Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:18 AM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (Mark Thomas Mueller)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (flyv35b)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (Gil Alexander)
4. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
5. 10:04 AM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
6. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (923te)
7. 03:00 PM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (Bruce Smith)
8. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
9. 06:28 PM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM)
10. 07:36 PM - Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (flyv35b)
11. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Roller cam for Lycomings (flyv35b)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
I heard about this coming at OSH. Any idea on availability timeframes?
My motor is at 1920 SMOH...
Mark
Tiger N1533R
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 09:54:26 PM PST US
From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Roller cam for Lycomings
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
I went to the Reno Air Races this last weekend. At the Lycoming tent,
they
had a mock-up of a roller cam for the O360. The really sweet thing
about
Lycoming making it avialable (they can machine your engine case to fit
the new
lifters) is that a roller cam can be made to put out all sorts of
horsepower or
torque at any rpm or for any range you want.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> I went to the Reno Air Races this last weekend. At the Lycoming tent,
> they
> had a mock-up of a roller cam for the O360. The really sweet thing about
> Lycoming making it avialable (they can machine your engine case to fit the
> new
> lifters) is that a roller cam can be made to put out all sorts of
> horsepower or
> torque at any rpm or for any range you want.
I was at Reno also for 3 days (wish I had known you were going to be there
we could have got together). The roller cam does look interesting, but I
doubt that Lycoming will change the HP rating of the engine much (maybe not
at all) because of it. One possible significant advantage may be that the
cam is less susceptible to corrosion damage due to inactivity. It also
should reduce friction some. Now if they would just come up with a good
roller rocker arm to reduce friction and the side load on the valve guide
and reduce guide wear.
I was much more interested in Darryl Greenameyer's Legacy with the IO-550
engine that is pumping out about 600 hp with essentially a stock bottom end.
Of course it takes about 65 in. of manifold pressure, along with ADI and
spray bars at the nose bowl inlet to keep it from detonating and help cool
the cylinders. The airframe is virtually a stock Legacy as well. I was
talking to Darryl at Redmond, OR two weeks ago at the Lancair annual fly-in
and he said that he had just flown up from San Diego, CA in 2 hrs 45 min.
non-stop in the plane with the new engine he had just installed (same engine
he raced with). This same engine was oversped early in the week to 3600 rpm
due to a governor failure and they continued to race with it with another
prop. Pretty impressive when you think of the durability and versatility of
the engine and plane.
And then there is the Nemesis. The turbo and intercooler system on the
Lycoming IO-540 is the cleanest design I have ever seen on any plane (so
simple). Apparently the engine is somewhat a special design/model that
Lycoming did for the Nemisis. Who knows maybe Nemisis paid Lycoming to do
the development and design changes. They will be a serious, if not dominant
contender next year!
In second place was the Thunder Mustang with a normally aspirated V-12
pumping out over 600 hp at probably about 6000 rpm. A totally different
concept but pretty successful. And they have some more speed to gain by
reducing airframe drag if they want to get even more serious about racing.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Roller cam for Lycomings
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
> I went to the Reno Air Races this last weekend. At the Lycoming tent,
> they
> had a mock-up of a roller cam for the O360. The really sweet thing about
> Lycoming making it avialable (they can machine your engine case to fit the
> new
> lifters) is that a roller cam can be made to put out all sorts of
> horsepower or
> torque at any rpm or for any range you want.
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander <gilalex@earthlink.net>
More info on roller rocker arms - from "Southern Aviator" 9-3-04
However, reading closely, are they mixing up roller rockers and roller
lifters? .... gil in Tucson
Thomas F. Norton
9/3/2004
Pilots keep asking why aircraft engines don't benefit from automobile
engine technology.
Sometimes they do. For example, Superior Air Parts and Lycoming both
announced roller rocker arms for their engines at Oshkosh this year. Roller
lifters were developed for high performance automobile engines and are
widely used by the racing fraternity.
If roller rocker arms don't sound like much of an advance, consider their
advantages: Less oil required at startup, meaning longer life; higher
performance from cams without changing duration; faster opening and closing
of valves; smoother idle, adding up to better fuel economy with higher
performance and longer engine life, says Superior's Senior Vice President
Tim Archer.
