Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:48 AM - Instrument flying (DaveM)
2. 09:34 AM - Re: Instrument flying (Fred Weaver)
3. 09:49 AM - Re: Instrument flying (Dennis Flamini)
4. 10:22 AM - Re: Parts (Dennis Flamini)
5. 11:38 AM - Re: Instrument flying (Bob Conner)
6. 12:21 PM - Re: Instrument flying (Joe Maj)
7. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Parts (Jerry Mahurin)
8. 01:06 PM - Re: Instrument flying (George Turner)
9. 02:56 PM - Re: Instrument flying (Bob Wuilleumier)
10. 03:18 PM - Re: Instrument flying (DaveM)
11. 03:35 PM - Re: Instrument flying (FTLovley@aol.com)
12. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Parts (Aircraft Spruce)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Instrument flying |
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and bank or
turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of my flying,
I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the rest is excess weight.
While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR conditions, on my last
BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head and made me fly N168A (W-10)
by the instruments. N168A only has a turn coordinator gyro, a VSI and the
rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter, ASI and compass. Yes flying by the
instruments can be done, but it takes a lot of concentration. He even covered
the VSI and altimeter, so I was flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit. I
would definitely like to get more practice, and it is actually fun to fly that
way knowing you have a safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about what
it would be like under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle
the radio or anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most of you
know the tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable
IFR platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
Dave.... Just install a Grand Rapids Technology EFIS and watch the AHRS keep you
in good shape on the Glass Screen..... You would love it....
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:46 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and bank or
turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of my flying,
I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the rest is excess
weight. While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR conditions, on my
last BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head and made me fly N168A
(W-10) by the instruments. N168A only has a turn coordinator gyro, a VSI and
the rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter, ASI and compass. Yes flying by
the instruments can be done, but it takes a lot of concentration. He even covered
the VSI and altimeter, so I was flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit.
I would definitely like to get more practice, and it is actually fun to fly that
way knowing you have a safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about
what it would be like under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle
the radio or anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most of
you know the tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable
IFR platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
Dave,
i left Sun and Fun in 2000 with clear skies to The Ga Tn border, gassed up and
climbed between layers and flew over 2 hrs with solid overcast and no horizon
with no problems.
i Always thought my TW was more stable than the newer W-10's with it's big fin,
maybe the Wisc. guys that have flown both can add to the discussion.
My old TW was also the first experimental to make an instrument approach into NY.
One of the prev owners, John Benjamin added all of the IFR
radios and he alternated between an Aerostar and the TW.
There are others on the list that have more info about John and i am sure the new
owner of N4JB (N564DF) would like to hear about your tales.
Dennis in Chicago, reduced to a light sport
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and bank or
turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of my flying,
I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the rest is excess
weight. While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR conditions, on my
last BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head and made me fly N168A
(W-10) by the instruments. N168A only has a turn coordinator gyro, a VSI and
the rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter, ASI and compass. Yes flying by
the instruments can be done, but it takes a lot of concentration. He even covered
the VSI and altimeter, so I was flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit.
I would definitely like to get more practice, and it is actually fun to fly that
way knowing you have a safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about
what it would be like under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle
the radio or anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most of
you know the tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable
IFR platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 4
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i just came across this looking for something else;
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/kitspages/wittail.php
Has Aircraft Spruce always sold the wood and tube materials kits and the main and
tail gears?
