Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts (Louis Owen)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Springs (Eric Schlanser)
3. 06:48 AM - Re: Springs (CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind)
4. 08:46 AM - Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts (Mcculleyja@aol.com)
5. 09:28 AM - Re: Springs (Eric Schlanser)
6. 09:53 AM - Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks (M Willson)
7. 10:14 AM - Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks (DaveM)
8. 12:17 PM - Re: Springs (Fred Weaver)
9. 01:49 PM - Re: Springs (Jerry Mahurin)
10. 01:56 PM - Re: Springs (Fred Weaver)
11. 03:30 PM - Re: Springs (PullSomeGs@aol.com)
12. 04:14 PM - Re: Springs (Luc Hermange)
13. 04:57 PM - Re: Springs (Fred Weaver)
14. 06:34 PM - Re: Springs (Jerry Mahurin)
15. 07:43 PM - Re: Reno flight (Bill Newkirk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Louis Owen" <owenld@earthlink.net>
I had a new Cessna 172 , I think it was a 1977, that had a new H2AD in it.
That was before they came up with oil additive or anything else. The motor
didn't last long. Less than 2 or 3 hundred hours as I recall. Lycoming
swapped it for another one at no charge. This was in cold climate. I had two
friends with them, one in Florida and one in Arizona. They had no trouble
where the weather was warmer. I started using the additive when it became
available but shortly after that someone totaled my airplane. The FAA ran
the engine after the wreck and announced it was OK.
Lou Owen Former N6PJ
PS: I think this engine was suppose to make 160HP. Pistion I guess.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry H." <laheze@ev1.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Larry H." <laheze@ev1.net>
>
> Actually Lycoming insists that you use a special lubricant poured into the
> oil at each oil change for the 0-320 H2AD. I have one of these engines and
> some of the lubricant. I know at least one mechanic who claims these
> engines
> seem to produce more horsepower than other 0-320s.
> Larry H.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark McAtee" <gorgonc3@hotmail.com>
> To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts
>
>
>> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Mark McAtee" <gorgonc3@hotmail.com>
>>
>> I too have an O-320 (early model, no A,B,....designation). According to
> the
>> logs, it has the 1/2" valvles, all AD's current as of 2002. I need to
>> procure an oil sump off of a D or E model since this is going into a
>> tri-gear. Anyone have such a thing sitting around?
>>
>> As far as the O-320 H2AD thing. Lycoming came up with several "fixes"
>> for
>> this engine. One called a "T mod" evidently addresses the main problem
>> of
>> oiling of the cam and valve system. I have around 4000 hours behind this
>> model engine as an instructor and have personally had no problems.
> However,
>> all this time was at 5,000 plus feet altitude where the engines never see
>> more than 75% power in the first place. And, I HAVE seen one of the
> flight
>> schools low time H2AD's scatter its inards due to oiling problems. If
>> you
>> do have a choice, leave this model to the flight schools for their aging
>> 172's.
>>
>>
>> >From: "DaveM" <dmagaw@att.net>
>> >Reply-To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>> >To: <tailwind-list@matronics.com>
>> >Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts
>> >Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 06:26:37 -0800
>> >
>> >I think the answer to your basic question is "yes".
>> >
>> >Here are a couple of links that will help you identify the specifics of
>> >your engine:
>> >
>> >http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/applic.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lycoming/Lyc_Cert_list.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Also, visit the lycoming publications. Not all are on line, but there
>> >is
> a
>> >lot of good information on the use, care and feeding of your engine.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=/support/publications/ind
> ex.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >And see
>> >
>>
>>http://www.flysouth.co.za/sportflying/technical/Lycoming_O-320_%20series.ht
> m
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Have fun with hours of reading.
>> >
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: M Willson
>> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 8:52 PM
>> > Subject: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts
>> >
>> >
>> > I've just agreed to purchase an O-320A2C with no logs. Is this a
>> > good
>> >engine for the TW?
