---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/12/03: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:40 AM - For those who sell Grummans (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 2. 10:49 AM - Re: For those who sell Grummans (Roger Tracy) 3. 11:09 AM - Re: For those who sell Grummans (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 4. 12:07 PM - (Aucountry@aol.com) 5. 12:18 PM - Re: For those who sell Grummans (Cory Emberson) 6. 12:41 PM - Re: For those who sell Grummans (Aucountry@aol.com) 7. 12:43 PM - Re: For those who sell Grummans (Aucountry@aol.com) 8. 01:24 PM - Gang Bashing (Bradley Kidder) 9. 01:53 PM - Re: Gang Bashing (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 10. 02:04 PM - Re: Gang Bashing (Cory Emberson) 11. 02:22 PM - Re: Gang Bashing (Roger Tracy) 12. 02:23 PM - Re: (James Courtney) 13. 03:15 PM - Traveler for sale. (ThomasTholmes512@aol.com) 14. 05:04 PM - Re: CHT's (Ron Levy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:40 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Hi TG: For those who sell Grumman's, here is a scam that is floating around. I just want us Grumman folk to be fore warned. How does the quote go? "To be fore warned is to be fore armed." I did not post this on the GG because I do not know how the GG Moderator would view it. If you feel it would be viewed favorably, please post it. Barry ==================================== Canarders, Two days ago I put an ad on the EZ.org web site advertising my project. This is one of the responses I received. Hello, my name is micheal, i am highly interested in purcashing your (Long-EZ project consisting of fuselage tub and stub spar) which iwill like to know the price,Pls mail me back if you can sell so as to contact my client who is owing me the amount of ($4, 000)and as agreed to pay me through certified cashier check or money order ,i contacted him that i saw your (Long-EZ project consisting of fuselage tub and stub spar) which i want to buy so that> he can> send the check to you ,.if you agree about the deal we will conclude on agreement that you will send me the remaining excess fund to my shipping agent so as to clear (Long-EZ project consisting of fuselage tub and stub spar) from the port, but for the shipment you will take care of that, you will take out of the funds to shipped the goods. so as soon as the goods get to the port my shipping agent will arrange for it to be cleard from the port.so if you send the remaining excess fund to my shipping agent ,he will use it to clear the goods module from the port. please reply if you wish to sell and i will be very glad if you give me the following datas to be forward to my client for him to issue out the certified cashier check or money order in your name. thanks ....... and you will have to send your abnking infor and your banking contact your bank account number and nyour own add. micheal -- Since some of you might not have seen this scam, I thought I'd post it as a warning. This is a two pronged scam. Part one, I will send you a money order in excess of the amount required and you can send me the remainder. You can bet your bottom dollar that money order is counterfeit and you won't find out about it until your bank tells you the entire amount has been removed from your account. Part two, Give me your bank account number. The classic Nigerian scam with a humble twist. You aren't going to get the millions left somewhere by the mother's brother's wife's sister's father brother uncle who was a general, minister, president as a reward for helping get the money out of the country, you're just going to get your account cleaned out. Several years ago I got so tired of the Nigerian scam I called the local FBI office for advice. Because it originates from a foreign country there is nothing that can be done except register a complaint with the embassy of the country. I won't go into editorial comment about what I'd LIKE to do to these thieving S.O.B.'s. It ain't a nice world out there sometimes, ya'll be careful and be smart. The free lunch was canceled due to the recession. Rick Girard ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:31 AM PST US From: "Roger Tracy" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Roger Tracy" Ha ha .. sounds like a copy of the 10 or so emails I get each week from most likely Nigeria that offer to give me a bunch of cash if I'll give them my bank info so they can use my account to sneak money out of their country. Are people really dumb enough to do this? ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans | --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com | | Hi TG: | | For those who sell Grumman's, here is a scam that is floating around. I just | want us Grumman folk to be fore warned. How does the quote go? "To be fore | warned is to be fore armed." | I did not post this on the GG because I do not know how the GG Moderator | would view it. If you feel it would be viewed favorably, please post it. | | Barry | ==================================== | | Canarders, Two days ago I put an ad on the EZ.org web site advertising | my project. This is one of the responses I received. | | Hello, my name is micheal, i am highly interested in purcashing your | (Long-EZ project consisting of fuselage tub and stub spar) which iwill | like to know the price,Pls mail me back if you can sell so as to contact | my client who is owing me the amount of ($4, 000)and as agreed to pay me | through certified cashier check or money order ,i contacted him that i | saw your (Long-EZ project consisting of fuselage tub and stub spar) | which i want to buy so that> he can> send the check to you ,.if you | agree about the deal we will conclude on agreement that you will send me | the remaining excess fund to my shipping agent so as to clear (Long-EZ | project consisting of fuselage tub and stub spar) from the port, but for | the shipment you will take care of that, you will take out of the funds | to shipped the goods. so as soon as the goods get to the port my | shipping agent will arrange for it to be cleard from the port.so if you | send the remaining excess fund to my shipping agent ,he will use it to | clear the goods module from the port. please reply if you wish to sell | and i will be very glad if you give me the following datas to be forward | to my client for him to issue out the certified cashier check or money | order in your name. thanks ....... and you will have to send your | abnking infor and your banking contact your bank account number and | nyour own add. micheal | -- | Since some of you might not have seen this scam, I thought I'd post it | as a warning. This is a two pronged scam. | Part one, I will send you a money order in excess of the amount required | and you can send me the remainder. You can bet your bottom dollar that | money order is counterfeit and you won't find out about it until your | bank tells you the entire amount has been removed from your account. | Part two, Give me your bank account number. The classic Nigerian scam | with a humble twist. You aren't going to get the millions left somewhere | by the mother's brother's wife's sister's father brother uncle who was a | general, minister, president as a reward for helping get the money out | of the country, you're just going to get your account cleaned out. | Several years ago I got so tired of the Nigerian scam I called the local | FBI office for advice. Because it originates from a foreign country | there is nothing that can be done except register a complaint with the | embassy of the country. I won't go into editorial comment about what I'd | LIKE to do to these thieving S.O.B.'s. | It ain't a nice world out there sometimes, ya'll be careful and be | smart. The free lunch was canceled due to the recession. | | Rick Girard | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:31 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/03 1:50:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rtracy@alltel.net writes: > > Ha ha .. sounds like a copy of the 10 or so emails I get each > week from most likely Nigeria that offer to give me a bunch > of cash if I'll give them my bank info so they can use my > account to sneak money out of their country. > > Are people really dumb enough to do this? ======================== YES, YES they are. But worse than stupidity is GREED. A Scam/Conifidance Game will not work on an honest person. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:34 PM PST US From: Aucountry@aol.com --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com In a message dated 09/11/03 07:02:22 PM, rblevy@mindspring.com writes: > > From: LEEPARTYKA@cs.com [mailto:LEEPARTYKA@cs.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:15 PM > > > > I JUST INSTALLED A CYLINDER HEAD TEMP GAUGE AFTER MONITORING THE FEEDBACK > ON THE GANG EMAILS, I HAVE A 77 TIGER. WHAT SHOULD I BE LOOKING FOR NORMAL > TEMPS. > > You want to see no more than 400F in cruise and no more than 420F in climb. > You can stand occasionally up to about 420F in cruise and 450F in climb, but > not for long and not often. > > Ron > Well, this is ENTIRELY dependent on which CHT/EGT setup he's using.=A0 Any=20of the cheaper units use a basic thermal couple that sits in the well in the cylinder head.=A0 Those only measure the local air temp in the well.=A0 A JPI EDM 700/800 series uses a probe that actually goes up and touches the cylinder head inside the well.=A0 Rather than meauring the air, it's a direct contact heat sensor.=A0 I've talked to JPI and these probes will indicate UP TO 50 degrees hotter than the other style which measures air temp.=A0 Good or bad, the argument can be made that Lycoming originally measured CHT with the cheaper style probe (but, we really don't know what probe they used) to measure CHT and arrive at what they felt was the maximum CHT for climb/cruise etc.=A0 I regularly hear pilots reporting CHTs in the mid 300s.=A0 I doubt it would look that good with a JPI.=A0 I installed a JPI EDM 700 into a Comanche with a new engine.=A0 Since the plane came with a single cylinder CHT probe, for the heck-of-it, we left that probe and flew the plane.=A0 The original 40 year old setup is easily 50 degrees cooler than the JPI.=A0 We tried swapping the probes around and it consistently showed cooler than when the JPI was used.=A0 The #5 cylinder on the Comanche will go to 460 in climb.=A0=A0 That is consistent with our #3 cylinder's behavior.=A0 The Comanche cowling, after doing some flow tests, blocks 90% of the air in climb.=A0 It's really a poor design.=A0 If you can keep temps below 450 in climb with a JPI, I'd call that good.