Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - 2004 List of Contributors - A Special Thank You... (Matt Dralle)
2. 05:02 AM - Re: W-8 questions (Robert Ardis)
3. 05:40 AM - turbines (Bob Conner)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: turbines (dmagaw@att.net)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: turbines (George Turner)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: W-8 questions (George Turner)
7. 07:43 AM - Re: W-8 questions (Bob Danner)
8. 07:50 AM - Re: turbines (Luc H.)
9. 07:55 AM - Re: W-8 questions (DaveM)
10. 12:37 PM - Re: turbines (Fred Weaver)
11. 02:23 PM - Re: W-8 questions (Dean Dayton)
12. 03:05 PM - Re: W-8 questions (Dean Dayton)
13. 03:27 PM - Re: W-8 questions (Jerry Hey)
14. 06:54 PM - Re: W-8 questions (red)
15. 07:11 PM - Re: turbines (Dave Conrad)
16. 07:18 PM - Re: W-8 questions (Dave Conrad)
17. 07:47 PM - j-winddesigns.com (Jerry Hey)
18. 11:27 PM - Re: turbines (Fred Weaver)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2004 List of Contributors - A Special Thank You... |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First let me say Thank You to everyone that made a Contribution in support
of the Lists this year! I was particularly touched by all of the wonderful
comments people made regarding the Lists and how much they mean to
them. As I have said many times before, running these Lists and creating
the many new features is truly a labor of love. This is why your comments
of support and appreciation have particular meaning for me. Your
generosity during this time of List support only underscores the delightful
sentiments people have made regarding the Lists.
I would also once again like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) who so generously supported this year's
Fund Raiser with both free and substantially discounted merchandise!! Andy
is truly one of a kind, and a superb businessman, and I cannot thank him
enough for all that he's done! If you have any aircraft media needs in the
near future, I would ask that you please give his great web site a
look. Thanks again Andy, for all your support!
And I would also like to thank Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises
(www.kitlog.com) who has generously contributed free registered copies of
his great Windows Kit Logging software called Kitlog Pro in support of this
year's List Fund Raiser! Thank you, Paul! For those of you that selected
this sweet gift, you should be receiving your Registration Key directly
from Paul in the next week or so.
And finally, below you will find the 2004 List of Contributors current as
of 12/5/04! Have a look at the list of names there as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank you all
enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund
Raiser! THANK YOU!
There are still a few of the various Free Gifts left, so please feel free
to yet make your Contribution and get a great Free Gift to-boot! Once
again, the URL for the Contributions web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks. I hope to
have everything shipping out by the end of the month. Generally everything
will go out via USPS, so be nice to your postman this month, he might be
bringing you something fun!
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------ 2004 List of Contributors ---------------------
Aldrich, Scott
Alexander, George
Aller, Daniel
Alley, Brian
Amos, Paul
Amundsen, Blair
Anderson, Edward
Anthony, Bruce
Applefeld, Gerald
Applegate, William
Arbeitman, Gordon
Archer, Matt
Ashcraft, Keith
Ashford, James
Austin, Peter
Ayers, Jim
Babb, Tony
Bahrns, Stan
Bailey, Rick
Baker, Jim
Baker, Mike
Baker, Owen
Baker, Roger
Baker, Victor
Bakke, Bj%f8rn
Baldwin, James
Ballard, Jerry
Ballenger, James
Banes, John
Banyai, Michael
Barnes, Tom
Barnett, W.Mark
Barrie, Darwin
Barter, Tom
Basiliere, Rick
Bates, Jr, Marcus
BauerJr, Fred
Bean, James
Bean, Robert
Beauchamp, Norm
Beene, Kenneth
Bell, Bruce
Benjamin, Hal
Benson, Lonn
Benson, Lonnie
Bergh, Dave
Bernard, William
Berner, Walter
Bernier, Jim
Bertelli, John
Berthet, Andre
Bertz, Gary
Bettmeng, Rick
Bezzard, Richard
Bidle, Jerry
Bieberdorf, Roger
Bikle, Alan
Bish, Dan
Blackwell, Charles
Blackwell, Jimmie
Blake, James
Boardman, Don
Bockelman, David
Boetto, Steve
Bonds, Kevin
Boothe, Gary
Booze, George
Borger, Robert
Borne, Chuck
Bothe, Andreas
Boucher, Michel
Boulet, Paul
Bourne, Larry
Bowden, Terry
Bowen, Larry
Bowhay, Eustance
Bowman, John
Boyd, Don
Boyer, James
Brame, Charles
Brandt, Leroy
Branscomb, Warren
Brasch, Glenn
Breckenridge, Bruce
Brick, John
Briggs, Tracy
Brooks, John
Brooks, Sterling
Broom, Richard
Brown, David
Brown, Ken
Brown, Kent
Brown, Robert
Brunke, John
Bryan, Mark
Bryan, Tim
Bryant, Geoff
Buchanan, Guy
Buchanan, Sam
Buchmann, Kenneth
Buehlmann, Peter
Buess, Alfred
Bullock, Jack
Burden, Ronald
Burke, James
Burnett, Ron
Burns, Mark
Burrill, Phil
Burton, Charlie
Burton, James
Butcher, Jim
Butcher, Ron
Butler, Francis
Butler, Sherman
Butler, Thomas
Butterfield, John
Buyse, Lieven
Caldwell, Lapsley
Calloway, Terry
Cann, Robert
Cannon, Paul
Cantrell, Jimmy
Cantrell, Kenneth
Capen, Ralph
Capra, Salvatore
Carlton, Raymond
Carpenter, Kenneth
Carroll, Randy
Carter, David
Carter, Howard
Cary, William
Celestre, Rich
Challgren, Stanley
Chambers, Leslie
Chandler, Rick
Chatham, Bob
Chenoweth, William
Chevaillier, Mason
Ciolino, John
Clark, James
Clark, John
Clay, Dennis
Clayton, James
Clement, Jim
Clyma, Frank
Coalwell, Timothy
Cochran, Stewart
Cockrell, Alan
Coggins, Mickey
Cole, Gary
Cole, Gerry
Collins, Bob
Colucci, Tony
Combs, Doyle
Compton, Scott
Condrey, Bob
Conkling, J.Michael
Connell, Joseph
Conrad, Gerald
Constant, Jeremy
Cook, Craig
Cook, Doug
Cooley, John
Cooper, James
Copeland, Garrett
Corbalis, .Leo
Corbett, Claude
Corder, Michael
Corner, Jim
Corriveau, Grant
Cottingham, Richard
Cottrell, Larry
Coursey, William
Courtney, James
Cox, JimL.
