Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:54 AM - Re: What's my odds ? (Rick Crosslin)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: What's my odds ? (dmagaw@att.net)
3. 09:31 AM - Re: What's my odds ? (George Turner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What's my odds ? |
Chuck: Your odds are good. In order to be sure you drink that nice cold free beer:
1. Your Lyc will need 160 (as rated by Lycoming) hp, it's likely that your E2D
is 150 hp. Change the pistons and freshen the engine up, it can be pretty tired
even at 500 hrs.
2. You must take care in building your airplane, you can't just slam it together
and expect it to go fast, you'll get your clock cleaned. Wing incidences must
be true ie set properly and straight, ie left and right must match, just to
name one item that you can really screw up royal if not careful.
3. Cowling is critical, pop a check in the mail to Brian Alley and use his fine
cowling.
4. In general, drag must be kept low, if your doors don't fit good, if you don't
put the time into strut to wing fairings or getting a rounded edge on your windshield
strips, you are giving up speed. If you stick the exhaust out the bottom
of the cowl instead of out the cooling air exit, you're giving up speed,
if your horizontal stab doesn't fit the fuselage closely, you're giving up speed,
if your root rib doesn't match the top of the fuselage and you do a poor
job of fairing the fuselage to wing intersection, there go some mph. Drag reduction
applies to almost every single item on the airplane, keep it foremost in
your thoughts while building, you can have a brand new 160 hp lyc and the latest
and greatest prop and still not go fast if your airplane is draggy.
5. Select wheel pants carefully, fair the landing gear, and fair the landing gear/wheel
pant intersection.
6. Selection of a prop is critical, you have a few choices:
a. A Felix prop is often used by Tailwinders, and it can be a good one, but
only after serious work by somebody that knows what they are doing, Felix leaves
his props way too thick, causing lots of drag, do not expect it to perform
well out of the box. Buy one only if you can modify yourself, or have competent
help. The advantage is that there is adequate maple to shape your prop to your
liking if you so desire.
b. Sterba is good, seems to perform reasonably well out of the box, but I know
of at least one incident where he pitched a customer's prop too steeply, causing
the owner much grief in figuring out what was wrong.
c. Catto gets good reports, but I have no personal experience with him as I
do the other two.
6. Discard any notion you may have of paying any attention whatsoever to that pesky
red line on your tachometer. My
Tailwind would do 195 mph at red line with a stock Felix prop (this is not fast
enough to assure victory vs your RV friend), and would not static well enough
to have adequate power on take off in high density altitude max gross conditions.
The problem with props on the Tailwind is finding a fixed pitch prop that
will service the wide speed range. You must be able to perform at 70 mph, and
you must be able to perform at well over 200 mph. If your airplane is slick,
you have good power, at least a solid 160 hp (as rated), and your selection of
prop is good, you will static 2300 rpm or better, and in level flight you may
bump 2900 and do a good 210 mph, maybe more.
If I may leave you with a final bit of advice, drag reduction is almost free while
you are building, it gets somewhat more expensive after you're done. Seek
out advice from accomplished builders of fast Tailwinds such as Jim Clement or
Red Hamilton, just to name a couple. A visit to examine their work would be well
worth your time if you want to go fast.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
To: tailwind-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Tailwind-List: What's my odds ?
I haven't posted anything for quite a while, but here's one for ya -
I'm slowly building a W10, with the Clements mods, and wood wing tips. I have
a Lycoming O 320 E2D sitting out in the garage for it. It has less than 500
hrs, on it's second run. A buddy of mine just bought a really nice flying RV4,
with a Lycoming O 320 E2D. I opened my big mouth and bet him a beer, that
when I get it done, I could pass him up in my Tailwind...providing I build a
clean, light Tailwind.
Question: What are my odds ?
Chuck Gantzer
Pietenpol NX770CG
Wichita, KS
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What's my odds ? |
Rick:
You have really hit the nail on the head--your notes below should be saved by every
tailwinder! The only thing I could think to add is that Red and others who
go fast also pay a lot of attention to the air intakes and the airflow through
the cowling. Lots of tricks--rounded intake edges, smooth transitions inside,
and when going fast, cooling issues becomes critical, balancing cooling over
the cylinders and proper airflow to the oil cooler, etc. I had a chance to
look some a Red's tailwind yesterday and ask a few questions. He really does
spectacular and meticulous work and the results speak for themselves (the Oshkosh
race win at 215 MPH running in a headwinds). Winning that race also takes
considerable pilot and navigator skill too.
Dave M
-------------- Original message from "Rick Crosslin" <rcaviate@alltel.net>: --------------
Chuck: Your odds are good. In order to be sure you drink that nice cold free beer:
1. Your Lyc will need 160 (as rated by Lycoming) hp, it's likely that your E2D
is 150 hp. Change the pistons and freshen the engine up, it can be pretty tired
even at 500 hrs.
