Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:47 AM - List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:24 AM - Re: Props again... (Thomas Barnes)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: Propellers Again (James Ferris)
4. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Props again... (Malcolm.Lovelace@coopertools.com)
5. 06:09 AM - Re: Propellers Again (Fred Weaver)
6. 06:31 AM - Re: Emailing: TW Engine 014, TW Engine 007, TW Engine 008, TW (Stephen Doughty)
7. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Props again... (DaveM)
8. 07:12 AM - Re: Propellers Again (DaveM)
9. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Props again... (Jim and Donna Clement)
10. 12:49 PM - Fw: Props again... (Thomas Barnes)
11. 06:09 PM - Re: alternator (Eric Schlanser)
12. 06:44 PM - Re: Fw: Props again... (Dave Conrad)
13. 08:04 PM - Re: alternator (Jim and Donna Clement)
14. 09:58 PM - Re: Fw: Props again... (red)
Message 1
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| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - What Listers Are Saying... |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First, I'd like say *thank you* to everyone that has already made a
Contribution to this year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you! If you haven't
made your Contribution, won't you show your support for these valuable
services today? Since there's no advertising or other forms of direct
commercialism on the forums to support the Lists, its solely YOUR
GENEROSITY that keeps them running!!
Members have been including some very nice comments along with their
Contributions this year. Please take a minute to read over some of the
thoughts your fellow Listers have expressed regarding the Lists and what
they mean to them. What do the Lists mean to you...?
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
The amount of information and simple entertainment I derive from the lists
you administer is enormous.
-Chris R.
The [List] digest is the one message in my inbox that I look forward to
reading every day.
-Brian U.
[The Lists] are a major asset for the homebuilder.
-Gary K.
I use, and enjoy the List all the time. It is a fantastic tool.
-Patrick M.
[The List] has already paid for itself by answering two questions that I
had concerning construction of my [Homebuilt].
-Mike L.
[The List] has provided me with very useful information and helpful
building tips.
-Michael E.
Thanks for keeping this text-only and commercial free for all us dial-up
users! Your Lists are the best...
-Mark P.
Great service, I have learned many valuable lessons from others on the
[List]...
-Malcolm T.
...great List service [for] the many and varied within the aviation community.
-David P.
...great service.
-Terry B.
...enjoy monitoring the lists.
-Ed A.
...I do enjoy the Matrix (List).
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...GREAT lists...!
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It is a great service.
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Invaluable!
-Larry M.
[The Lists are] the backbone (along with a UK list for Europa) of my
building program.
-Fergus K.
Thanks for supporting aviation in this way.
-Reade G.
...wonderful source of info!
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-Kevin S.
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-John G.
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guys on the List.
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Thank you for keeping everyone in line :) Its a great list to stay
subscribed to.
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...the most important resource I have to support my hobby.
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Very valuable resource.
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...great service.
-William C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Props again... |
11/08/2004 06:20:06
Just a quick brief report on the new Sterba 69D X 75P prop on N393RC (160
HP, mag ignition, non-crossover exhaust engine, 170 lb pilot, full tank of
fuel).
Had some smooth air recently, and at 2300 MSL, 55 degrees F OAT, 2300 RPM,
it was indicating 171 mph. The airspeed seems to read about 5 mph slow on
N393RC as checked by a 3-way run with GPS, so this would give a solid 175
mph IAS at 2300 RPM with a corrected airspeed setup.... The prop is much
smoother than the previous one, and turns 2300 RPM static giving better
takeoff performance.
As noted by others here, the prop does in fact seem to have a little extra
meat on it, and looks like it could be tweaked for more pitch.... but I'm
happy with it the way it is....
Just some un-scientific observations fwiw
Thomas
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Propellers Again |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
What engine do you have to get 200 MPH?
--- Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
> BTW.... I totally agree with Jim if you have to go
> a long ways.... But a couple of inches of pitch can
> be reached probably with what you have. The props
> are so THICK when you first get one, there is some
> meat to work with.
