Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Bob Triplett)
2. 05:13 AM - Re: (Fred Weaver)
3. 05:14 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (FTLovley@aol.com)
4. 05:55 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Fred Weaver)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Fred Weaver)
6. 06:35 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Mike Mears)
7. 06:48 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
8. 07:23 AM - Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance results (Thomas Barnes)
9. 08:01 AM - Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance r... (IslPilot@aol.com)
10. 08:08 AM - Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance results (DaveM)
11. 10:09 AM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Hjelle)
12. 02:39 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Bob Triplett)
13. 02:44 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Bob Triplett)
14. 03:21 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Joe Maj)
15. 04:06 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Fred Weaver)
16. 05:08 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Kenneth Graves)
17. 05:57 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (George Turner)
18. 08:14 PM - Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance results (Brian Alley)
19. 08:41 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Rcaprd@aol.com)
20. 09:37 PM - Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance results (Larry H.)
21. 09:48 PM - Re: Titanium Landing Gear (Joe Maj)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
There are apparently several alloys that fall into this material type.
I machined some with a high speed tool (end mill). I have cut it with a
horizontal cut off saw, machined it with carbide and drilled it with
high speed drills. It did not cut bad. It was not until I began to
hand ream the material that I could identify a real machining difference
(chucking reamer in a hand drill). I did not think I was going to
complete the ream activity. In the end the part was finished and is
still in the intended application today (supports the tail wheel in a
cessna 195 and approved as owner fabricated part). Your tools must be
very sharp. I would only ream with a new reamer. I would think that
Harmon could machine the material without too much difficulty. I seem
to remember reading an article where John Monnett was using it as a gear
leg in one of his planes????
Rich Ellis wrote:
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
>
>Chuck,
>
>The biggest advantage will likely be the weight
>savings. The biggest con will likely be the damage it
>will do to your bank account!
>
>No experience but would be most interested in the
>weight differences. Rich
>
>--- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
>>
>>Tailwinders,
>>I've got the right wing ready to install the ribs,
>>hidden aileron / flap
>>hinges almost done, and I have the fuselage jig set
>>up out in my shop. I've been
>>researching the possibility of using Titanium
>>landing gear, in leu of the 6150
>>steel called out in the plans (or the 4340 steel
>>used by Harmon Lange). It
>>is stronger, and lighter than steel. I found
>>several sources on the net, that
>>supplies the raw material. I'm looking for a shop
>>that can do the machine
>>work.
>>Question:
>>Has anyone used Titanium Landing Gear ? What
>>dimensions should it be
>>machined to ? How difficult is it to machine ?
>>Other pros & cons ?
>>
>>Chuck Gantzer
>>Wichita KS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Contributions
>>any other
>>Forums.
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
>>http://www.matronics.com/archives
>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>=====
>Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
>Gundersen Lutheran Health System
>Co-Director
>Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
>1900 South Avenue
>La Crosse, WI 54601
>800.362.9567, ext. 52102
>rjrellis@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ilwind-List: |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Malcolm: They look great! I guess I need to go take a couple pictures of my
progress.. While I'm working on a project on mine, I'm also going ahead and
getting the annual inspection out of the way too. I'll be flying again by
February.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List:
> Forgot to attach pictures.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 4:29 PM
> Subject: Tailwind-List:
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Lovelace" <mlovelace@woh.rr.com>
> >
> > Ok all you builders it is time to update the group on your progress.
This
> is
> > a picture of Ron's on the gear. I am waiting on his wings or an engine.
> Mine
> > is on the table, I am working on the tail feathers.
> >
> > Malcolm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: FTLovley@aol.com
The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
Forrest Lovley
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Rich.... taking weight off the airframe isn't cheap. BUT, I think you will
find the cost of the titanium isn't that much more than the steel. Maybe
only twice as much? But a lot of weight comes off. If I were considering
making this change, I would consult first with Harmon Lange, then I would
call John Harmon also. John uses titanium gear legs on the Rocket. He would
know the right details surrounding the changes probably. Lastly, taking
weight off the front of the Tailwind means you can't carry as much in the
baggage area. The Rocket needs to get all the weight possible off the front
of the plane, whereas the Tailwind sorta needs weight up there to allow for
two people and baggage.
Oh.....and the Steel gear works real good....
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Ellis" <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>
>
> Chuck,
>
> The biggest advantage will likely be the weight
> savings. The biggest con will likely be the damage it
> will do to your bank account!
