Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:39 AM - Baffles (Aucountry@aol.com)
2. 01:32 PM - Re: Baffles (bob milligan)
3. 10:20 PM - Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) (Steven Jackson)
4. 10:29 PM - Re: Baffles (Aucountry@aol.com)
5. 10:35 PM - Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) (Aucountry@aol.com)
6. 10:38 PM - Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) (Aucountry@aol.com)
7. 10:45 PM - Re: STC search - Interior Rework (Aucountry@aol.com)
8. 10:46 PM - Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) (Steven Jackson)
9. 10:50 PM - Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) (Aucountry@aol.com)
10. 11:19 PM - Cowling update (Aucountry@aol.com)
11. 11:30 PM - Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) (Steven Jackson)
Message 1
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
> If I end up keeping it what good does replacing the cylinders do since I
> would have to have a overhaul eventually when it reaches 2000 hours?=A0 New
> cylinders would only give me another 500 hours or so. I don't think a buyer would
> appreciate the top overhaul aspect and would be focused on the total time
> since overhaul. Am I missing something here?
>
No, you aren't missing anything. I've never seen, or known of, a set of
cylinders making it to TBO. That's why, when I hear of someone replacing one
cylinder, at say 1000 hrs, and not the rest I wonder what the hell they are
thinking. Odds are so great that another cylinder will need to be replaced over
the next 300 hours and by then, the cost of an overhaul is close to what they
have in partial overhaul by replacing just the cylinders.
Vi was in the same situation. His engine has multiple overhaul times. He
plans to keep his plane so new cylinders makes sense. There is no legal
requirement to overhaul the engine at 2000. Vi can fly out the 1000 hours=20on
his
cylinders and with 2300 or so on his engine (or most of it) and then overhaul
it then.
If I were you, I'd sell it as is. The buyer will think he's getting a deal.
Make it attractive for him. He may want to do a lot to the plane after he
gets it. A basic overhaul is something like $13000. Add something like
$2000 for new cylinders. And, you will need new cylinders. In all
likelyhood, yours are trashed.
I hate to rub salt into your wounds, but if I had done the baffles last year,
I would have noticed all the worn through spots on the metal baffles,
replaced those needing replacement, fixed the spot where the front baffle is wearing
against the muffler, and I would have fixed up all the rest of the baffles.=20
You may have saved a grand by doing them yourself but the condition of the
baffles may have cost you $6000 (minimum) in the long run. I cannot say loudly
enough how important the condition of the baffles is to the longevity of the
engine.
Like I said, I fixed the metal baffles under the engine. The baffle seals
on your engine are adequate. Not great, but not bad.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 2
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: bob milligan <flyer.bob@verizon.net>
on 7/15/03 10:39 AM, Aucountry@aol.com at Aucountry@aol.com wrote:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
>
>> If I end up keeping it what good does replacing the cylinders do since I
>> would have to have a overhaul eventually when it reaches 2000 hours?=A0 New
>> cylinders would only give me another 500 hours or so. I don't think a buyer
>> would
>> appreciate the top overhaul aspect and would be focused on the total time
>> since overhaul. Am I missing something here?
>>
>
> No, you aren't missing anything. I've never seen, or known of, a set of
> cylinders making it to TBO. That's why, when I hear of someone replacing one
> cylinder, at say 1000 hrs, and not the rest I wonder what the hell they are
> thinking. Odds are so great that another cylinder will need to be replaced
> over
> the next 300 hours and by then, the cost of an overhaul is close to what they
> have in partial overhaul by replacing just the cylinders.
>
> Vi was in the same situation. His engine has multiple overhaul times. He
> plans to keep his plane so new cylinders makes sense. There is no legal
> requirement to overhaul the engine at 2000. Vi can fly out the 1000
> hours=20on his
> cylinders and with 2300 or so on his engine (or most of it) and then overhaul
> it then.
>
> If I were you, I'd sell it as is. The buyer will think he's getting a deal.
