Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: Cylinder Base Stud Update (flyv35b)
2. 06:54 AM - Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs) (Steven Jackson)
3. 09:13 AM - Re: Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs) (bob milligan)
4. 10:25 AM - Re: Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs) (flyv35b)
5. 11:03 AM - Re: Fw: FOR SALE - 1978 GRUMMAN TIGER N28763 (Aucountry@aol.com)
6. 11:13 AM - Re: Cheetah Speeds (Aucountry@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder Base Stud Update |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
Oh yeah, I almost forgot to say
that the base nuts, well half of them we got off without even using the
socket wrench connected to the cylinder base wrench. About 10-15 ft/lbs on
most of them. Only two were even close to what they should have been, and
neither were torque to the proper amount. So, instead of too tight, they
were way too loose, etc. So, I'm getting ready to embark on an overhaul,
270 hours after the engine was last "overhauled". My mechanic says he
thinks the problem probably has existed for some time--he suspects the
overhauler pretty much gaffed off some stuff, and took some short cuts.
Like not torqueing the case through bolts and cylinder base nuts properly?
If the through bolts have been lose for some time I can almost guarantee you
that the case has been working and fretting and will require lapping and
line boring when you overhaul the engine at an extra expense of about $1000.
It also sounds as if the engine sat around for quite awhile and was not
flown, possibly in a moist environment, since the cam and followers are
spalling and pitted after such a low number of hours.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Jackson" <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Cylinder Base Stud Update
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson"
<steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
>
> Thought I would spare myself the flood of emails that would result from
> posting this on the Gang.
>
> Anyway, finally got the cylinder off and began removing studs. My
mechanic
> started looking at my cylinder while I was working on the studs and
started
> noticing things. The intake valve stem was damaged, the followers were
both
> pitted with resulting cam lobe wear, etc. Oh yeah, I almost forgot to say
> that the base nuts, well half of them we got off without even using the
> socket wrench connected to the cylinder base wrench. About 10-15 ft/lbs
on
> most of them. Only two were even close to what they should have been, and
> neither were torque to the proper amount. So, instead of too tight, they
> were way too loose, etc. So, I'm getting ready to embark on an overhaul,
> 270 hours after the engine was last "overhauled". My mechanic says he
> thinks the problem probably has existed for some time--he suspects the
> overhauler pretty much gaffed off some stuff, and took some short cuts.
I'm
> going to take some pictures of the damaged parts if anyone's interested in
> checking them out. I don't know if I can post them on Team Grumman, so if
> anyone is interested in taking a look, I can send them later.
>
> I'll keep updating as I go with this. I still haven't exactly figured out
> what I'm going to do with regards to the overhaul yet.
>
> You don't know what you don't know...
>
> Steven Jackson
> N1434R
> L22
> Yucca Valley, CA
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson" <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
Gents,
Thanks for the speedy replies. I'm going to make a decision very quickly
about the overhaul. I am concerned about the overall age of the motor, and
whether or not its worth it to try and fix it or just start over. I'm going
to start the removal this afternoon and weekend as I mull over my options.
Factory new is certainly an attractive option for peace of mind, but I don't
want to knee jerk if I don't have to.
Is there a way to check for fretting inside the main bearings without
splitting the case halves? We used a mirror to check the cam and followers.
I'm assuming we can do the same for the crank? The only reason I ask is to
prepare myself for what an overhauler is going to eventually find. I've
pretty much hit my "surprise" threshold with all of this.
Also, Bob you mention a "more modern" engine series--does that mean get away
from the "B" series and go for a "D"?
"Money is only good if you spend it"
Steven Jackson
N1434R
L22
Yucca Valley, CA
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: bob milligan <flyer.bob@verizon.net>
on 7/25/03 6:50 AM, Steven Jackson at steven.jackson14@adelphia.net wrote:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson"
> <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
>
> Gents,
>
> Thanks for the speedy replies. I'm going to make a decision very quickly
> about the overhaul. I am concerned about the overall age of the motor, and
> whether or not its worth it to try and fix it or just start over. I'm going
> to start the removal this afternoon and weekend as I mull over my options.
> Factory new is certainly an attractive option for peace of mind, but I don't
> want to knee jerk if I don't have to.
>
> Is there a way to check for fretting inside the main bearings without
> splitting the case halves? We used a mirror to check the cam and followers.
> I'm assuming we can do the same for the crank? The only reason I ask is to
> prepare myself for what an overhauler is going to eventually find. I've
> pretty much hit my "surprise" threshold with all of this.
>
> Also, Bob you mention a "more modern" engine series--does that mean get away
> from the "B" series and go for a "D"?
>
> "Money is only good if you spend it"
>
> Steven Jackson
> N1434R
> L22
> Yucca Valley, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
Steve,
If you have not yet spoken with Ron Monson at Performance Aero Engines,
Bracket Field, you might want to give him a call. Whether you need a simple
job done, or a better-than-new OH, he will give you straight answers.
Several world class aerobatic pilots bring him all their engine work.
Ron's # 909-593-5008.
Bob Milligan
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs) |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
The case must be split to check for fretting as well as the condition of the
main bearings and crank journals. The rod brgs and journals can be checked
without splitting the case.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Jackson" <steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Engine Overhaul (Was Cylinder Base Studs)
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson"
<steven.jackson14@adelphia.net>
>
> Gents,
>
> Thanks for the speedy replies. I'm going to make a decision very quickly
> about the overhaul. I am concerned about the overall age of the motor,
and
> whether or not its worth it to try and fix it or just start over. I'm
going
> to start the removal this afternoon and weekend as I mull over my options.
> Factory new is certainly an attractive option for peace of mind, but I
don't
> want to knee jerk if I don't have to.
>
> Is there a way to check for fretting inside the main bearings without
> splitting the case halves? We used a mirror to check the cam and
followers.
> I'm assuming we can do the same for the crank? The only reason I ask is
to
> prepare myself for what an overhauler is going to eventually find. I've
> pretty much hit my "surprise" threshold with all of this.
>
> Also, Bob you mention a "more modern" engine series--does that mean get
away
> from the "B" series and go for a "D"?
>
> "Money is only good if you spend it"
>
> Steven Jackson
> N1434R
> L22
> Yucca Valley, CA
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: FOR SALE - 1978 GRUMMAN TIGER N28763 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/25/03 09:45:56 AM, espmktg@ix.netcom.com writes:
> I've seen this plane.=A0 Yours (Travis') is, in my opinion, a nicer plane=20and
> more highly restored, but what do I know about airplanes.
>
>
Thanks. Travis will take $130 for his.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cheetah Speeds |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 07/25/03 11:02:28 AM, john.kukel@siemens.com writes:
> Gang,
>
> Some were having trouble with the format of my last post.=A0 The data is
> better presented in an excel doc.
>
> John
> <<AA5A_speeds.xls>>
>
>
Except you can't send attachments on GG. Ask Matt at Team Grumman and he'll
post the past for you
Gary
www.AuCountry.com
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