> Good Luck,
> Weav
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Weaver
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Propellers Again
>
>
> Rework the prop you have..... Most prop guys can
> carve more pitch into it and thin the blades. Then
> glass it up for superior strength and stiffness.
> Saves you some money and gives your prop a second
> chance...
> Weav
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: IslPilot@aol.com
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 5:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Propellers Again
>
>
> With the mods that I have made last winter; new
> crossover exhaust, LSE plasma III, New airbox,
> better streamlined gear and wheel fairings, reduced
> weight by 28 lbs and fresh topcoat of paint. I am
> now turning an additional 200+ rpm static. Static
> was 2200 before and now I am slightly over 2400 with
> my 6872 Sterba. I am getting excited, before with
> two people I was cruising at 185 and could just hit
> 200 full throttle at 2700.
>
> My guess, now is that I need more pitch and a
> new propeller. Should have the test flight this
> coming week.
>
> You experts, any rules of thumb for pitch, on a
> conventional plane I have always figured about 4" of
> pitch changed the rpm approximately 50 rpm. That
> doesn't make sense with most Tailwinds running a
> 6872 or 6874 prop. I am assuming that I still want
> around 2200 rpm static so that at full throttle I
> will be at 27-2900 for max speed in cruise.
>
> How do I contact Sterba for another propeller?
> Or to rework this one.
>
> Other propeller woodartists out there that you
> have been satisfied with?
>
> Paul
> Charlevoix, MI
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Props again... |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Malcolm.Lovelace@CooperTools.com
Sounds good, what was the reason behind the 69D x 75P. Just curious.
Malcolm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Barnes [SMTP:barnest@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 7:31 AM
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Props again...
>
> Just a quick brief report on the new Sterba 69D X 75P prop on N393RC (160
> HP, mag ignition, non-crossover exhaust engine, 170 lb pilot, full tank of
> fuel).
>
> Had some smooth air recently, and at 2300 MSL, 55 degrees F OAT, 2300 RPM,
> it was indicating 171 mph. The airspeed seems to read about 5 mph slow on
> N393RC as checked by a 3-way run with GPS, so this would give a solid 175
> mph IAS at 2300 RPM with a corrected airspeed setup.... The prop is much
> smoother than the previous one, and turns 2300 RPM static giving better
> takeoff performance.
>
> As noted by others here, the prop does in fact seem to have a little extra
> meat on it, and looks like it could be tweaked for more pitch.... but I'm
> happy with it the way it is....
>
> Just some un-scientific observations fwiw
>
> Thomas
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Propellers Again |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
If your question is for me, the airplane has a Lycoming O-360.... If the
question is aimed at the group as a whole, the answer would be a Lycoming
O-320 is all that's needed to go 200. Or a Continental O-300 will do the
trick too.. and it's sooooo smooth.
The O-320 is probably the finest engine for the application. Good rate of
climb and very good cruise speed with nice fuel economy.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ferris" <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Propellers Again
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: James Ferris <mijniljj@yahoo.com>
>
> What engine do you have to get 200 MPH?
> --- Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > BTW.... I totally agree with Jim if you have to go
> > a long ways.... But a couple of inches of pitch can
> > be reached probably with what you have. The props
> > are so THICK when you first get one, there is some
> > meat to work with.
> > Good Luck,
> > Weav
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Fred Weaver
> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Propellers Again
> >
> >
> > Rework the prop you have..... Most prop guys can
> > carve more pitch into it and thin the blades. Then
> > glass it up for superior strength and stiffness.
> > Saves you some money and gives your prop a second
> > chance...
> > Weav
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: IslPilot@aol.com
> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 5:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Propellers Again
> >
> >
> > With the mods that I have made last winter; new
> > crossover exhaust, LSE plasma III, New airbox,
> > better streamlined gear and wheel fairings, reduced
> > weight by 28 lbs and fresh topcoat of paint. I am
> > now turning an additional 200+ rpm static. Static
> > was 2200 before and now I am slightly over 2400 with
> > my 6872 Sterba. I am getting excited, before with
> > two people I was cruising at 185 and could just hit
> > 200 full throttle at 2700.
