Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:11 AM - Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Fred Weaver)
2. 08:54 AM - Fw: Friends (Ted Strange)
3. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Brian Alley)
4. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (IslPilot@aol.com)
5. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Jim Clement)
6. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Lovelace)
7. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Jim Clement)
8. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Earl Luce)
9. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (George Turner)
10. 07:17 PM - Re: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind (Jim Clement)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
I'm not sure what I can add to this info but I certainly can comment on Sterba's
apparent problem with matching blade pitches. Finally, after seeing Paul's post
about trying to dynamic balance the thing only to find out the two blades
didn't seem to have the same pitch, I had to share my experience.
Once upon a time, Jim C built another really nice taildragger with an O-360 on
the front. He attached a new Sterba prop to it and began flying it. As he customarily
does, Jim started tweeking the blade thickness and shape to enhance the
performance of that prop. He got it to work pretty good BUT could never seem
to cure a nagging vibration that was present. LONG story short...... I was able
to purchase the machine from Jim and bring it back to California. Flying out
here in the hot sun and parking at various fly in's, I noticed the Carbon Fiber
that Jim used to stiffen the blades back up after reshaping was beginning
to delaminate and blister in a few locations. Basically, it needed to be stripped
down and re-laminated for strength and then PAINTED. I chose Craig Catto
to do the job as he is a good friend and lives close by too. Before I would let
him attack the prop, I wanted to get the complete pitch info just in case anything
changed. Here is where we found an incredible reason for the nagging vibe....
One blade had ten more inches of pitch than the other side @ 70% span.
It turns out that the hub of the prop was not machined perpindicular to the
center tooling hole. The blades are carved with respect to the hole in the center
of the hub. When the back face of the hub isn't machined properly, you end
up getting one blade riding thru the air with less pitch and of course the other
blade has more pitch! This was not detected during the initial tracking AND
since Jim did an outstanding job tweeking each blade exactly the same, the issue
was never found.
Catto and I found it in about 30 seconds when he mounted it on his fixture to provide
me with the pitch angles. We both looked at the results with huge curiosity.
I instantly knew where the "nagging vibe" had been coming from. Craig ended
up getting all the work done, repainting it when he was done and it has been
an outstanding/smooth prop ever since. SO, what should we all learn from this?
When you buy a prop from ANYONE, check it yourself before blindly mounting
it up to see how well and consistent it was carved.
I can't comment too much on the static I have compared to all the numbers shared
so far, because I don't have the same engine. I can say that I climb 1600 fpm
@ 160 indicated mph and my cruise @ high altitudes is 208 tas burning under
8 gph AND that's carrying a good sized load. (I don't want to hear anything now
about the load size)
The top speed is very close to 250 when flying straight and level at sea level.
Definitely over 240.... Wide open throttle and close to 2900 rpm. All of this
I will re visit soon when I start flying it again. I've been flying my Rans
S7 and the Rocket back and forth to work while I've been doing some stuff on the
Tailwind. I MISS flying the Tailwind for sure.
Hope to see all you guys this summer at Baraboo,
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 68/74 Sterba Propeller for Lycoming Powered Tailwind
2800 rpm full throttle at 2500' seems to work out good, it still does a pretty
good job on takeoff on a hot day. You lose to much for take off if you want
to cruise at a low cruise rpm and still go 185+. At 8000 feet I'm running 204
mph so that's a cruise speed at about 75%. What I have found with a TW, 2300
static is what works best. I use the manifold pressure gauge for cruise, not the
tach. For economy I run 23"mp at all altitudes until it won't pull that anymore.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: IslPilot@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 68/74 Sterba Propeller for Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Jim & Weav & Stanton probably have the most experience with the trade offs.
Ed Sterba told me that in years past, his customers were not concerned with
running way over red line and that now a days he is seeing more requests to bring
the cruise rpm down. He said that he did not think I would see any difference
in top speed, just the rpm that it required to make the same speed.
This most recent prop of his doesnt seem to bare that out, even letting it
wind up over 3000 rpm I am not seeing the speed that I have with the old prop.
About 10 mph less.
I am curious if Brian Alley has a Catto now on his plane and his experience.........Brian???
An article on my experiences would probably be humorous in "what not to do"
Paul
CVX
Message 2
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Subject: Who packed your parachute?