>
> No experience but would be most interested in the
> weight differences. Rich
>
> --- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
> >
> > Tailwinders,
> > I've got the right wing ready to install the ribs,
> > hidden aileron / flap
> > hinges almost done, and I have the fuselage jig set
> > up out in my shop. I've been
> > researching the possibility of using Titanium
> > landing gear, in leu of the 6150
> > steel called out in the plans (or the 4340 steel
> > used by Harmon Lange). It
> > is stronger, and lighter than steel. I found
> > several sources on the net, that
> > supplies the raw material. I'm looking for a shop
> > that can do the machine
> > work.
> > Question:
> > Has anyone used Titanium Landing Gear ? What
> > dimensions should it be
> > machined to ? How difficult is it to machine ?
> > Other pros & cons ?
> >
> > Chuck Gantzer
> > Wichita KS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Richard L. Ellis, M.D.
> Gundersen Lutheran Health System
> Co-Director
> Norma J. Vinger Center for Breast Care
> 1900 South Avenue
> La Crosse, WI 54601
> 800.362.9567, ext. 52102
> rjrellis@yahoo.com
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
You might be right Forrest... However, the gear on the V-Witt wasn't a
tapered rod like the Tailwind. It was made from flat stock and then formed
to make a spring type gear... I tend to believe the Tapered Rod type gear
made from Titanium would be a little mushy or soft for our application. That
is unless the diameter is enlarged which then defeats the purpose for
changing materials.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: <FTLovley@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: FTLovley@aol.com
>
> The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
> Forrest Lovley
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Mike Mears" <mike.mears@bbc.co.uk>
The Sonex uses Titanium gear legs. They are un-tapered though. I recall reading
in an article about the Sonex, that Un-tapered titanium provides the same sort
of spring characteristic as tapered spring steel ones, though I couldn't vouch
for the truth of that. As a guide price the Sonex ones cost $150 a pair. The
link to the Sonex site.
http://www.sonex-ltd.com/gear_legs.html
Mike Mears ........... Nottingham ............. England.
PS. Would Titainium work for a fuel tank? I saw a couple of as new 6' x 4' sheets
in a salvage yard. They were askin 50 a sheet, (about 22 or 20 gauge). I though
it might be a good material for the tank. Does anybody foresee any problems,
work hardening, crack etc. that would make it unsuitable for this role?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com
Subject: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
Tailwinders,
I've got the right wing ready to install the ribs, hidden aileron / flap hinges
almost done, and I have the fuselage jig set up out in my shop. I've been researching
the possibility of using Titanium landing gear, in leu of the 6150 steel
called out in the plans (or the 4340 steel used by Harmon Lange). It is
stronger, and lighter than steel. I found several sources on the net, that supplies
the raw material. I'm looking for a shop that can do the machine work.
Question: Has anyone used Titanium Landing Gear ? What dimensions should it be
machined to ? How difficult is it to machine ? Other pros & cons ?
Chuck Gantzer.....Wichita KS
Chuck,
The biggest advantage will likely be the weight savings. The biggest con will likely
be the damage it will do to your bank account!
No experience but would be most interested in the weight differences. Rich......
Rich Ellis [rjrellis@yahoo.com]
Rich.... taking weight off the airframe isn't cheap. BUT, I think you will
find the cost of the titanium isn't that much more than the steel. Maybe only twice
as much? But a lot of weight comes off. If I were considering making this
change, I would consult first with Harmon Lange, then I would call John Harmon
also. John uses titanium gear legs on the Rocket. He would know the right details
surrounding the changes probably. Lastly, taking weight off the front
of the Tailwind means you can't carry as much in the baggage area. The Rocket
needs to get all the weight possible off the front of the plane, whereas the Tailwind
sorta needs weight up there to allow for two people and baggage. Oh.....and
the Steel gear works real good.... Weav
There are apparently several alloys that fall into this material type. I machined
some with a high speed tool (end mill). I have cut it with a horizontal cut
off saw, machined it with carbide and drilled it with high speed drills. It
did not cut bad. It was not until I began to hand ream the material that I
could identify a real machining difference (chucking reamer in a hand drill).
I did not think I was going to complete the ream activity. In the end the part
was finished and is still in the intended application today (supports the
tail wheel in a cessna 195 and approved as owner fabricated part). Your tools
must be very sharp. I would only ream with a new reamer. I would think that
Harmon could machine the material without too much difficulty. I seem to remember
reading an article where John Monnett was using it as a gear leg in one
of his planes????