Superior uses the roller lifters in its XP-360-Plus, a 180 hp engine for
experimental aircraft. It is an upgraded version of the XP-360, from which
the certified Vantage engine was developed. The XP-360 and 360-Plus engines
are built from certified parts, Archer said, but only the Vantage is a
certified engine.
The Vantage is one of several newly-certified engines seen flying on
certified airframes at Oshkosh. It was on American Champion's new High
Country Explorer, which Champion President Jerry Mehlhaff said is an
enhanced version of the 7GCBC Explorer. The Vantage can operate on unleaded
automobile fuel as well as aviation gasoline, Archer added.
Lycoming plans to introduce its roller tappets "across the board," said
spokeswoman Karla Sexton. The tappets will be phased in, she said, with
deliveries of some uncertified models planned for late this year and the
first certified versions early in 2005.
At 06:30 AM 9/22/2004, you wrote:
>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
><flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
>
> > I went to the Reno Air Races this last weekend. At the Lycoming tent,
> > they
> > had a mock-up of a roller cam for the O360. The really sweet thing about
> > Lycoming making it avialable (they can machine your engine case to fit the
> > new
> > lifters) is that a roller cam can be made to put out all sorts of
> > horsepower or
> > torque at any rpm or for any range you want.
>
>I was at Reno also for 3 days (wish I had known you were going to be there
>we could have got together). The roller cam does look interesting, but I
>doubt that Lycoming will change the HP rating of the engine much (maybe not
>at all) because of it. One possible significant advantage may be that the
>cam is less susceptible to corrosion damage due to inactivity. It also
>should reduce friction some. Now if they would just come up with a good
>roller rocker arm to reduce friction and the side load on the valve guide
>and reduce guide wear.
>
>
>Cliff A&P/IA
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
>To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Roller cam for Lycomings
>
>
> > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
> >
> > I went to the Reno Air Races this last weekend. At the Lycoming tent,
> > they
> > had a mock-up of a roller cam for the O360. The really sweet thing about
> > Lycoming making it avialable (they can machine your engine case to fit the
> > new
> > lifters) is that a roller cam can be made to put out all sorts of
> > horsepower or
> > torque at any rpm or for any range you want.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/04 2:19:37 AM, mark.t.mueller@comcast.net writes:
> I heard about this coming at OSH. Any idea on availability timeframes?
>
> My motor is at 1920 SMOH...
>
The guy at the desk said by January 05
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/04 6:34:32 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes:
> The roller cam does look interesting, but I doubt that Lycoming will change
> the HP rating of the engine much (maybe not at all) because of it.=A0
>
Yea, I wish I had known you were going to be there. As far as Lycoming
changing the horsepower rating, who cares? Now specialty cam shops can make a
cam for those who'd use it.
I watched the Lancair and Thunder Mustang race from the pits. Close, so
close. With comperable horsepower, the airframes must be close in drag also.
This would be a good opportunity to fine tune the mustang airframe on a
smaller scale and look for drag reduction.
As for horsepower, Sean Tucker is getting over 400 hp on his IO540 without a
turbo.
I'm sorry I didn't get to see Nemesis fly. I only went into the pits on
Sunday and by then, John Sharp was already gone.
I really want to build a Legacy. Lots of bucks though.
Gary
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Superior has a roller lifter available NOW for experimentals. I expect the
Lycoming part will come out as an experimental. Kind of like their IO390
engine. They like to have the experimentalist perform their field
testing....
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 9/22/04 2:19:37 AM, mark.t.mueller@comcast.net writes:
>
>
> > I heard about this coming at OSH. Any idea on availability timeframes?
> >
> > My motor is at 1920 SMOH...
> >
>
> The guy at the desk said by January 05
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bruce Smith <res02p3h@verizon.net>
Gary,
Yeah. like how much???
Bruce Smith
On Sep 22, 2004, at 12:54 AM, TeamGrumman@AOL.COM wrote:
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
> I went to the Reno Air Races this last weekend. At the Lycoming
> tent, they
> had a mock-up of a roller cam for the O360. The really sweet thing
> about
> Lycoming making it avialable (they can machine your engine case to fit
> the new
> lifters) is that a roller cam can be made to put out all sorts of
> horsepower or
> torque at any rpm or for any range you want.