>> > I don't know much about the various model designations.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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CJ - Got mine at the local TruValue hardware store after a lengthy search through
their spring collection I found enough for my project. That was a couple of
years ago. Maybe they have more by now. Do you still need them? Eric Schlanser
- Kalamazoo, MI
CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind <memphistailwind@bellsouth.net> wrote:Guys,
The hardware stores in town are a no go. I've scoured them all. I also tried an
online spring company called McMaster-Carr. They sent me the wrong springs after
a lengthy conversation. If anyone has some extras, or has a local store they
can get them from I would reward them semi-handsomely.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 3
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Yes Eric I do still need them. Bob Danner was kind enough to offer to go to town
and find some for me. If he is unsuccessful, then I would really like your help.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts |
In a message dated 2/25/05 3:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, laheze@ev1.net
writes:
> Actually Lycoming insists that you use a special lubricant poured into the
> oil at each oil change for the 0-320 H2AD. I have one of these engines and
> some of the lubricant. I know at least one mechanic who claims these engines
> seem to produce more horsepower than other 0-320s.
> Larry H.
>
Larry,
The alleged greater horsepower may be due to the higher compression ratio of
the "H" series (about 3 versions) of which the H2AD is one. All in this
series are shown in the LYCOMING Document SSP-393 as having a compression ratio
of
9.0:1, whereas all other O-320 engines have either 7.0:1 or 8.5:1 compression
ratio.
Jim McCulley
180 HP Tailwind
Message 5
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;
I will visit the store tonight or this weekend and let you know what I find...
CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind <memphistailwind@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Yes Eric I do still need them. Bob Danner was kind enough to offer to go to town
and find some for me. If he is unsuccessful, then I would really like your help.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 6
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;
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks |
Thanks for all of the input on the O-320A2C. I went ahead and sent the guy a check
yesterday. This thing is sight unseen with no logs, unknown history, one
cylinder damaged in shipping, but a good price. I plan to do a complete overhaul
on it. Now I just have to figure out how to get it from Houston to St. Louis.
Does anyone know a mover that will crate and ship it? (the seller doesn't
want to mess with crating).
Mcculleyja@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 2/25/05 3:50:56 AM Eastern Standard
Time, laheze@ev1.net writes:
Actually Lycoming insists that you use a special lubricant poured into the
oil at each oil change for the 0-320 H2AD. I have one of these engines and
some of the lubricant. I know at least one mechanic who claims these engines
seem to produce more horsepower than other 0-320s.
Larry H.
Larry,
The alleged greater horsepower may be due to the higher compression ratio of the
"H" series (about 3 versions) of which the H2AD is one. All in this series
are shown in the LYCOMING Document SSP-393 as having a compression ratio of 9.0:1,
whereas all other O-320 engines have either 7.0:1 or 8.5:1 compression ratio.
Jim McCulley
180 HP Tailwind
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks |
Best way is to block and tie down to a small wood pallet, and ship by truck. Not
that expensive or hard to do. Talk to various trucking companies.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: M Willson
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks
Thanks for all of the input on the O-320A2C. I went ahead and sent the guy a
check yesterday. This thing is sight unseen with no logs, unknown history, one
cylinder damaged in shipping, but a good price. I plan to do a complete overhaul
on it. Now I just have to figure out how to get it from Houston to St.
Louis. Does anyone know a mover that will crate and ship it? (the seller doesn't
want to mess with crating).
Mcculleyja@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 2/25/05 3:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, laheze@ev1.net
writes:
Actually Lycoming insists that you use a special lubricant poured into the
oil at each oil change for the 0-320 H2AD. I have one of these engines and
some of the lubricant. I know at least one mechanic who claims these engines
seem to produce more horsepower than other 0-320s.
Larry H.
Larry,
The alleged greater horsepower may be due to the higher compression ratio of
the "H" series (about 3 versions) of which the H2AD is one. All in this series
are shown in the LYCOMING Document SSP-393 as having a compression ratio of
9.0:1, whereas all other O-320 engines have either 7.0:1 or 8.5:1 compression
ratio.
Jim McCulley
180 HP Tailwind
Message 8
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CJ.... I continue to be baffled somewhat why Tailwind builders don't make the
move to a MAC servo (Ray Allen Company now) to eliminate all the trim BS. The
servo only needs a wire going to the elevator to position a tab. This is the
system used on tons of RV's and other machines. I'm currently using it on both
the Rocket and my Rans S7. A simple rocker switch on the panel or the trim buttons
on the top of a stick do the deed. Eliminates all the mechanical stuff used
to spring load the pitch stuff. Saves quite a bit of weight to...
Just had to stir the pot some.....
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Springs
Yes Eric I do still need them. Bob Danner was kind enough to offer to go to town
and find some for me. If he is unsuccessful, then I would really like your
help.
