluva lot of studying and comparing notes to > find out what works. Because we have our airplanes built under the > Experimental umbrella, you can do a lot of experimenting to determine if > your ideas work or not.. It's a beautiful thing.... > My recommendation is as follows..... > First, use a prop for your engine that has already been used and used > successfully...document a variety of results... > Second, build a prop that you think will be better. > Third, make sure you are ready to try it out and mount it up. > fourth, Fly it all over the place taking good notes about speed, rpm and > manifold pressure. > I'm betting that the original prop will probably do a better job... But, > the cool thing is, you were able to prove it. > There was a guy in the VariEze/Long EZ bunch that thought a lot of the same > things... He carved several props and might even still fly in front of one > today but...... > They didn't work as good as some of the others that were readily available. > Chuck... I don't even want to come close to discouraging you.....but, this > subject has been beaten about for years... > Thank goodness you can try all the different versions you want... Those > tests will be very informative. We will all be excited to see the results. > Good Luck and Have fun, > Weav > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:21 PM > Subject: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > > > I'm going to see if I can kick up any interest in the design of a > 'Scimitar > > Prop'. I've brought up this subject in years past on this list, but had > only > > limited interest. > > As we all know, a propeller absorbs the energy of the fuel burned in > the > > engine, and dispenses it in the form of thrust. Whenever energy is > > transformed from one form to another, some energy is transformed to some > other form > > which is lost to intent of thrust. Energy cannot be created nor > destroyed...it's > > a fact of physics. Therefore, the more efficiently the 'Potential' energy > of > > the fuel that is burned, can be transformed into thrust, the less fuel > will be > > required to perform a given amount of work. A given fixed pitch prop is > most > > efficient at a specific r.p.m., and a specific forward speed. This is why > > adjustable props came into play, and high performance airplanes usually > have > > Constant Speed Props. Here is where the Scimitar Prop comes in. The > blades of > > the Scimitar Prop will twist to a lower blade angle for the high thrust > > required for takeoff and climb, then once airborne and power is pulled, > the prop > > unloads and flexes back almost to the blade angle it was carved at. Hence > you > > have an adjustable blade angle prop, with No Moving Parts !! Pretty cool, > huh? > > Wood is the chosen material for this design, because it will not fatigue, > it's > > readily available, and it's relatively easy to work with. > > > > Here are the forces imposed upon a Propeller: > > > > 1. Centrifugal Force - Most powerful force, tends to pull the blades > > outward away from the hub. > > > > 2. Thrust Bending Force - Blade tips bend forward when put under a > load. > > > > 3. Torque Bending Force - Blades bend opposite the direction of > > rotation. > > > > 4. Aerodynamic Twisting Force - Twists the blade at the aerodynamic > > center of pressure. Tends to twist the blades to High Pitch. > > > > 5. Centrifugal Twisting Force - The Mass of the blade, under a > > centrifugal force, tends to twist the blades to a Lower Pitch. > > > > 6. Vibration Force (Resonance) - Everything has a resonant frequency, > > according to the mass, and the location of the mass. > > > > A Scimitar design prop takes advantage of these forces to twist the > > blades to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb, and then when in > cruise flight > > and power is pulled back, and the prop unloads, the blade angle relaxes > back > > to a higher blade angle, and you have a cruise prop. > > Steve Wittman certainly understood the potential of a scimitar design, > as > > evidence on the wall of his hanger in Oshkosh. > > I still can't understand why all props aren't of scimitar design. > With > > enough Research and Development, then mass production could easily bring > the > > additional labor involved, down to a competitive cost. I have searched > the > > library at Oshkosh, lots of web sites, and asked lots of people about > scimitar > > props. By far, the best info I've found on it, is the couple of pages in > Eric > > Clutton's book. I did, however, discover that the concept came about in > W.W.I > > aircraft. The design showed potential, but what happened on several > occasions > > was that in a dogfight, the lead plane would go into a dive, in an effort > to > > escape the aggressor, and the engine / prop would overspeed, then the > blades > > would begin to flutter, and disintegrate. You can imagine the vibration > of a > > broken prop blade, and if power wasn't pulled and shut down the engine, it > would > > then shake the engine right off the plane, and now, with a tail heavy CG > > condition, the plane would spin to the ground. Even if the pilot was able > to shut > > down the engine in time, he was then a glider pilot...easy prey. I > believe > > when you over-run the prop of a scimitar design, the aerodynamics are what > > cause the flutter. I have heard stories about how props de-laminate when > using > > thin laminates of wood, however these props had the width of the planks in > the > > conventional direction. The cause of these de-laminations could have been > the > > technique of construction. The big question, is if any successful props > were > > built using the parameters that Eric Clutton set forth. I do not know the > > answer to that question. > > I still plan of building one, but haven't began construction, yet. > The > > method of construction I would use, is laminates of 1/4" or less, bend > each > > laminate in a jig, to match the 'S' shape of the prop, and use T88 > exclusively, > > but to avoid squeezing too much of the adhesive out, by using either scrim > > cloth between the laminates, or glass beads in the mixture of epoxy. The > type of > > wood would I'll use, is still undecided yet, but the type of types of > > acceptable prop wood is called out in the AC 43.13-1A. > > Now, the challenge of designing a reliable Scimitar Prop, using the > mass > > of the blade to twist the blade to a lower blade angle for takeoff and > climb, > > then back almost to the blade angles that they were cut at, when the prop > > unloads. The laminations would be perpendicular to the direction of > conventional > > props, so as to achieve the dramatic arc of the blades, as set forth by > Eric > > Cluttons design. > > I'm looking for any input, pros or cons, and especially if anyone is > > aware of an aircraft that has used this design prop successfully. > > > > > > Chuck Gantzer > > Pietenpol Aircamper > > NX770CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:51 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com In a message dated 9/28/04 11:07:00 PM Central Daylight Time, Mytyweav@earthlink.net writes: << Great ideas and a lot of thought..... but.... If this stuff really worked, everyone would be using it. What do you think the Reno Racer's do about props? They do one helluva lot of studying and comparing notes to find out what works. Because we have our airplanes built under the Experimental umbrella, you can do a lot of experimenting to determine if your ideas work or not.. It's a beautiful thing.... My recommendation is as follows..... First, use a prop for your engine that has already been used and used successfully...document a variety of results... Second, build a prop that you think will be better. Third, make sure you are ready to try it out and mount it up. fourth, Fly it all over the place taking good notes about speed, rpm and manifold pressure. I'm betting that the original prop will probably do a better job... But, the cool thing is, you were able to prove it. There was a guy in the VariEze/Long EZ bunch that thought a lot of the same things... He carved several props and might even still fly in front of one today but...... They didn't work as good as some of the others that were readily available. Chuck... I don't even want to come close to discouraging you.....but, this subject has been beaten about for years... Thank goodness you can try all the different versions you want... Those tests will be very informative. We will all be excited to see the results. Good Luck and Have fun, Weav >> Thanks for the reply, with some good advise. It's very true that we have a lot of room for experimentation, and that's a big part of what I really like about our little nitch in aviation. What I would like to find is someone who has actually experimented with this design...like Steve Wittman !! Oh, to be able to go through some of his notes and thoughts on the Scimitar !! I would like to avoid problems that others have found. The Scimitar Prop seems to be more taylored to a slow turning engine, and gentle maneuvers. I think Gyroscopic Precession, and the high r.p.m.'s of anything over 2400 or 2500 rpm would be hard on this type prop. There are several broken props in Wittman's hanger, that I wonder what happened with. I'm flying behind a Continental A65, and a 72 X 42 prop that I built, and it seems to work very well by the numbers I've accumulated during the past 180 hours, or so. I don't have a MAP gauge. That and fuel flow would certainly be helpful to show the differences between the props. With the slower speed of my engine, and gentle maneuvers of a Pietenpol, it just seems to me to be a taylor fit. I'll eventually build one, but it takes me a long time to build and carve out a regular prop, let alone a Scimitar. Thru the end of July and first of August, I completed a 3100 mile cross country trip in the ol' Piet !! No mechanical or weather problems to speak of, and it was the biggest adventure I've ever been on. Chuck G. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:09 AM PST US From: "DaveM" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "DaveM" From the Spruce catalog description, that is exactly what the Prince "P-Tip" props advertise--slight changes in pitch between climb and cruise. They can be purchased in either wood or composite. I almost bought one for my W-8, but Fred convinced me that Catto made a great prop (and he was right--it is a 68X72 and is just right for that plane IMHO). I now have tried the Catto on the W-10, but it is a little underpitched for it (great climb however). The wood 68-74 that was on it I think was best all around for the W-10, but is being refinished at the present. I would really like to hear about anyone who has used a Prince P-tip on a tailwind, RV or thorp and how they think it compares to other props. Dave ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:28 AM PST US From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com Dennis, can you make it on 10-9? Malcolm > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Flamini [SMTP:flamini2@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:30 AM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dennis Flamini" > > > Malcolm, > i plugged the coord in my GPS, is the strip called Kepes? > Looks to be between I-70 and I-40? > How are the approaches? > Have other planes been landing there? > What direction is the runway? > Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago > ----- Original Message ----- > do not archive > > > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:06 AM > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > We will be looking for ya! > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Fred Weaver [SMTP:Mytyweav@earthlink.net] > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:45 AM > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > The hamburgers and hot dogs sound good to me! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Stephen Doughty" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 5:44 AM > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > The 9th would be good for us, and if the wx stinks, the 16th would > be > a > > > good > > > > back up. > > > > > > > > Anybody else have input? Eric? JohnD? Paul? Brian? Jerry? Dennis? > > > > Anybody........ Weav??? :) > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:25:09 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > >Steve, 9th or the 16th which ever is best for everybody. The GPS > cord. > > > for > > > > >my place N 39 55.067, W 083 34.237. For those that can't land on my > > > strip > > > > >KUFY is 6 miles and I will provide shuttle service. I will fire up > the > > > gas > > > > >grill and we can have hamburgers and hot dogs for lunch. Just let > me > > > know > > > > >what day works best. > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:09 AM > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, WX permitting, I would say the 9th or 10th, or maybe the > 16th > > > or > > > > > > 17th. > > > > > > We were planning a 3 day weekend up north on Oct. 1st. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would really like to see the projects you have down there, and > I > > > am > > > > >sure > > > > > > > > > > > > there are several others that would too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for volunteering this too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:41:51 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve KUYF is 6 miles if you don't want to chance it. When is a > > > good > > > > >time > > > > > > >for everyone? Some Saturday in Oct.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:59 AM > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, I think that would be great, just give me notice as > to > > > when > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > will make plans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will have to practice up on my short field TO & landings. > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Lovelace" > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:27:01 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am sure we could have one at KUYF, which is 6 miles from > my > > > strip > > > > > > or > > > > > > >if > > > > > > > > >everyone wants to try my 1850 ft strip. We can have it at > my > > > place > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > >weekend. I have 3 Tailwinds under construction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > >From: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:36 AM > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, we really wanted to be there, but we left on > the > > > 4th > > > to > > > > > > >spend > > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > > > days at the cottage and did not know the gathering was > for > > > the > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > weekend. We would have flown over if we would have > known. > > > > >Maybe > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > >should > > > > > > > > > > have one down in Ohio somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:38:58 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > > > > >Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. Sorry > we > > > missed > > > > > > >you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen > Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you really > think? > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee for > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn > something > > > from > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > >been there...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >First of all.... There is no substitute for > > > Horsepower > > > > >AND > > > > > > > > > > >Altitude.... > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Aviator 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an > engine? > > > You > > > > > > >already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >did > > > > > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > > > > >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving > > > money > > > by > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > >going > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 - > > > > >$10,000..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > >you will fly it....."Recreationally"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you > might > > > take > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > >wife > > > > > > > > >or > > > > > > > > > > > > >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for > a > > > ride. > > > > > > >Then > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > decide > > > > > > > > > > > > >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you > along > > > with > > > > > > >some > > > > > > > > > > > > Pepsi's.. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Have to have some weight for this example... Oh > boy, > > > > >you're > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > excited > > > > > > > > > > > > >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have > > > discovered > > > > >a > > > > > > >neat > > > > > > > > > > >little > > > > > > > > > > > > >place where you can land and there is a small river > > > nearby > > > > > > >where > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > > > > > >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, > all > > > this > > > > > > > > > > >"Recreational" > > > > > > > > > > > > >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and > head > > > for > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >hills... > > > > > > > > > > > > >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time > to > > > come > > > > > > home. > > > > > > > > >It's > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys > will > > > be > > > > >up > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... > First > > > you > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > > >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from > where > > > you > > > > > > >are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >But > > > > > > > > > > > > hey, > > > > > > > > > > > > >you know your plane, it will be no problem....... > You > > > take > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the > throttle > > > in > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >stops.... > > > > > > > > > > > > >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it > just > > > a > > > > >tad > > > > > > > > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > >more > > > > > > > > > > > > >power...and you go and go and go and you aren't > > > really > > > > > > >setting > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > > > > >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to > > > pucker > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the > damn > > > trees > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > >getting > > > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > > > >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat > of > > > the > > > > > > day. > > > > > > > > >Whew!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > >just made it over the tree's and around the big > rock > on > > > the > > > > > > >left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It > > > > > > > > > > >is > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > >this moment that you will remember all these > "devilish" > > > > > > emails > > > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > > > > > >putting > > > > > > > > > > > > >the right engine on in the first place. Of course, > > > then > > > > >you > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > >go > > > > > > > > > > > > >home > > > > > > > > > > > > >and explain to your wife how you need to spend a > bunch > > > more > > > > > > >money > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >now > > > > > > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > > > > > >another engine. But first you have to buy her a > bunch > > > of > > > > >new > > > > > > > > >furniture > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > >the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. > Of > > > > > > course, > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > >tell > > > > > > > > > > > > her > > > > > > > > > > > > >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine > you > > > had > > > > >in > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > >first > > > > > > > > > > > > >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even > with > > > ALL > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > cool > > > > > > > > > > > > >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh > wow, > > > now > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > 0-200 > > > > > > > > > > > > >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that > > > really > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > >of > > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere > Kinda > > > like > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > Connors.... > > > > > > > > > > > > >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Just how much time and money do you have that you > want > > > to > > > > > > >waste? > > > > > > > > >Just > > > > > > > > > > > > >imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased > a > > > nice > > > > > > >0-320 > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > >first place, just like Eric did... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Weav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... > > > > >hahahhaha.. > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > >bad, > > > > > > > > > > > > >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model > either. > > > > >But > > > > > > > > > > > > >at > > > > > > > > >times, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > >like that cute little angel.......trying to save > your > > > > >bacon. > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the > > > devil > > > on > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > >shoulder > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver > would > > > be? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On > > > > >Behalf > > > > > > > > > > > > >Of > > > > > > > > >Fred > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred > Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Makes no difference...... Power is > required.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for > > > > >recreation. > > > > > > > > >Cross > > > > > > > > > > > > >country > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be secondary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On > > > > > > Behalf > > > > > > > > Of > > > > > > > > >Luc > > > > > > > > > > >H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H." > > > > > > > > ><4luc@sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or > other > > > > >airplane > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > digit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wing loading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. > > > Something > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > >hp. > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want to go broke doing it. Help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike NW Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election > news, > > > plus > > > > > > voter > > > > > > > > >tools > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for > > > advice > > > > >on > > > > > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > get there! > > > > >http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > > > > > > > > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > it's > > > > >FREE! > > > > > > > > > > > > > hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter > tools > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:59 AM PST US From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com Dan, can you make it on the 10-9? Malcolm > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan [SMTP:dannyjoe@insightbb.