---------------------------------------------------------- TeamGrumman-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/15/04: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:32 AM - List Fund Raiser - New Gift Addition! (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:55 AM - Re: Traveler Airbox (flyv35b) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: Traveler Airbox (linn walters) 4. 06:37 AM - Re: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/13/04 (Nichols, James D) 5. 09:16 AM - Re: Traveler Airbox (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) 6. 09:17 AM - Re: Traveler Airbox (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) 7. 06:51 PM - Re: Traveler Airbox (Gil Alexander) 8. 10:26 PM - Re: Traveler Airbox (TeamGrumman@AOL.COM) 9. 10:39 PM - Carburetor Fuel Leak (Steven Jackson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:20 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: TeamGrumman-List: List Fund Raiser - New Gift Addition! --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises (www.kitlog.com) has generously contributed free registered copies of his great Windows kit logging software called Kitlog Pro to support this year's List Fund Raiser! Beginning on November 13, anyone making a List Contribution of $50 or more will qualify to receive the Windows web site download distribution of Kitlog Pro along with an official registration number via email on December 5th. The offer will continue through the end of the Fund Raiser. I want to thank Andy Gold (www.buildersbooks.com) and Paul Besing for their generous contributions in support of the Matronics Email Lists this year! Won't you take a minute and support these Lists as well? It is exclusively your contributions that enable the continue operation and upgrade of these Lists. The SSL Secure web site for making your Contribution can be found here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive _-===================================================================== _-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- _-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) _-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the _-= Contribution link below to find out more about this _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com! _-_-= List Contribution Web Site _-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-_-= Thank you for your generous support! _-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _-_-===================================================================== _-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions _-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other _-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _-===================================================================== _-= List Related Information _-= Post Message: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com _-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm _-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list _-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list _-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat _-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/teamgrumman-list _-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report _-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-===================================================================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:18 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" Yes, the flanged Oilite bushings would probably work if they were altered on a lathe to fit. The problem becomes one of retaining the bushing solidly to the airbox so that it can't rotate and thereby force all the rotation to be at the bushing/shaft interface. This is the problem with some of the original bushings that I have seen. The bushing works in the airbox and elongates the airbox hole at the bushing OD. And all the off-the-shelf Oilite bushings I have seen have a very small flange and are usually designed to be pressed into a bore of some length other than thin sheet metal, so retention would be a problem. I have seen a aluminum flanged busing with a selfaligning bearing installed that was riveted on to the airbox that looked like a pretty good solution. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Alexander" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox > --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander > > > Cliff..... > > Like these.... > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/flangedbushings.php > > Smaller size ones for models are here. The ID can be reamed if needed... > This might be closer for the air box shaft diameter... > The lubrication is permanently impregnated in the material (phosphor > bronze?) > > http://www.professormotor.com/cat_124.shtml > > ....gil in Tucson > > > At 12:16 PM 11/14/2004, you wrote: >>--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com >> >> >>In a message dated 11/14/04 6:00:43 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com >>writes: >> >> >> > Oilite bushing and modify it >> > >> >>what are these? >> >> >>_-===================================================================== >>_->_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- >>_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) >>_->_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the >>_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this >>_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the >>_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com! >>_->_-= List Contribution Web Site >>_->_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>_->_-= Thank you for your generous support! >>_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>_->_-===================================================================== >>_-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - >>_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions >>_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other >>_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. >>_-===================================================================== >>_-= List Related Information >>_-= Post Message: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com >>_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription >>_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm >>_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search >>_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list >>_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list >>_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat >>_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives >>_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >>_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/teamgrumman-list >>_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >>_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report >>_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>_-===================================================================== > > > _-===================================================================== > _-> _-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- > _-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > _-> _-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the > _-= Contribution link below to find out more about this > _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the > _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com! > _-> _-= List Contribution Web Site > _-> _-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution > _-> _-= Thank you for your generous support! > _-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > _-> _-===================================================================== > _-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - > _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions > _-= of List members. 