Charles Plumb was a US Navy jet pilot in Vietnam. After 75 combat missions, his
plane was destroyed by a surface-to-air missile. Plumb ejected and parachuted
into enemy hands. He was captured and spent 6 years in a communist Vietnamese
prison. He survived the ordeal and now lectures on lessons learned from that
experience!
One day, when Plumb and his wife were sitting in a restaurant, a man at another
table came up and said, "You're Plumb! You flew jet fighters in Vietnam from
the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk. You were shot down!"
"How in the world did you know that?" asked Plumb.
"I packed your parachute," the man replied. Plumb gasped in surprise and gratitude.
The man pumped his hand and said, "I guess it worked !" Plumb assured him,
"It sure did. If your chute hadn't worked, I wouldn't be here today."
Plumb couldn't sleep that night, thinking about that man. Plumb says, "I kept wondering
what he had looked like in a Navy uniform: a white hat; a bib in the
back; and bell-bottom trousers. I wonder how many times I might have seen him
and not even said 'Good morning, how are you?' or anything because, you see, I
was a fighter pilot and he was just a sailor." Plumb thought of the many hours
the sailor had spent at a long wooden table in the bowels of the ship, carefully
weaving the shrouds and folding the silks of each chute, holding in his hands
each time the fate of someone he didn't know.
Now, Plumb asks his audience, "Who's packing your parachute?" Everyone has someone
who provides what they need to make it through the day. He also points out
that he needed many kinds of parachutes when his plane was shot down over enemy
territory -- he needed his physical parachute, his mental parachute, his emotional
parachute, and his spiritual parachute. He called on all these supports
before reaching safety.
Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important.
We may fail to say hello, please, or thank you, congratulate someone
on something wonderful that has happened to them, give a compliment, or just do
something nice for no reason As you go through this week, this month, this year,
recognize people who pack your parachutes.
I am sending you this as my way of thanking you for your part in packing my parachute.
And I hope you will send it on to those who have helped pack yours!
Sometimes, we wonder why friends keep forwarding jokes to us without writing a
word. Maybe this could explain it: When you are very busy, but still want to keep
in touch, guess what you do -- you forward jokes. And to let you know that
you are still remembered, you are still important, you are still loved, you are
still cared for, guess what you get? A forwarded joke.
So my friend, next time when you get a joke, don't think that you've been sent
just another forwarded joke, but that you've been thought of today and your friend
on the other end of your computer wanted to send you a smile, just helping
you pack your parachute
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
--> Tailwind-List message posted by: Brian Alley <n320wt@yahoo.com>
Not yet but it's comming. I want to up the 0320 to 160
first.
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
101 Caroline Circle
Hurricane, WV 25526
304-562-6800 home
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
pretty interesting Fred! I didnt want to change prop carvers since I would
be starting from scratch again. ........Lot of good that did me!
I would like to try a Catto, but was scared to spend the $1200 if I was wrong
in the pitch guess.
Paul
CVX
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
Don't worry Paul, the prop Fred was referring to wasn't a Sterba. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: IslPilot@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
pretty interesting Fred! I didnt want to change prop carvers since I would be
starting from scratch again. ........Lot of good that did me!
I would like to try a Catto, but was scared to spend the $1200 if I was wrong
in the pitch guess.
Paul
CVX
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
Hey Jim, they are qualify now and racing tonight at Phoenix.
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Clement
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Don't worry Paul, the prop Fred was referring to wasn't a Sterba. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: IslPilot@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
pretty interesting Fred! I didnt want to change prop carvers since I would
be starting from scratch again. ........Lot of good that did me!
I would like to try a Catto, but was scared to spend the $1200 if I was wrong
in the pitch guess.
Paul
CVX
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
Malcolm, If we leave early Saturday morning we could make Saturday night's race.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Lovelace
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Hey Jim, they are qualify now and racing tonight at Phoenix.
Malcolm
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
Hey Fred ,
I can't believe your still flying that Rans-7 !
Earl
Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'm not sure what I can add to this info but I certainly can comment on Sterba's
apparent problem with matching blade pitches. Finally, after seeing Paul's post
about trying to dynamic balance the thing only to find out the two blades
didn't seem to have the same pitch, I had to share my experience.