Crane, James
Cravener, Don
Craze, Gary
Cribb, William
Crimm, Steve
Crockett, James
Crosby, Harry
Crosley, Rich
Crowe, Michael
Cruikshank, Bruce
Cummings, Tom
Dalstrom, Douglas
Dalton, Bob
Danclovic, Paul
Danielsen, HansJ%f8rgen
Danner, Robert
Daudt, Larry
Daughenbaugh, Rj
Daves, Russell
Davidson, Janet
Davidson, Jeff
Davies, Brian
Davis, Charles
Davis, Peter
Davis, Robert
Dawson, Clif
Dawson, Garth
De Jong, Jan
Decuir, John
Deford, David
Deits, DPaul
Dennis, Chris
Dettmer, Randy
Dewees, Ron
Dial, Larry
Diehl, Donald
Disher, John
Dixon, Thomas
Dominey, Clifford
Dominy, Kenneth
Donaghue, James
Donaldson, Norman
Donato, John
Dornseif, Keith
Dowling, Jeff
Dresden, Robert
Dubroc, Tommy
Dudley, Richard
Duffy, Russell
Dukerich, Tom
Duncan, Rod
Durakovich, David
Durbrow, John
Eckel, John
Edwards, Joseph
Ehlers, ClydeD.
Elder,jr, William
Eli, Robert
Ellenberger, Mike
Elliott, Andrew
Ellis, Dale
Ellsworth, Jim
Elrod, Michael
Emberson, Cory
Engh, Duncan
Enns, Dennis
Ensing, Dale
Erb, Robert
Erickson, Alan
Ervin, Thomas
Erwin, Chip
Esterhuizen, Deon
Evans, Kathleen
Evans, Marion
Fackler, Ken
Fair, WilliamD
Falik, Donald
Farrell, Patrick
Farris, Greg
Fasching, John
Faulkner, Thomas
Featherston, Les
Feldman, Herb
Ferguson, Darren
Ferguson, Jay
Ferguson, John
Fifield, Scott
Figgins, David
Filucci, Michael
Firm, Howard
Fischer, Douglas
Fischer, John
Fishe, JF
Fisher, Michael
Fitt, Lowell
Fitzpatrick, Robert
Fix, Douglas
Flavin, John
Fluent, Grant
Foerster, James
Fogerson, Richard
Ford, John
Ford, Larry
Fordham, Chris
Forsberg, Erik
Fox, Byron
Frantz, Terry
Frederickson, John
French, James
Friel, Christopher
Frye, Dwight
Fulgham, Bill
Fullilove, Ken
Fulmer, JosephA
Fulp, John
Fussell, Larry
Futrell, Billie
Fux, Franz
Gagnon, Laurent
Gagnon, Tim
Gardner, Albert
Garforth, Richard
Gates, Leo
Gauthier, Alain
Geese, Ronald
Geldermann, Daniel
Genzlinger, Reade
George, Joseph
George, Neal
George, William
German, Mark
Gernetzke, Jill
Gherardini, Don
Giacona, William
Gibbons, Robert
Gibbs, Al
Giddens, Gerald
Giles, Tom
Gillespie, Rl
Gilliatt, Jim
Gingell, Rob
Gitt, Larry
Glaeser, Dennis
Glass, Roy
Glauser, David
Gleason, Mike
Goguen, Nelson
Golden, Shane
Goode, Richard
Goodings, John
Goodridge, Stuart
Goolsby, Jim
Gordon, Keith
Gott, Shelby
Gottelt, Herbert
Goudinoff, Peter
Gowing, John
Grabb, Gary
Graber, Joel
GrahamJr, WDoyce
Graichen, Peter
Grant, Jordan
Grantz, Alan
Green, Luther
Greenough, James
Gregory, Steve
Griese, Wayne
Griffin, Bill
Griffin, Robert
Grosse, John
Gummo, Thomas
Gunn, Jim
Gunn, John
Gustafson, Aaron
Haecker, H.Ivan
Haertlein, Frank
Hagar, Steve
Hale, Adrian
Hale, Michael
Haley, Gary
Hall, Charles
Hall, Joel
Hallsten, Keith
Hamer, Steve
Hamilton, Red
Hamilton, William J
Hankins, Roger
Hansen, Graham
Hansen, Ronald
Harding, Christopher
Haring, Robert
Harmon, John
Harmon, Loren
Harrison, Nigel
Harrod, Peter
Hart, Jack
Hartley, Keith
Harvey, Dale
Hasler, James
Hasper, Jim
Hatch, Pat
Hatfield, Cicil
Hauck, John
Haverlah, Dennis
Heath, Donald
Heaton, Herb
Hedrick, Keith
Hefner, Jim
Hegler, Freddie
Heindl, Karl
Helming, Larry
Henson, Eric
Henwick, Mark
Heritch, Ian
Herminghaus, John
Herrick, DavidC
Herron, Al
Hershberger, Edward
Hetrick, Dale
Heykoop, John
Hibbing, William
Higgins, Floran
Higgins, Graham
Hilker, David
Hill, Buryl
Hill, Jeff
Hill, StanleyA.
Hinrichsen, James
Hodge, Jack
Hodgson, Bob
Hodgson, Mark
Hoffman, Allan
Hoffman, Carl
Hoffmann, Thomas
Holifield, Steve
Holland, Rick
Holmes, Paul
Hood, Bill
Hooper, Randy
Hoover, Ralph
Hopper, Daniel
Horne, Gilbert
Horton, Kevin
Hoyle, Clifford
Hubbard, Eugene
Hueltz, Wolfgang
Hughes, Robert
Humes, Hubert
Humphrey, Steve
Hurd, James
HurnsAircraft, JohnA.Hurn
Hurst, Kingsley
Hutcheson, Galen
Hutcheson, Joe
Hutcheson, Joseph
Hutchison, Tom
Hyde, Ken
Hyndman, Ross
Imken, Chuck
Inman, George
Isler, Jerry
Jacko, Victor
Jackson, Kevin
James, Ken
Jarvis, Andrew
Jaussi, Curtis
Jenkins, John
Jensen, Charles
Jensen, Jim
Jensen, Marinus
Johannsson, Johann
Johansson, Max
Johnsen, Svein
Johnson, Anthony
Johnson, Dale
Johnson, Darrell
Johnson, Dennis
Johnson, Edwin
Johnson, Les
Johnson, Lytle
Johnson, Thomas
Johnston, Bruce
Johnston, Leroy
Johnston, Stephen
JonCroke, Homebuilthelp.Com
Jones, Alvin
Jones, Eric
Joosten, Craig
Jordan, JR
Joyce, David
Joyce, John
Jula, TheodoreF
Jung, John
Jurotich, Matthew
Kaluza, Charles
Kane, Lawrence
Kaser, Jim
Katra, James
Kearney, John
Keener, Forest
Kellum, Mark
Kempthorne, Hal
Kennedy, Robert
Kent, John
Kesterton, Donald
Kilburg, Larry
Killion, Clay
Kimsey, Thomas
King, Jack
King, John
Kirby, David
Kirby, Dennis
Klein, Fred
Klingmuller, Lothar
Kohles, Jerry
Koonce, R.L.