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/04 11:16:16 AM, 923te@cox.net writes:
> Superior has a roller lifter available NOW for experimentals. I expect the
> Lycoming part will come out as an experimental. Kind of like their IO390
> engine.=A0 They like to have the experimentalist perform their field
> testing....
>
possibly, but, the Lycoming guy said 'certified' by jan 05
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
In a message dated 9/22/04 3:12:09 PM, res02p3h@verizon.net writes:
> Gary,
>
> Yeah. like how much???
>
> Bruce Smith
>
LyCon fooled around with various (non-roller) cam profiles a while back and
said something on the order of 10-15 hp in the mid range with just a cam. A
roller cam makes a lot of things possible. We'll have to wait and see.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> I watched the Lancair and Thunder Mustang race from the pits. Close, so
> close. With comparable horsepower, the airframes must be close in drag
> also.
> This would be a good opportunity to fine tune the mustang airframe on a
> smaller scale and look for drag reduction.
I heard that the Thunder Mustang engine put out a bit more HP than the
IO-550 in the Legacy. Nevertheless, reducing drag would make it even faster
and a new race windshield and canopy would be a good place to start. There
was some talk about them adding a mechanical supercharger to the engine.
Next year ought to be real interesting with the Nemesis back and probably
fully tested, which it wasn't this year.
> As for horsepower, Sean Tucker is getting over 400 hp on his IO540 without
> a
> turbo.
Is it an angle valve engine? What kind of fuel is he running?
There was a normally aspirated IO-550 Legacy that finished 3rd and not all
that far behind the Mustang. I believe his speed was 307 mph or close to
that. Not to shabby. I think they were getting about 380 hp (11.0:1 CR)
someone said (who knows). The cold air and lower density helped the
normally aspirated planes on Sunday.
> I really want to build a Legacy. Lots of bucks though.
Me too. I talked to a guy at Redmond that had built one for $150K. It had
IFR avionics, including a MX-20, but not the dual flat screen panels that a
lot of builders are going for. Some of those panels are $100K or so. I
think a Legacy would be the only thing that would temp me to get rid of the
Bonanza right now.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Roller cam for Lycomings
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 9/22/04 6:34:32 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com
> writes:
>
>
>> The roller cam does look interesting, but I doubt that Lycoming will
>> change
>> the HP rating of the engine much (maybe not at all) because of it.=A0
>>
>
> Yea, I wish I had known you were going to be there. As far as Lycoming
> changing the horsepower rating, who cares? Now specialty cam shops can
> make a
> cam for those who'd use it.
>
> I watched the Lancair and Thunder Mustang race from the pits. Close, so
> close. With comperable horsepower, the airframes must be close in drag
> also.
> This would be a good opportunity to fine tune the mustang airframe on a
> smaller scale and look for drag reduction.
>
> As for horsepower, Sean Tucker is getting over 400 hp on his IO540 without
> a
> turbo.
>
> I'm sorry I didn't get to see Nemesis fly. I only went into the pits on
> Sunday and by then, John Sharp was already gone.
>
> I really want to build a Legacy. Lots of bucks though.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings |
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> Superior has a roller lifter available NOW for experimentals. I expect the
> Lycoming part will come out as an experimental. Kind of like their IO390
> engine. They like to have the experimentalist perform their field
> testing....
The rep told me that would be the case.
Wouldn't you do the same thing? Less risk and liability that way.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings
> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
> Superior has a roller lifter available NOW for experimentals. I expect the
> Lycoming part will come out as an experimental. Kind of like their IO390
> engine. They like to have the experimentalist perform their field
> testing....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TeamGrumman@AOL.COM>
> To: <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: Roller cam for Lycomings
>
>
>> --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 9/22/04 2:19:37 AM, mark.t.mueller@comcast.net writes:
>>
>>
>> > I heard about this coming at OSH. Any idea on availability timeframes?
>> >
>> > My motor is at 1920 SMOH...
>> >
>>
>> The guy at the desk said by January 05
>>
>>
>
>
>
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