> Make it attractive for him. He may want to do a lot to the plane after he
> gets it. A basic overhaul is something like $13000. Add something like
> $2000 for new cylinders. And, you will need new cylinders. In all
> likelyhood, yours are trashed.
>
> I hate to rub salt into your wounds, but if I had done the baffles last year,
> I would have noticed all the worn through spots on the metal baffles,
> replaced those needing replacement, fixed the spot where the front baffle is
> wearing
> against the muffler, and I would have fixed up all the rest of the baffles.
> You may have saved a grand by doing them yourself but the condition of the
> baffles may have cost you $6000 (minimum) in the long run. I cannot say
> loudly
> enough how important the condition of the baffles is to the longevity of the
> engine.
>
> Like I said, I fixed the metal baffles under the engine. The baffle seals
> on your engine are adequate. Not great, but not bad.
>
>
> Gary
> www.AuCountry.com
>
> Home of "Team Grumman"
> TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gary,
How far are we from having a plenum to direct all the air down over the
cylinders? Is that something you may develop?
Bob Milligan
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson" <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
This is a copy of my post on the Grumman Gang. If everyone reads both, I'll
refrain from doing this again--its my first day on Team Grumman so I don't
know if there are different audiences.
OK, things are progressing right along, with new studs ordered and inbound
shortly. Now the problem is pulling the jugs to remove and replace the old
studs. The cylinders are attached with the old spline nuts, which, from
what I understand now, haven't been used to secure cylinders in quite some
time. In fact, my A&P and I found Lycoming SB 513(?) dated sometime in '57
regarding exchanging the spline nuts for allen-type hex nuts. Obviously
this hasn't been done yet to my engine. This causes a couple of problems.
(1) The spline nuts can be replaced for $20 a piece for the 1/2" size and
$16.50 for the 3/8" size (OUCH!). (2) In order to make the exchange, the
cylinder (as mine are the original jugs) has to have the fin closest to the
base removed to allow enough clearance for the different nuts. That
involves cutting and then "smoothing" the fin. (3) I looked all day online
for cylinder base wrenches that fit the spline nut, to no avail--probably no
one has needed to buy these wrenches in quite some time. The wrenches I
ordered from Spruce wound up being the allen-type hex nut.
That leads to my questions:
(1) Does anyone know of someone that has the spline nut wrenches for sale
(or better yet, for rent)?
(2) If not, is it possible to replace these nuts with the standard nuts I
see on my A&P's O-360 and in the parts manual for an O-320A or E model?
(3) If I can't find the spline nut wrenches, will there be any harm in
removing the old ones with vice-grips or some other tool (since I'm not
going to be putting them back on)?
Appreciate the help,
Steven Jackson
N1434R
L22
Yucca Valley, CA
Message 4
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 01:34:25 PM, flyer.bob@verizon.net writes:
> Gary,
>
> How far are we from having a plenum to direct all the air down over the
> cylinders?=A0 Is that something you may develop?
>
> Bob Milligan
>
>
It really isn't necessary. The upper cowling can be sealed to the engine
just as well as the plenum. I'm a firm beliver in the KISS principle.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 10:21:00 PM, steven.jackson14@adelphia.net
writes:
>
> This is a copy of my post on the Grumman Gang.=A0 If everyone reads both,=20I'll
> refrain from doing this again--its my first day on Team Grumman so I don't
> know if there are different audiences.
>
Team Grumman is still in the birthing stage so the number getting posts from
Team Grumman is pretty slim. A few days ago, I asked how many were on Team
Grumman and only two responded. I was going to try to have the GG
automatically posted to Team Grumman until Team Grumman was as monitored as=20GG.
Thanks for the post to Team Grumman.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 10:21:00 PM, steven.jackson14@adelphia.net
writes:
> I looked all day online
> for cylinder base wrenches that fit the spline nut, to no avail--probably=20no
> one has needed to buy these wrenches in quite some time.=A0 The wrenches I
> ordered from Spruce wound up being the allen-type hex nut.