Kosta, Michael
Koyich, Ron
Kramer, Ed
Krasinski, Jerzy
Krok, Peter
Krueger, Grant
Kruleski, Chet
Kruleski, ChetM.
Krysztopik, Gary
Kuehn, George
Kunkel, Fred
Kuntz, Paul
Kyle, Fergus
Laird, Dave
Lake, Bob
Lalonde, Bart
Landucci, Larry
Lannon, Walter
Lansden, John
Larzilliere, Alain
Lathrop, Jim
Laughlin, Ron
Laurence, Peter
Laurie, Kip
Lawson, John
Lawton, John
Lax, Chuck
Lechkun, Dave
Ledbetter, Gene
Ledoux, Paul
Lee, BoonLeong
Lefler, Fabian
Leggette, Edward
Lehmann, August
Leinberger, Construction
Lekven, Carl
Lemen, Ted Lemen
Lenton, Dennis
Lerohl, Gaylen
Lewis, Terry
Licking, Lawrence
Liebmann, Ron
Lind, David
Lineberry, Gary
Linse, Michael
Lively, Chad
Long, Charles
Long, Eugene
Long, PatrickG
Longwell, Anna
Loring, Arthur
Loubert, Gary
Lovchik, Alan
Lovley, Forrest
Luther, Mike
Lyden, Jim
Macdonald, Larry
Macinnes, Bruce
Mackay, Alex
Madden, Peter
Mader, David
Madigan, Bob
Mains, Ralph
Malczynski, Fran
Mansfield, Ray
Markey, John
Markle, Jim
Markwwell, Cleone
Marr, Giffen
Marshall, Tony
Marshall, William
Martin, Brad
Martin, Bryan
Martin, Mickey
Martinez, Ernest
Martinez, Ernest
Marzluf, John P.
Mason, John
Mason, Marty
Massey, Allen
Mather, Peter
Matlack, Dean
Matteson, Lynn
Maxson, Phillip
Mayer, Neil
Maynard, Brad
Mcanally, Robert
Mccallister, Donald
Mccallum, Robert
Mccarty, Mike
Mcconnell, Roger
Mcculley, Jim
Mcdonald, Frank
Mcfarland, Larry
Mcfarland, Randy
Mcfarlane, Lloyd
Mcgregor, Bruce
Mcintyre, Jay
Mcintyre, Patrick
Mcleod, Neil
Mcnutt, George
Mcpherson, Miller
McShane, Eugene
Mears, Mike
Medeiros, Joel
Mei, Don
Mekeel, DonaldE
Melenyzer Iv, Cl
Merchant, Dean
Messinger, Paul
Metzger, Jim
Meyer, Steve
Meyers, Jess
Michaud, David
Miles, Simon
Milgrom, Mark
Miller, David
Miller, Mark
Miller, William
Mills, Moe
Mills, Rodney
Mills, William
Mitchell, Dale
Mitchell, Duane
Moak, Ken
Montagne, Ray
Moore, David
Moore, Goff
Moore, Warren
Moran, Felix
Morisse, Darrel
Morrison, Douglas
Morrow, Dan
Mortimore, Terry
Mrotzek, Dan
Mueller, Michael
Munn, Mike
Munz, Devin
Murphy, Thomas
Murphy, Walt
Murray, Ronald
Myers, George
Myers, John
Nadeau, Michael
Nation, Arthur
Navratil, Richard
Naylor, Bruce
Neilsen, Richard
Nelson, Jim
Nelson, Larry
Nelson, William
Newkirk, Bill
Nicely, Vincent
Nichols, CE
Nickson, Dennis
Niedermeyer, Carl
Niles, Bruce
Noon, Bruce
North, Wheeler
Nowakowski, Don
Noyer, Robert
Nuckolls, Robert
O Reilly, Colm
O'Brien, Dan
Ockuly, Bernie
Oconnor, Edward
Ohara, T.
Ohlinger, Mark&Judy
Okeefe, Lawrence
Oldford, David
Olds, Robert R.
Olofsson, Brian
Olsen, Paul
Olson, Bob
Olson, Tim
Olson, Tom
Omelchuck, Jason
Orear, Jeff
Osborne, Roger
Owens, Duane
Palamarek, Ted
Park, David
Parker, Dennis
Partyka, LeeM
Patellos, Sam
Patsey, Kevin
Paule, David
Paulich, John
Paulsen, David
Payne, Craig
Pearsall, Don
Peck, Brian
Pedersen, Wayne
Pelletier, Dave
Perez, M.Domenic
Perry, Gregg
Persels, Lyle
Petersen, Dave
Petersen, Paul
Peterson, Alex
Peterson, DavidA
Petri, David
Pettey, Don
Petty, Paul
Peyton, Douglas
Pfeifer, Michael
Pflimlin, Paul
Pfundt, Jan
Phillips, Mark
Phipps, Mark
Pierce, Tony
Pike, Richard
Pilling, Kevin
Pocock, Graham
Point, Jeff
Pollard, Jim
Porter, Denis
Porter, John
Porter, Richard
Portouw, Lawrence
Powell, Ken
Power, Stephen
Preston, Doug
Przestrzelski, John
Puckett, Greg
Puglise, James
Puls, Jeffrey
Quinn, Rollie
Rabaut, Chuck
Radford, Joe
Rampil, Ira
Randolph, George
Rasmussen, Chris
RayJr., RobertG.
