Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:32 AM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 (Aucountry@aol.com)
2. 01:34 AM - Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/20/03 (Aucountry@aol.com)
3. 04:33 AM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #3 (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 (flyv35b)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #3 (flyv35b)
6. 06:32 AM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 (linn walters)
7. 10:16 AM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
8. 10:28 AM - While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
9. 10:54 AM - Shameless Ad: TeamGrumman Listers get 15% off all merchandise at Bad Cat Aviation (Rob Miller)
10. 11:05 AM - Shameless Ad: Coupon code "Grumman" (Rob Miller)
11. 11:30 AM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Charles Adams)
12. 11:51 AM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
13. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Charles Adams)
14. 12:31 PM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
15. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Charles Adams)
16. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (flyv35b)
17. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Charles Adams)
18. 04:24 PM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
19. 04:25 PM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
20. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Charles Adams)
21. 04:50 PM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
22. 05:34 PM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #3 (Aucountry@aol.com)
23. 05:40 PM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Aucountry@aol.com)
24. 06:21 PM - Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com)
25. 06:46 PM - Re: Gas Tank Leak #3-ANSWER (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
26. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. (Charles Adams)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 08/24/03 04:33:36 PM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com writes:
> WELL ... On my system there is NO rubber line.=A0 The 1/4" Aluminum breather
> line is fitted at both ends (Sump & Wing Tank) with aluminum flair
> fittings.=A0
>
I don't think I've ever seen a plane with no vent lines in or to the tank. =20
Check again. The metal fittings are fuel lines.
Gary
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 08/20/03 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 08/24/03 06:46:08 AM, flyv35b@juno.com writes:
> I think this was previously answered.=A0 All of the engines use the same
> vernatherm valve to my knowledge.=A0=A0 And yes the nust is crimped or staked
on
> to prevent it from loosening and backing off.=A0 Security of the nut can be
> checked by compressing the spring and trying to move the nut to see if it=20is
> tight.
>
Are you talking about the nut on the vernatherm seat itself? yes, it must
be staked to prevcent it from coming off.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #3 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 8/25/03 4:32:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Aucountry@aol.com writes:
> > WELL ... On my system there is NO rubber line.=A0 The 1/4" Aluminum
> breather
> > line is fitted at both ends (Sump & Wing Tank) with aluminum flair
> > fittings.=A0
> >
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a plane with no vent lines in or to the tank.
=
> 20
> Check again. The metal fittings are fuel lines.
>
> Gary
======================
Gary:
To better describe what I have ... wish I had a digital camera ... but here
goes:
~ Grumman AA-5, built at the end of 1973 BUT Licensed in 1974 with a Baggage
Door, S/N: 0436. I don't know if that info makes any difference
~ From the SUMP there are 4 Aluminum lines that ALL have Flair Fittings on
the SUMP.
~ 2 Lines (inside area of sump, large diameter about 1/2") go to the wing
tank.
~ 1 Line goes from the rear aft of the sump to the fuselage ( fuel selector
valve)
~ 1 Line 1/4" diameter on the forward TOP of the sump goes to the TOP of the
wing tank, it is the breather line. YES, it does have a Flair Fitting going
INTO the Wing Tank. Double and triple checked that.
The rubber line, that we are discussing??? Is that the one INSIDE the wing
tank that drains water from the filler cap area?
If NOT... I do not have a rubber line on the breather coming from the sump.
NONE at all. Maybe that is a good thing?
Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
I think he's saying the rubber hose in the vent line was replaced with
flared tubing and a tube union. I don't know how you'd get a flaring tool
up in there to do that. There isn't enough room.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <Aucountry@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gas Tank Leak #2
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 08/24/03 04:33:36 PM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > WELL ... On my system there is NO rubber line.=A0 The 1/4" Aluminum
breather
> > line is fitted at both ends (Sump & Wing Tank) with aluminum flair
> > fittings.=A0
> >
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a plane with no vent lines in or to the tank.
> Check again. The metal fittings are fuel lines.
>
> Gary
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #3 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
> The rubber line, that we are discussing??? Is that the one INSIDE the wing
> tank that drains water from the filler cap area?
That's called the scupper drain line and there is a short rubber hose inside
the tank connecting the two aluminum tuges.
> If NOT... I do not have a rubber line on the breather coming from the
sump.
> NONE at all. Maybe that is a good thing?