> >
> > My guess, now is that I need more pitch and a
> > new propeller. Should have the test flight this
> > coming week.
> >
> > You experts, any rules of thumb for pitch, on a
> > conventional plane I have always figured about 4" of
> > pitch changed the rpm approximately 50 rpm. That
> > doesn't make sense with most Tailwinds running a
> > 6872 or 6874 prop. I am assuming that I still want
> > around 2200 rpm static so that at full throttle I
> > will be at 27-2900 for max speed in cruise.
> >
> > How do I contact Sterba for another propeller?
> > Or to rework this one.
> >
> > Other propeller woodartists out there that you
> > have been satisfied with?
> >
> > Paul
> > Charlevoix, MI
>
>
Message 6
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Engine 012
| Subject: | Emailing: TW Engine 014, TW Engine 007, TW Engine 008, |
TW
Engine 012
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Stephen Doughty" <usaviator1@hotmail.com>
Jim, your work is beautiful!
Steve -in Michigan
>From: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Tailwind-List: Emailing: TW Engine 014, TW Engine 007, TW Engine
>008, TW Engine 012
>Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 17:53:11 -0600
>
>Here is some engine baffle pictures Jim C.
><< TWEngine014.jpg >>
><< TWEngine007.jpg >>
><< TWEngine008.jpg >>
><< TWEngine012.jpg >>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Props again... |
Thomas:
What kind of performance did you get with WOT? I would think you would be exceeding
200 MPH.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:30 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Props again...
Just a quick brief report on the new Sterba 69D X 75P prop on N393RC (160 HP,
mag ignition, non-crossover exhaust engine, 170 lb pilot, full tank of fuel).
Had some smooth air recently, and at 2300 MSL, 55 degrees F OAT, 2300 RPM, it
was indicating 171 mph. The airspeed seems to read about 5 mph slow on N393RC
as checked by a 3-way run with GPS, so this would give a solid 175 mph IAS at
2300 RPM with a corrected airspeed setup.... The prop is much smoother than the
previous one, and turns 2300 RPM static giving better takeoff performance.
As noted by others here, the prop does in fact seem to have a little extra meat
on it, and looks like it could be tweaked for more pitch.... but I'm happy
with it the way it is....
Just some un-scientific observations fwiw
Thomas
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Propellers Again |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "DaveM" <dmagaw@att.net>
Craig Catto is refinishing my 68X74 Anmar Deluth (sp?) for the W-10. He
will be putting an aluminum backplate on it also, and resizing the bolt
holes for the 3/8 bolts. It will be interesting to then compare it to the
Catto prop I am now using on the W-10 which came off of the 150 HP W-8
(68X72). That prop has a wider chord than Fred's or Red's Catto props, and
with me alone I can climb at 2000 ft/min at 120 MPH. Top speed with that
prop (measured with ASI and GPS) was 205 MPH at 2920 RPM. I like the Catto
prop a lot, but I think I can get a couple more MPH and better cruising
speed, sacrificing some climb with the Anmar Deluth (sp).
Jim Clement--I haven't tried the Felix 68X77 prop yet. I suspect that it
will give a good cruise but be more anemic in climb.
Dave
>
> Catto lives about 30 miles away from me..... Great guy and makes a good
> prop. I had my prop completely stripped and cleaned up by Catto. He trued
> up
> the blades so that both would have the same pitch distribution and
> remachined the back face of the prop hub. Then completely reglassed and
> refinished it.... I'm a happy customer.
> Good Luck.
> Weav
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Props again... |
Dave, Both the Felix and Demuth that came with your TW were changed some. The numbers
on the props really don't tell much as to what they really are. I like
to have a manifold pressure gauge to compare props, it tells more about the power
setting of the engine than a tach. Cruise at 2500 feet use 23 - 24" MP depending
how much fuel you want to burn. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Props again...
Thomas:
What kind of performance did you get with WOT? I would think you would be exceeding
200 MPH.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:30 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Props again...