Redmon, James
Reel, David
Reid, Greg
Reith, Bruno
Render, James
Reyes, Randy
Reyna, Jake
Reynolds, Richard
Rhea, Larry
Rice, Mike
Richards, Stephen
Richardson, Colin
Rickard, Ian
Rickman, Loy
Rigby, David
Ritter, Mark
Roberts, Gary
Roberts, Rick
Robertson, Bob
Rodenbush, James
Rodriguez, Paul
Rodriguez-flores, Pedro
Romine, Chris
Ronnau, James
Ross, Christopher
Rowe, Jay
Rozendaal, Douglas
Rudnick, Ron
Ruksnaitis, William
Russell, Frank
Russell, Jack
Russell, Larry
Russell, Randy
Sa, Carlos
Sager, Truman
Sagerser, JamesA.
Saligman, Ira
Salter, Phil
Sapp, Doug
Sargent, Thomas
Savarese, AnthonyDennis
Sax, Sam
Scaggs, Billy
Scarlett, Donald
Schieber, Cedric
Schieffer, Charles
Schlafly, Fred
Schlanser, Eric
Schlosser, Kevin
Schmidt, Patty And John
Schneider, Keith
Schneider, Werner
Schoenberger, H.Robert
Schoonover, Donovan
Schrader, Kurt
Schrimmer, Mark
Schroeder, Earl
Schroeder, John
Scott, Mark
Scott, Richard
Scott, Troy
Scroggs, Ross
Seal, John
Seaton, Gary
Selby, Jim
Selix, Richard
Servaty, Paul
Sessford, Kenneth
Shablow, John
Shafer, Jim
Shank, William
Shanks, Jim
Shaw, Cliff
Shaw, Rex
Sheen, JamesD.
Shepherd, Dallas
Shepherd, Stanislaus
Shiple, Fred
Shipley, Rob
Shipley, Walt
Shumaker, James
Shumaker, Robert
Siegfried, OldBob
Silvester, Andy
Simenauer, David
Simmons, Kendall
Simpson, Larry
Sinke, Jim
Sipp, Richard
Skelly, Brian
Slater, Martin
Sletten, Mark
Sloan, Alex
Slutz, Gary
Smith, David
Smith, Ed
Smith, Gene
Smith, Joe
Smith, Tracy
Smythe, Donald
Snedaker, Bob
Sorensen, Lance
Spainhower, Craig
Sparks, Tim
Specht, Stan
Spencer, Scott
Sport Plane LLLC, John & Debra McBean
Springer, Jerry
Staal, Stephen
Stafford, Patrick
Staley, Dick
Staples, Brian
Starke, Jonathan
Starn, John
Stauffer, Mark
Steele, Jack
Steffler, Terry
Steuber, Edward
Stewart, Michael
Stewart, Shannon
Stinemetze, Thomas
St-laurent, Ray
Stone, Christopher
Stone, James
Stone, Rob
Strange, Ted
Strong, Gary
Stroud, David
Stuart, Bill
Stuart, T.Clay
Suffoletto, Richard
Sulloway, Alvah
Sutterfield, Stan
Swaney, Mark
Swanson, Ronald
Sweidan, Gerald
Swinford, George
Szantho, JohnB
Talley, Quinn
Tasker, Richard
Tatham, Will
Tatham`, Will
Tellet, David
Textor, Jack
Tezyk, Robert
Therrien, Michel
Thomas, Lee
Thomas, Ned
Thomason, Mannan
Thomason, Michael
Thomson, Malcolm
Thwing, RandyL.
Timm, Peter
Tode, Michael
Toivio, Raimo
Tomlin, Thomas
Tompkins, Jeff
Tonkin, Randy
Toro, Jose
Tower, John
Tower, Nelson
Tuck, John
Tuckwell, Richard
Tupper, Kirby
Tuton, Beauford
Tvedte, John
Tyler, George
Unruh, Brian
Unternaehrer, Rolf
Uribe, Guillermo
Utter, Robert
Valovich, Paul
Vanartsdalen, Scott
Vance, Donn
Vandenbroek, Martin
Vandervort, Ronald
Vangrunsven, Stan
VanHeeswijk, Jack
VanSanten, Don
Vanwinkle, Alden
Varnes, William
Venohr, Robert
Verdev, Victor
Vermeulen, Bob
Vervoort, Jef
Vetterli, Richard
Von Bevern, Brian
Von Doymi, Carl
Vormbaum, John
Voss, Richard
Vranken, Karel
Wagner Jr., James E.
Wagoner, Richard
Walker, Thomas
Walker, Weston
Walmsley, Brett
Walrath, Howard
Walsh, Denis
Walter, Daniel
Wanamaker, John
Washburn, Ollie
Waters, Pete
Watson, Richard
Watson, Terrence
Weaver, Fred
Webb, Randol
Wehner, Clement
Weiler, Douglas
Wells, George
Welsh, Don
Wetzel, Bob
Whelan, Thomas
White, Charles
White, Phil
Whiteley, Kenneth
Whitman, Timothy
Whittington, Dewitt
Wigney, John
Wikstrom, Michael
Wiley, Robert
Williams, Terry
Williamson, Danny
Willig, Louis
Wimmer, Thomas
Winfree, Anthony
Woboril, David
Wolf, James
Wolfe, Brooks
Wood, Callbie
Wood, Frank
Wood, Larry
Wright, David
Wright, Jim
Wsiaki, Michael
Wymer, Gerald
Yager, Jack
Yeamans, David
Young, Dee
Young, Greg
Young, John
Zinkham, Ralph
Zollinger, Duane
Zuniga, Oscar
Zweifel, Ron
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis" <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
"MY TWO CENTS WORTH"
Dean, my W-8, built in 63 and reworked in '76 had an empty weight of
775 lbs and a gross
of 1400lbs. It had a 36 gallon tank and it did fine with a 0-290. With the
0-235, your bird may be a little slow getting off but 2 hours of fuel should
be about 100 pounds, with reserve about 125 lbs.
I would think the empty weight is within 'reason' and your gross should be
be also. It should fly fine.
As far as landing, with 100 or so hour of tailwheel time, it should not
give you any trouble
after a some practice. Being a small plane, it appears to land faster than
it really does. A lot of taxi
practice-tail up/tail down-with the Tailwind, on a runway without traffic,
will increase your confidence on handling the TW at all speeds and on
landing.
Good luck.