>
Call Steve at Lycon in Visalia and ask him. He may know. He's a great guy
to have in your corner when it comes to aircraft engines.
Steve Mahelek
Lycon Engine Rebuilders
(559) 651-1070
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: STC search - Interior Rework |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 09:57:51 PM, 76633.3275@compuserve.com writes:
> I am redoing my Tiger interior.
>
> Has anyone come across an STC or field approval for:
>
> 1)=A0 Cutting out the back of the hatshelf and inserting a wastebasket to
> effectively extend the rear of the hatshelf 20-25".=A0 This mod involves no
> load bearing - it only extends the depth of the hatshelf to allow carrying
> long skis or fishpoles in the cabin.=A0 Such items are balanced and secured
> on the tops of the rear seat horizontally, extending into the lengthened
> hatshelf area, but not touching any of it.=A0 The mod is intended to be
> temporary, with the wastebasket removable, and a sheet of rigid plastic
> serving as an access panel then covering the hole in the back of the
> hatshelf.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Cuddeback
>
Greg,
I saw this, or something like it, on a Tiger in Mammouth. I doubt it was
approved. A friend of mine added a ski tube to his PA-12. I am not sure=20what
he used for the can; I think it was custom made. His was about two feet
long.
>
> <<2)=A0 Center armrests for the front seats attached to either the floor or
> the seat frames.>>
>
Haven't seen this one.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 8
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| Subject: | Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson" <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
I'll give him a call--I'm sure those guys can answer a number of questions
for me...Didn't think of them.
Thanks Gary,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Aucountry@aol.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG)
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 10:21:00 PM, steven.jackson14@adelphia.net
writes:
> I looked all day online
> for cylinder base wrenches that fit the spline nut, to no
avail--probably=20no
> one has needed to buy these wrenches in quite some time.=A0 The wrenches I
> ordered from Spruce wound up being the allen-type hex nut.
>
Call Steve at Lycon in Visalia and ask him. He may know. He's a great
guy
to have in your corner when it comes to aircraft engines.
Steve Mahelek
Lycon Engine Rebuilders
(559) 651-1070
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 10:46:50 PM, steven.jackson14@adelphia.net
writes:
> I'll give him a call--I'm sure those guys can answer a number of questions
> for me...Didn't think of them.
>
> Thanks Gary,
>
> Steve
>
>
You're welcome. If you are old enough to remember what a muscle car is, get
Steve to talk about his circle track days. He's a hot rodder from way back.
He lives and breathes engines.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 10
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--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
You won't find this on the Grumman gang.
As of today, the design of the cowling is final, the baffles are installed
(with their baffle seals), the air inlets are installed, and the ducting for the
air to the cabin heat is done. All that is left to do is finish up the
baffle that blocks off the front of the engine (in the area of the prop) and
install the baffle seals on the cowling.
By Saturday, it should be ready to paint.
After it's painted, we're going flying.
The Tiger I'm using has a JPI 4 cyl CHT/EGT/Fuel Flow. And a digital tach.
After I get a whole lotta data, I'm cutting the bottom off and trying as many
as 4 different designs for the cooling air exit (the whole bottom of the
cowling will be swapped out with different designs. A flying test bed). My goal
is to optimize the cooling without giving up anything to drag.
I'll let you know. You'll only hear it here.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Message 11
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| Subject: | Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson" <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
I grew up in NC, and my great-uncle used to race in the early days of NASCAR
with Richard Petty's and Dale Earnhardt's fathers. I'm sure we'll find some
common ground...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Aucountry@aol.com
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Cylinder Base Studs (carryover from GG)
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/15/03 10:46:50 PM, steven.jackson14@adelphia.net
writes:
> I'll give him a call--I'm sure those guys can answer a number of questions
> for me...Didn't think of them.
>
> Thanks Gary,
>
> Steve
>
>
You're welcome. If you are old enough to remember what a muscle car is,
get
Steve to talk about his circle track days. He's a hot rodder from way
back.
He lives and breathes engines.
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
Home of "Team Grumman"
TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
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