CJ Kirby
memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
N540CJ
Message 9
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Mahurin <jerrymahurin@gmail.com>
Weav, et al,
.......I'll rise to the bait (pot stirring...)....
There is the matter of $$$ in case you haven't priced three MAC
servos and stuff to run 'em. I haven't weighed 'em, but I know
electric motors ain't light and they are stuck way out on the end of
long moment arms which are gonna play with your CG more than the
mechanical ones located in the cabin closer to the CG. I may be a
real old Geezer, but I still rather have the reliability of a
mechanical system....., no switches or dirty contacts, broken shorted
wires , etc.....
I built electric servo's for my KR from remote mirror motors for just
a few bucks. You can see my efforts at http://kr-builder.org . But
in the finaly analysis I prefer mechanical trim over electric.......
My W-10 will have three axis mechanical trim....(with springs)...
I've stirred the pot enough........gonna head for the foxhole now......
Keep on keeping on,
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:05:55 -0800, Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> CJ.... I continue to be baffled somewhat why Tailwind builders don't make
> the move to a MAC servo (Ray Allen Company now) to eliminate all the trim
> BS. The servo only needs a wire going to the elevator to position a tab.
> This is the system used on tons of RV's and other machines. I'm currently
> using it on both the Rocket and my Rans S7. A simple rocker switch on the
> panel or the trim buttons on the top of a stick do the deed. Eliminates all
> the mechanical stuff used to spring load the pitch stuff. Saves quite a bit
> of weight to...
> Just had to stir the pot some.....
> Weav
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 6:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Springs
>
>
> Yes Eric I do still need them. Bob Danner was kind enough to offer to go to
> town and find some for me. If he is unsuccessful, then I would really like
> your help.
> CJ Kirby
> memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
> N540CJ
--
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
Message 10
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Dear Sir.... Only one little servo required, not THREE. Very LOW $$$
Extremely reliable and a fabulous record of service for about 25 years. The
weight is a few ounces... Wake up and smell the roses...
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Mahurin" <jerrymahurin@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Springs
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Mahurin
<jerrymahurin@gmail.com>
>
> Weav, et al,
>
> .......I'll rise to the bait (pot stirring...)....
>
> There is the matter of $$$ in case you haven't priced three MAC
> servos and stuff to run 'em. I haven't weighed 'em, but I know
> electric motors ain't light and they are stuck way out on the end of
> long moment arms which are gonna play with your CG more than the
> mechanical ones located in the cabin closer to the CG. I may be a
> real old Geezer, but I still rather have the reliability of a
> mechanical system....., no switches or dirty contacts, broken shorted
> wires , etc.....
>
> I built electric servo's for my KR from remote mirror motors for just
> a few bucks. You can see my efforts at http://kr-builder.org . But
> in the finaly analysis I prefer mechanical trim over electric.......
> My W-10 will have three axis mechanical trim....(with springs)...
>
> I've stirred the pot enough........gonna head for the foxhole now......
>
> Keep on keeping on,
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:05:55 -0800, Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> >
> > CJ.... I continue to be baffled somewhat why Tailwind builders don't
make
> > the move to a MAC servo (Ray Allen Company now) to eliminate all the
trim
> > BS. The servo only needs a wire going to the elevator to position a tab.
> > This is the system used on tons of RV's and other machines. I'm
currently
> > using it on both the Rocket and my Rans S7. A simple rocker switch on
the
> > panel or the trim buttons on the top of a stick do the deed. Eliminates
all
> > the mechanical stuff used to spring load the pitch stuff. Saves quite a
bit
> > of weight to...
> > Just had to stir the pot some.....
> > Weav
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: CJ Kirby Memphis Tailwind
> > To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 6:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Springs
> >
> >
> > Yes Eric I do still need them. Bob Danner was kind enough to offer to go
to
> > town and find some for me. If he is unsuccessful, then I would really
like
> > your help.
> > CJ Kirby
> > memphistailwind@bellsouth.net
> > N540CJ
>
>
> --
> Jerry L. Mahurin
> Lugoff, SC
>
>
Message 11
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I like the idea and price of the RC Allen servo... Has anyone out there
used this on a Tailwind? If so which servo is needed (push-rod travel), trim tab
size, etc... Will save us some R&D if someone has already done the
homework. I never liked the idea of a spring system either and have heard that
some
work well, while others not so well...