>From: "Dean Dayton" <deandayton@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Tailwind-List: W-8 questions
>Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 16:35:30 -0500
>
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dean Dayton" <deandayton@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi,
>
>I have an opportunity to buy a very nice W-8 Tailwind with an 0-235. I'm
>hoping that I can get the answers to a few questions.
>
>What is the design max weight of the W-8? The plane I am looking at is
>890lb empty. Is it practical to put 2 people (400 lb) and a few pounds of
>luggage and 2 or more hours of fuel in a W-8?
>
>Are there relatively simple modifications that can increase the leg room
>for the passenger. My girfriend is 6ft tall and all leg (37 inch inseam).
>The plane I am considering is an early Tailwind with a tube running
>straight across the fuselage that the seatback rests against. I was told
>that there is a modification to move the seatback aft. Is this something
>that can be done easily to a completed plane? Are there drawings for this
>available?
>
>I have seen the folding rudder pedals on another W-8. Are there drawings of
>this mod available somewhere?
>
>Last, but certainly not least. How challenging is the Tailwind to takeoff
>and land? I am a 200 hour pilot with over 100 hours of tailwheel time. But
>all of my tailwheel time is in very slow airplanes (Champ, Cub, etc).
>
>The weather prevented me from taking a ride in the plane when I went to
>look at it. I hope next weekend is better, it looks like a fun airplane
>
>Dean Dayton
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 3
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DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list
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NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the
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Message 4
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There was some turbine manufacturer/retailer at Oshkosh 2003 advertising a small
turbine for experimental aircraft. I suggested to Jim Clement and Fred that
Clement install that one on Tailwind #9. Clement went traditional however and
put another O-320 on it. There is a turbine powered RV-3 or something that
is flying around--saw an article on it a while back.
Dave
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
There was some turbine manufacturer/retailer at Oshkosh 2003 advertising a small
turbine for experimental aircraft. I suggested to Jim Clement and Fred that
Clement install that one on Tailwind #9. Clement went traditional however and
put another O-320 on it. There is a turbine powered RV-3 or something that is
flying around--saw an article on it a while back.
Dave
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 5
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=J2dLD2ixJFpWG+ylcK2vblTPTMSaZWRjA24//T3jyLLxobK41OoRW3XECGP6gVKRNRofQ+GYfFR8F4718KO5x942JIVTbe+29l3kPyGHg0Tu3zShhoV9Tgg3ZuOUS3aE32Op2EM8CNvD6uXLvOyDZiIU5ZskqJ82u8vWnB5BzYY=
;
The RV needs a turbine to keep up with a Tailwind. George
Bob Conner <bdconner@hotmail.com> wrote: --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bob Conner" I don't know who all gets Avweb, but they had an interesting article this morning on turbines. Check out this link http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/index_aviation.html Fred could put one these on his plane and with his oxygen go to FL20..................Bob 149
---------------------------------
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=XoZ1RYKRf63tdfldfJ5MPdomWLqGDzNY5PBwIlDdfR8XzNuXLTlAckBzr5xXy2DPWhh5YgYqy1g5SrL7MTAi2vw9N/JMrmzcxuJ4yPEtbF3kvlZJ0kQcFqkDGTyHAXnJKUM9ROCPgN8x9WDvdo3d1urp7NjldYKU/rfJtV0DdbQ=
;
| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
Dean: I have owned two Tailwinds with the 0-235. I think it will meet your requirements
except you might have to get a shorter girl friend. George....Phoenix
Dean Dayton <deandayton@hotmail.com> wrote:--> Tailwind-List message posted by:
"Dean Dayton"
Hi,
I have an opportunity to buy a very nice W-8 Tailwind with an 0-235. I'm
hoping that I can get the answers to a few questions.
What is the design max weight of the W-8? The plane I am looking at is 890lb
empty. Is it practical to put 2 people (400 lb) and a few pounds of luggage
and 2 or more hours of fuel in a W-8?
Are there relatively simple modifications that can increase the leg room for
the passenger. My girfriend is 6ft tall and all leg (37 inch inseam). The
plane I am considering is an early Tailwind with a tube running straight
across the fuselage that the seatback rests against. I was told that there
is a modification to move the seatback aft. Is this something that can be
done easily to a completed plane? Are there drawings for this available?
I have seen the folding rudder pedals on another W-8. Are there drawings of
this mod available somewhere?
Last, but certainly not least. How challenging is the Tailwind to takeoff
and land? I am a 200 hour pilot with over 100 hours of tailwheel time. But
all of my tailwheel time is in very slow airplanes (Champ, Cub, etc).
The weather prevented me from taking a ride in the plane when I went to look
at it. I hope next weekend is better, it looks like a fun airplane
Dean Dayton
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
George ARE you Nuts Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: George Turner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8 questions
Dean: I have owned two Tailwinds with the 0-235. I think it will meet your
requirements except you might have to get a shorter girl friend. George....Phoenix
Dean Dayton <deandayton@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dean Dayton"
Hi,
I have an opportunity to buy a very nice W-8 Tailwind with an 0-235. I'm
hoping that I can get the answers to a few questions.
What is the design max weight of the W-8? The plane I am looking at is 890lb
empty. Is it practical to put 2 people (400 lb) and a few pounds of luggage
and 2 or more hours of fuel in a W-8?
Are there relatively simple modifications that can increase the leg room for
the passenger. My girfriend is 6ft tall and all leg (37 inch inseam). The
plane I am considering is an early Tailwind with a tube running straight
across the fuselage that the seatback rests against. I was told that there
is a modification to move the seatback aft. Is this something that can be
done easily to a completed plane? Are there drawings fo r this List
Message 8
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Buyer beware!!!
Innodyn Turbine formally ATP Turbine, I'm sure they will be selling units when
Dyna-Cam Engine starts selling and when pigs fly.
Below emails from August 2004.
> Scott Baker at Velocity sent this to the Velocity Reflector email
> list. Innodyn is the same company as ATP. There were follow ups from
> people who'd placed deposits that said the same thing.
>
> Caveat Emptor.
> To anyone who is remotely interested in purchasing an engine from ATP -
> Affordable Turbine Power - LISTEN UP!
> What follows may save you $10,000 (or more)!
> ATP is selling "snake oil" as far as my opinion goes.
> Several Velocity customers have placed orders and deposits for ATP engines -
> and have been the victims of broken promises and outright fraud.