The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
Forrest Lovley
You might be right Forrest... However, the gear on the V-Witt wasn't a tapered
rod like the Tailwind. It was made from flat stock and then formed to make a
spring type gear... I tend to believe the Tapered Rod type gear made from Titanium
would be a little mushy or soft for our application. That is unless the diameter
is enlarged which then defeats the purpose for changing materials. Weav
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the
BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Mike Mears" <mike.mears@bbc.co.uk>
Oops, should have been $350 a pair!
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Mike Mears" <mike.mears@bbc.co.uk>
The Sonex uses Titanium gear legs. They are un-tapered though. I recall reading in an article about the Sonex, that Un-tapered titanium provides the same sort of spring characteristic as tapered spring steel ones, though I couldn't vouch for the truth of that. As a guide price the Sonex ones cost $150 a pair. The link to the Sonex site. http://www.sonex-ltd.com/gear_legs.html
Mike Mears ........... Nottingham ............. England.
PS. Would Titainium work for a fuel tank? I saw a couple of as new 6' x 4' sheets
in a salvage yard. They were askin 50 a sheet, (about 22 or 20 gauge). I though
it might be a good material for the tank. Does anybody foresee any problems,
work hardening, crack etc. that would make it unsuitable for this role?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com
Subject: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
Tailwinders,
I've got the right wing ready to install the ribs, hidden aileron / flap hinges
almost done, and I have the fuselage jig set up out in my shop. I've been researching
the possibility of using Titanium landing gear, in leu of the 6150 steel
called out in the plans (or the 4340 steel used by Harmon Lange). It is
stronger, and lighter than steel. I found several sources on the net, that supplies
the raw material. I'm looking for a shop that can do the machine work.
Question: Has anyone used Titanium Landing Gear ? What dimensions should it be
machined to ? How difficult is it to machine ? Other pros & cons ? Chuck Gantzer.....Wichita
KS
Chuck,
The biggest advantage will likely be the weight savings. The biggest con will likely
be the damage it will do to your bank account!
No experience but would be most interested in the weight differences. Rich......
Rich Ellis [rjrellis@yahoo.com]
Rich.... taking weight off the airframe isn't cheap. BUT, I think you will
find the cost of the titanium isn't that much more than the steel. Maybe only twice
as much? But a lot of weight comes off. If I were considering making this
change, I would consult first with Harmon Lange, then I would call John Harmon
also. John uses titanium gear legs on the Rocket. He would know the right details
surrounding the changes probably. Lastly, taking weight off the front
of the Tailwind means you can't carry as much in the baggage area. The Rocket
needs to get all the weight possible off the front of the plane, whereas the Tailwind
sorta needs weight up there to allow for two people and baggage. Oh.....and
the Steel gear works real good.... Weav
There are apparently several alloys that fall into this material type. I machined
some with a high speed tool (end mill). I have cut it with a horizontal cut
off saw, machined it with carbide and drilled it with high speed drills. It
did not cut bad. It was not until I began to hand ream the material that I
could identify a real machining difference (chucking reamer in a hand drill).
I did not think I was going to complete the ream activity. In the end the part
was finished and is still in the intended application today (supports the
tail wheel in a cessna 195 and approved as owner fabricated part). Your tools
must be very sharp. I would only ream with a new reamer. I would think that
Harmon could machine the material without too much difficulty. I seem to remember
reading an article where John Monnett was using it as a gear leg in one
of his planes????
The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
Forrest Lovley
You might be right Forrest... However, the gear on the V-Witt wasn't a tapered
rod like the Tailwind. It was made from flat stock and then formed to make a
spring type gear... I tend to believe the Tapered Rod type gear made from Titanium
would be a little mushy or soft for our application. That is unless the diameter
is enlarged which then defeats the purpose for changing materials. Weav
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received
it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on
it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails
sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the
BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance |
results
01/10/2005 08:22:46
Hi all,
Just wondering what experiences others have had on their Tailwinds as far
as carb airboxes go. Seems like some literature suggests a circular air
box design gives a smoother, less turbulent airflow to the carb for
increased performance, and Paser's Speed with Economy book states there is
a noticeable little bump in power when he switches to ram, unfiltered air
(even though his carb airbox is a shallow (depth-wise) rectangular design.
Has anyone tried out different designs, and if so, what were your results ?
Any before and after comparisons ?
Thanks,
Thomas
=
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance |
r...