Dennis in Chicago
Message 5
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| Subject: | Instrument flying |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: "Bob Conner" <bdconner@hotmail.com>
Dave the guy that taught me to fly had a W-8 with an 0-320 and all the IFR
stuff. He said he flew one approach with it said he'd never do it again. He
was corporate pilot and flew King Airs and all kinds of big twins and stayed
real current, but he always said the same thing you did. It was not a stable
IFR platform. I've flown mine some under the hood and I can do it but it's
not pretty. Or thats what the safety Pilot always
says..........................Bob 149
From: DaveM dmagaw@att.net
Subject: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and
bank or turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of
my flying, I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the
rest is excess weight. While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR
conditions, on my last BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head
and made me fly N168A (W-10) by the instruments. N168A only has a turn
coordinator gyro, a VSI and the rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter,
ASI and compass. Yes flying by the instruments can be done, but it takes a
lot of concentration. He even covered the VSI and altimeter, so I was
flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit. I would definitely like to get
more practice, and it is actually fun to fly that way knowing you have a
safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about what it would be like
under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle the radio or
anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most of you know the
tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable IFR
platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 6
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d="scan'217,208"; a="809474070:sNHT405996950"
| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
My preference is to fly partial panel with a turn and bank rather than with a turn
coordinator. I think the "rate of roll" indication superimposed on the "rate
of turn" makes a TC very difficult to use in anything other than smooth air.
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:46 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and bank or
turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of my flying,
I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the rest is excess
weight. While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR conditions, on my
last BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head and made me fly N168A
(W-10) by the instruments. N168A only has a turn coordinator gyro, a VSI and
the rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter, ASI and compass. Yes flying by
the instruments can be done, but it takes a lot of concentration. He even covered
the VSI and altimeter, so I was flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit.
I would definitely like to get more practice, and it is actually fun to fly that
way knowing you have a safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about
what it would be like under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle
the radio or anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most of
you know the tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable
IFR platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 7
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--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Mahurin <jerrymahurin@gmail.com>
..........ever since they bought the Plans.........
You can get the wood for less at Wicks.........
Keep on keeping on,
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:20:32 -0600, Dennis Flamini <flamini2@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> i just came across this looking for something else;
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/kitspages/wittail.php
>
> Has Aircraft Spruce always sold the wood and tube materials kits and the
> main and tail gears?
>
> Dennis in Chicago
--
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
Message 8
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=YQYThJI/Wl4Ojy2pHVsgSh7dWUbSQNwY3sTF7dPPiiG/yKrPUkFqeRYbsYpGeLCRNwJ/SrS8muK69eogKOoLTMkXYb+O8A7GeMLqgregh+UqELVkB6+dRkDnCq+d3wzxBkhBYPNiBqtPgH0dHAwiy3LLgxEOrzCFoCHEqvKsKsM=
;
| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
Dave: My Tailwind is equiped for IFR but not certified. I have flown in actual
IFR conditions for a limited amount of time in smooth air, about 20 minutes
over Lake Superior en route to N. Mn. in smog like conditions, no visual referances
at all. In smooth air it is no problem other than it isn't fun flying.
In rough air it works too but I can't hold as close to the altitude and heading.
I did a practice Radar Approach flying from Baraboo to Madison Wi. in marginal
weather with a check pilot, absolutly no problem on instruments only, following
Controller directions, heading and altitude changes. I need to practice
turn and bank/ altimeter only.
A 747 would be nicer. I understand a Rockford, Illinois TW pilot has flown
into Chicago many times IFR with approach to his flying job.
I like the attitude indicator, and DG because I can safely get out of an IFR situation
with no problem.
Also, I fly VFR over the top quite often between Phoenix and Baraboo and it is
nice to know if the engine quits, you can descend safely to an appropriate crash
site.
I have 20 some hours of IFR training, Mostly in a 172.
George.....Phoenix
DaveM <dmagaw@att.net> wrote:
I Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions for any duration?
Dave
Message 9
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d="scan'217,208"; a="846377049:sNHT25624860"
| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
Dave;
Bob Wuilleumier with your sister ship Trike 6168V. I have full panel for IFR but
no marker beacon receiver or heated pitot. I agree that TW is not a stable
IFR platform. Just flying VFR and looking at a map or approach plate or what
ever your altitude is off by hundreds of feet before you know it. You would have
to have a capable IFR rated passenger pilot to do a safe job in my opinion.