> One Velocity customer placed a $12,000 deposit with ATP towards a +300hp
> version of their experimental turbine - waited to the promised delivery
> date - called for the delivery - and was told by the "good" folks at ATP
> that:
> a. They discontinued development of the 300 hp version of the engine
> b. They had no immediate plans to renew development of the 300 hp engine
> c. Despite the written order form that guaranteed all deposits would be
> escrowed - ATP nevertheless spent his deposit, and
> d. They have no plans to refund his deposit.
> To add insult to injury, this Velocity builder had purchased a constant
> speed propeller that works (for all intent and purposes) on a turbine
> engine - so he is also "out" the money he invested in the propeller.
> This is not an isolated case. Another Velocity customer that I spoke with
> ALSO lost a substantial amount of money due to the fact that ATP could not
> provide an engine and would not return his deposit.
>
> In the last edition of AOPA's ePilot, it had an announcement piece promoting
> ATP. I wrote to the editor of ePilot and told him about the fraud this
> company has committed and gave him the names of two Velocity customers who
> were cheated by ATP. The editor followed through - and attempted to reach
> ATP for comment. They (ATP) refuse to talk with him. The customers did
> talk with AOPA and told them what happened.
>
> One year ago ATP had a booth at Sun n Fun showing their ATP powered RV.
> Between SnF and Oshkosh the aircraft added (what is reported to be) less
> than 10-hours of flight time. Think about that. 10-hours of flight time in
> 4-months. If I were selling a new engine - turbine or otherwise - I would
> hardly boast about 10-hours of operation in 4-months. Something was (and
> is) obviously amiss.
>
> Incredibly, I am contacted by Velocity customers who have talked with ATP
> ... and ATP believe it or not, is giving Velocity as a reference! What
> balls!
>
> After SnF 2003, ATP went "underground" at last years Oshkosh and this years
> SnF. They did not have a booth, but they did promote their "fantastic,
> everybody needs to have one turbine engine" at an obscure Cub display. ATP,
> you will find, is not in the show program.
>
> These people have the lowest business ethics. If you are fool enough to
> give them your money, they are happy to take it.
>
> And that's all I have to say about that.
>
> Scott B.
>
I think I identified this outfit as BS a couple of years ago at OSH based
on the extraordinary claims of high BSFC. Every pilot needs to learn
and totally understand BSFC :) I'll search for messages.
Experimental aviation is the happy hunting ground for scam artist
because of the typical builders emotional involvement. We WANT.....
neigh NEED to believe in the 100 mpg carburetor.
Paul Lamar
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Conner
To: Tailwindforum@yahoogroups.com ; tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:39 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: turbines
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bob Conner"
I don't know who all gets Avweb, but they had an interesting article this morning on turbines. Check out this link http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/index_aviation.html Fred could put one these on his plane and with his oxygen go to FL20..................Bob 149
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "DaveM" <dmagaw@att.net>
With the loading you suggest, you are going to be pretty heavy and will need
quite a bit of runway in hotter weather and higher density altitudes. Not
to much of a problem in cold weather. The cure is to get a 150 HP tailwind.
(and my W-8 is for sale). Most tailwinds will accomodate 6' people with no
problem, but the cockpit is not spacious. Pretty hard to modify an existing
cockpit. The fold down rudder pedals on the passenger side are straight
from the Tailwind plans.
I would suggest some time in a tailwind, RV or Thorp taildragger. The
faster speeds and quick controls require a bit of practice before just
jumping in and flying one. At least fly a luscome or similar plane that has
quick controls. Not that other people haven't successfully transitioned
without such time, but you are just taking your chances IMHO.
Dave
> Hi,
>
> I have an opportunity to buy a very nice W-8 Tailwind with an 0-235. I'm
> hoping that I can get the answers to a few questions.
>
> What is the design max weight of the W-8? The plane I am looking at is
> 890lb empty. Is it practical to put 2 people (400 lb) and a few pounds of
> luggage and 2 or more hours of fuel in a W-8?
>
> Are there relatively simple modifications that can increase the leg room
> for the passenger. My girfriend is 6ft tall and all leg (37 inch inseam).
> The plane I am considering is an early Tailwind with a tube running
> straight across the fuselage that the seatback rests against. I was told
> that there is a modification to move the seatback aft. Is this something
> that can be done easily to a completed plane? Are there drawings for this
> available?
>
> I have seen the folding rudder pedals on another W-8. Are there drawings
> of this mod available somewhere?
>
> Last, but certainly not least. How challenging is the Tailwind to takeoff
> and land? I am a 200 hour pilot with over 100 hours of tailwheel time. But
> all of my tailwheel time is in very slow airplanes (Champ, Cub, etc).
>
> The weather prevented me from taking a ride in the plane when I went to
> look at it. I hope next weekend is better, it looks like a fun airplane
>
> Dean Dayton
>
>
>
Message 10
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|
Sadly, Luc is right. A lot of people lost thousands of dollars with their deposits
on engines from Affordable Turbine Power( the same people that changed their
name to Innodyn). They are a bogus ripoff company full of Flim Flam BS. How
they managed to pull the wool over the eyes of the editors at AvWeb blows me
away.
I've submitted a few details that Luc sent to us back to AvWeb so they may look
into the BS a little more deeply. Perhaps a retraction would be in order after
that.
Hope you all are having a fine Holiday season,
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Conner
To: Tailwindforum@yahoogroups.com ; tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:39 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: turbines
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bob Conner"
I don't know who all gets Avweb, but they had an interesting article this morning on turbines. Check out this link http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/index_aviation.html Fred could put one these on his plane and with his oxygen go to FL20..................Bob 149
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dean Dayton" <deandayton@hotmail.com>
OK, I'll bite;-) Can you give me some info on the Tailwind you are trying to
sell?
Dean
>From: "DaveM" <dmagaw@att.net>
>Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8 questions
>Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:55:43 -0800
>
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "DaveM" <dmagaw@att.net>
>
>With the loading you suggest, you are going to be pretty heavy and will
>need quite a bit of runway in hotter weather and higher density altitudes.
>Not to much of a problem in cold weather. The cure is to get a 150 HP
>tailwind. (and my W-8 is for sale). Most tailwinds will accomodate 6'
>people with no problem, but the cockpit is not spacious. Pretty hard to
>modify an existing cockpit. The fold down rudder pedals on the passenger
>side are straight from the Tailwind plans.