Thomas:
I compared three different boxes and have settled on using the Van's RV as
the most efficent with a filter, compared to a flat homebrew and one that looked
very similar to what you would find on a C-172. About a 1/2"-1" difference
in manifold pressure. Running without the filter gave me just under an 1" of
additional manifold pressure.
Paul
CVX
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance |
results
The Van's RV air boxes work great if you can fit them in the cowling. You can
get airbox and a scoop to mold into your cowl from Van's at a reasonable price.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:25 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance
results
Hi all,
Just wondering what experiences others have had on their Tailwinds as far as
carb airboxes go. Seems like some literature suggests a circular air box design
gives a smoother, less turbulent airflow to the carb for increased performance,
and Paser's Speed with Economy book states there is a noticeable little bump
in power when he switches to ram, unfiltered air (even though his carb airbox
is a shallow (depth-wise) rectangular design. Has anyone tried out different
designs, and if so, what were your results ? Any before and after comparisons
?
Thanks,
Thomas
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
My dad built a titanium gear for Wittman 35 years ago, probably to the
old dimension. At least I remember the taper etc. looked stock. The
gear never made to a fast taxi, as the shimmy was so wild. That gear is
in Blakely museum at Galloway House and Village in Fond du Lac, WI.
Perhaps a straight gear leg like Sonex would save a ton, at expense of
aerodynamics, and still provide proper ground handling
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Bob Triplett <tailwind@chibardun.net>
I do not know what a set of tailwind gear legs weigh, but I looked up
the weight per cubic foot for steel which is 490 lbs., for titanium it
is 280. The titanium gear should weigh about half the weight of a
similiar steel leg assuming that the leg is machined to the same shape.
FTLovley@aol.com wrote:
>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: FTLovley@aol.com
>
>The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
>Forrest Lovley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
Here is a web cite for certified legs made of titanium for cessna
aircraft. Food for thought.
http://www.xpmods.com/
Hjelle wrote:
> My dad built a titanium gear for Wittman 35 years ago, probably to the
> old dimension. At least I remember the taper etc. looked stock. The
> gear never made to a fast taxi, as the shimmy was so wild. That gear
> is in Blakely museum at Galloway House and Village in Fond du Lac,
> WI. Perhaps a straight gear leg like Sonex would save a ton, at
> expense of aerodynamics, and still provide proper ground handling
>
Message 14
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|
d="scan'208"; a="548759787:sNHT15407032"
| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Joe Maj" <jjmaj@chartermi.net>
Titanium has 1/2 the modulus of elasticity of alloy steel (16 vs 29 million
psi), so really you can't directly substitute without a dimensional change
to compensate. Otherwise, the gear legs might be too flexible, as already
noted.
For things that flex and bend and take shock loads, and might have to be
restraightened after an unfortunate landing, I'd choose heat treated steel.
Joe Maj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Triplett" <tailwind@chibardun.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Bob Triplett <tailwind@chibardun.net>
>
> I do not know what a set of tailwind gear legs weigh, but I looked up the
> weight per cubic foot for steel which is 490 lbs., for titanium it is
> 280. The titanium gear should weigh about half the weight of a similiar
> steel leg assuming that the leg is machined to the same shape.
> FTLovley@aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: FTLovley@aol.com
>>
>>The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
>>Forrest Lovley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Thanks Joe.... I knew how they felt but didn't know how to quantify the
reason why....
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Maj" <jjmaj@chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Joe Maj" <jjmaj@chartermi.net>
>
> Titanium has 1/2 the modulus of elasticity of alloy steel (16 vs 29
million
> psi), so really you can't directly substitute without a dimensional change
> to compensate. Otherwise, the gear legs might be too flexible, as already
> noted.
> For things that flex and bend and take shock loads, and might have to be
> restraightened after an unfortunate landing, I'd choose heat treated
steel.
>
> Joe Maj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Triplett" <tailwind@chibardun.net>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 5:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
>
>
> > --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Bob Triplett
<tailwind@chibardun.net>
> >
> > I do not know what a set of tailwind gear legs weigh, but I looked up
the
> > weight per cubic foot for steel which is 490 lbs., for titanium it is
> > 280. The titanium gear should weigh about half the weight of a similiar
> > steel leg assuming that the leg is machined to the same shape.
> > FTLovley@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>--> Tailwind-List message posted by: FTLovley@aol.com
> >>
> >>The landing gear on Steve's V-Witt was/is titanium.