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:17 PM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > Fast Fred, > > Yep, Photoshop. While we were playing I though I'd do one. Tailwinds > don't need any help to look good though, especially yours. That classic > look is the hook that kept me coming back. I picked up a tidbit of > information here and there, and now I live, eat and breathe Tailwinds. > Maybe when I get to flying mine this utter obsession will let up some. I > will be getting around to painting mine one of these days; right now I am > working on tail wheel proficiency. I got 3.5 hours in this week in a Cub > and a Champ, hope to get that much more this week. There is no substitute > for good dual instruction, so I am staying after it until I go broke, > which will be soon. I may have to hitch-hike to Malcolms... :-) > > -Dan > > > > - do not archive - > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 2:31 PM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > > > Dan.... Nice job on the landing gear and struts... Looks pretty damn > good eh? Photo shop? > > Weav > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dan > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:57 AM > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > > > Don't need those pesky struts do we? > > -Danny > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Conner > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:41 AM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > > > George I like this one better. I bet Weav will > too...................Bob 149 > > do not archive > > > > >From: George Turner > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:07:55 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > >Check this out. > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > >vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > > ><< W10-R.jpg >> > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:06 AM PST US From: "flamini2" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" Malcolm, We just got back from Dallas and will be watching the weather for next weekend. Should be able to make it 10-09-04, who else is planning the trip? Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > Dennis, can you make it on 10-9? > > Malcolm > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dennis Flamini [SMTP:flamini2@comcast.net] > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:30 AM > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dennis Flamini" > > > > > > Malcolm, > > i plugged the coord in my GPS, is the strip called Kepes? > > Looks to be between I-70 and I-40? > > How are the approaches? > > Have other planes been landing there? > > What direction is the runway? > > Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago > > ----- Original Message ----- > > do not archive > > > > > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:06 AM > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > We will be looking for ya! > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Fred Weaver [SMTP:Mytyweav@earthlink.net] > > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:45 AM > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > The hamburgers and hot dogs sound good to me! > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 5:44 AM > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 9th would be good for us, and if the wx stinks, the 16th would > > be > > a > > > > good > > > > > back up. > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else have input? Eric? JohnD? Paul? Brian? Jerry? Dennis? > > > > > Anybody........ Weav??? :) > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:25:09 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve, 9th or the 16th which ever is best for everybody. The GPS > > cord. > > > > for > > > > > >my place N 39 55.067, W 083 34.237. For those that can't land on my > > > > strip > > > > > >KUFY is 6 miles and I will provide shuttle service. I will fire up > > the > > > > gas > > > > > >grill and we can have hamburgers and hot dogs for lunch. Just let > > me > > > > know > > > > > >what day works best. > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:09 AM > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, WX permitting, I would say the 9th or 10th, or maybe the > > 16th > > > > or > > > > > > > 17th. > > > > > > > We were planning a 3 day weekend up north on Oct. 1st. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would really like to see the projects you have down there, and > > I > > > > am > > > > > >sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there are several others that would too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for volunteering this too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:41:51 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve KUYF is 6 miles if you don't want to chance it. When is a > > > > good > > > > > >time > > > > > > > >for everyone? Some Saturday in Oct.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:59 AM > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, I think that would be great, just give me notice as > > to > > > > when > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > will make plans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will have to practice up on my short field TO & landings. > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Lovelace" > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:27:01 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am sure we could have one at KUYF, which is 6 miles from > > my > > > > strip > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > >if > > > > > > > > > >everyone wants to try my 1850 ft strip. We can have it at > > my > > > > place > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > >weekend. I have 3 Tailwinds under construction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > >From: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:36 AM > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, we really wanted to be there, but we left on > > the > > > > 4th > > > > to > > > > > > > >spend > > > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > > > > days at the cottage and did not know the gathering was > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > weekend. We would have flown over if we would have > > known. > > > > > >Maybe > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > >should > > > > > > > > > > > have one down in Ohio somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:38:58 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > > > > > >Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. Sorry > > we > > > > missed > > > > > > > >you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen > > Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you really > > think? > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee for > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn > > something > > > > from > > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > >been there...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >First of all.... There is no substitute for > > > > Horsepower > > > > > >AND > > > > > > > > > > > >Altitude.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Aviator 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an > > engine? > > > > You > > > > > > > >already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >did > > > > > > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > > > > > >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about saving > > > > money > > > > by > > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > > >going > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 - > > > > > >$10,000..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > >you will fly it....."Recreationally"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you > > might > > > > take > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > >wife > > > > > > > > > >or > > > > > > > > > > > > > >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom for > > a > > > > ride. > > > > > > > >Then > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with you > > along > > > > with > > > > > > > >some > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pepsi's.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Have to have some weight for this example... Oh > > boy, > > > > > >you're > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > > excited > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have > > > > discovered > > > > > >a > > > > > > > >neat > > > > > > > > > > > >little > > > > > > > > > > > > > >place where you can land and there is a small river > > > > nearby > > > > > > > >where > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting fun, > > all > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > >"Recreational" > > > > > > > > > > > > > >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind and > > head > > > > for > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > >hills... > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's time > > to > > > > come > > > > > > > home. > > > > > > > > > >It's > > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you guys > > will > > > > be > > > > > >up > > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... > > First > > > > you > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > > > >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE from > > where > > > > you > > > > > > > >are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >But > > > > > > > > > > > > > hey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >you know your plane, it will be no problem....... > > You > > > > take > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the > > throttle > > > > in > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > >stops.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean it > > just > > > > a > > > > > >tad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > > >more > > > > > > > > > > > > > >power...and you go and go and go and you aren't > > > > really > > > > > > > >setting > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > > > > > >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass starts to > > > > pucker > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the > > damn > > > > trees > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > >getting > > > > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > > > > >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the heat > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > day. > > > > > > > > > >Whew!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > >just made it over the tree's and around the big > > rock > > on > > > > the > > > > > > > >left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It > > > > > > > > > > > >is > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > >this moment that you will remember all these > > "devilish" > > > > > > > emails > > > > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > > > > > > >putting > > > > > > > > > > > > > >the right engine on in the first place. Of course, > > > > then > > > > > >you > > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > >go > > > > > > > > > > > > > >home > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and explain to your wife how you need to spend a > > bunch > > > > more > > > > > > > >money > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >now > > > > > > > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > > > > > > >another engine. But first you have to buy her a > > bunch > > > > of > > > > > >new > > > > > > > > > >furniture > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > >the house so she won't be so pissed off about it.. > > Of > > > > > > > course, > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > >tell > > > > > > > > > > > > > her > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the engine > > you > > > > had > > > > > >in > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > >first > > > > > > > > > > > > > >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? even > > with > > > > ALL > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > cool > > > > > > > > > > > > > >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow oh > > wow, > > > > now > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0-200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone that > > > > really > > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > >of > > > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere > > Kinda > > > > like > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connors.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Just how much time and money do you have that you > > want > > > > to > > > > > > > >waste? > > > > > > > > > >Just > > > > > > > > > > > > > >imagine for a moment, that you could have purchased > > a > > > > nice > > > > > > > >0-320 > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > >first place, just like Eric did... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Weav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... > > > > > >hahahhaha.. > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > >bad, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model > > either. > > > > > >But > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >at > > > > > > > > > >times, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like that cute little angel.......trying to save > > your > > > > > >bacon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has the > > > > devil > > > > on > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > >shoulder > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver > > would > > > > be? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On > > > > > >Behalf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Of > > > > > > > > > >Fred > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred > > Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Makes no difference...... Power is > > required.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, > > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used for > > > > > >recreation. > > > > > > > > > >Cross > > > > > > > > > > > > > >country > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be secondary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On > > > > > > > Behalf > > > > > > > > > Of > > > > > > > > > >Luc > > > > > > > > > > > >H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc H." > > > > > > > > > ><4luc@sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or > > other > > > > > >airplane > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > digit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wing loading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Ruhnke, > > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. > > > > Something > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > >hp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want to go broke doing it. Help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike NW Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election > > news, > > > > plus > > > > > > > voter > > > > > > > > > >tools > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for > > > > advice > > > > > >on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > get there! > > > > > >http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > > > > > > > > > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ today - > > it's > > > > > >FREE! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter > > tools > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:23 AM PST US From: "Bill newkirk" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 08:02:30 -0700 Larry; I have a Warnke "almost constant speed" prop on my Murphy Rebel. Margie Warnke says that it ranges from 46" to 56". I have no way of knowing if this is correct, but I am happy with the performance. It is a beautifully built prop BUT her service was the WORST. I think she may have run herself out of business. Her dad, Bernie Warnke, was the original guy. Bill Newkirk Prather, CA P.S. Fred; We rode the old BMW faster and further than we planned and as a result we went thru Jackson at dusk on Sat. We waved on the way by. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry H To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Larry H" > There used to be a company that made props called Warneke almost constant speed props. They made some really good props that used some of the theory that you are talking about. I do not know if they are still in existence now or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was pronounced warn e key . Good Luck Larry H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "red" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" > > > Chuck, > I don't know anything that will help you but wish you success. Keep us > informed. > Red > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:21 PM > Subject: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > > > I'm going to see if I can kick up any interest in the design of a > 'Scimitar > > Prop'. I've brought up this subject in years past on this list, but had > only > > limited interest. > > As we all know, a propeller absorbs the energy of the fuel burned in > the > > engine, and dispenses it in the form of thrust. Whenever energy is > > transformed from one form to another, some energy is transformed to some > other form > > which is lost to intent of thrust. Energy cannot be created nor > destroyed...it's > > a fact of physics. Therefore, the more efficiently the 'Potential' energy > of > > the fuel that is burned, can be transformed into thrust, the less fuel > will be > > required to perform a given amount of work. A given fixed pitch prop is > most > > efficient at a specific r.p.m., and a specific forward speed. This is why > > adjustable props came into play, and high performance airplanes usually > have > > Constant Speed Props. Here is where the Scimitar Prop comes in. The > blades of > > the Scimitar Prop will twist to a lower blade angle for the high thrust > > required for takeoff and climb, then once airborne and power is pulled, > the prop > > unloads and flexes back almost to the blade angle it was carved at. Hence > you > > have an adjustable blade angle prop, with No Moving Parts !! Pretty cool, > huh? > > Wood is the chosen material for this design, because it will not fatigue, > it's > > readily available, and it's relatively easy to work with. > > > > Here are the forces imposed upon a Propeller: > > > > 1. Centrifugal Force - Most powerful force, tends to pull the blades > > outward away from the hub. > > > > 2. Thrust Bending Force - Blade tips bend forward when put under a > load. > > > > 3. Torque Bending Force - Blades bend opposite the direction of > > rotation. > > > > 4. Aerodynamic Twisting Force - Twists the blade at the aerodynamic > > center of pressure. Tends to twist the blades to High Pitch. > > > > 5. Centrifugal Twisting Force - The Mass of the blade, under a > > centrifugal force, tends to twist the blades to a Lower Pitch. > > > > 6. Vibration Force (Resonance) - Everything has a resonant frequency, > > according to the mass, and the location of the mass. > > > > A Scimitar design prop takes advantage of these forces to twist the > > blades to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb, and then when in > cruise flight > > and power is pulled back, and the prop unloads, the blade angle relaxes > back > > to a higher blade angle, and you have a cruise prop. > > Steve Wittman certainly understood the potential of a scimitar design, > as > > evidence on the wall of his hanger in Oshkosh. > > I still can't understand why all props aren't of scimitar design. > With > > enough Research and Development, then mass production could easily bring > the > > additional labor involved, down to a competitive cost. I have searched > the > > library at Oshkosh, lots of web sites, and asked lots of people about > scimitar > > props. By far, the best info I've found on it, is the couple of pages in > Eric > > Clutton's book. I did, however, discover that the concept came about in > W.W.I > > aircraft. The design showed potential, but what happened on several > occasions > > was that in a dogfight, the lead plane would go into a dive, in an effort > to > > escape the aggressor, and the engine / prop would overspeed, then the > blades > > would begin to flutter, and disintegrate. You can imagine the vibration > of a > > broken prop blade, and if power wasn't pulled and shut down the engine, it > would > > then shake the engine right off the plane, and now, with a tail heavy CG > > condition, the plane would spin to the ground. Even if the pilot was able > to shut > > down the engine in time, he was then a glider pilot...easy prey. I > believe > > when you over-run the prop of a scimitar design, the aerodynamics are what > > cause the flutter. I have heard stories about how props de-laminate when > using > > thin laminates of wood, however these props had the width of the planks in > the > > conventional direction. The cause of these de-laminations could have been > the > > technique of construction. The big question, is if any successful props > were > > built using the parameters that Eric Clutton set forth. I do not know the > > answer to that question. > > I still plan of building one, but haven't began construction, yet. > The > > method of construction I would use, is laminates of 1/4" or less, bend > each > > laminate in a jig, to match the 'S' shape of the prop, and use T88 > exclusively, > > but to avoid squeezing too much of the adhesive out, by using either scrim > > cloth between the laminates, or glass beads in the mixture of epoxy. The > type of > > wood would I'll use, is still undecided yet, but the type of types of > > acceptable prop wood is called out in the AC 43.13-1A. > > Now, the challenge of designing a reliable Scimitar Prop, using the > mass > > of the blade to twist the blade to a lower blade angle for takeoff and > climb, > > then back almost to the blade angles that they were cut at, when the prop > > unloads. The laminations would be perpendicular to the direction of > conventional > > props, so as to achieve the dramatic arc of the blades, as set forth by > Eric > > Cluttons design. > > I'm looking for any input, pros or cons, and especially if anyone is > > aware of an aircraft that has used this design prop successfully. > > > > > > Chuck Gantzer > > Pietenpol Aircamper > > NX770CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat tailwind-list@matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/search http://www.matronics.com/browse/tailwind-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list http://www.matronics.com/chat http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare http://www.matronics.com/tailwind-list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists report> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:38 AM PST US From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com I am trying to find out now. I will let you know. It looks like 5 or 6. > -----Original Message----- > From: flamini2 [SMTP:flamini2@comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:47 AM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "flamini2" > > Malcolm, > We just got back from Dallas and will be watching the weather for next > weekend. > Should be able to make it 10-09-04, who else is planning the trip? > Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:23 AM > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > Dennis, can you make it on 10-9? > > > > Malcolm > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dennis Flamini [SMTP:flamini2@comcast.net] > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:30 AM > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dennis Flamini" > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, > > > i plugged the coord in my GPS, is the strip called Kepes? > > > Looks to be between I-70 and I-40? > > > How are the approaches? > > > Have other planes been landing there? > > > What direction is the runway? > > > Dennis Flamini N564DF race #53 Chicago > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:06 AM > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > We will be looking for ya! > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Fred Weaver [SMTP:Mytyweav@earthlink.net] > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:45 AM > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The hamburgers and hot dogs sound good to me! > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 5:44 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 9th would be good for us, and if the wx stinks, the 16th > would > > > be > > > a > > > > > good > > > > > > back up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else have input? Eric? JohnD? Paul? Brian? Jerry? > Dennis? > > > > > > Anybody........ Weav??? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 07:25:09 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve, 9th or the 16th which ever is best for everybody. The > GPS > > > cord. > > > > > for > > > > > > >my place N 39 55.067, W 083 34.237. For those that can't land > on > my > > > > > strip > > > > > > >KUFY is 6 miles and I will provide shuttle service. I will fire > up > > > the > > > > > gas > > > > > > >grill and we can have hamburgers and hot dogs for lunch. Just > let > > > me > > > > > know > > > > > > >what day works best. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:09 AM > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, WX permitting, I would say the 9th or 10th, or maybe > the > > > 16th > > > > > or > > > > > > > > 17th. > > > > > > > > We were planning a 3 day weekend up north on Oct. 1st. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would really like to see the projects you have down there, > and > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > >sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there are several others that would too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for volunteering this too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a Tailwind > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:41:51 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > > > Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve KUYF is 6 miles if you don't want to chance it. When > is > a > > > > > good > > > > > > >time > > > > > > > > >for everyone? Some Saturday in Oct.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 8:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, I think that would be great, just give me > notice > as > > > to > > > > > when > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > will make plans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will have to practice up on my short field TO & > landings. > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Lovelace" > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:27:01 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am sure we could have one at KUYF, which is 6 miles > from > > > my > > > > > strip > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > >if > > > > > > > > > > >everyone wants to try my 1850 ft strip. We can have it > at > > > my > > > > > place > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > > >weekend. I have 3 Tailwinds under construction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Stephen Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 8:36 AM > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen > Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Malcolm, we really wanted to be there, but we left > on > > > the > > > > > 4th > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >spend > > > > > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > > > > > > > days at the cottage and did not know the gathering > was > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend. We would have flown over if we would have > > > known. > > > > > > >Maybe > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > >should > > > > > > > > > > > > have one down in Ohio somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 06:38:58 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: > > > > > > > > >Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve we did not see you Saturday at Plainwell. > Sorry > > > we > > > > > missed > > > > > > > > >you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Malcolm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Stephen Doughty > [SMTP:usaviator1@hotmail.com] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:07 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for > a > > > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen > > > Doughty" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow Weav! Why don't you tell us what you > really > > > think? > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve -in Michigan, plowing skies in a Cherokee > for > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Fred Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Giant Engine for a > > > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:52:05 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred > Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hey MIKE!!! Try for just a moment to learn > > > something > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > others > > > > > > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >been there...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >First of all.... There is no substitute for > > > > > Horsepower > > > > > > >AND > > > > > > > > > > > > >Altitude.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From Aviator 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Next.. How many times do you want to buy an > > > engine? > > > > > You > > > > > > > > >already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >did > > > > > > > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >once (Buick) and now you are thinking about > saving > > > > > money > > > > > by > > > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > > > >going > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >100 HP?? Let's see, that will be about $5,000 > - > > > > > > >$10,000..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >you will fly it....."Recreationally"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Then after you fly off your 40 hours or so, you > > > might > > > > > take > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > >wife > > > > > > > > > > >or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >daughter or son OR like Magaw did, Took his mom > for > > > a > > > > > ride. > > > > > > > > >Then > > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decide > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to go somewhere and take a picnic lunch with > you > > > along > > > > > with > > > > > > > > >some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pepsi's.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Have to have some weight for this example... > Oh > > > boy, > > > > > > >you're > > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > excited > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to be flying somewhere for a picnic.. You have > > > > > discovered > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > >neat > > > > > > > > > > > > >little > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >place where you can land and there is a small > river > > > > > nearby > > > > > > > > >where > > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >can go swimming too.. Man, this is getting > fun, > > > all > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Recreational" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >flying eh? So, you hop in your 100 HP Tailwind > and > > > head > > > > > for > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > >hills... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You land and enjoy your time..... NOW, it's > time > > > to > > > > > come > > > > > > > > home. > > > > > > > > > > >It's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >2:30 pm and damn it's hot.... but soon, you > guys > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > >up > > > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >nice cool air flying home, right? Wrong,.... > > > First > > > > > you > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >successfully takeoff in the DENSITY ALTITUDE > from > > > where > > > > > you > > > > > > > > >are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >But > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hey, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >you know your plane, it will be no > problem....... > > > You > > > > > take > > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to go flying. So you line er up and jam the > > > throttle > > > > > in > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > >stops.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Away you go......sorta....as you roll, you lean > it > > > just > > > > > a > > > > > > >tad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > > > >more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >power...and you go and go and go and you > aren't > > > > > really > > > > > > > > >setting > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >on fire with your accelleration. Your ass > starts > to > > > > > pucker > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >barely lift off before having to abort. Now the > > > damn > > > > > trees > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > >getting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >close too and your rate of climb stinks in the > heat > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > day. > > > > > > > > > > >Whew!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >just made it over the tree's and around the big > > > rock > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >left. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It > > > > > > > > > > > > >is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >this moment that you will remember all these > > > "devilish" > > > > > > > > emails > > > > > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >putting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >the right engine on in the first place. Of > course, > > > > > then > > > > > > >you > > > > > > > > >have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > >go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >home > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and explain to your wife how you need to spend > a > > > bunch > > > > > more > > > > > > > > >money > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >now > > > > > > > > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >another engine. But first you have to buy her a > > > bunch > > > > > of > > > > > > >new > > > > > > > > > > >furniture > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >the house so she won't be so pissed off about > it.. > > > Of > > > > > > > > course, > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > >tell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > her > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it's not that big a deal, you can sell the > engine > > > you > > > > > had > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > >first > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >place. Gee, how much is that Buick worth??? > even > > > with > > > > > ALL > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > cool > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >accesories you bought for it??? And then, wow > oh > > > wow, > > > > > now > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0-200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >or an 0-235 for sale too. Gotta find someone > that > > > > > really > > > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > >of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >so you can crate it up and ship it somewhere > > > Kinda > > > > > like > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connors.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >( I couldn't resist) sorry Bob. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Just how much time and money do you have that > you > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >waste? > > > > > > > > > > >Just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >imagine for a moment, that you could have > purchased > > > a > > > > > nice > > > > > > > > >0-320 > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >first place, just like Eric did... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Weav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >PS. Hahahahhahaha..... I know, I know..... > > > > > > >hahahhaha.. > > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > >bad, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >bad boy...and a probably not a good role model > > > either. > > > > > > >But > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >at > > > > > > > > > > >times, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >like that cute little angel.......trying to > save > > > your > > > > > > >bacon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: > "Ruhnke, > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever seen the commercials where the guy has > the > > > > > devil > > > > > on > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > >shoulder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >an angel on the other. Guess which one Weaver > > > would > > > > > be? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On > > > > > > >Behalf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Of > > > > > > > > > > >Fred > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred > > > Weaver" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Makes no difference...... Power is > > > required.