Just a quick brief report on the new Sterba 69D X 75P prop on N393RC (160 HP,
mag ignition, non-crossover exhaust engine, 170 lb pilot, full tank of fuel).
Had some smooth air recently, and at 2300 MSL, 55 degrees F OAT, 2300 RPM,
it was indicating 171 mph. The airspeed seems to read about 5 mph slow on N393RC
as checked by a 3-way run with GPS, so this would give a solid 175 mph IAS
at 2300 RPM with a corrected airspeed setup.... The prop is much smoother than
the previous one, and turns 2300 RPM static giving better takeoff performance.
As noted by others here, the prop does in fact seem to have a little extra
meat on it, and looks like it could be tweaked for more pitch.... but I'm happy
with it the way it is....
Just some un-scientific observations fwiw
Thomas
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fw: Props again... |
11/08/2004 13:48:30
Hi all,
First off, I agree with Jim in that a MP gauge is really great to have to
see how much power the engine is producing... 393RC doesn't have one... so
RPM and airspeeds is all I have to report... wish I had one. Oh - btw -
the Sterba prop is a 68 diameter, not a 69 diameter - sorry for the typo.
In regards to Malcom's question... I just didn't feel good with the
previous prop not turning much more than 2130 static ... the engine just
didn't seem happy at that low rpm, and I was sorta nervous getting out of
these short (relatively) grass strips frequented so often. Sooo.... after
much listening to advice here, and researching other lists, the decision to
give Mr. Sterba a try was made. The general impressions about take off,
climb, and this little bit of info about cruise seem to indicate he got the
prop design pretty close to what I was looking for.
Dave, I haven't done a WOT run yet - will let y'all know more results (as
in speeds at different rpm's & conditions) when another opportunity comes
along ...
Have to start looking for some time to start working on those cross over
exhausts... has anyone here done before and after performance comparisons
before and after they switched to a cross over exhaust, or 4 individual
exhaust, or 4 into 1 ? I've read the Cafe report on exhausts (not that I
understood much of it !) and it seems that there could be some performance
gains, as Paul indicated too. Real life numbers are easier for me to
grasp :-)
Thomas
=
Message 11
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
The local Pep Boys auto parts gets a $35 core charge
plus $115 for the alternator for $150 total. Brand
new. Lifetime guarantee.
Still beats ACS.
Eric
--- Jim and Donna Clement <168x@merr.com> wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna
> Clement" <168x@merr.com>
>
> The alternator is a Suzuki Samurai, same as Spruce
> sells for $400+.
> I bought two of them for less than $50 each on eBay,
> core charge alone is
> $80 at the parts store. Have used them before and
> are trouble free, much
> better than the Honda like I used on your TW. Jim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 8:38 PM
> Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Emailing: TW Engine 014,
> TW Engine 007, TW
> Engine 008, TW Engine 012
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by:
> "mytyweav@earthlink.net"
> > <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Holy Cow.... The exhaust pipes look GREAT! Then
> the Baffling looks superb
> > also.... But man, you have to LOVE THAT
> ALTERNATOR!...
> > :)
> > Weav
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Props again... |
In the book "Speed with Economy" a chapter is given to the exhaust. I
haven't read it for a while but having been a drag racer and having
built the cross over exhaust on my Hatz I feel qualified to at least
comment. I was planning on building a 4 into 1 exhaust for the tailwind
and running it thru a muffler of my own design derived from how a
intake silencer on a jet engine test cell is constructed. You can Walk
into the silencer and the noise gets so dead that it makes your ears
goofy. Anyhow I personally don't see a very big difference in any of
the exhaust systems performance wise, a few percent (2-5) at best. I
think the speed in a Tailwind is all in the cowl shape, prop and over
all keeping clean lines on the airframe. My time has been spent on
those areas. Dave Conrad
On Monday, November 8, 2004, at 01:59 PM, Thomas Barnes wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> First off, I agree with Jim in that a MP gauge is really great to have
> to see how much power the engine is producing... 393RC doesn't have
> one... so RPM and airspeeds is all I have to report... wish I had one.