> >>Forrest Lovley
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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;
| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
If my failing memory serves me right Monnett uses a solid bar. No Machining. And
has a bolt on bracket for the wheels. I also seem to recall someone on the list
recalling some experiments with titanium and concluded that it would be two
springy.
Ken
Bob Triplett <tailwind@chibardun.net> wrote:
There are apparently several alloys that fall into this material type. I machined
some with a high speed tool (end mill). I have cut it with a horizontal cut
off saw, machined it with carbide and drilled it with high speed drills. It
did not cut bad. It was not until I began to hand ream the material that I
could identify a real machining difference (chucking reamer in a hand drill).
I did not think I was going to complete the ream activity. In the end the part
was finished and is still in the intended application today (supports the
tail wheel in a cessna 195 and approved as owner fabricated part). Your tools
must be very sharp. I would only ream with a new reamer. I would think that
Harmon could machine the material without too much difficulty. I seem to remember
reading an article where John Monnett was using it as a gear leg in one
of his planes????
Rich Ellis wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rich Ellis <rjrellis@yahoo.com>Chuck,The biggest
advantage will likely be the weightsavings. The biggest con will likely
be the damage itwill do to your bank account! No experience but would be most
interested in theweight differences. Rich--- Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.comTailwinders,I've got the right wing ready to install the ribs,hidden aileron / flap hinges almost done, and I have the fuselage jig setup out in my shop. I've been researching the possibility of using Titaniumlanding gear, in leu of the 6150 steel called out in the plans (or the 4340 steelused by Harmon Lange). It is stronger, and lighter than steel. I foundseveral sources on the net, that supplies the raw material. I'm looking for a shopthat can do the machine work.Question:Has anyone used Titanium Landing Gear ? Whatdimensions should it be machined to ? How difficult is it to machine ? Other pros & cons ?Chuck GantzerWichita KS Contributionsany otherForums.http://www.matronics.com/subscriptionhttp://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htmhttp://www.matronics.com/archiveshttp://www.matronics.com/photosharehttp://www.matronics.com/emaillists
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
My friend has a Sonex. Has titanium. He said it flexes quite a bit and believes
it wouldn't work good on a heavier plane because of that. His weighs 664 lbs
empty with 120 hp Jabiru 6 engine. Might work on a super light tailwind byadjusting
the engine position for weight and balance. George ....Phoenix
Kenneth Graves <kbgraves@yahoo.com> wrote:
If my failing memory serves me right Monnett uses a solid bar. No Machining. And
has a bolt on bracket for the wheels. I also seem to recall someone on the list
recalling some experiments with titanium and concluded that it would be two
springy.
Ken
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Message 18
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;
| Subject: | Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance |
results
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Brian Alley <n320wt@yahoo.com>
Thomas, I've been flying with a modified Van's RV
airbox for almost a year now. I had an enlarged
airscoop to allow the airbox to be installed in it's
normal configuration. This new box works well and fits
inside the W-10 airscoop I make. It actually uses a
larger cone shaped K&N filter in place of the oval
filter Van's installion uses. I have some engine work
to do this weekend installing a carb air temp probe.
I'll take some pictures for you while I have it apart.
=====
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
304-562-6800 home
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Rcaprd@aol.com
Thank you all for your responses. It is what makes this list so valuable.
Rich E. - weight savings is what I'm after. If I can save 10 to 12 lbs.,
then it will be worth it...given the shimmy tendency is eliminated. Even if
it costs me some extra bucks, it pays dividends with every flight.
Bob T. - I was hoping someone had some input on the machining of
Titanium. Do you know what alloy you were working with ? There is quite a few
different alloys. Two of them are 6AL-4V, and 3AI-2.5V. The 6AL-4V is what
Titanium Joe has in 1.375" round solid. He also has it in the diameter for the
tail
wheel. The 3AI-2.5V is what the seamless tubing is. The first number in
these designators, is the percent of Aluminum is in the alloy - the second number
represents the percent of Vandadium - the remainder is Titanium. Another
designator is C.P., which stands for Commercially Pure Titanium (99.9% Titanium).
Forest L. - If Steve Wittman was using Titanium, then there must be
something to be had with it...like his Scimitar Props !!