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:23 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Engine for > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: > "Ruhnke, > > > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me this airplane will mostly be used > for > > > > > > >recreation. > > > > > > > > > > >Cross > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >country > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be secondary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com]On > > > > > > > > Behalf > > > > > > > > > > Of > > > > > > > > > > >Luc > > > > > > > > > > > > >H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Engine for > > > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Luc > H." > > > > > > > > > > ><4luc@sbcglobal.net> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 100 hp is great if your building a Cub or > > > other > > > > > > >airplane > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > single > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > digit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wing loading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ruhnke, Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Tailwind-List: Engine for > Tailwind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: > "Ruhnke, > > > > > Mike" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I looking to put a Lycoming on my plane. > > > > > Something > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > >hp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want to go broke doing it. Help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike NW Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election > > > news, > > > > > plus > > > > > > > > voter > > > > > > > > > > >tools > > > > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events > for > > > > > advice > > > > > > >on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > > get there! > > > > > > >http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > > > > > > > > > > > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > today - > > > it's > > > > > > >FREE! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter > > > tools > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:25 AM PST US From: "Dan" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Malcolm, Looks like I will be driving up. -Dan don not archive On 9/29/2004 9:24:19 AM, tailwind-list@matronics.com wrote: > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > Dan, can you make it on the 10-9? > > Malcolm > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan [SMTP:dannyjoe@insightbb.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:17 PM > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > > > Fast Fred, > > > > Yep, Photoshop. While we were playing I though > I'd do one. Tailwinds > > don't need any help to look good though, > especially yours. That classic > > look is the hook that kept me coming back. I picked up a tidbit of > > information here and there, and now I live, eat and breathe Tailwinds. > > Maybe when I get to flying mine this utter obsession will let up some. > I > > will be getting around to painting mine one of these days; right now I > am > > working on tail wheel proficiency. I got 3.5 hours in this week in a > Cub > > and a Champ, hope to get that much more this week. There is no > substitute > > for good dual instruction, so I am staying after it until I go broke, > > which will be soon. I may have to hitch-hike to Malcolms... :-) > > > > -Dan > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:37 AM PST US From: "Dan" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Here is a link to Warnke Propellers http://www.booksappraised.com/index.cfm?siteid=75 &p=144 -Danny > or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was > pronounced warn e key . > Good Luck > Larry H. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:32 AM PST US From: Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com Great, looking forward to seeing you. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan [SMTP:dannyjoe@insightbb.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:26 PM > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > Malcolm, > > Looks like I will be driving up. > > -Dan > > don not archive > > On 9/29/2004 9:24:19 AM, tailwind-list@matronics.com wrote: > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > > > > Dan, can you make it on the 10-9? > > > > Malcolm > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dan [SMTP:dannyjoe@insightbb.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:17 PM > > > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R > > > > > > Fast Fred, > > > > > > Yep, Photoshop. While we were playing I though > > I'd do one. Tailwinds > > > don't need any help to look good though, > > especially yours. That classic > > > look is the hook that kept me coming back. I picked up a tidbit of > > > information here and there, and now I live, eat and breathe Tailwinds. > > > > Maybe when I get to flying mine this utter obsession will let up some. > > > I > > > will be getting around to painting mine one of these days; right now I > > > am > > > working on tail wheel proficiency. I got 3.5 hours in this week in a > > Cub > > > and a Champ, hope to get that much more this week. There is no > > substitute > > > for good dual instruction, so I am staying after it until I go broke, > > > which will be soon. I may have to hitch-hike to Malcolms... :-) > > > > > > -Dan > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:49 AM PST US From: "Louis Owen" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design For those interested in making propellers, look deep into the site shown below. It links to Fred Weick and others. Lou http://www.wood-carver.com/articles.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Here is a link to Warnke Propellers http://www.booksappraised.com/index.cfm?siteid75&p144 -Danny > or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was > pronounced warn e key . > Good Luck > Larry H. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:30 AM PST US Subject: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design From: "Matt Prather" --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" Long time lurker here.... I have a Rutan Varieze on which I have tried a few different props. The Warnke by far was the best performer, seeming to work as advertised. It allowed the best static RPM for good takeoff performance, and yet seemed to keep the engine loaded in cruise (best speed-RPM relationship). This is anecdotal data, and probably flawed, partly because I the props were all of slightly different diameter and pitch. Its possible that if I had a Great American or B&T of the same pitch and diameter, they would have worked equally well. There are a couple of reported downsides to the Warnke. The first is that the original builder (Bernie Warnke) died a few years ago. His wife (Marge?) attempted to continue the business, but there have been many reports of problems with customer service since then. I don't think she is still trying to sell or service props now. Another concern is that because these props are flexible, they tend to be less rugged that other types. If you bang it into something, suck a rock through it, or fly through heavy rain, it may be more easily damaged. As well, any time something is designed to be flexible, you run the risk of having it vibrate at a low enough frequency that it might self destruct. Think flutter. Finally, and this is probably not a concern on the Tailwind because of its tractor installation, because the prop is flexible, on a pusher, each time a blade flies through the turbulent wake behind the wing, it twists back and forth a bit. Flexing any material causes heating, and in this case, the glue holding the laminates together is the weakest link. Delamination is possible if this heating raises the temperature of the glue beyond a certain temperature. This brings up one good check of wood/composite propellor health. Immediately after shut down, carefully run your hands along each prop blade to find hot spots. A hot spot indicates a place where a delamination might be starting. It is normal for the blade to be warm close to the hub where it is heated by its connection to the crankshaft. One way to think about these props is that they attempt to be constant load props. The unloaded pitch of the propellor is rather steep (tall). Because the blade is swept, its center of lift is behind the mount point on the hub, so as load is increased, the lift center causes a torsional load, which flattens the pitch. A slick idea. Regards, Matt Prather VE N34RD, C150 714BK > > > Time: 10:18:56 PM PST US > From: "Larry H" > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Larry H" > > There used to be a company that made props called Warneke almost > constant speed props. They made some really good props that used some of > the theory that you are talking about. I do not know if they are still > in existence now or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I > think it was pronounced warn e key . > Good Luck > Larry H. > > > ----- Original Message ----- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:45 PM PST US From: "Luc H." <4luc@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design I went to the Warnke link and found a good example of a useless web site, try to find an email address or a photo of their products. The two links on the home page takes you to pages with one liners with no info. Their "send an e-mail us: warnkeairproducts.com" is a non existent web site, not an email address. The today's date on every page comes from your computers clock. warnkeairproducts.com , This domain is currently unregistered, anyone want this domain name, it's your for only $8.95 at www.GoDaddy.com If their web site is a reflection of their products and business practices, hold on to your money. Just an opinion! Give them a call and see if they answer the phone. The address is probably a mail drop (private postal box) judging by the two suite numbers. Warnke Air Products 3906 West Ina Road #200 Suite # 193 Tucson, Arizona 85741-2295 520-884-8132 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Here is a link to Warnke Propellers http://www.booksappraised.com/index.cfm?siteid75&p144 -Danny > or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was > pronounced warn e key . > Good Luck > Larry H. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:43 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "cgalley" It was Bernie's daughter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Prather" Subject: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" > > > Long time lurker here.... > > I have a Rutan Varieze on which I have tried a few different props. The > Warnke by far was the best performer, seeming to work as advertised. > It allowed the best static RPM for good takeoff performance, and yet > seemed to keep the engine loaded in cruise (best speed-RPM relationship). > This is anecdotal data, and probably flawed, partly because I the props > were all of slightly different diameter and pitch. Its possible that if I > had > a Great American or B&T of the same pitch and diameter, they would > have worked equally well. > > There are a couple of reported downsides to the Warnke. The first is > that the original builder (Bernie Warnke) died a few years ago. His wife > (Marge?) attempted to continue the business, but there have been many > reports of problems with customer service since then. I don't think she is > still trying to sell or service props now. > > Another concern is that because these props are flexible, they tend to > be less rugged that other types. If you bang it into something, suck a > rock through it, or fly through heavy rain, it may be more easily damaged. > As well, any time something is designed to be flexible, you run the risk > of having it vibrate at a low enough frequency that it might self destruct. > Think flutter. > > Finally, and this is probably not a concern on the Tailwind because of its > tractor installation, because the prop is flexible, on a pusher, each time a > blade flies through the turbulent wake behind the wing, it twists back and > forth a bit. Flexing any material causes heating, and in this case, the glue > holding the laminates together is the weakest link. Delamination is possible > if this heating raises the temperature of the glue beyond a certain > temperature. > > This brings up one good check of wood/composite propellor health. > Immediately > after shut down, carefully run your hands along each prop blade to find hot > spots. A hot spot indicates a place where a delamination might be starting. > It is normal for the blade to be warm close to the hub where it is heated > by its connection to the crankshaft. > > One way to think about these props is that they attempt to be constant load > props. The unloaded pitch of the propellor is rather steep (tall). Because > the blade is swept, its center of lift is behind the mount point on the > hub, so > as load is increased, the lift center causes a torsional load, which flattens > the pitch. A slick idea. > > > Regards, > > Matt Prather > VE N34RD, C150 714BK > > > > > > Time: 10:18:56 PM PST US > > From: "Larry H" > > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Larry H" > > > > There used to be a company that made props called Warneke almost > > constant speed props. They made some really good props that used some of > > the theory that you are talking about. I do not know if they are still > > in existence now or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I > > think it was pronounced warn e key . > > Good Luck > > Larry H. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:53 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" Chuck.... Just remember what the Tailwind uses for power and speed. In race trim like "Steve" would have liked, the prop is spinning somewhere from 2700 to 3000 rpm. This is also the range that the VariEze/Long Ez guys use when zipping across the continent. I believe the guys name is Ken Swain, you can do a search and if you find him (he still flies his VariEze) I'm sure he would provide you with a lot good info. He too built his own prop and he might be able to give you some hints about the carving process. If you are putting it on the Piet, it would look pretty nice. I used a Warnke on the Tailwind I got from Jerome. I would say it was a good compromise prop but nothing to write home to mom about. And Bernie isn't here anymore..... so? Again, Good Luck, Weav ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/28/04 11:07:00 PM Central Daylight Time, > Mytyweav@earthlink.net writes: > > << Great ideas and a lot of thought..... but.... If this stuff really > worked, everyone would be using it. What do you think the Reno Racer's do > about props? They do one helluva lot of studying and comparing notes to > find out what works. Because we have our airplanes built under the > Experimental umbrella, you can do a lot of experimenting to determine if > your ideas work or not.. It's a beautiful thing.... > My recommendation is as follows..... > First, use a prop for your engine that has already been used and used > successfully...document a variety of results... > Second, build a prop that you think will be better. > Third, make sure you are ready to try it out and mount it up. > fourth, Fly it all over the place taking good notes about speed, rpm and > manifold pressure. > I'm betting that the original prop will probably do a better job... But, > the cool thing is, you were able to prove it. > There was a guy in the VariEze/Long EZ bunch that thought a lot of the same > things... He carved several props and might even still fly in front of one > today but...... > They didn't work as good as some of the others that were readily available. > Chuck... I don't even want to come close to discouraging you.....but, this > subject has been beaten about for years... > Thank goodness you can try all the different versions you want... Those > tests will be very informative. We will all be excited to see the results. > Good Luck and Have fun, > Weav >> > > Thanks for the reply, with some good advise. It's very true that we have a > lot of room for experimentation, and that's a big part of what I really like > about our little nitch in aviation. What I would like to find is someone who > has actually experimented with this design...like Steve Wittman !! Oh, to be > able to go through some of his notes and thoughts on the Scimitar !! I would > like to avoid problems that others have found. The Scimitar Prop seems to be > more taylored to a slow turning engine, and gentle maneuvers. I think > Gyroscopic Precession, and the high r.p.m.'s of anything over 2400 or 2500 rpm would > be hard on this type prop. There are several broken props in Wittman's hanger, > that I wonder what happened with. > I'm flying behind a Continental A65, and a 72 X 42 prop that I built, and > it seems to work very well by the numbers I've accumulated during the past > 180 hours, or so. I don't have a MAP gauge. That and fuel flow would certainly > be helpful to show the differences between the props. With the slower speed > of my engine, and gentle maneuvers of a Pietenpol, it just seems to me to be a > taylor fit. I'll eventually build one, but it takes me a long time to build > and carve out a regular prop, let alone a Scimitar. > Thru the end of July and first of August, I completed a 3100 mile cross > country trip in the ol' Piet !! No mechanical or weather problems to speak of, > and it was the biggest adventure I've ever been on. > > Chuck G. > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:54 PM PST US From: "Bruce E. Butts" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Malcolm, I'd like to come if you can give driving instructions. Let me know if you want me to bring anything.... I am coming from Dublin so no big jaunt for me. Bruce Butts Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com wrote: >--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com > >Dan, can you make it on the 10-9? > >Malcolm > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Dan [SMTP:dannyjoe@insightbb.com] >>Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:17 PM >>To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R >> >>Fast Fred, >> >>Yep, Photoshop. While we were playing I though I'd do one. Tailwinds >>don't need any help to look good though, especially yours. That classic >>look is the hook that kept me coming back. I picked up a tidbit of >>information here and there, and now I live, eat and breathe Tailwinds. >>Maybe when I get to flying mine this utter obsession will let up some. I >>will be getting around to painting mine one of these days; right now I am >>working on tail wheel proficiency. I got 3.5 hours in this week in a Cub >>and a Champ, hope to get that much more this week. There is no substitute >>for good dual instruction, so I am staying after it until I go broke, >>which will be soon. I may have to hitch-hike to Malcolms... :-) >> >>-Dan >> >> >> >>- do not archive - >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver >>Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 2:31 PM >>To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R >> >> >> >>Dan.... Nice job on the landing gear and struts... Looks pretty damn >>good eh? Photo shop? >> >>Weav >> >>do not archive >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Dan >> >> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:57 AM >> >> Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R >> >> >> >> Don't need those pesky struts do we? >> >> -Danny >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com >> >>[mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Conner >> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:41 AM >> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R >> >> >> >> George I like this one better. I bet Weav will >>too...................Bob 149 >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >From: George Turner >> >> >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >> >> >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >> >> >Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R >> >> >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:07:55 -0700 (PDT) >> >> > >> >> >Check this out. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >--------------------------------- >> >> >> >vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! >> >> ><< W10-R.jpg >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:41 PM PST US From: "Lovelace" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Take I 70 West to South Vienna exit route 54 South. Go through S. V. cross US 40 and Old Osborne is first road on left. (about 1.5 miles) Go 2 miles house on the left, 12700 Old Osborne. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce E. Butts To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Malcolm, I'd like to come if you can give driving instructions. Let me know if you want me to bring anything.... I am coming from Dublin so no big jaunt for me. Bruce Butts Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com wrote: --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com Dan, can you make it on the 10-9? Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: Dan [SMTP:dannyjoe@insightbb.com] Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Fast Fred, Yep, Photoshop. While we were playing I though I'd do one. Tailwinds don't need any help to look good though, especially yours. That classic look is the hook that kept me coming back. I picked up a tidbit of information here and there, and now I live, eat and breathe Tailwinds. Maybe when I get to flying mine this utter obsession will let up some. I will be getting around to painting mine one of these days; right now I am working on tail wheel proficiency. I got 3.5 hours in this week in a Cub and a Champ, hope to get that much more this week. There is no substitute for good dual instruction, so I am staying after it until I go broke, which will be soon. I may have to hitch-hike to Malcolms... :-) -Dan - do not archive - -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Dan.... Nice job on the landing gear and struts... Looks pretty damn good eh? Photo shop? Weav do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:57 AM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R Don't need those pesky struts do we? -Danny -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Conner Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:41 AM To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R George I like this one better. I bet Weav will too...................Bob 149 do not archive >From: George Turner >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >To: tailwind-list@matronics.com >Subject: Tailwind-List: Tailwind W 10R >Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:07:55 -0700 (PDT) > >Check this out. > > >--------------------------------- >vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ><< W10-R.jpg >> ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design From: Jerry Hey A long time ago, Berne Warnke, took a deposit from me, to build a prop. After taking the deposit,. he did nothing. After a few months, he stopped returning my calls. It was outright fraud. I never got a prop or my deposit back. News of his death did bring a smile, however. Jerry On Wednesday, September 29, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Luc H. wrote: > I went to the Warnke link and found a good example of a useless web > site, try to find an email address or a photo of their products. The > two links on the home page takes you to pages with one liners with no > info. Their "send an e-mail us: warnkeairproducts.com" is a=A0non > existent web site, not an email address. The today's date on every > page comes from your computers clock. > > warnkeairproducts.com ,=A0This domain is currently unregistered, anyone > want this domain name, it's your for only=A0$8.95 at www.GoDaddy.com > If their web site is a reflection of their products and business > practices, hold on to your money. Just an opinion! Give them a call > and see if they answer the phone. The address is probably a mail drop > (private postal box) judging by the two suite numbers. > > Warnke Air Products > 3906 West Ina Road #200 Suite # 193 > Tucson, Arizona 85741-2295 > > 520-884-8132 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > > Here is a link to Warnke Propellers > > http://www.booksappraised.com/index.cfm?siteid75&p144 > > -Danny > > > > or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was > > pronounced=A0 warn e key . > > Good Luck > > Larry H. > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:15 PM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design I love it...... Margie isn't any better... She must have learned something from the old man... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Hey To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design A long time ago, Berne Warnke, took a deposit from me, to build a prop. After taking the deposit,. he did nothing. After a few months, he stopped returning my calls. It was outright fraud. I never got a prop or my deposit back. News of his death did bring a smile, however. Jerry On Wednesday, September 29, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Luc H. wrote: I went to the Warnke link and found a good example of a useless web site, try to find an email address or a photo of their products. The two links on the home page takes you to pages with one liners with no info. Their "send an e-mail us: warnkeairproducts.com" is a non existent web site, not an email address. The today's date on every page comes from your computers clock. warnkeairproducts.com , This domain is currently unregistered, anyone want this domain name, it's your for only $8.95 at www.GoDaddy.com If their web site is a reflection of their products and business practices, hold on to your money. Just an opinion! Give them a call and see if they answer the phone. The address is probably a mail drop (private postal box) judging by the two suite numbers. Warnke Air Products 3906 West Ina Road #200 Suite # 193 Tucson, Arizona 85741-2295 520-884-8132 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Here is a link to Warnke Propellers http://www.booksappraised.com/index.cfm?siteid75&p144 -Danny > or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was > pronounced warn e key . > Good Luck > Larry H. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:16 PM PST US From: "Estelle Danner" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design hey Hey Jerry ithink Jim has a wood scimitar prop on the back wall of his hanger Bob D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Hey To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:20 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design A long time ago, Berne Warnke, took a deposit from me, to build a prop. After taking the deposit,. he did nothing. After a few months, he stopped returning my calls. It was outright fraud. I never got a prop or my deposit back. News of his death did bring a smile, however. Jerry On Wednesday, September 29, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Luc H. wrote: I went to the Warnke link and found a good example of a useless web site, try to find an email address or a photo of their products. The two links on the home page takes you to pages with one liners with no info. Their "send an e-mail us: warnkeairproducts.com" is a non existent web site, not an email address. The today's date on every page comes from your computers clock. warnkeairproducts.com , This domain is currently unregistered, anyone want this domain name, it's your for only $8.95 at www.GoDaddy.com If their web site is a reflection of their products and business practices, hold on to your money. Just an opinion! Give them a call and see if they answer the phone. The address is probably a mail drop (private postal box) judging by the two suite numbers. Warnke Air Products 3906 West Ina Road #200 Suite # 193 Tucson, Arizona 85741-2295 520-884-8132 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Here is a link to Warnke Propellers http://www.booksappraised.com/index.cfm?siteid75&p144 -Danny > or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was > pronounced warn e key . > Good Luck > Larry H. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:56 PM PST US From: "Larry H" Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Hi Bill, I knew that he had died and that the daughter had taken over the business. If I remember correctly, there was some family infighting either while he was still alive or just after he died. The daughter and son in law were up to something but that has been a while back and I do not remember the facts exactly because I never did any business with them. I had heard that people had a hard time getting props from the daughter. Glad you are happy with your prop. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill newkirk To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design Larry; I have a Warnke "almost constant speed" prop on my Murphy Rebel. Margie Warnke says that it ranges from 46" to 56". I have no way of knowing if this is correct, but I am happy with the performance. It is a beautifully built prop BUT her service was the WORST. I think she may have run herself out of business. Her dad, Bernie Warnke, was the original guy. Bill Newkirk Prather, CA P.S. Fred; We rode the old BMW faster and further than we planned and as a result we went thru Jackson at dusk on Sat. We waved on the way by. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry H To: tailwind-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Larry H" There used to be a company that made props called Warneke almost constant speed props. They made some really good props that used some of the theory that you are talking about. I do not know if they are still in existence now or not. The spelling is wrong on Warneke but close, I think it was pronounced warn e key . Good Luck Larry H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "red" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "red" > > Chuck, > I don't know anything that will help you but wish you success. Keep us > informed. > Red > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:21 PM > Subject: Tailwind-List: Scimitar Prop Design > > > > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com > > > > I'm going to see if I can kick up any interest in the design of a > 'Scimitar > > Prop'. I've brought up this subject in years past on this list, but had > only > > limited interest. > > As we all know, a propeller absorbs the energy of the fuel burned in > the > > engine, and dispenses it in the form of thrust. Whenever energy is > > transformed from one form to another, some energy is transformed to some > other form > > which is lost to intent of thrust. Energy cannot be created nor > destroyed...it's > > a fact of physics. Therefore, the more efficiently the 'Potential' energy > of > > the fuel that is burned, can be transformed into thrust, the less fuel > will be > > required to perform a given amount of work. A given fixed pitch prop is > most > > efficient at a specific r.p.m., and a specific forward speed. This is why > > adjustable props came into play, and high performance airplanes usually > have > > Constant Speed Props. Here is where the Scimitar Prop comes in. The > blades of > > the Scimitar Prop will twist to a lower blade angle for the high thrust > > required for takeoff and climb, then once airborne and power is pulled, > the prop > > unloads and flexes back almost to the blade angle it was carved at. Hence > you > > have an adjustable blade angle prop, with No Moving Parts !! Pretty cool, > huh? > > Wood is the chosen material for this design, because it will not fatigue, > it's > > readily available, and it's relatively easy to work with. > > > > Here are the forces imposed upon a Propeller: > > > > 1. Centrifugal Force - Most powerful force, tends to pull the blades > > outward away from the hub. > > > > 2. Thrust Bending Force - Blade tips bend forward when put under a > load. > > > > 3. Torque Bending Force - Blades bend opposite the direction of > > rotation. > > > > 4. Aerodynamic Twisting Force - Twists the blade at the aerodynamic > > center of pressure. Tends to twist the blades to High Pitch. > > > > 5. Centrifugal Twisting Force - The Mass of the blade, under a > > centrifugal force, tends to twist the blades to a Lower Pitch. > > > > 6. Vibration Force (Resonance) - Everything has a resonant frequency, > > according to the mass, and the location of the mass. > > > > A Scimitar design prop takes advantage of these forces to twist the > > blades to a lower blade angle for takeoff and climb, and then when in > cruise flight > > and power is pulled back, and the prop unloads, the blade angle relaxes > back > > to a higher blade angle, and you have a cruise prop. > > Steve Wittman certainly understood the potential of a scimitar design, > as > > evidence on the wall of his hanger in Oshkosh. > > I still can't understand why all props aren't of scimitar design. > With > > enough Research and Development, then mass production could easily bring > the > > additional labor involved, down to a competitive cost. I have searched > the > > library at Oshkosh, lots of web sites, and asked lots of people about > scimitar > > props. By far, the best info I've found on it, is the couple of pages in > Eric > > Clutton's book. I did, however, discover that the concept came about in > W.W.I > > aircraft. The design showed potential, but what happened on several > occasions > > was that in a dogfight, the lead plane would go into a dive, in an effort > to > > escape the aggressor, and the engine / prop would overspeed, then the > blades > > would begin to flutter, and disintegrate. You can imagine the vibration > of a > > broken prop blade, and if power wasn't pulled and shut down the engine, it > would > > then shake the engine right off the plane, and now, with a tail heavy CG > > condition, the plane would spin to the ground. Even if the pilot was able > to shut > > down the engine in time, he was then a glider pilot...easy prey. I > believe > > when you over-run the prop of a scimitar design, the aerodynamics are what > > cause the flutter. I have heard stories about how props de-laminate when > using > > thin laminates of wood, however these props had the width of the planks in > the > > conventional direction. The cause of these de-laminations could have been > the > > technique of construction. The big question, is if any successful props > were > > built using the parameters that Eric Clutton set forth. I do not know the > > answer to that question. > > I still plan of building one, but haven't began construction, yet. > The > > method of construction I would use, is laminates of 1/4" or less, bend > each > > laminate in a jig, to match the 'S' shape of the prop, and use T88 > exclusively, > > but to avoid squeezing too much of the adhesive out, by using either scrim > > cloth between the laminates, or glass beads in the mixture of epoxy. The > type of > > wood would I'll use, is still undecided yet, but the type of types of > > acceptable prop wood is called out in the AC 43.13-1A. > > Now, the challenge of designing a reliable Scimitar Prop, using the > mass > > of the blade to twist the blade to a lower blade angle for takeoff and > climb, > > then back almost to the blade angles that they were cut at, when the prop > > unloads. The laminations would be perpendicular to the direction of > conventional > > props, so as to achieve the dramatic arc of the blades, as set forth by > Eric > > Cluttons design. > > I'm looking for any input, pros or cons, and especially if anyone is > > aware of an aircraft that has used this design prop successfully. > > > > > > Chuck Gantzer > > Pietenpol Aircamper > > NX770CG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > entirely see Matronics titlehttp://www.matronics.com/chat ">http://www.matronics.com/chat<< titlemailto:tailwind-list@matronics.com ">tailwind-list@matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/s List FAQ: http://www.matron Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search< 7-Day Browse: http://www.matroni Browse Digests: http://www.matroni Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat< Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archi Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/pho List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/ Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/ema Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:29 PM PST US From: "CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind" Subject: Tailwind-List: Progress Hey guys, We just finished gluing our ribs, leading& trailing edges, and crush plates to our spars. Both fuse sides are tacked. Friday we hope to build the fuse stations. We are on work day 18 of the project, and it is starting to look like something. I'm starting to think we might actually have it in the air by April. I have attached a few pictures of the wing progress. We still have to do the nose block, and wing tips. CJ Kirby memphistailwind@bellsouth.net N540CJ