>
> Barry
This would be the first I have heard of this. I guess the factory made it
this way when they install the breather line. It is a better arrangement in
some respects in that there is not hose to deteriorate.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <FLYaDIVE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gas Tank Leak #3
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/25/03 4:32:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Aucountry@aol.com writes:
>
> > > WELL ... On my system there is NO rubber line.=A0 The 1/4" Aluminum
> > breather
> > > line is fitted at both ends (Sump & Wing Tank) with aluminum flair
> > > fittings.=A0
> > >
> >
> > I don't think I've ever seen a plane with no vent lines in or to the
tank.
> > > 20
> > Check again. The metal fittings are fuel lines.
> >
> > Gary
> ======================
> Gary:
>
> To better describe what I have ... wish I had a digital camera ... but
here
> goes:
> ~ Grumman AA-5, built at the end of 1973 BUT Licensed in 1974 with a
Baggage
> Door, S/N: 0436. I don't know if that info makes any difference
> ~ From the SUMP there are 4 Aluminum lines that ALL have Flair Fittings on
> the SUMP.
> ~ 2 Lines (inside area of sump, large diameter about 1/2") go to the wing
> tank.
> ~ 1 Line goes from the rear aft of the sump to the fuselage ( fuel
selector
> valve)
> ~ 1 Line 1/4" diameter on the forward TOP of the sump goes to the TOP of
the
> wing tank, it is the breather line. YES, it does have a Flair Fitting
going
> INTO the Wing Tank. Double and triple checked that.
>
> The rubber line, that we are discussing??? Is that the one INSIDE the wing
> tank that drains water from the filler cap area?
> If NOT... I do not have a rubber line on the breather coming from the
sump.
> NONE at all. Maybe that is a good thing?
>
> Barry
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
flyv35b wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
>
>I think he's saying the rubber hose in the vent line was replaced with
>flared tubing and a tube union. I don't know how you'd get a flaring tool
>up in there to do that. There isn't enough room.
>
And I think the 'sump' is the gear fairing. But then that's what I get
for thinking!!! :-!
Linn
>
>Cliff A&P/IA
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Aucountry@aol.com>
>To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gas Tank Leak #2
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #2 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
You could not get a flaring tool in my wing. Could it have been done when
the aux tanks were installed??
Tom
Message 8
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| Subject: | While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
I have the aux tank STC in my AA1. One filler cap per side. It is a major
pain in the patoot to fill it up. The cross feed tubes between the two tanks
are just too small for efficient filling. Can I add another line/bigger line /
another filler cap??
Tom
Message 9
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| Subject: | Shameless Ad: TeamGrumman Listers get 15% off all merchandise |
at Bad Cat Aviation
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
Hi Listers
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parts of the List, I would like to welcome all Teamgrumman listers to our
webstore Bad Cat Aviation--Toy Airplanes and Unique Pilot Gifts. We have
a large selection of toys and gifts that are impossible to find in your
average FBO or department store. For a limited time, take 15% off all
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=====
Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM 135 hours
Bad Cat Aviation--Toy Airplanes and Unique Pilot Gifts
www.badcataviation.com
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Shameless Ad: Coupon code "Grumman" |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Rob Miller <rmill2000@yahoo.com>
Use Coupon Code "Grumman" during check-out at Bad Cat Aviation and receive
15% off all merchandise.
www.badcataviation.com
=====
Rob Miller RV-8 N262RM 135 hours
Bad Cat Aviation--Toy Airplanes and Unique Pilot Gifts
www.badcataviation.com
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams <cradams2@adelphia.net>
Tom,
If you have the Blackman tanks you will have to call him. This sounds like a major
design change. Are you trying to bring it more in line with the DMA tanks?
Charlie Adams
>
> From: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon AM 10:27:00 PDT
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
Charlie,
I'll check my paperwork to be sure, but I think this is the DMA stc. I've
never heard anyone else whining about the length of time it takes to refuel
tho', so I'm not sure what I'm trying to solve just yet! ;-)
It is really hot here in the summers, so I could just be feeling that?? I
fill one side to the brim and a little bit, then fill the other side to the brim
and a little bit, go back to the first side and top again, then back to the
second side and top again, plus trickling in whatever will go in (it is still
not full) and go back and trickle the first side until it is up to the brim (it
still isn't full either), then run out of patience and put it all away. I am
very careful about fuel burn vs time, just in case.
Tom
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams <cradams2@adelphia.net>
Tom,
Its easy to check. DMA tanks have a fuel cap for eack tank total 4.