Fred W. - I would like to talk with Harmon Lange on this subject. Is his
number still 503-397-1478 ? That's what is listed in T.T. Do you have a
Harmon Rocket ? What type gear is on the Rocket ? How can I contact John
Harmon ? As far as removing weight up front on the Tailwind, well, I have added
2"
at station 0, in my fuselage jig. However, this brings up another ripple
effect. Most are in agreement that the W10 axles should be 8" to 8 1/2" behind
the firewall. The thing is, the axles should be placed in relation to the
leading edge of the wing. The plans view, show the axles parallel with the
leading edge. Therefore, should I keep this location, by sweeping the axle
alignment back the additional 2" that I added at the firewall ? As far as the
springiness, hickory, wraped in Kevlar / epoxy, could be used to fair in the round
legs, and also serve to damp out the harmonics.
Mike M. - Tapered gear legs would be preferred for aerodynamic reasons,
as well as a way to set the placement of the flex, and the spring rate.
Hjelle - Could that shimmy have been caused by an out of balance wheel /
tire ? It seems this is the primary cause of gear shimmy on the Tailwind
taper leg gear. Is there any way you, or anyone else, could come up with the
precise dimensions of that gear ?
Bob T. - The weight comparison is one of the things I was looking for.
Joe Maj. - The modulus of elasticity is one of the characteristics that I
could not find anywhere. Where did you get these figures ? This is the
reason the dimensions could not be the same as for the 6150 or 4340 steel gear.
What is the difference between the modulus of elasticity of 6150 and 4340 ? I
believe the meaning of which is the point where a material can be bent, and
will return to it's original form. If steel is bent, and never exceeds it's
modulus of elasticity, it will not fatigue. Aluminum, however, will fatigue in
short order, even when it doesn't exceed it's modulus of elasticity. How does
Titanium, in its various alloys, perform in this manner ?
Chuck G.
In the Research Mode !!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance |
results
Hi Thomas,
Years ago I owned a 1961 All Metal B Model Mooney (M20B) It had a carbureted 180
hp Lycoming. It had a lever that could be pulled to give fresh direct air (by
passed filter) to the carburetor. It would gain exactly 1inch of manifold pressure
at altitude by using the bypass. I liked it very much. I have a 1963 180
HP Mooney M20C now and it does not have the bypass lever. Not sure why, never
thought to ask anyone but it would be nice. I think rigging ones plane to include
a bypass might be beneficial.
Larry H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Barnes
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Carb air boxe designs with/without filters / performance
results
Hi all,
Just wondering what experiences others have had on their Tailwinds as far as
carb airboxes go. Seems like some literature suggests a circular air box design
gives a smoother, less turbulent airflow to the carb for increased performance,
and Paser's Speed with Economy book states there is a noticeable little bump
in power when he switches to ram, unfiltered air (even though his carb airbox
is a shallow (depth-wise) rectangular design. Has anyone tried out different
designs, and if so, what were your results ? Any before and after comparisons
?
Thanks,
Thomas
Message 21
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d="scan'208"; a="539923519:sNHT15309664"
| Subject: | Re: Titanium Landing Gear |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Joe Maj" <jjmaj@chartermi.net>
Modulus of Elasticity is the stiffness. Most alloy steels have about the
same modulus - 30,000,000 psi. The yield strength is the point at which a
material stretches considerably with little increase in load (the
deformation becomes permanent i.e. "it's bent"). 6150 and 4340 would be heat
treated to about the same strength and so are interchangable. 4340 might
last longer but homebuilts don't make that many landings.
Source: "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by E.F. Bruhn.
This book also has fatigue charts for 4340 and Ti-6Al-4V. They look similar.
BTW, the fatigue properties of aluminum depend strongly on the alloy. 2024
is much more resistant to fatigue than 7075. The incredible longevity of the
B-52 is due to Boeing's use of 2024 throughout the structure, rather than
using 7075.
Also take into account - titanium gear legs mounting in steel tubes -
dissimilar metals = corrosion issues.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Titanium Landing Gear
> Joe Maj. - The modulus of elasticity is one of the characteristics that
> I
> could not find anywhere. Where did you get these figures ? This is the
> reason the dimensions could not be the same as for the 6150 or 4340 steel
> gear.
> What is the difference between the modulus of elasticity of 6150 and 4340
> ? I
> believe the meaning of which is the point where a material can be bent,
> and
> will return to it's original form. If steel is bent, and never exceeds
> it's
> modulus of elasticity, it will not fatigue. Aluminum, however, will
> fatigue in
> short order, even when it doesn't exceed it's modulus of elasticity. How
> does
> Titanium, in its various alloys, perform in this manner ?
>
> Chuck G.
> In the Research Mode !!
>
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