I view flying the Tailwind VFR like I would flying a Twin Comanche IFR.
Bob W.
---- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and bank or
turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of my flying,
I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the rest is excess
weight. While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR conditions, on my
last BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head and made me fly N168A
(W-10) by the instruments. N168A only has a turn coordinator gyro, a VSI and
the rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter, ASI and compass. Yes flying by
the instruments can be done, but it takes a lot of concentration. He even covered
the VSI and altimeter, so I was flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit.
I would definitely like to get more practice, and it is actually fun to fly that
way knowing you have a safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about
what it would be like under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle
the radio or anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most of
you know the tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable
IFR platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
The day we went out for the BFR, the air was perfectly smooth. That certainly
made it easier!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Maj
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
My preference is to fly partial panel with a turn and bank rather than with a
turn coordinator. I think the "rate of roll" indication superimposed on the "rate
of turn" makes a TC very difficult to use in anything other than smooth air.
----- Original Message -----
From: DaveM
To: Tailwind list
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:46 AM
Subject: Tailwind-List: Instrument flying
I had a little side discussion with Al about whether to put a turn and bank
or turn coordinator in a plane among other things. For almost all of my flying,
I never look at the turn coordinator other than the ball--the rest is excess
weight. While I have assiduously avoided any VFR into IFR conditions, on my
last BFR (two weeks ago), the CFI put a hood on my head and made me fly N168A
(W-10) by the instruments. N168A only has a turn coordinator gyro, a VSI and
the rest is basic instrumentation--altimeter, ASI and compass. Yes flying by
the instruments can be done, but it takes a lot of concentration. He even covered
the VSI and altimeter, so I was flying only by the TC and ASI for a bit.
I would definitely like to get more practice, and it is actually fun to fly
that way knowing you have a safety pilot on board, but I shiver to think about
what it would be like under real conditions. Fortunately I didn't have to handle
the radio or anything else but fly the plane during that time. As most
of you know the tailwind is a quick and sensitive airplane, and not a real stable
IFR platform. Has anyone ever flown a tailwind under real instrument conditions
for any duration?
Dave
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument flying |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: FTLovley@aol.com
Dennis...That first instrument approach into NY by John Benjamin in
N374G,(N4JB, N564DF) had Paul Poberezny as his passenger. John flew him there
to catch
a commercial flight. John used to file actual with the airplane quite
regularly. I never rode an approach with him, but we did fly about 120 miles actual
with the airplane on one occasion. I flew the airplane in some real nasty
stuff one time, but I was being stupid and scud running down under the stuff
with the flaps down and indicating 90. I definitely don't recommend it.
Forrest Lovley
Message 12
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=G3uYBFZf6gEHiwaAuBPdMCbAQpbx3eRiYNGgIBf7scFa2LcMlP2IzeWeUqAl5hoPe4AD5IfXRDmasc2RpKHvnmIqg9cpkXzWbX4iHwRDkAiQp8nbcZtCMxq8nSwRCxF4iHdUFyAlW2x4VQwCQgBY65ac/pUN986Nm1/BsZ6RNKQ=
;
Hi guys,
Renee from Aircraft Spruce. I noticed the comment on pricing and I just wanted
to let all of you know that we will beat all competitors pricing. Also our East
location will be opening there wood shop sometime this month. It will be
great for all you East coast customers.
Best Regards,
Renee
Jerry Mahurin <jerrymahurin@gmail.com> wrote:
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Jerry Mahurin
..........ever since they bought the Plans.........
You can get the wood for less at Wicks.........
Keep on keeping on,
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:20:32 -0600, Dennis Flamini wrote:
>
> i just came across this looking for something else;
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/kitspages/wittail.php
>
> Has Aircraft Spruce always sold the wood and tube materials kits and the
> main and tail gears?
>
> Dennis in Chicago
--
Jerry L. Mahurin
Lugoff, SC
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