Charlie
>
> From: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon AM 11:51:03 PDT
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
I definitely have just two fuel caps. I'm headed out to the airport now and
will dig thru the paperwork to see what I've actually got. There is an
article re the process and some fotos of this airplane getting the work done in
Madera, CA, but I do not recall any formal stc paperwork. Not a particular
surprise, given the history of this airplane.
thx,
Tom
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams <cradams2@adelphia.net>
Tom,
If it was installed in Madera it is not Blackmans. Sounds like the type Bill Kelly
already had on his AA1C that Gary just finished the upgrades. If so, it was
installed on a field approval. My paperwork on this system is also at the hangar,
but I won't be going out until tommorrow.
Charlie Adams
>
> From: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 12:30:32 PDT
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
I think it's the other way around isn't it? Blackmans have separate caps
and DMA do not.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Adams" <cradams2@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams
<cradams2@adelphia.net>
>
> Tom,
>
> Its easy to check. DMA tanks have a fuel cap for eack tank total 4.
>
> Charlie
> >
> > From: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
> > Date: 2003/08/25 Mon AM 11:51:03 PDT
> > To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams <cradams2@adelphia.net>
Sorry Cliff,
I have the DMA tanks and have installed them. There is a seperate cap for each
tank.
In the Blackman install I don't recall seeing more than one cap per side on his
installations. I remarked that it was not Blackmans install because it was done
in Madera. Ken is the only one who does his install.
Charlie
>
> From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 02:34:26 PDT
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
I just looked thru the paperwork. Nothing on an aux tank installation. My
IA has the logbooks finishing off the paperwork from my annual, so I'll dig
thru that later. Near as I can tell, there is a 3/8" line at the inboard end of
the aux tank that T's into the outlet of the main tank. The aux tank is
forward of the spar. The filler at the top is about 1" from what I can see by
flashlight and mirror.
It will be interesting to chase down. I have the CD from OKC. I'll thumb
thru that this evening. A 337 should be there, but an STC will not.
Tom
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
Do you think that DMA or Blackman's would have a record of who they sold the
STCs to? I can send them an email??
Tom
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams <cradams2@adelphia.net>
This upgrade is from a guy in So Cal. Had very good paper work for the field approval.
This is the same as is on Bill Kellys AA1C.
Gary, do you have a copy of Bills aux tank install?
If Gary doesn't, I can copy and send to you.
Charlie
>
> From: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 04:23:25 PDT
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
I would appreciate it. email or snail mail?
Tom
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #3 |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
It could be that you just have a plane that is different from anything I've
seen. Maybe American Aircraft tried something different with that plane and
then changed their minds.
Gary
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com
In a message dated 08/25/03 04:45:19 PM, cradams2@adelphia.net writes:
> Gary, do you have a copy of Bills aux tank install?
>
> If Gary doesn't, I can copy and send to you.
>
> Charlie
>
No, I didn't keep a copy of Bills paperwork. I like the single filler cap.
Bills has a crossfeed at the top so that if the guy filling the tanks aims
it toward the front, it fills the front tank. Filler neck to the aux tank is
about 1 1/4 inch.
Gary
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com
Charlie/Gary,
this sure looks like what I have all right. I'll know more when I get a
chance to dig thru the logs.
thx,
Tom
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Leak #3-ANSWER |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 8/25/03 9:31:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, flyv35b@juno.com
writes:
> This would be the first I have heard of this. I guess the factory made it
> this way when they install the breather line. It is a better arrangement
in
> some respects in that there is not hose to deteriorate.
>
> Cliff A&P/IA
================
Cliff & TG:
I got some information about the RUBBER breather hose. It is ONLY on AA-5A &
B's it is NOT on the AA-5. The LONG RANGE (50 Gallon) tanks have the rubber
breather hose.
Maybe some AA-5 owners can verify that.
Barry
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: While on the thread of fuel tanks. |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Charles Adams <cradams2@adelphia.net>
The type of tanks Tom has on his AA-1 are from a design by P. Lewis Design and
Consultation . He was located in Cucamonga,CA. He was an FAA DER. The 337 was
quite complete with all the necessary forms for installation and sign off along
with his form 8110-3 DER sign off.
The aux tank is located forward of the main tank. These are similar to Blackmans
tanks except they don't use a pump to move the fuel.
Charlie Adams
>
> From: Aucountry@aol.com
> Date: 2003/08/25 Mon PM 05:39:55 PDT
> To: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: While on the thread of fuel tanks.
>
>
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