=A0=20In cruise, look for anything around 400-410. Gary www.AuCountry.com Home of "Team Grumman" TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/subscribe ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:36 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" For an afternoon's worth of fun and Schadenfreude, try www.scamorama.com. This site has many examples of the email recipients striking back at the Lads from Lagos. It's good stuff. Thanks for posting the warning, though. There may be some folks who have tried to get rid of an unfinished project, and are becoming desperate to get whatever they can out of it. Cory ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Tracy" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Roger Tracy" > > Ha ha .. sounds like a copy of the 10 or so emails I get each > week from most likely Nigeria that offer to give me a bunch > of cash if I'll give them my bank info so they can use my > account to sneak money out of their country. > > Are people really dumb enough to do this? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans > > > just fore it. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:20 PM PST US From: Aucountry@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com In a message dated 09/12/03 10:41:00 AM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com writes: > Hi TG: > > For those who sell Grumman's, here is a scam that is floating around.=A0 I > just > want us Grumman folk to be fore warned. How does the quote go? "To be fore > warned is to be fore armed." > I did not post this on the GG because I do not know how the GG Moderator > would view it.=A0 If you feel it would be viewed favorably, please post it. > > Barry > I've been kicked of the GG for less ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:07 PM PST US From: Aucountry@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: For those who sell Grummans --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com In a message dated 09/12/03 11:13:10 AM, FLYaDIVE@aol.com writes: > YES, YES they are.=A0 But worse than stupidity is GREED.=A0 A Scam/Conifidance > Game will not work on an honest person. > > Oh, Man, you mean I won't get my money back from Nigeria. Damn, ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:04 PM PST US From: Bradley Kidder Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bradley Kidder I got kicked from "The Gang" for posting a TFR. ><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA> =B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8. , . .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7...=B8><((((=BA> Bradley Kidder N188FW AA-1 #124 "Hawg One" NTSB / EAA / AOPA / AYA ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:33 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/03 4:26:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sparksnmagic@usa.net writes: > I got kicked from "The Gang" for posting a TFR. > > > > Bradley Kidder > N188FW AA-1 #124 "Hawg One" > NTSB / EAA / AOPA / AYA > ================ So did I Brad Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:27 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" I got caught in the BugBearB virus street sweep, replying to Ron Levy's message. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/12/03 4:26:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > sparksnmagic@usa.net writes: > > > I got kicked from "The Gang" for posting a TFR. > > > > > > > > Bradley Kidder > > N188FW AA-1 #124 "Hawg One" > > NTSB / EAA / AOPA / AYA > > > ================ > So did I Brad > > Barry > "Chop'd Liver" > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:35 PM PST US From: "Roger Tracy" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Roger Tracy" Me too. Didn't get kicked off .. just chastised. Of course .. got kicked off a couple years ago and was gone for a year for replying to an "off topic" post. I can understand wanting to stay focused on aviation and Grummans .. but one AYA member treating the rest like that is a bit much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing | --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" | | I got caught in the BugBearB virus street sweep, replying to Ron Levy's | message. | | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: | To: | Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Gang Bashing | | | > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com | > | > In a message dated 9/12/03 4:26:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, | > sparksnmagic@usa.net writes: | > | > > I got kicked from "The Gang" for posting a TFR. | > > | > > | > > | > > Bradley Kidder | > > N188FW AA-1 #124 "Hawg One" | > > NTSB / EAA / AOPA / AYA | > > | > ================ | > So did I Brad | > | > Barry | > "Chop'd Liver" | > | > | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:28 PM PST US From: "James Courtney" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: RE: --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "James Courtney" I shoot for 420-430 in climb on a warm day. So I'm doing okay then, good:) Jamey AA5B N72T @ KSQL -----Original Message----- From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aucountry@aol.com Subject: --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Aucountry@aol.com In a message dated 09/11/03 07:02:22 PM, rblevy@mindspring.com writes: > > From: LEEPARTYKA@cs.com [mailto:LEEPARTYKA@cs.