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Click on the _-= Contribution link below to find out more about this _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com! _-_-= List Contribution Web Site _-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-_-= Thank you for your generous support! _-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _-_-===================================================================== _-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions _-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other _-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _-===================================================================== _-= List Related Information _-= Post Message: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com _-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm _-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list _-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list _-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat _-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/teamgrumman-list _-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report _-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-===================================================================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:36 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: linn walters flyv35b wrote: >--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" > >Yes, the flanged Oilite bushings would probably work if they were altered on >a lathe to fit. The problem becomes one of retaining the bushing solidly to >the airbox so that it can't rotate and thereby force all the rotation to be >at the bushing/shaft interface. This is the problem with some of the >original bushings that I have seen. The bushing works in the airbox and >elongates the airbox hole at the bushing OD. And all the off-the-shelf >Oilite bushings I have seen have a very small flange and are usually >designed to be pressed into a bore of some length other than thin sheet >metal, so retention would be a problem. > >I have seen a aluminum flanged busing with a selfaligning bearing installed >that was riveted on to the airbox that looked like a pretty good solution. > >Cliff > Maybe some JB Weld would work here since the oilite bushing isn't really 'oily'??? Just clean the bushing and aluminum real good with mek. Linn do not archive _-===================================================================== _-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- _-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) _-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the _-= Contribution link below to find out more about this _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com! _-_-= List Contribution Web Site _-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-_-= Thank you for your generous support! _-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _-_-===================================================================== _-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions _-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other _-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _-===================================================================== _-= List Related Information _-= Post Message: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com _-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm _-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list _-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list _-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat _-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/teamgrumman-list _-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report _-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-===================================================================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:15 AM PST US From: "Nichols, James D" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 11/13/04 --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Nichols, James D" Time: 07:49:39 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: RE: TeamGrumman-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 11/11/04 --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "flyv35b" --> James I have been having a bit of a idle mixture problem on a MA-4SPA carb on a customers Cheetah that I maintain. The problem is I can't seem to get the idle mixture setting rich enough no matter what I do with the idle mixture screw. The carb was rebuilt by Kelly a few years ago after there was an induction system fire. A year ago I removed the carb, readjusted the float level slightly and had new throttle shaft bushings installed as they were a bit loose. This didn't seem to make any difference and I still cannot get ANY rpm rise with the mixture screw backed out 3 turns or so! It also idle a bit rough or ragged at 700-800 rpm. Above that it is pretty smooth. This year I noticed a slight leakage at a couple of the induction tube gaskets so I replace all 4 of them. Still not able to get the mixture rich enough. The carb has the single piece venturi but I don't recall if it has the newer improve atomizer nozzle. Do you have any suggestions or reasons for the problem? Cliff A&P/IA Cascade Country Aviation Independence, OR Cliff, This is a good one; the usual complaint is that the mixture is too rich. Depending on the mixture needle design, it may require more than three turns out to be effective, however not more than four, as you will loose the tension on the spring and the valve will "self adjust" with engine operation (and drive you crazy). There are a couple of items that come to mind, one is the induction fire, if it was hot enough, it is possible to cause one or more of the swedged joints at the air box to fail and leak, a quick check for