>
>I would suggest some time in a tailwind, RV or Thorp taildragger. The
>faster speeds and quick controls require a bit of practice before just
>jumping in and flying one. At least fly a luscome or similar plane that
>has quick controls. Not that other people haven't successfully
>transitioned without such time, but you are just taking your chances IMHO.
>Dave
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have an opportunity to buy a very nice W-8 Tailwind with an 0-235. I'm
>>hoping that I can get the answers to a few questions.
>>
>>What is the design max weight of the W-8? The plane I am looking at is
>>890lb empty. Is it practical to put 2 people (400 lb) and a few pounds of
>>luggage and 2 or more hours of fuel in a W-8?
>>
>>Are there relatively simple modifications that can increase the leg room
>>for the passenger. My girfriend is 6ft tall and all leg (37 inch inseam).
>>The plane I am considering is an early Tailwind with a tube running
>>straight across the fuselage that the seatback rests against. I was told
>>that there is a modification to move the seatback aft. Is this something
>>that can be done easily to a completed plane? Are there drawings for this
>>available?
>>
>>I have seen the folding rudder pedals on another W-8. Are there drawings
>>of this mod available somewhere?
>>
>>Last, but certainly not least. How challenging is the Tailwind to takeoff
>>and land? I am a 200 hour pilot with over 100 hours of tailwheel time. But
>>all of my tailwheel time is in very slow airplanes (Champ, Cub, etc).
>>
>>The weather prevented me from taking a ride in the plane when I went to
>>look at it. I hope next weekend is better, it looks like a fun airplane
>>
>>Dean Dayton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
Hmm... If the choice is the girlfriend or THIS airplane, I think I'll keep the
girfriend. If the choice is the girlfriend or ANY airplane ... ;-)
Dean
Dean: I have owned two Tailwinds with the 0-235. I think it will meet your
requirements except you might have to get a shorter girl friend. George....Phoenix
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
If I had a long legged six foot tall girl friend, I'd find an airplane
to fit. Jerry
On Monday, December 6, 2004, at 06:04 PM, Dean Dayton wrote:
> Hmm... If the choice is the girlfriend or THIS airplane, I think I'll
> keep the girfriend. If the choice is the girlfriend or ANY airplane
> ... ;-)
>
> Dean
>
> Dean:=A0=A0 I have owned two Tailwinds with the 0-235.=A0 I think it will
> meet your requirements except you might have to get a shorter girl
> friend.=A0=A0=A0=A0 George....Phoenix
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
Like the guy with the plastic wrap shorts
Red
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Danner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8 questions
George ARE you Nuts Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: George Turner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: W-8 questions
Dean: I have owned two Tailwinds with the 0-235. I think it will meet your
requirements except you might have to get a shorter girl friend. George....Phoenix
Dean Dayton <deandayton@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Dean Dayton"
Hi,
I have an opportunity to buy a very nice W-8 Tailwind with an 0-235. I'm
hoping that I can get the answers to a few questions.
What is the design max weight of the W-8? The plane I am looking at is 890lb
empty. Is it practical to put 2 people (400 lb) and a few pounds of luggage
and 2 or more hours of fuel in a W-8?
Are there relatively simple modifications that can increase the leg room
for
the passenger. My girfriend is 6ft tall and all leg (37 inch inseam). The
plane I am considering is an early Tailwind with a tube running straight
across the fuselage that the seatback rests against. I was told that there
is a modification to move the seatback aft. Is this something that can be
done easily to a completed plane? Are there drawings fo r this List
Message 15
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|
What's the fuel burn on them? Most turbines really burn the fuel. Would
be nice though to have a smooth quiet engine up front. Dave Conrad
On Monday, December 6, 2004, at 09:49 AM, Luc H. wrote:
> Buyer beware!!!
>
> Innodyn Turbine formally ATP Turbine, I'm sure they will be=A0selling
> units when Dyna-Cam Engine starts selling and when pigs fly.
>
>
> Below=A0emails from August 2004.
>
> >=A0Scott Baker at Velocity sent this to the Velocity Reflector email
> > list.=A0 Innodyn is the same company as ATP.=A0 There were follow ups
> from
> > people who'd placed deposits that said the same thing.
> >
> > Caveat Emptor.
>
> > To anyone who is remotely interested in purchasing an engine from
> ATP -
> > Affordable Turbine Power - LISTEN UP!
> > What follows may save you $10,000 (or more)!
> > ATP is selling "snake oil" as far as my opinion goes.
> > Several Velocity customers have placed orders and deposits for ATP
> engines -
> > and have been the victims of broken promises and outright fraud.
> > One Velocity customer placed a $12,000 deposit with ATP towards a
> +300hp
> > version of their experimental turbine - waited to the promised
> delivery
> > date - called for the delivery - and was told by the "good" folks at
> ATP
> > that:
> > a.=A0=A0=A0 They discontinued development of the 300 hp version of the
> engine
> > b.=A0=A0=A0 They had no immediate plans to renew development of the 300 hp
> engine
> > c.=A0=A0=A0 Despite the written order form that guaranteed all deposits
> would be
> > escrowed - ATP nevertheless spent his deposit, and
> > d.=A0=A0=A0 They have no plans to refund his deposit.
> > To add insult to injury, this Velocity builder had purchased a
> constant
> > speed propeller that works (for all intent and purposes) on a turbine
> > engine - so he is also "out" the money he invested in the propeller.
> > This is not an isolated case.=A0 Another Velocity customer that I
> spoke with
> > ALSO lost a substantial amount of money due to the fact that ATP
> could not
> > provide an engine and would not return his deposit.
> >
> > In the last edition of AOPA's ePilot, it had an announcement piece
> promoting
> > ATP.=A0 I wrote to the editor of ePilot and told him about the fraud
> this
> > company has committed and gave him the names of two Velocity
> customers who
> > were cheated by ATP.=A0 The editor followed through - and attempted to
> reach
> > ATP for comment.=A0 They (ATP) refuse to talk with him.=A0 The customers
> did
> > talk with AOPA and told them what happened.
> >
> > One year ago ATP had a booth at Sun n Fun showing their ATP powered
> RV.
> > Between SnF and Oshkosh the aircraft added (what is reported to be)
> less
> > than 10-hours of flight time.=A0 Think about that.=A0 10-hours of flight
> time in
> > 4-months.=A0 If I were selling a new engine - turbine or otherwise - I
> would
> > hardly boast about 10-hours of operation in 4-months.=A0 Something was
> (and
> > is) obviously amiss.