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:15 PM > > > > I JUST INSTALLED A CYLINDER HEAD TEMP GAUGE AFTER MONITORING THE FEEDBACK > ON THE GANG EMAILS, I HAVE A 77 TIGER. WHAT SHOULD I BE LOOKING FOR NORMAL > TEMPS. > > You want to see no more than 400F in cruise and no more than 420F in climb. > You can stand occasionally up to about 420F in cruise and 450F in climb, but > not for long and not often. > > Ron > Well, this is ENTIRELY dependent on which CHT/EGT setup he's using.=A0 Any=20of the cheaper units use a basic thermal couple that sits in the well in the cylinder head.=A0 Those only measure the local air temp in the well.=A0 A JPI EDM 700/800 series uses a probe that actually goes up and touches the cylinder head inside the well.=A0 Rather than meauring the air, it's a direct contact heat sensor.=A0 I've talked to JPI and these probes will indicate UP TO 50 degrees hotter than the other style which measures air temp.=A0 Good or bad, the argument can be made that Lycoming originally measured CHT with the cheaper style probe (but, we really don't know what probe they used) to measure CHT and arrive at what they felt was the maximum CHT for climb/cruise etc.=A0 I regularly hear pilots reporting CHTs in the mid 300s.=A0 I doubt it would look that good with a JPI.=A0 I installed a JPI EDM 700 into a Comanche with a new engine.=A0 Since the plane came with a single cylinder CHT probe, for the heck-of-it, we left that probe and flew the plane.=A0 The original 40 year old setup is easily 50 degrees cooler than the JPI.=A0 We tried swapping the probes around and it consistently showed cooler than when the JPI was used.=A0 The #5 cylinder on the Comanche will go to 460 in climb.=A0=A0 That is consistent with our #3 cylinder's behavior.=A0 The Comanche cowling, after doing some flow tests, blocks 90% of the air in climb.=A0 It's really a poor design.=A0 If you can keep temps below 450 in climb with a JPI, I'd call that good.=A0=20In cruise, look for anything around 400-410. Gary www.AuCountry.com Home of "Team Grumman" TeamGrumman-List@matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/subscribe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:27 PM PST US From: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler for sale. --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: ThomasTholmes512@aol.com Team, I parked next to a nice Traveler this am w/a for sale sign in the window. ''72 Traveler, Annual and IFR cert 8/03 $26k 559-225-2239 "please don't kick me off" Tom ;-) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:19 PM PST US From: "Ron Levy" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: RE: CHT's --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Ron Levy" > From: Aucountry@aol.com [mailto:Aucountry@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 3:05 PM > > In a message dated 09/11/03 07:02:22 PM, rblevy@mindspring.com writes: > > You want to see no more than 400F in cruise and no more than 420F in climb. > > You can stand occasionally up to about 420F in cruise and 450F in climb, but > > not for long and not often. > > > Well, this is ENTIRELY dependent on which CHT/EGT setup he's using. In terms of what you see on the gauge, yes, but in terms of what the temperature really is, no -- you should adjust what you see by whatever the known error is (see below) to determine the true CHT and keep that true CHT within those ranges. > Any of > the cheaper units use a basic thermal couple that sits in the well in the > cylinder head. Those only measure the local air temp in the well. Can't speak to this one. > A JPI EDM 700/800 series uses a probe that actually goes up and touches the > cylinder head inside the well. Rather than meauring the air, it's a direct > contact heat sensor. I've talked to JPI and these probes will indicate UP TO > 50 degrees hotter than the other style which measures air temp. The JPI's use any one of four different probe types. The preferred one is the CHT well type that Gary mentions, and it is the most accurate. That's what we have in the Cougar. The others are for use when you have a Tanis heater system. One is a combined heater/thermocouple that is equally accurate. The other two are a collar type which goes around the heater probe and according to JPI read about 30F low, and the other is the spark plug gasket type. According to JPI, which did extensive flight testing with instrumented engines, the gasket thermocouples read 40 to 80F higher than the cylinders actual temperature, and 40F more higher on the rear cylinders than the front. > Good or bad, the argument can be made that Lycoming originally measured CHT > with the cheaper style probe (but, we really don't know what probe they used) > to measure CHT and arrive at what they felt was the maximum CHT for > climb/cruise etc. I think it's safe to assume that Lycoming's engineers set the recommended limits based on engineering analysis, and that those numbers should be compared to the "true" (corrected) CHT's. > I regularly hear pilots reporting CHTs in the mid 300s. I doubt it would > look that good with a JPI. That's what I show with my JPI EDM-760 with CHT well probes on my front four cylinders. Three of the four back cylinders show high 300's and the #4 on the right engine usually cruises right around 400F. > If you can keep temps below 450 in climb with a JPI, I'd call that good. In > cruise, look for anything around 400-410. In our Cheetah, we used to see around 420-430F with a JPI EDM-700 after Carol Scott rebuilt our baffles. Cruise was in the high 300's except in the summer up high where it would get up around 400F (thin air, less effective cooling). Ron