---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/22/13: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:15 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (fjmelick@aol.com) 2. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Gerry van Dyk) 3. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Red Hamilton) 4. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Gerry van Dyk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:49 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 From: fjmelick@aol.com Gerry: Thanks for your reply. It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the other available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and still would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for the v ery rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low cost pl anes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much under 2 5k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and remember th e old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb prop an d some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how the stall speed could be reduced. Anyway thanks for the reply. Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks compli cated and expensive too. Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to othe r experimental. I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the Go vernment to start a new recreational license that could allow some of the other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the cur rent LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a Cessna 150 will double overnight too. At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I was l ooking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the pro ject. I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it sure is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs. Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm l&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt &Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind ======================== ======================= EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================= ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (fjmelick@aol.com) 2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (Gerry van Dyk) 3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (George Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________ _______ Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 From: fjmelick@aol.com Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * ======================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt &Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ======================= ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________ _______ Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr. Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this group's members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into a slow car. Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area, the W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have to be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane. You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc. Then again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans. http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily make the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5 653 2 For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear to have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to go. It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much more than the horsepower. I hope this helps your deliberations. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ===================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ===================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 ______________________________ _______ Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US From: George Turner Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even close t o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify. - George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM, Gerry van Dy k wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.- The questi on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a ser ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman desig ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's memb ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into a slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130 sq uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick calcula tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask wit h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design with a l arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood sheeting , (dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done for you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA compliant. - Earl Luce sells the plans. =0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html =0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you coul d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward tub es and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great deal like a =0ATailwind. =0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForu m/co nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who ha ve a sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing a B ut tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within th e regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe horsepow er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry =0A - =0A =0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matr onic s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fjmel ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To: tailwind-list@ma tron ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12 /2 0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp contin enta l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the w-10 win g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M =0A>-----Original Me ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A =0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A =0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject: Tailwind- List D igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's List Diges t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Diges t formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlin ke d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain AS CI I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic t ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http: // www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive Tailwind ===================== = EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======= =============== ----------------------------- ----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messag es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ------------------------------------------------- --------- Today's Message Index:=0A---------------------- _blank">www.aer oe lectric.com=0A" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">w ww.h omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace.c om =0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http:/ /w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com =0 A>hr ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http:// ww w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebuilt he lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www. my pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref ="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums. ma ======== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:44 PM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 Can't say I disagree with any of your comments Fred. As I gather, the drooped leading edge wouldn't be eligible for LSA, but the Buttercup would make the speed requirements anyway. Earl, if you're reading this thread, could you comment? Here in Canada the Advanced Ultralight category is a lot more liberal than LSA in the US. There's no speed limits, and a much more practical weight limit (I think). The Recreational Pilot's permit is similar to the Light Sport, Day VFR only, however there's no weight limit. A Rec pilot in Canada can fly a C172, he just can't carry more than one passenger. Another thing you might have a chance to look forward to is the FAA implementing a class similar to our Owner Maintenance category. This is where older out-of-production airplanes can be maintained by the owner pretty much in the same way as an experimental. It might open up your choices as well, though I gather it's only in the earliest stages of discussion. Best of luck and Merry Christmas. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: December 22, 2013 11:15 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 Gerry: Thanks for your reply. It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the other available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and still would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for the very rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low cost planes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much under 25k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and remember the old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb prop and some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how the stall speed could be reduced. Anyway thanks for the reply. Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks complicated and expensive too. Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to other experimental. I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the Government to start a new recreational license that could allow some of the other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the current LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a Cessna 150 will double overnight too. At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I was looking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the project. I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it sure is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs. Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (fjmelick@aol.com) 2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (Gerry van Dyk) 3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (George Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 From: fjmelick@aol.com Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * ======================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=htm l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt &Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ======================= ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr. Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this group's members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into a slow car. Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area, the W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have to be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane. You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc. Then again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans. http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily make the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5 653 2 For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear to have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to go. It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much more than the horsepower. I hope this helps your deliberations. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html &Chapte r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind> &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt& Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind> &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ===================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ===================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US From: George Turner Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even close t o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify. - George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM, Gerry van Dy k wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.- The questi on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a ser ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman desig ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's memb ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into a slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130 sq uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick calcula tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask wit h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design with a l arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done for you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA compliant. - Earl Luce sells the plans. =0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html =0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you coul d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great deal like a =0ATailwind. =0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/co nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who have a sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing a But tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within the regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe horsepow er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry =0A- =0A =0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronic s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of fjmel ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To: tailwind-list@matron ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/2 0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continenta l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the w-10 win g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M =0A>-----Original Me ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A =0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A =0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List D igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's List Diges t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinke d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCI I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic t ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http:// www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive Tailwind ===================== = EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======= =============== ----------------------------- ----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messag es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ------------------------------------------------- --------- Today's Message Index:=0A---------------------- _blank">www.aeroe lectric.com=0A" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.h omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace .com =0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com =0A>hr ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http: //ww w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebui lthe lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">ww w.my pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref ="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="ht tp ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vi gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forum s.ma ======== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:45 PM PST US From: "Red Hamilton" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 Fred, How about a vintage aircraft like some Luscombe or various Pipers or T-craft or some Ercoupes? You can find them for $15-25K; reasonable enough IMO. Red _____ From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:15 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 Gerry: Thanks for your reply. It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the other available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and still would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for the very rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low cost planes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much under 25k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and remember the old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb prop and some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how the stall speed could be reduced. Anyway thanks for the reply. Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks complicated and expensive too. Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to other experimental. I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the Government to start a new recreational license that could allow some of the other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the current LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a Cessna 150 will double overnight too. At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I was looking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the project. I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it sure is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs. Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 * ======================== Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (fjmelick@aol.com) 2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (Gerry van Dyk) 3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (George Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 From: fjmelick@aol.com Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * ======================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=htm l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt &Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ======================= ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr. Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this group's members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into a slow car. Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area, the W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have to be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane. You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc. Then again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans. http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily make the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5 653 2 For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear to have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to go. It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much more than the horsepower. I hope this helps your deliberations. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html &Chapte r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind> &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt& Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind> &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ===================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ===================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US From: George Turner Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even close t o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify. - George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM, Gerry van Dy k wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.- The questi on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a ser ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman desig ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's memb ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into a slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130 sq uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick calcula tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask wit h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design with a l arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done for you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA compliant. - Earl Luce sells the plans. =0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html =0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you coul d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great deal like a =0ATailwind. =0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/co nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who have a sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing a But tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within the regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe horsepow er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry =0A- =0A =0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronic s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of fjmel ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To: tailwind-list@matron ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/2 0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continenta l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the w-10 win g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M =0A>-----Original Me ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A =0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A =0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List D igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's List Diges t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinke d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCI I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic t ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http:// www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive Tailwind ===================== = EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======= =============== ----------------------------- ----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messag es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ------------------------------------------------- --------- Today's Message Index:=0A---------------------- _blank">www.aeroe lectric.com=0A" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.h omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace.com =0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com =0A>hr ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http://ww w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebuilthe lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.my pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma ======== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:04 PM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 HI again Fred. I got a note from Earl this afternoon, he confirmed the droop leading edge isn't allowed for light sport, but the Buttercup does indeed stall at 44 mph clean. Cheers Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry van Dyk Sent: December 22, 2013 1:27 PM Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 Can't say I disagree with any of your comments Fred. As I gather, the drooped leading edge wouldn't be eligible for LSA, but the Buttercup would make the speed requirements anyway. Earl, if you're reading this thread, could you comment? Here in Canada the Advanced Ultralight category is a lot more liberal than LSA in the US. There's no speed limits, and a much more practical weight limit (I think). The Recreational Pilot's permit is similar to the Light Sport, Day VFR only, however there's no weight limit. A Rec pilot in Canada can fly a C172, he just can't carry more than one passenger. Another thing you might have a chance to look forward to is the FAA implementing a class similar to our Owner Maintenance category. This is where older out-of-production airplanes can be maintained by the owner pretty much in the same way as an experimental. It might open up your choices as well, though I gather it's only in the earliest stages of discussion. Best of luck and Merry Christmas. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: December 22, 2013 11:15 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 Gerry: Thanks for your reply. It just seems the LSA price tags are out of sight compared to all the other available aircraft. I am older and had to sell off my airplanes and still would like to fly again before life is over. All the LSA stuff is for the very rich . I am from a time when the cubs and the vagabond were low cost planes for the grass roots guys but today you can't buy them for much under 25k. I saw a tailwind project for sale at a reasonable price and remember the old w-8 with the 85 hp Continental and thought maybe with a climb prop and some mods it could be made dirty and slower. I just did not know how the stall speed could be reduced. Anyway thanks for the reply. Not sure I like the buttercup's leading edge configuration. It looks complicated and expensive too. Anything that is a project that fits LSA is very expensive compared to other experimental. I heard the EAA and the other alphabet groups are trying to convince the Government to start a new recreational license that could allow some of the other certified aircraft to be used with the new license instead of the current LS pilot license. I am sure if that happens the price of a Cessna 150 will double overnight too. At 72 years old I don't think building from scratch is possible and I was looking for a project experimental to help reduce the time to finish the project. I am just an old has been pilot but still think I can fly again but it sure is hard to find a good inexpensive project that fits all the new regs. Thanks again Gerry fair winds and blue sky's Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 3:12 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/21/13 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-21&Archive=Tailwind ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:00 AM - Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (fjmelick@aol.com) 2. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (Gerry van Dyk) 3. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 (George Turner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:59 AM PST US Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 From: fjmelick@aol.com Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * ======================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=htm l&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt &Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ======================= ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================= ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:59 AM PST US From: "Gerry van Dyk" Subject: RE: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Hi Fred. The question has been asked here many times. Keep in mind the Tailwind is a serious hot rod, even with low power. That's the way Mr. Wittman designed airplanes, and the legacy is celebrated by the this group's members. It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby Cobra into a slow car. Have a look at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight limit. They're typically around 130 square feet of wing area, the W-10 is 100 square feet. My quick calculations show that it would have to be built somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall speed. That's a big ask with the existing airplane. You could re-work the design with a larger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing without plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc. Then again it's already been done for you. Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is already LSA compliant. Earl Luce sells the plans. http://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html The lines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you could easily make the same changes to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has made. His Buttercup looks a great deal like a Tailwind. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/conversations/messages/5 653 2 For the most part, those who have asked your question here before appear to have no interest in doing a Buttercup but it's by far the best way to go. It's highly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top speed within the regs. Speed is determined by the airframe much more than the horsepower. I hope this helps your deliberations. Gerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of fjmelick@aol.com Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continental the same as the original W-8? Is the stall speed of the w-10 wing lower than the w-80 wing? Thanks Fred M -----Original Message----- From: Tailwind-List Digest Server Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 am Subject: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html &Chapte r 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind> &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt& Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind> &View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind ===================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ===================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:44 AM PST US From: George Turner Subject: Re: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13 The stall speed is a little slower with the W 10 wing, but not even close t o the- landing speed needed to qualify.- The Buttercup- can qualify. - George=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:18 PM, Gerry van Dy k wrote:=0A =0AMessage =0AHi =0AFred.- The questi on has been asked here many times.- Keep in mind the =0ATailwind is a ser ious hot rod, even with low power.--That's the way =0AMr. Wittman desig ned airplanes, and the-legacy is-celebrated by the =0Athis group's memb ers.- It's a little like asking if you can make a Shelby =0ACobra into a slow car. =0A- =0AHave a =0Alook at other light sport airplanes that push up to the full 1320 lb weight =0Alimit.- They're typically around 130 sq uare feet of wing area, the W-10 is =0A100 square feet.- My quick calcula tions-show that it would have to be =0Abuilt somewhere around 950 pounds max take weight to make the maximum stall =0Aspeed.- That's a big ask wit h the existing airplane. =0A- =0AYou =0Acould re-work the design with a l arger wing, a different airfoil, lighter wing =0Awithout plywood sheeting, (dual wing struts needed) etc.- Then again it's =0Aalready been done for you.- Wittman's earlier design the Buttercup is =0Aalready LSA compliant. - Earl Luce sells the plans. =0Ahttp://luceair.com/replica_buttercup.html =0A- =0AThe =0Alines aren't quite the same as the Tailwind, but you coul d easily make the same =0Achanges to the lower longerons, top forward tubes and cowl that Jim Clement has =0Amade.- His Buttercup looks a great deal like a =0ATailwind. =0Ahttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TailwindForum/co nversations/messages/56532 =0A- =0AFor =0Athe most part, those who have a sked your question here before appear to have no =0Ainterest in doing a But tercup but it's by far the best way to go.- It's =0Ahighly impractical to make the Tailwind stall slow enough and keep it's top =0Aspeed within the regs.- Speed is determined by the airframe much more than =0Athe horsepow er. =0A- =0AI hope =0Athis helps your deliberations. =0AGerry =0A- =0A =0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: owner-tailwind-list-server@matronic s.com [mailto:owner-tailwind-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of fjmel ick@aol.com=0A>Sent: December 21, 2013 10:01 AM=0A>To: tailwind-list@matron ics.com=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List: Re: Tailwind-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 12/2 0/13=0A>=0A>Can the W-10 fit the LSA category if I use an 85 hp continenta l the same as the original W-8? =0A>=0A>Is the stall speed of the w-10 win g-lower than the w-80 wing? =0A>=0A>Thanks Fred M =0A>-----Original Me ssage-----=0A>From: Tailwind-List Digest Server =0A =0A>To: Tailwind-List Digest List =0A =0A>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 3:10 =0A am=0A>Subject: Tailwind-List D igest: 0 Msgs - 12/20/13=0A>=0A>=0A>* Online Versions of Today's List Diges t Archive Today's complete Tailwind-List Digest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinke d Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCI I version =0Aof the Tailwind-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic t ext editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http:// www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive=Tailwind Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/dig est/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-20&Archive Tailwind ===================== = EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======= =============== ----------------------------- ----------------------------- Tailwind-List Digest Archive --- Total Messag es Posted Fri 12/20/13: 0 ------------------------------------------------- --------- Today's Message Index:=0A---------------------- _blank">www.aeroe lectric.com=0A" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.h omebuilthelp.com=0A="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com=0Aank">www.mrrace .com =0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com =0A>hr ef="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http: //ww w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebui lthe lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahref="http://www.mypilotstore.com">ww w.my pilotstore.com=0Ahref="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com=0Ahref ="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="ht tp ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na vi gator?Tailwind-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forum s.ma ======== _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List tp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.mypilotstore.com href="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Tailwind-List">http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Tailwind-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message tailwind-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Tailwind-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/tailwind-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/tailwind-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.