Thanks,
Skip
(N540S)
(N540CJ)
Skip Stewart Airshows
PullSomeGs@aol.com
_www.SkipStewartAirshows.com_ (http://www.skipstewartairshows.com/)
901-355-4100
Message 12
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Fred
What type of trim system would you use, trim tab or springs and where would you
put the servo??
http://www.rayallencompany.com/ Trim systems $235 to $255 (servo, clevis/push rod, pos indicator and switch)
Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
Dear Sir.... Only one little servo required, not THREE. Very LOW $$$
Extremely reliable and a fabulous record of service for about 25 years. The
weight is a few ounces... Wake up and smell the roses...
Weav
Message 13
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I'd use the trim tab driven by the servo.. The springs work but are limited in
authority at both extremes. I use the Ray Allen stuff now in both the Rocket
and the Rans.
BTW, I'm not really knocking the spring loaded system, it just seems like we have
a better solution these days. And it gets rid of the trim knob up there where
it runs into your leg at times.
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Luc Hermange
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Springs
Fred
What type of trim system would you use, trim tab or springs and where would you
put the servo??
http://www.rayallencompany.com/ Trim systems $235 to $255 (servo, clevis/push rod, pos indicator and switch)
Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
Dear Sir.... Only one little servo required, not THREE. Very LOW $$$
Extremely reliable and a fabulous record of service for about 25 years. The
weight is a few ounces... Wake up and smell the roses...
Weav
Message 14
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Mahurin <jerrymahurin@gmail.com>
I saw the three axis trim controls on Croslin's W-10 and they sure
were simple and neat........ When I referred to three servos; I ment
one for each control axis not three for the elevator........
When a person builds his own plane, he should use whatever he wants;
so if you want electric use electric. I just prefer the mechanical.
I agree with Witt when he said 'keep it simple, light and
strong'......or something like that. Can' t remember that long ago
anymore...... Guess I've smelled too many roses or smelled too much
epoxy fumes building those darn plastic airplanes.....
Keep on keeping on,
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:56:57 -0800, Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I'd use the trim tab driven by the servo.. The springs work but are
> limited in authority at both extremes. I use the Ray Allen stuff now in both
> the Rocket and the Rans.
> BTW, I'm not really knocking the spring loaded system, it just seems like we
> have a better solution these days. And it gets rid of the trim knob up
> there where it runs into your leg at times.
> Weav
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Luc Hermange
> To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 4:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Springs
>
>
> Fred
>
> What type of trim system would you use, trim tab or springs and where would
> you put the servo??
>
> http://www.rayallencompany.com/ Trim systems $235 to $255 (servo,
> clevis/push rod, pos indicator and switch)
>
> Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver"
>
> Dear Sir.... Only one little servo required, not THREE. Very LOW $$$
> Extremely reliable and a fabulous record of service for about 25 years. The
> weight is a few ounces... Wake up and smell the roses...
> Weav
>
--
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
Message 15
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<006f01c51b65$d6ae9660$6d01a8c0@DAVEM>
Dave;
Thanks for your help. I made it there okay. Spectacular adventure. I-80 was covered
by clouds, so I went almost direct from Georgetown to Truckee. There was
some BIG country down there.
The guy bought my Rebel. Sad.
Bill Newkirk
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks
Best way is to block and tie down to a small wood pallet, and ship by truck.
Not that expensive or hard to do. Talk to various trucking companies.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: M Willson
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: O-320 Question for the engine experts - Thanks
Thanks for all of the input on the O-320A2C. I went ahead and sent the guy
a check yesterday. This thing is sight unseen with no logs, unknown history,
one cylinder damaged in shipping, but a good price. I plan to do a complete
overhaul on it. Now I just have to figure out how to get it from Houston to St.
Louis. Does anyone know a mover that will crate and ship it? (the seller doesn't
want to mess with crating).
Mcculleyja@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 2/25/05 3:50:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, laheze@ev1.net
writes:
Actually Lycoming insists that you use a special lubricant poured into
the
oil at each oil change for the 0-320 H2AD. I have one of these engines
and
some of the lubricant. I know at least one mechanic who claims these engines
seem to produce more horsepower than other 0-320s.
Larry H.
Larry,
The alleged greater horsepower may be due to the higher compression ratio
of the "H" series (about 3 versions) of which the H2AD is one. All in this series
are shown in the LYCOMING Document SSP-393 as having a compression ratio
of 9.0:1, whereas all other O-320 engines have either 7.0:1 or 8.5:1 compression
ratio.
Jim McCulley
180 HP Tailwind
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