this is to use the "blower" side of a vacuum cleaner inserted into the air box, filter removed, and rags used to seal the inlet, apply leak check (soapy water mix) to all the flanges and if there is an induction leak, you will readily see it, an induction leak needs to be eliminated prior to Carb work. OK lets look at the Carb, First do you have the overhaul manual? If you don't, contact me and I will fax you the required sheets. You may have looked at some of these already; First lets eliminate some players, properly installed Single piece Venturi will not play at idle as the butterfly valve is near closed, this can play above idle but it is rare and usually an indicator of another problem. The improved Nozzle design will also not play at idle for the same reason as the Venturi; (however this is a much improved design and should be installed at the first opportunity). Here is what I would do; check the float level again, ensure it is at 7/32" at the aft end of the floats (both) with the gasket installed (I use a drill bit), a low float level is the no.1 cause of lean operation including idle, next remove the Nozzle assy., clean the passages and replace the two gaskets 16-222 and 16-A107, (if gasket 16-A107 is not installed correctly this can affect the idle circuit)be sure you put a good lubricant like STP or assembly lube on the lower gasket and TORQUE the nozzle back into place. Next, remove the idle tube P/N 229-587 and check for foreign material or damage to the tip, this is another Kelly PMA part that can be troublesome and can affect the idle richness, compare it to a OEM part if you have one, if there is a difference or damage replace it (IMPORTANT: do not over torque this going back in). You can also look at the mixture screw for damage to the taper, however this usually manifests it self as a rich idle condition. Reassemble using a NEW body to bowl gasket 16-B75. Hope this helps, if you need an oddball part let me know, I may have a serviceable one here. JD. Nichols AP Black Diamond Aviation Williamson, Ga. _-===================================================================== _-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- _-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) _-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the _-= Contribution link below to find out more about this _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com! _-_-= List Contribution Web Site _-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-_-= Thank you for your generous support! _-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _-_-===================================================================== _-= - The TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions _-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other _-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. _-===================================================================== _-= List Related Information _-= Post Message: teamgrumman-list@matronics.com _-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription _-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/TeamGrumman-List.htm _-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search _-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/teamgrumman-list _-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/teamgrumman-list _-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat _-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives _-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare _-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/teamgrumman-list _-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists _-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report _-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-===================================================================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:05 AM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com In a message dated 11/14/04 11:29:50 PM, gilalex@earthlink.net writes: > Could you make an 1/8 small plate to give something for the bushing to > press into? > >=A0 gil A=A0=A0 ...who, with a Tiger, doesn't know what a Cheetah air box > looks like.. > I could make a doubler. The wall thickness isn't very much as is. One problem with a doubler is clearance for the linkage. It's a Traveler airbox, and it's a lot simpler than the Cheetah. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:51 AM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com In a message dated 11/15/04 5:57:42 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes: > I have seen a aluminum flanged busing with a selfaligning bearing installed > that was riveted on to the airbox that looked like a pretty good solution. > > I saw something like this on a Cessna airbox. I need to find my Aircraft Spruce Catalog (someone borrowed it and I didn't ask for their drivers license as collateral) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:17 PM PST US From: Gil Alexander Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gil Alexander Well - at least a replacement is free.....: ) At 10:17 AM 11/15/2004, you wrote: >--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com > > >In a message dated 11/15/04 5:57:42 AM, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes: > > > > I have seen a aluminum flanged busing with a selfaligning bearing installed > > that was riveted on to the airbox that looked like a pretty good solution. > > > > > >I saw something like this on a Cessna airbox. I need to find my Aircraft >Spruce Catalog (someone borrowed it and I didn't ask for their drivers >license >as collateral) > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:12 PM PST US From: TeamGrumman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Traveler Airbox --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com In a message dated 11/15/04 6:53:39 PM, gilalex@earthlink.net writes: > Well - at least a replacement is free.....: > True, but I have to wait for it to arrive in the mail........ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:19 PM PST US From: "Steven Jackson" Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Carburetor Fuel Leak --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Steven Jackson" TG, Talked to Tim at Kelly. He seemed to think that the float probably got misaligned during shipping. He said that it happens a lot. That sounds a little fishy to me--I would think that if it was a known problem, I would figure out a different way to package the product. Anyway... Additionally, he said that my 6-8 psi that I'm reading on the fuel pressure gauge may be contributing to the problem. He said they test the carbs at 3.5 psi. He said my fuel pressure seemed a lot higher than what he thought it should be. Regardless, the carb is coming off, and being returned so he can inspect it. Steven Jackson N1434R L22 Yucca Valley, CA