> >
> > Incredibly, I am contacted by Velocity customers who have talked
> with ATP
> > ... and ATP believe it or not, is giving Velocity as a reference!=A0
> What
> > balls!
> >
> > After SnF 2003, ATP went "underground" at last years Oshkosh and
> this years
> > SnF.=A0 They did not have a booth, but they did promote their
> "fantastic,
> > everybody needs to have one turbine engine" at an obscure Cub
> display.=A0 ATP,
> > you will find, is not in the show program.
> >
> > These people have the lowest business ethics.=A0 If you are fool
> enough to
> > give them your money, they are happy to take it.
> >
> > And that's all I have to say about that.
> >
> > Scott B.
> >
>
> I think I identified this outfit as BS a couple of years ago at OSH
> based
> on the extraordinary claims of high BSFC. Every pilot needs to learn
> and totally understand BSFC :) I'll search for messages.
>
> Experimental aviation is the happy hunting ground for scam artist
> because of the typical builders emotional involvement. We WANT.....
> neigh NEED to believe in the 100 mpg carburetor.
>
> Paul Lamar
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Conner
> To: Tailwindforum@yahoogroups.com ; tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:39 AM
> Subject: Tailwind-List: turbines
>
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bob Conner"
> I don't know who all gets Avweb, but they had an interesting article
> this morning on turbines. Check out this link
> http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/index_aviation.html=A0 Fred could put
> one these on his plane and with his oxygen go to
> FL20..................Bob 149
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: W-8 questions |
dito.
On Monday, December 6, 2004, at 05:27 PM, Jerry Hey wrote:
> If I had a long legged six foot tall girl friend, I'd find an
> airplane to fit. Jerry
>
> On Monday, December 6, 2004, at 06:04 PM, Dean Dayton wrote:
>
>> Hmm... If the choice is the girlfriend or THIS airplane, I think I'll
>> keep the girfriend. If the choice is the girlfriend or ANY airplane
>> ... ;-)
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> Dean:=A0=A0 I have owned two Tailwinds with the 0-235.=A0 I think it will
>> meet your requirements except you might have to get a shorter girl
>> friend.=A0=A0=A0=A0 George....Phoenix
>>
Message 17
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| Subject: | j-winddesigns.com |
We have uploaded a new page for products and services. Not perfect
but a good start. Click to page 2 and select: Products and Services
Jerry
Building and Flying Steve Wittman's Tailwind
www.j-winddesigns.com
Message 18
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They make all sorts of claims.......non of which can be disproven as they haven't
shipped an engine yet. Pie in the sky comes to mind.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Conrad
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: turbines
What's the fuel burn on them? Most turbines really burn the fuel. Would be nice
though to have a smooth quiet engine up front. Dave Conrad
On Monday, December 6, 2004, at 09:49 AM, Luc H. wrote:
Buyer beware!!!
Innodyn Turbine formally ATP Turbine, I'm sure they will be selling units when
Dyna-Cam Engine starts selling and when pigs fly.
Below emails from August 2004.
> Scott Baker at Velocity sent this to the Velocity Reflector email
> list. Innodyn is the same company as ATP. There were follow ups from
> people who'd placed deposits that said the same thing.
>
> Caveat Emptor.
> To anyone who is remotely interested in purchasing an engine from ATP -
> Affordable Turbine Power - LISTEN UP!
> What follows may save you $10,000 (or more)!
> ATP is selling "snake oil" as far as my opinion goes.
> Several Velocity customers have placed orders and deposits for ATP engines
-
> and have been the victims of broken promises and outright fraud.
> One Velocity customer placed a $12,000 deposit with ATP towards a +300hp
> version of their experimental turbine - waited to the promised delivery
> date - called for the delivery - and was told by the "good" folks at ATP
> that:
> a. They discontinued development of the 300 hp version of the engine
> b. They had no immediate plans to renew development of the 300 hp engine
> c. Despite the written order form that guaranteed all deposits would be
> escrowed - ATP nevertheless spent his deposit, and
> d. They have no plans to refund his deposit.
> To add insult to injury, this Velocity builder had purchased a constant
> speed propeller that works (for all intent and purposes) on a turbine
> engine - so he is also "out" the money he invested in the propeller.
> This is not an isolated case. Another Velocity customer that I spoke with
> ALSO lost a substantial amount of money due to the fact that ATP could not
> provide an engine and would not return his deposit.
>
> In the last edition of AOPA's ePilot, it had an announcement piece promoting
> ATP. I wrote to the editor of ePilot and told him about the fraud this
> company has committed and gave him the names of two Velocity customers who
> were cheated by ATP. The editor followed through - and attempted to reach
> ATP for comment. They (ATP) refuse to talk with him. The customers did
> talk with AOPA and told them what happened.
>
> One year ago ATP had a booth at Sun n Fun showing their ATP powered RV.
> Between SnF and Oshkosh the aircraft added (what is reported to be) less
> than 10-hours of flight time. Think about that. 10-hours of flight time
in
> 4-months. If I were selling a new engine - turbine or otherwise - I would
> hardly boast about 10-hours of operation in 4-months. Something was (and
> is) obviously amiss.
>
> Incredibly, I am contacted by Velocity customers who have talked with ATP
> ... and ATP believe it or not, is giving Velocity as a reference! What
> balls!
>
> After SnF 2003, ATP went "underground" at last years Oshkosh and this years
> SnF. They did not have a booth, but they did promote their "fantastic,
> everybody needs to have one turbine engine" at an obscure Cub display. ATP,
> you will find, is not in the show program.
>
> These people have the lowest business ethics. If you are fool enough to
> give them your money, they are happy to take it.
>
> And that's all I have to say about that.
>
> Scott B.
>
I think I identified this outfit as BS a couple of years ago at OSH based
on the extraordinary claims of high BSFC. Every pilot needs to learn
and totally understand BSFC :) I'll search for messages.
Experimental aviation is the happy hunting ground for scam artist
because of the typical builders emotional involvement. We WANT.....
neigh NEED to believe in the 100 mpg carburetor.
Paul Lamar
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Conner
To: Tailwindforum@yahoogroups.com ; tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:39 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: turbines
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bob Conner"
I don't know who all gets Avweb, but they had an interesting article this morning on turbines. Check out this link http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/index_aviation.html Fred could put one these on his plane and with his oxygen go to FL20..................Bob 149
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