Once upon a time, Jim C built another really nice taildragger with an O-360 on
the front. He attached a new Sterba prop to it and began flying it. As he customarily
does, Jim started tweeking the blade thickness and shape to enhance the
performance of that prop. He got it to work pretty good BUT could never seem
to cure a nagging vibration that was present. LONG story short...... I was able
to purchase the machine from Jim and bring it back to California. Flying out
here in the hot sun and parking at various fly in's, I noticed the Carbon Fiber
that Jim used to stiffen the blades back up after reshaping was beginning
to delaminate and blister in a few locations. Basically, it needed to be stripped
down and re-laminated for strength and then PAINTED. I chose Craig Catto
to do the job as he is a good friend and lives close by too. Before I would let
him attack the prop, I wanted to get the complete pitch info just in case anything
changed. Here is where we found an incredible
reason
for the nagging vibe.... One blade had ten more inches of pitch than the other
side @ 70% span. It turns out that the hub of the prop was not machined perpindicular
to the center tooling hole. The blades are carved with respect to the
hole in the center of the hub. When the back face of the hub isn't machined
properly, you end up getting one blade riding thru the air with less pitch and
of course the other blade has more pitch! This was not detected during the initial
tracking AND since Jim did an outstanding job tweeking each blade exactly
the same, the issue was never found.
Catto and I found it in about 30 seconds when he mounted it on his fixture to provide
me with the pitch angles. We both looked at the results with huge curiosity.
I instantly knew where the "nagging vibe" had been coming from. Craig ended
up getting all the work done, repainting it when he was done and it has been
an outstanding/smooth prop ever since. SO, what should we all learn from this?
When you buy a prop from ANYONE, check it yourself before blindly mounting
it up to see how well and consistent it was carved.
I can't comment too much on the static I have compared to all the numbers shared
so far, because I don't have the same engine. I can say that I climb 1600 fpm
@ 160 indicated mph and my cruise @ high altitudes is 208 tas burning under
8 gph AND that's carrying a good sized load. (I don't want to hear anything now
about the load size)
The top speed is very close to 250 when flying straight and level at sea level.
Definitely over 240.... Wide open throttle and close to 2900 rpm. All of this
I will re visit soon when I start flying it again. I've been flying my Rans
S7 and the Rocket back and forth to work while I've been doing some stuff on the
Tailwind. I MISS flying the Tailwind for sure.
Hope to see all you guys this summer at Baraboo,
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Clement
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 68/74 Sterba Propeller for Lycoming Powered Tailwind
2800 rpm full throttle at 2500' seems to work out good, it still does a pretty
good job on takeoff on a hot day. You lose to much for take off if you want to
cruise at a low cruise rpm and still go 185+. At 8000 feet I'm running 204 mph
so that's a cruise speed at about 75%. What I have found with a TW, 2300 static
is what works best. I use the manifold pressure gauge for cruise, not the
tach. For economy I run 23"mp at all altitudes until it won't pull that anymore.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: IslPilot@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: 68/74 Sterba Propeller for Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Jim & Weav & Stanton probably have the most experience with the trade offs. Ed
Sterba told me that in years past, his customers were not concerned with running
way over red line and that now a days he is seeing more requests to bring
the cruise rpm down. He said that he did not think I would see any difference
in top speed, just the rpm that it required to make the same speed.
This most recent prop of his doesnt seem to bare that out, even letting it wind
up over 3000 rpm I am not seeing the speed that I have with the old prop. About
10 mph less.
I am curious if Brian Alley has a Catto now on his plane and his experience.........Brian???
An article on my experiences would probably be humorous in "what not to do"
Paul
CVX
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
Jim: Let me know what time you'll be here. I'll pick you up at the Goodyear airport.
George......Phoenix
Jim Clement <jclement000@centurytel.net> wrote:
Malcolm, If we leave early Saturday morning we could make Saturday night's race.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Lovelace
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Hey Jim, they are qualify now and racing tonight at Phoenix.
Malcolm
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind |
If I leave here at 7:00 am I can be at Goodyear at 3:00 central time. Don't know
what time that would be in AZ, you guys are on summer time or something like
that. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: George Turner
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Jim: Let me know what time you'll be here. I'll pick you up at the Goodyear
airport. George......Phoenix
Jim Clement <jclement000@centurytel.net> wrote:
Malcolm, If we leave early Saturday morning we could make Saturday night's
race. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Lovelace
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Sterba Propeller/Lycoming Powered Tailwind
Hey Jim, they are qualify now and racing tonight at Phoenix.
Malcolm
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