2. You must take care in building your airplane, you can't just slam it together
and expect it to go fast, you'll get your clock cleaned. Wing incidences must
be true ie set properly and straight, ie left and right must match, just to
name one item that you can really screw up royal if not careful.
3. Cowling is critical, pop a check in the mail to Brian Alley and use his fine
cowling.
4. In general, drag must be kept low, if your doors don't fit good, if you don't
put the time into strut to wing fairings or getting a rounded edge on your windshield
strips, you are giving up speed. If you stick the exhaust out the bottom
of the cowl instead of out the cooling air exit, you're giving up speed,
if your horizontal stab doesn't fit the fuselage closely, you're giving up speed,
if your root rib doesn't match the top of the fuselage and you do a poor
job of fairing the fuselage to wing intersection, there go some mph. Drag reduction
applies to almost every single item on the airplane, keep it foremost in
your thoughts while building, you can have a brand new 160 hp lyc and the latest
and greatest prop and still not go fast if your airplane is draggy.
5. Select wheel pants carefully, fair the landing gear, and fair the landing gear/wheel
pant intersection.
6. Selection of a prop is critical, you have a few choices:
a. A Felix prop is often used by Tailwinders, and it can be a good one, but
only after serious work by somebody that knows what they are doing, Felix leaves
his props way too thick, causing lots of drag, do not expect it to perform
well out of the box. Buy one only if you can modify yourself, or have competent
help. The advantage is that there is adequate maple to shape your prop to your
liking if you so desire.
b. Sterba is good, seems to perform reasonably well out of the box, but I know
of at least one incident where he pitched a customer's prop too steeply, causing
the owner much grief in figuring out what was wrong.
c. Catto gets good reports, but I have no personal experience with him as I
do the other two.
6. Discard any notion you may have of paying any attention whatsoever to that pesky
red line on your tachometer. My
Tailwind would do 195 mph at red line with a stock Felix prop (this is not fast
enough to assure victory vs your RV friend), and would not static well enough
to have adequate power on take off in high density altitude max gross conditions.
The problem with props on the Tailwind is finding a fixed pitch prop that
will service the wide speed range. You must be able to perform at 70 mph, and
you must be able to perform at well over 200 mph. If your airplane is slick,
you have good power, at least a solid 160 hp (as rated), and your selection of
prop is good, you will static 2300 rpm or better, and in level flight you may
bump 2900 and do a good 210 mph, maybe more.
If I may leave you with a final bit of advice, drag reduction is almost free while
you are building, it gets somewhat more expensive after you're done. Seek
out advice from accomplished builders of fast Tailwinds such as Jim Clement or
Red Hamilton, just to name a couple. A visit to examine their work would be well
worth your time if you want to go fast.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
Subject: Tailwind-List: What's my odds ?
I haven't posted anything for quite a while, but here's one for ya -
I'm slowly building a W10, with the Clements mods, and wood wing tips. I have
a Lycoming O 320 E2D sitting out in the garage for it. It has less than 500 hrs,
on it's second run. A buddy of mine just bought a really nice flying RV4,
with a Lycoming O 320 E2D. I opened my big mouth and bet him a beer, that when
I get it done, I could pass him up in my Tailwind...providing I build a clean,
light Tailwind.
Question: What are my odds ?
Chuck Gantzer
Pietenpol NX770CG
Wichita, KS
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Rick:
You have really hit the nail on the head--your notes below should be saved by every
tailwinder! The only thing I could think to add is that Red and others who
go fast also pay a lot of attention to the air intakes and the airflow through
the cowling. Lots of tricks--rounded intake edges, smooth transitions inside,
and when going fast, cooling issues becomes critical, balancing cooling over
the cylinders and proper airflow to the oil cooler, etc. I had a chance tolook
some a Red's tailwind yesterday and ask a few questions. He really does spectacular
and meticulouswork and the results speak for themselves (the Oshkosh
race win at 215 MPH running in a headwinds). Winning that race also takes considerable
pilot and navigator skill too.
Dave M
-------------- Original message from "Rick Crosslin" rcaviate@alltel.net: --------------
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2722" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
Chuck: Your odds are good. In order to be sure you drink that nice cold free beer:
1. Your Lyc will need 160 (as rated by Lycoming) hp, it's likely that your E2D
is 150 hp. Change the pistons and freshen the engine up, it can be pretty tired
even at 500 hrs.
2. You must take care in building your airplane, you can't just slam it together
and expect it to go fast, you'll get your clock cleaned. Wing incidences must
be true ie set properly and straight, ie left and right must match, just to
name one item that you can really screw up royal if not careful.
3. Cowling is critical, pop a check in the mail to Brian Alley and use his fine
cowling.