> Oh - btw - the Sterba prop is a 68 diameter, not a 69 diameter - sorry
> for the typo.
>
> In regards to Malcom's question... I just didn't feel good with the
> previous prop not turning much more than 2130 static ... the engine
> just didn't seem happy at that low rpm, and I was sorta nervous
> getting out of these short (relatively) grass strips frequented so
> often. Sooo.... after much listening to advice here, and researching
> other lists, the decision to give Mr. Sterba a try was made. The
> general impressions about take off, climb, and this little bit of info
> about cruise seem to indicate he got the prop design pretty close to
> what I was looking for.
>
> Dave, I haven't done a WOT run yet - will let y'all know more results
> (as in speeds at different rpm's & conditions) when another
> opportunity comes along ...
>
> Have to start looking for some time to start working on those cross
> over exhausts... has anyone here done before and after performance
> comparisons before and after they switched to a cross over exhaust, or
> 4 individual exhaust, or 4 into 1 ? I've read the Cafe report on
> exhausts (not that I understood much of it !) and it seems that there
> could be some performance gains, as Paul indicated too. Real life
> numbers are easier for me to grasp :-)
>
> Thomas
>
>
Message 13
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Jim and Donna Clement" <168x@merr.com>
Eric, Check Niagara Air Parts. They have a kit using that alternator with
all brackets included for a little over $200 total. Jim
They have a website.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Schlanser" <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: alternator
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
>
> The local Pep Boys auto parts gets a $35 core charge
> plus $115 for the alternator for $150 total. Brand
> new. Lifetime guarantee.
>
> Still beats ACS.
>
> Eric
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Props again... |
I went to Kent Paser's seminar at OSH 04. About one-half of the things that he
"fixed" on his Mustang II are fixed already by design in the TW.
That said, the other half is well worth thinking about. And his work over a 22
year period increasing speed by something like 62mph while decreasing fuel burn
by about a gallon/hour is amazing. And part of it was exhuast work. The book
is still available from him for about $20.
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Conrad
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Fw: Props again...
In the book "Speed with Economy" a chapter is given to the exhaust. I haven't
read it for a while but having been a drag racer and having built the cross over
exhaust on my Hatz I feel qualified to at least comment. I was planning on
building a 4 into 1 exhaust for the tailwind and running it thru a muffler of
my own design derived from how a intake silencer on a jet engine test cell is
constructed. You can Walk into the silencer and the noise gets so dead that it
makes your ears goofy. Anyhow I personally don't see a very big difference in
any of the exhaust systems performance wise, a few percent (2-5) at best. I
think the speed in a Tailwind is all in the cowl shape, prop and over all keeping
clean lines on the airframe. My time has been spent on those areas. Dave Conrad
On Monday, November 8, 2004, at 01:59 PM, Thomas Barnes wrote:
Hi all,
First off, I agree with Jim in that a MP gauge is really great to have to see
how much power the engine is producing... 393RC doesn't have one... so RPM
and airspeeds is all I have to report... wish I had one. Oh - btw - the Sterba
prop is a 68 diameter, not a 69 diameter - sorry for the typo.
In regards to Malcom's question... I just didn't feel good with the previous
prop not turning much more than 2130 static ... the engine just didn't seem
happy at that low rpm, and I was sorta nervous getting out of these short (relatively)
grass strips frequented so often. Sooo.... after much listening to advice
here, and researching other lists, the decision to give Mr. Sterba a try
was made. The general impressions about take off, climb, and this little bit of
info about cruise seem to indicate he got the prop design pretty close to what
I was looking for.
Dave, I haven't done a WOT run yet - will let y'all know more results (as in
speeds at different rpm's & conditions) when another opportunity comes along
...
Have to start looking for some time to start working on those cross over exhausts...
has anyone here done before and after performance comparisons before
and after they switched to a cross over exhaust, or 4 individual exhaust, or
4 into 1 ? I've read the Cafe report on exhausts (not that I understood much of
it !) and it seems that there could be some performance gains, as Paul indicated
too. Real life numbers are easier for me to grasp :-)
Thomas
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