4. In general, drag must be kept low, if your doors don't fit good, if you don't
put the time into strut to wing fairings or getting a rounded edge on your windshield
strips, you are giving up speed. If you stick the exhaust out the bottom
of the cowl instead of out the cooling air exit, you're giving up speed,
if your horizontal stab doesn't fit the fuselage closely, you're giving up speed,
if your root rib doesn't match the top of the fuselage and you do a poor job
of fairing the fuselage to wing intersection, there go some mph. Drag reduction
applies to almost every single item on the airplane, keep it foremost in
your thoughts while building, you can have a brand new 160 hp lyc and the latest
and greatest prop and still not go fast if your airplane is draggy.
5. Select wheel pants carefully, fair the landing gear, and fair the landing gear/wheel
pant intersection.
6. Selection of a prop is critical, you have a few choices:
a. A Felix prop is often used by Tailwinders, and it can be a good one, but only
after serious work by somebody that knows what they are doing, Felix leaves
his props way too thick, causing lots of drag, do not expect it to perform well
out of the box. Buy one only if you can modify yourself, or have competent
help. The advantage is that there is adequate maple to shape your prop to your
liking if you so desire.
b. Sterba is good, seems to perform reasonably well out of the box, but I know
of at least one incident where he pitched a customer's prop too steeply, causing
the owner much grief in figuring out what was wrong.
c. Catto gets good reports, but I have no personal experience with him as I do
the other two.
6. Discard any notion you may have of paying any attention whatsoever to that pesky
red line on your tachometer. My
Tailwind would do 195 mph at red line with a stock Felix prop (this is not fast
enough to assure victory vs your RV friend), and would not static well enough
to have adequate power on take off in high density altitude max gross conditions.
The problem with props on the Tailwind is finding a fixed pitch prop that
will service the wide speed range. You must be able to perform at 70 mph, and
you must be able to perform at well over 200 mph. If your airplane is slick,
you have good power, at least a solid 160 hp (as rated), and your selection of
prop is good, you will static 2300 rpm or better, and in level flight you may
bump 2900 and do a good 210 mph, maybe more.
If I may leave you with a final bit of advice, drag reduction is almost free while
you are building, it gets somewhat more expensive after you're done. Seek
out advice from accomplished builders of fast Tailwinds such as Jim Clement or
Red Hamilton, just to name a couple. A visit to examine their work would be well
worth your time if you want to go fast.
Rick
N241SW
----- Original Message -----
From: <A title=Rcaprd@aol.com ">Rcaprd@aol.com
Subject: Tailwind-List: What's my odds ?
I haven't posted anything for quite a while, but here's one for ya -
I'm slowly building a W10, with the Clements mods, and wood wing tips. I have a
Lycoming O 320 E2D sitting out in the garage for it. It has less than 500 hrs,
on it's second run. A buddy of mine just bought a really niceflying RV4, with
a Lycoming O 320 E2D. I opened my big mouth and bet him a beer, that when I
get it done, I could pass him up in my Tailwind...providing I build a clean, light
Tailwind.
Question: What are my odds ?
Chuck Gantzer
Pietenpol NX770CG
Wichita, KS
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What's my odds ? |
Chuck: I have a 150 HP W-10. It is slower than Jim's and almost all other W-10s.
Slow cowling, and prop. We took off on a breakfast run, four airplanes.
I was behind the other three on take off, right behind an RV 150 HP which was
at full throttle. I throttled back to keep behind him. Lugging the engine.
Then I pulled up beside him. Didn't like flying so slow, so I shoved the throttle
forward and left him.
While eating breakfast, the guy that was the passenger in the RV asked me if
I would sell him my Tailwind. He was interested in buying the RV, that is why
he was riding in it. He decided after seeing the difference in performance,
He would rather have a Tailwind.
Your Tailwind will be faster than mine for sure. It should be hard to find an
RV that could keep up with it, from what I have seen.
Look at the race results, Dayton to Oshkosh.
Look at my slow cowling in the attached picture.
George Phoenix
Red's web site:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.reds-headers.com/assets/images/IMG_0765_1_2_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.reds-headers.com/html/red_s_wings.htm&h=282&w=377&sz=34&tbnid=G0CQPYcEtdcJ:&tbnh=89&tbnw=119&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwittman%2Btailwind%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
I haven't posted anything for quite a while, but here's one for ya -
I'm slowly building a W10, with the Clements mods, and wood wing tips. I have
a Lycoming O 320 E2D sitting out in the garage for it. It has less than 500 hrs,
on it's second run. A buddy of mine just bought a really nice flying RV4,
with a Lycoming O 320 E2D. I opened my big mouth and bet him a beer, that when
I get it done, I could pass him up in my Tailwind...providing I build a clean,
light Tailwind.
Question: What are my odds ?
Chuck Gantzer
Pietenpol NX770CG
Wichita, KS
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